The Nation's Financial Condition

[tech37]

So basically what a fan is saying is, the theft of our IP and innovations is okie dokie by him, or dead Americans due to Chinese fentanyl flooding our shores is just swell. Just look the other way cause we can't rock the status quo trade boat!...despite China's despicable acts. Not to mention their expanding military exploits. I want to puke...

So make up a strawman position, then tell me you this made up position makes you want to puke. Nice job. You forgot to tell everyone that I think America should start kicking puppies on a much more regular basis. Oh, and knock over old ladies in the street, and steal their medication.

Normally I wouldn't post like this but thought I'd give you some of your own medicine. That one's for you a fan.

Some of us see this as a war worth fighting, not only because it's the right thing to do, but for the future wellness of ours and the world economy in the name of national security.

Great.

Sarcasm?

Hate to tell you this Mr. Instant Gratification, but this isn't over yet, even though you conceded the day it started

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/ ... -one-looks

Dude. Did you bother reading the date on that Tom Holland piece? May 2019. You're using THIS as a citation to tell me I'm wrong? Did you even read the piece? Jeezus H, this is the dumbest thing you've ever cited.

Thank you a fan. I posted it because the article is an interesting perspective despite the date. And honestly a fan, I couldn't care less if you're right or wrong about anything. I do realize though how important it is for you to opine on all things on a lax board.

----------------

What I'm objecting to is that real Americans, real people, are losing their jobs and family businesses because as usual, Trump didn't plan this out. He tweeted, and left everyone else to pick up the pieces. Do we need China to trade with? No. We don't. But the lack of preparedness and lack of US allies helping to apply pressure and reduce China's options is causing wholly unnecessary damage.

Fine. What seems to be lost on you and others is that China is finally being stood up to. That is the bottom line beneath the customary Trump bashing and second guessing by armchair economists and philosophers.

Allies? You mean the feckless allies who have little economic power regarding standing up to China to begin with? Speaking of allies...
I view them just like I view moderate voters here in US. They like what the Trump Admin is doing but would never admit it. IMHO.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So basically what a fan is saying is, the theft of our IP and innovations is okie dokie by him, or dead Americans due to Chinese fentanyl flooding our shores is just swell. Just look the other way cause we can't rock the status quo trade boat!...despite China's despicable acts. Not to mention their expanding military exploits. I want to puke...

So make up a strawman position, then tell me you this made up position makes you want to puke. Nice job. You forgot to tell everyone that I think America should start kicking puppies on a much more regular basis. Oh, and knock over old ladies in the street, and steal their medication.

Normally I wouldn't post like this but thought I'd give you some of your own medicine. That one's for you a fan.

Some of us see this as a war worth fighting, not only because it's the right thing to do, but for the future wellness of ours and the world economy in the name of national security.

Great.

Sarcasm?

Hate to tell you this Mr. Instant Gratification, but this isn't over yet, even though you conceded the day it started

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/ ... -one-looks

Dude. Did you bother reading the date on that Tom Holland piece? May 2019. You're using THIS as a citation to tell me I'm wrong? Did you even read the piece? Jeezus H, this is the dumbest thing you've ever cited.

Thank you a fan. I posted it because the article is an interesting perspective despite the date. And honestly a fan, I couldn't care less if you're right or wrong about anything. I do realize though how important it is for you to opine on all things on a lax board.

----------------

What I'm objecting to is that real Americans, real people, are losing their jobs and family businesses because as usual, Trump didn't plan this out. He tweeted, and left everyone else to pick up the pieces. Do we need China to trade with? No. We don't. But the lack of preparedness and lack of US allies helping to apply pressure and reduce China's options is causing wholly unnecessary damage.

Fine. What seems to be lost on you and others is that China is finally being stood up to. That is the bottom line beneath the customary Trump bashing and second guessing by armchair economists and philosophers.

Allies? You mean the feckless allies who have little economic power regarding standing up to China to begin with? Speaking of allies...
I view them just like I view moderate voters here in US. They like what the Trump Admin is doing but would never admit it. IMHO.

In your opinion, what are the 5 things Trump has done that moderates like and why?

[ABV 8.3%]

I don't like these types of questions. Can't stand Trump, but these questions to list 5 things are moving targets-goals.

Why?

1. Credit will go to others
2. Had little to minimal effect.
3. Did I mention credit will go to others?


Promise you won't do these things ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don't like these types of questions. Can't stand Trump, but these questions to list 5 things are moving targets-goals.

Why?

1. Credit will go to others
2. Had little to minimal effect.
3. Did I mention credit will go to others?


Promise you won't do these things ?

Thanks. It’s a straight forward question, double IPA.

[ABV 8.3%]

I don't like these types of questions. Can't stand Trump, but these questions to list 5 things are moving targets-goals.

Why?

1. Credit will go to others
2. Had little to minimal effect.
3. Did I mention credit will go to others?


Promise you won't do these things ?

Thanks. It’s a straight forward question, double IPA.

So you promise than? And, now I know why you don't like me, should change my name to Pilsner Dowboy

[Typical Lax Dad]

I don't like these types of questions. Can't stand Trump, but these questions to list 5 things are moving targets-goals.

Why?

1. Credit will go to others
2. Had little to minimal effect.
3. Did I mention credit will go to others?


Promise you won't do these things ?

Thanks. It’s a straight forward question, double IPA.

So you promise than? And, now I know why you don't like me, should change my name to Pilsner Dowboy

I would rather read your post than drink a DIPA. Some aren’t bad, but not my cup of tea. I will list what I have had. I promise not to make those counter arguments if you promise that they are not true.

[ABV 8.3%]

Well, I think you need to head on over to the TAATS thread on this topic. Trump is the perfect distraction from the congress spending spree. The sad, and scary part is Trump thinks it's funny to start food fights......only real ones are happening. Bike locks splitting heads open. If only Hillary had won

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, I think you need to head on over to the TAATS thread on this topic. Trump is the perfect distraction from the congress spending spree. The sad, and scary part is Trump thinks it's funny to start food fights......only real ones are happening. Bike locks splitting heads open. If only Hillary had won

Spending like drunken sailors.

[a fan]

t.
Sarcasm?

No. Think of our long ago discussion on Obama leaving Iraq. I came to you with "I think that we need to get our people out of that dangerous country".

What did you (and old salt, for that matter) come back with (total paraphrase, obviously)? "That's great, but timing matters...and we can't leave right now. We need things to be more stable before we can leave".

Right? Because timing matters. And execution of a plan matters.

So I think it's great that you think we should stand up to China. But timing matters. And execution matters. And imho, the reason you don't see this is that you haven't been laid off, and you haven't had prices go way up on things you HAVE to buy. Two farmers that I bought grains from, but did not know personally, are gone. Global grain markets are in total chaos right now.

So the reason I mocked Holland is that he didn't even CONSIDER that China could simply stop buying things from the US. If China's move doesn't worry you, you're a fool. You can't genie Chinese computer components or buyers and sellers of grain on the spot. It takes time. And this means people getting laid off and folks going out of business around the globe.

So when you make fun of me and call me Mr. Instant Gratification, all that tells me is that you're sitting in your castle, sucking on quail bones (metaphor, obviously), and don't care that Trump's whimsies are costing some of your fellow Americans their farms and businesses.

I don't care about being right. There's a wonderful array of people posting here that work in all kinds of business sectors, and their perspectives fascinate me. I'm hoping that you're smart enough to listen to someone who's at the nexus of the Trade War. Americans are suffering. If you don't care about that, Ignore my posts, and double down on your blind support of Trump's policies.

Fine. What seems to be lost on you and others is that China is finally being stood up to.

The small hands overcompensating response of the American male Republican. "Act tough, and that fixes everything".

You're smarter than that. I'm ok with standing up to China. I told you---several times now---the way to do that, and the way that full grown adults at the big boy table would do what you are asking. You don't want to hear it, so you keep saying I don't want to stand up to China.

Allies? You mean the feckless allies who have little economic power regarding standing up to China to begin with? Speaking of allies...
I view them just like I view moderate voters here in US. They like what the Trump Admin is doing but would never admit it. IMHO.

Ok. So we go it alone, and Trump is hitting a home run here. Enjoy the ride ahead, and all the unexpected moves by China, and all the unexpected consequences to this path you think we should follow without question....

And a tip of the hat to your promise that we won't get into a real war with China. Nice to hear. Does that promise extend to a Cold War, too?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, I think you need to head on over to the TAATS thread on this topic. Trump is the perfect distraction from the congress spending spree. The sad, and scary part is Trump thinks it's funny to start food fights......only real ones are happening. Bike locks splitting heads open. If only Hillary had won

Here you go..... This is probably 1/2 of what I have tried. Some are better than others..... Probably like Wrench, Doppleganger, G-Bot and Two Juicy best but not my cup of tea. I have some more in my fridge that did not make this list because I could not remember the names. Destined for the garbage can as they don't last that long really. Maybe 2 months old. I may try one tonight!

Lord Hobo – Consolation Prize
Lord Hobo Boom Sauce
Sixpoint Resin
Bad Sons Doobious
Counterweight Headway
Clown Shoes Space Cake
Lawson's Sip Of Sunshine
Lawson's Chinooker'd
Lawson's Super Session No. 8
Nod Hill Super Bunny
Tree House Green
Tree House Doppleganger
Pipeworks Ninja vs Unicorn
Pipeworks Lizard King
Collective Arts Life In The Clouds
Collective Arst IPA No. 8
Industrial Arts Power Tools
Industrial Arts Wrench
New England Brewing G-Bot
New England Fuzzy Baby Ducks
Armada Savage Queen
Armada Mermaid Cove
Two Roads Two Juicy
Kent Falls Awkward Hug
Beer’d Brewing On Thing Led to Another
Pipeworks Velocity of Light

[old salt]

And a tip of the hat to your promise that we won't get into a real war with China. Nice to hear. Does that promise extend to a Cold War, too?

When do you see a better time to draw the line with China & stand our ground ?

The Cold War was long & costly, but worth it in the end.
This does not have to be a long protracted dispute.
It's sooo different from 1945, in too many ways to elaborate.

[ABV 8.3%]

Well, I think you need to head on over to the TAATS thread on this topic. Trump is the perfect distraction from the congress spending spree. The sad, and scary part is Trump thinks it's funny to start food fights......only real ones are happening. Bike locks splitting heads open. If only Hillary had won

Here you go..... This is probably 1/2 of what I have tried. Some are better than others..... Probably like Wrench, Doppleganger, G-Bot and Two Juicy best but not my cup of tea. I have some more in my fridge that did not make this list because I could not remember the names. Destined for the garbage can as they don't last that long really. Maybe 2 months old. I may try one tonight!

There is a thread for this on the other side of the moon.

btw, what makes you think it stands for an IPA. It does, but NOT what you think. (much prefer Bocks- stouts, porters. )

[a fan]

And a tip of the hat to your promise that we won't get into a real war with China. Nice to hear. Does that promise extend to a Cold War, too?

When do you see a better time to draw the line with China & stand our ground ?

Trump could have started the process the week he arrived in DC. I would have had no problem with that. You and tech----and I don't know why----keep glossing over the fact that I don't have a problem with the "what". Where I take issue is the "how".

So once again, the "how", generally speaking:

1. Line up all our allies. EU, NATO, PacRim. All of them. Get together and discuss how to hold China accountable for IP theft, etc.

2. While you're getting your allies together, you take that $30 Billion that Trump piddled away on farmers with no thought, and instead cut checks to the Commerce Dept, the Dept. of Ag, and other Departments....and take every US Trade Group out to new countries to establish new markets for US goods that would be hammered if we got into a Trade War with China.

These trips work. It's how, for example, we secured a few million in exports in the UK and EU....the Dept. of Ag funded sales junkets to London and Paris. The US officials helped facilitate meetings with willing buyers...and boom, we secured sale agreements.

Now if China cuts us off, our farmers and other sectors aren't caught with their pants down and have a head start on selling goods elsewhere.

3. Now you gather US officials, and go through "what if" scenarios. For example, even if we play our hand perfectly (whatever that might mean), China could elect to just shut down and start a Cold War. What do we do if that happens?

4. Now you're ready to start negotiating with China. We have to do all these things to protect US interests, and minimize the economic damage that is likely to follow.

What Trump did, instead, was tweet. I don't think I need to point out the raw stupidity of the "how" of Trump's trade war.

[a fan]

This does not have to be a long protracted dispute.
It's sooo different from 1945, in too many ways to elaborate.

Agree. But this doesn't mean the paths both parties take is MORE predictable. It means events are LESS predictable, and there's no telling what China will do. And we sure as *hit can't predict what Trump will do, agreed?

Of course it doesn't HAVE to be a protracted dispute, but you are intentionally ignoring red flags.

We both know that all China has to do is offer some pointless token so that Trump can declare victory to his base. It worked like a charm with NAFTA. And we both know that Chinese negotiators aren't so blind and stupid that they don't know a token will end the war.

So when they pull the Godfather II, "my offer is nothing"-----if that doesn't make you go "uh-oh", I think you are making a big, big mistake.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well, I think you need to head on over to the TAATS thread on this topic. Trump is the perfect distraction from the congress spending spree. The sad, and scary part is Trump thinks it's funny to start food fights......only real ones are happening. Bike locks splitting heads open. If only Hillary had won

Here you go..... This is probably 1/2 of what I have tried. Some are better than others..... Probably like Wrench, Doppleganger, G-Bot and Two Juicy best but not my cup of tea. I have some more in my fridge that did not make this list because I could not remember the names. Destined for the garbage can as they don't last that long really. Maybe 2 months old. I may try one tonight!

There is a thread for this on the other side of the moon.

btw, what makes you think it stands for an IPA. It does, but NOT what you think. (much prefer Bocks- stouts, porters. )

It was just a guess. Anyway, there is a double weiss bock that is lights out. I do like that....

[old salt]

And a tip of the hat to your promise that we won't get into a real war with China. Nice to hear. Does that promise extend to a Cold War, too?

When do you see a better time to draw the line with China & stand our ground ?

Trump could have started the process the week he arrived in DC. I would have had no problem with that. You and tech----and I don't know why----keep glossing over the fact that I don't have a problem with the "what". Where I take issue is the "how".

So once again, the "how", generally speaking:

1. Line up all our allies. EU, NATO, PacRim. All of them. Get together and discuss how to hold China accountable for IP theft, etc.

2. While you're getting your allies together, you take that $30 Billion that Trump piddled away on farmers with no thought, and instead cut checks to the Commerce Dept, the Dept. of Ag, and other Departments....and take every US Trade Group out to new countries to establish new markets for US goods that would be hammered if we got into a Trade War with China.

These trips work. It's how, for example, we secured a few million in exports in the UK and EU....the Dept. of Ag funded sales junkets to London and Paris. The US officials helped facilitate meetings with willing buyers...and boom, we secured sale agreements.

Now if China cuts us off, our farmers and other sectors aren't caught with their pants down and have a head start on selling goods elsewhere.

3. Now you gather US officials, and go through "what if" scenarios. For example, even if we play our hand perfectly (whatever that might mean), China could elect to just shut down and start a Cold War. What do we do if that happens?

4. Now you're ready to start negotiating with China. We have to do all these things to protect US interests, and minimize the economic damage that is likely to follow.

What Trump did, instead, was tweet. I don't think I need to point out the raw stupidity of the "how" of Trump's trade war.

When it comes to trade issues, it's like herding cats -- there are no allies.
Look at how hard just narrow targeted trade sanctions are.

This is the result of months of negotiations, preceded by months of warnings.
Both parties are aware that Trump likely only had 4 years to work with.
Needed to nail down NAFTA ==> USMCA first.

You forgot to recommend a study group first.

[a fan]

When it comes to trade issues, it's like herding cats -- there are no allies.

Disagree. We have the EU, NAFTA, and most importantly, the WTO. What's the point of having these organizations and/or agreements?

Look at how hard just narrow targeted trade sanctions are.

The one's literally launched from a cellphone? They're clearly as easy as can be.....

[old salt]

When it comes to trade issues, it's like herding cats -- there are no allies.

Disagree. We have the EU, NAFTA, and most importantly, the WTO. What's the point of having these organizations and/or agreements?

Look at how hard just narrow targeted trade sanctions are.

The one's literally launched from a cellphone? They're clearly as easy as can be.....

The EU is a protectionist cartel.

[a fan]

Yes. They herded the cats, no? So you're incorrect that there are no allies when it comes to trade issues.

[old salt]

When it comes to trade, the EU are not our allies.
They are our NATO military allies.