Recruiting

[LaxDadMax]

This should start picking up now. Winkler to UNC

I would anticipate Sunday and Monday of next week being huge commitment days. Lots of girls taking 2nd visit this week and I assume lots of decisions after this weekend, especially for goalies who are generally given less time to mull over offers.

[Womenslaxxfan]

This should start picking up now. Winkler to UNC

yep the dam has broken. Magday from McDonogh to UNC as well. Another Maryland Kid

I know there’s this historical lacrosse mystique about Maryland and deservedly so. But is it really a shocker that Maryland girls would want to go to unc over Maryland? Chapel hill is a pretty sweet college town, in my opinion nicer than college park. Unc academics and alumni network is superior. And lax team is now a tad better.
Oh, and it’s only a 4-5 hour drive….
I see the “dam breaking” for good….
Maryland will still get more than its fair share of MD players because of the lacrosse tradition. But I see an increasing share of top Maryland girls choosing to go elsewhere.

[CnyLax]

This should start picking up now. Winkler to UNC

I would anticipate Sunday and Monday of next week being huge commitment days. Lots of girls taking 2nd visit this week and I assume lots of decisions after this weekend, especially for goalies who are generally given less time to mull over offers.

Couple goalies coming off the board already..Florida & Clemson got one the past 2 days

[Kleizaster]

This should start picking up now. Winkler to UNC

yep the dam has broken. Magday from McDonogh to UNC as well. Another Maryland Kid

I know there’s this historical lacrosse mystique about Maryland and deservedly so. But is it really a shocker that Maryland girls would want to go to unc over Maryland? Chapel hill is a pretty sweet college town, in my opinion nicer than college park. Unc academics and alumni network is superior. And lax team is now a tad better.
Oh, and it’s only a 4-5 hour drive….
I see the “dam breaking” for good….
Maryland will still get more than its fair share of MD players because of the lacrosse tradition. But I see an increasing share of top Maryland girls choosing to go elsewhere.

It's not a shocker anymore per se because UNC as a program has surpassed Maryland. Every coach, director, recruit will tell you it's the number 1 school of choice for most recruits now. But these MD/DMV kids were the kids that were absolute LOCKS to go to Maryland back in the day. Which is one of the main reasons they were so dominant. Built a wall around the talent rich state and if you were a top recruit out of Maryland you simply went to Maryland. With the growth of the game, you're right, there are alot of good viable options elsewhere. Even with that said, Maryland is losing the recruiting battle for top kids to rival programs. We all have seen the consequences of that on the field. I was hoping they would have a stellar 2025 class but they are off to a very slow start once again for a program in desperate need of elite talent. I said this cycle would be very important for CUSE and MD. CUSE went and got 2 top 25 kids out of the gate. Wasted no time. MD got one commit from an OK player. This tells me they are 3rd or 4th on alot of the top lists. IMO landing Penczek is now a must or this cycle will be an abject failure and MD will need to start sounding the alarm as a program

[TNLAX]

M&D goalie to Clemson. Gonna be a busy three days. For those saying they could have egg in their face. That’s 1 they brought in already. 3-4 more coming in he next few days. Clemson gonna be a perennial top10 program very shortly. Everyone wants to go there.

“Everyone wants to go there”. Really? That may be a little bit of an over statement. Some girls may want to go there but it isn’t a perfect fit for “everyone”. The hype is a little overstated at times.

I obviously didn’t mean all 7600 girls who play. Change the statement to a large majority of the top girls. Kinda like everyone wants to go to UNC and Maryland, etc.

I disagree with your assessment. Clemson is a fine school. It’s comparable to vatech in terms of academic reputation and alumni network, and it is similarly isolated in terms of its campus. It’s not Florida, it’s not UNC, it’s not UVA and it’s not Duke. It’s not Maryland bc it’s not a drive from a major hotbed area. The reason why Clemson has become a “hot” college in general comes down to its football success under dabo.
They may have some pixie dust as a new program right now, but sustained excellence requires more than that. The jury is WAAAY out on whether they get there. And if football team falters for 2 or 3 years, lax team will lose mojo as well….

I’m glad they picked up women’s lax and am glad they are using their initial buzz to be competitive. But let’s wait a few years before we anoint them as top 10 destination of choice for top 200 players…

The thing about Clemson right now is they have the best of both worlds. They can sell being a part of something new and building a program while playing in the toughest conference in the country to both high school recruits as well as transfers. With the success of the football program it's already well known and I'm sure has a great gameday atmosphere for official visits.
The unknown right now is the program's ceiling. In women's lacrosse for the past five years or so you've had five teams in a given year who are legit national title contenders. It's very hard to break through into that tier. BC has busted through. Florida, which a decade ago was the hot new program has not and has settled into that second tier of top 10 team but not FF good. So which direction does Clemson go? They have a blueprint with their softball program that has already reached two Super Regionals in just four seasons as a Division I program. But if they get to a point where they can't seem to crash into the title contender conversation, then coaches can start to use that against them in recruiting. In any case, it's a storyline to follow going forward.

Being a well funded ACC program will enable Clemson to get some top recruits.

The excitement of being a new program (and the extra scholarship $$ available) will help this class and maybe the next one get some great kids. However, once you have 4 years of recruited kids in the program, then the rubber hits the road.

I think Clemson will be a perennial top 20-25 program but breaking through in the ACC will be tough. Everyone has great players and at least half of the schools (if not more) have far superior academics in most majors. That means, there are lots of really smart kids from Maryland and DC private schools who may never give you a look.

This season will be critical for Clemson. If they don't make the NCAA tourney, then lots of these recruiting gains could go away pretty quickly.

Please help me understand "the extra scholarship $$ available". Do they have more scholarship money to offer than any other fully funded D1 program that has 12 scholarships to provide their student athletes? Do they have more merit money to offer than Duke or UNC? Are there any articles that have Clemson officials being quoted saying "they have extra scholarship money"? Just asking.

All programs have the same cap on recruiting scholarships.

However, when you have a program without 4 full classes, this means each class can get more $$. Grad transfers impact this a bit, but 80% of grad transfers aren't getting any $$.

For instance, let's say a typical school spreads out its scholarship $$ across all classes, that is about 2.9-3.0 per class.

However for Clemson, in 3 years, they will only have 3 homegrown classes (23,24,25), this means they can average 4 scholarships per class and effectively get more $$. I guarantee if Clemson gets all of those girls they promoted on their visit, they would be spending more than 3.0 FTE scholarships. Eventually some girls will need to have their scholarship reduced in back years as more recruiting classes come in.

This is pretty common in new programs, where scholarships are front loaded the first couple years. I know a couple of the initial commits to the new program at URI got about 75% for their first year, but they were told it would go down to 50% their second year and between 25-40% their 3rd and 4th years.

Ok, thanks for response. But I don't think it is this simple. Some players may be able to get more money from need based financial aid. Some girls may get a lot of merit money and very little athletic money. Some girls will get athletic money.

Some coaches do a real good job working with families and their schools financial aid departments, other coaches don't. I just don't see Clemson having an advantage over the other public universities in the ACC when it comes to money for the womens lacrosse program, but I am not an insider. For that matter they may be at a disadvantage being a public school rather than a private institution like Duke, Notre Dame or BC.

The rules have changed so much the past few years about college players and payments outside of the athletic scholarship money. I can't keep up. But I do know some of the private schools provide monthly stipend's that are fairly significant to the players on their teams. Monthly deposits into debit card accounts the girls use for every day transactions.

Would love to know those schools. If the money is above and beyond the schools scholarship limit that would still be illegal. If it is NIL money it has to be from an outside source. Now that source can put it directly into a players account. If it is NIL money I hope someone is telling these kids that more likely than not they are going to be looked at as independent contractors and may have to pay taxes on this money.

Agree that this seems outside of NCAA rules. My daughter did have an athletic dept issued debit card that was intended to be used for groceries as part of her "meal plan" ... maybe this is what is being referred to?

Guys, I was referring to the "cost of living stipend" that the NCAA allows, put into place in 2016 I think. So on top of athletic scholarship money a division 1 school is allowed to provide a stipend each year to the scholarship athletes. The NCAA does not put a cap on the amount that is paid, it only requires that all scholarship athletes at that university receive the same amount. ie: the football player and the lacrosse player get the same stipend.

Take Vanderbilt for example, they pay their student athletes a stipend, under NCAA guidelines, but Vanderbilt doesn't have a lot of student athletes compared to other SEC schools and the SEC has a revenue sharing program. So Vanderbilt Athletic department has a fairly substantial budget compared to the number of scholarship student athletes they have. Vanderbilt also doesn't have the public oversight a state university may have.

I don't know what the amount of the stipend is these days, but when my daughter was there I thought it was a good number for a college kid to receive. Even with these extra funds, Vanderbilt, a wonderful school by most accounts, still doesn't field a top 20 lacrosse program.

[Laxdad126]

Just reading information on NIL money.... if a student gets NIL money do they report it has income on tax return?

[TNLAX]

Just reading information on NIL money.... if a student gets NIL money do they report it has income on tax return?

yes,

https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/ge ... neral/nil/

[watcherinthewoods]

M&D goalie to Clemson. Gonna be a busy three days. For those saying they could have egg in their face. That’s 1 they brought in already. 3-4 more coming in he next few days. Clemson gonna be a perennial top10 program very shortly. Everyone wants to go there.

“Everyone wants to go there”. Really? That may be a little bit of an over statement. Some girls may want to go there but it isn’t a perfect fit for “everyone”. The hype is a little overstated at times.

I obviously didn’t mean all 7600 girls who play. Change the statement to a large majority of the top girls. Kinda like everyone wants to go to UNC and Maryland, etc.

I disagree with your assessment. Clemson is a fine school. It’s comparable to vatech in terms of academic reputation and alumni network, and it is similarly isolated in terms of its campus. It’s not Florida, it’s not UNC, it’s not UVA and it’s not Duke. It’s not Maryland bc it’s not a drive from a major hotbed area. The reason why Clemson has become a “hot” college in general comes down to its football success under dabo.
They may have some pixie dust as a new program right now, but sustained excellence requires more than that. The jury is WAAAY out on whether they get there. And if football team falters for 2 or 3 years, lax team will lose mojo as well….

I’m glad they picked up women’s lax and am glad they are using their initial buzz to be competitive. But let’s wait a few years before we anoint them as top 10 destination of choice for top 200 players…

The thing about Clemson right now is they have the best of both worlds. They can sell being a part of something new and building a program while playing in the toughest conference in the country to both high school recruits as well as transfers. With the success of the football program it's already well known and I'm sure has a great gameday atmosphere for official visits.
The unknown right now is the program's ceiling. In women's lacrosse for the past five years or so you've had five teams in a given year who are legit national title contenders. It's very hard to break through into that tier. BC has busted through. Florida, which a decade ago was the hot new program has not and has settled into that second tier of top 10 team but not FF good. So which direction does Clemson go? They have a blueprint with their softball program that has already reached two Super Regionals in just four seasons as a Division I program. But if they get to a point where they can't seem to crash into the title contender conversation, then coaches can start to use that against them in recruiting. In any case, it's a storyline to follow going forward.

Being a well funded ACC program will enable Clemson to get some top recruits.

The excitement of being a new program (and the extra scholarship $$ available) will help this class and maybe the next one get some great kids. However, once you have 4 years of recruited kids in the program, then the rubber hits the road.

I think Clemson will be a perennial top 20-25 program but breaking through in the ACC will be tough. Everyone has great players and at least half of the schools (if not more) have far superior academics in most majors. That means, there are lots of really smart kids from Maryland and DC private schools who may never give you a look.

This season will be critical for Clemson. If they don't make the NCAA tourney, then lots of these recruiting gains could go away pretty quickly.

Please help me understand "the extra scholarship $$ available". Do they have more scholarship money to offer than any other fully funded D1 program that has 12 scholarships to provide their student athletes? Do they have more merit money to offer than Duke or UNC? Are there any articles that have Clemson officials being quoted saying "they have extra scholarship money"? Just asking.

All programs have the same cap on recruiting scholarships.

However, when you have a program without 4 full classes, this means each class can get more $$. Grad transfers impact this a bit, but 80% of grad transfers aren't getting any $$.

For instance, let's say a typical school spreads out its scholarship $$ across all classes, that is about 2.9-3.0 per class.

However for Clemson, in 3 years, they will only have 3 homegrown classes (23,24,25), this means they can average 4 scholarships per class and effectively get more $$. I guarantee if Clemson gets all of those girls they promoted on their visit, they would be spending more than 3.0 FTE scholarships. Eventually some girls will need to have their scholarship reduced in back years as more recruiting classes come in.

This is pretty common in new programs, where scholarships are front loaded the first couple years. I know a couple of the initial commits to the new program at URI got about 75% for their first year, but they were told it would go down to 50% their second year and between 25-40% their 3rd and 4th years.

Ok, thanks for response. But I don't think it is this simple. Some players may be able to get more money from need based financial aid. Some girls may get a lot of merit money and very little athletic money. Some girls will get athletic money.

Some coaches do a real good job working with families and their schools financial aid departments, other coaches don't. I just don't see Clemson having an advantage over the other public universities in the ACC when it comes to money for the womens lacrosse program, but I am not an insider. For that matter they may be at a disadvantage being a public school rather than a private institution like Duke, Notre Dame or BC.

The rules have changed so much the past few years about college players and payments outside of the athletic scholarship money. I can't keep up. But I do know some of the private schools provide monthly stipend's that are fairly significant to the players on their teams. Monthly deposits into debit card accounts the girls use for every day transactions.

Would love to know those schools. If the money is above and beyond the schools scholarship limit that would still be illegal. If it is NIL money it has to be from an outside source. Now that source can put it directly into a players account. If it is NIL money I hope someone is telling these kids that more likely than not they are going to be looked at as independent contractors and may have to pay taxes on this money.

Agree that this seems outside of NCAA rules. My daughter did have an athletic dept issued debit card that was intended to be used for groceries as part of her "meal plan" ... maybe this is what is being referred to?

Guys, I was referring to the "cost of living stipend" that the NCAA allows, put into place in 2016 I think. So on top of athletic scholarship money a division 1 school is allowed to provide a stipend each year to the scholarship athletes. The NCAA does not put a cap on the amount that is paid, it only requires that all scholarship athletes at that university receive the same amount. ie: the football player and the lacrosse player get the same stipend.

Take Vanderbilt for example, they pay their student athletes a stipend, under NCAA guidelines, but Vanderbilt doesn't have a lot of student athletes compared to other SEC schools and the SEC has a revenue sharing program. So Vanderbilt Athletic department has a fairly substantial budget compared to the number of scholarship student athletes they have. Vanderbilt also doesn't have the public oversight a state university may have.

I don't know what the amount of the stipend is these days, but when my daughter was there I thought it was a good number for a college kid to receive. Even with these extra funds, Vanderbilt, a wonderful school by most accounts, still doesn't field a top 20 lacrosse program.

Thanks for that ... learn something new every day:

The Power 5 conferences (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, SEC and Pac-12) have passed legislation guaranteeing the full cost of attendance for scholarship student-athletes. In addition to a tuition free education, student-athletes will now receive yearly stipends of $2,000 to $4,000 intended to cover cost-of-living expenses.

The measure passed with near unanimous support, 79-1, from the 65 schools and 15 student-athlete representatives, three from each conference. Boston College was the only school to vote against it, according to NCAA tabulations.

[flushlax77]

From what I understand this new stipend came from a Supreme Court Case Alston vs the NCAA in which the Court ruled that Universities could pay for other educational expenses beyond the tuition and room and board. This amount can only top out at $5,890. I know that some schools only do it for some sports, other schools don't go to the top amount that can be given out (e.g. 3,000 for each athlete). From what I understand, most lacrosse schools don't offer this money but there is a few that do.

[Bart]

From what I understand this new stipend came from a Supreme Court Case Alston vs the NCAA in which the Court ruled that Universities could pay for other educational expenses beyond the tuition and room and board. This amount can only top out at $5,890. I know that some schools only do it for some sports, other schools don't go to the top amount that can be given out (e.g. 3,000 for each athlete). From what I understand, most lacrosse schools don't offer this money but there is a few that do.

But those stipends were designated for full scholarship athletes. I would think that in a sport like lacrosse which is an equivalency sport, that stipend would be added on to the "scholarship" value to be divided up between athletes. I would not think that if lets say 5 players received 20% tuition, room and board each would receive a $3,000 stipend as well. I have not been able to locate the actual rule yet to be certain. If anyone has it I would greatly appreciate seeing it.

[Kleizaster]

Mairyn Dwyer from Agnes Irwin to UNC.

[TNLAX]

From what I understand this new stipend came from a Supreme Court Case Alston vs the NCAA in which the Court ruled that Universities could pay for other educational expenses beyond the tuition and room and board. This amount can only top out at $5,890. I know that some schools only do it for some sports, other schools don't go to the top amount that can be given out (e.g. 3,000 for each athlete). From what I understand, most lacrosse schools don't offer this money but there is a few that do.

But those stipends were designated for full scholarship athletes. I would think that in a sport like lacrosse which is an equivalency sport, that stipend would be added on to the "scholarship" value to be divided up between athletes. I would not think that if lets say 5 players received 20% tuition, room and board each would receive a $3,000 stipend as well. I have not been able to locate the actual rule yet to be certain. If anyone has it I would greatly appreciate seeing it.

I can only speak from my experiences with stipends at Vanderbilt that my daughter received. Everyone on the lacrosse team received the same stipend/dollar amount each month.(at least this is what I recall) I am not sure the "stipends" were designated for only full scholarship athletes when they came about in 2015/2016. I also know from staying in touch with parents of current players at Vanderbilt that the monthly stipend amount has increased tremendously since my daughter graduated. It seems that each school can play with "cost of attending" numbers.

Here is a link to an article written 4 years ago, but it is informative:

https://theconversation.com/when-the-nc ... ses-163854

Someone also mentioned the Alston v NCAA case, this is a separate issue from stipends. The settlement the schools received in this case were lump sums and the schools did not have to distribute those funds to the student-athletes. Some schools divided the money evenly amongst the current student-athletes, some schools kept it in their general funds.

[lacrossemwj]

From what I understand this new stipend came from a Supreme Court Case Alston vs the NCAA in which the Court ruled that Universities could pay for other educational expenses beyond the tuition and room and board. This amount can only top out at $5,890. I know that some schools only do it for some sports, other schools don't go to the top amount that can be given out (e.g. 3,000 for each athlete). From what I understand, most lacrosse schools don't offer this money but there is a few that do.

But those stipends were designated for full scholarship athletes. I would think that in a sport like lacrosse which is an equivalency sport, that stipend would be added on to the "scholarship" value to be divided up between athletes. I would not think that if lets say 5 players received 20% tuition, room and board each would receive a $3,000 stipend as well. I have not been able to locate the actual rule yet to be certain. If anyone has it I would greatly appreciate seeing it.

I can only speak from my experiences with stipends at Vanderbilt that my daughter received. Everyone on the lacrosse team received the same stipend/dollar amount each month.(at least this is what I recall) I am not sure the "stipends" were designated for only full scholarship athletes when they came about in 2015/2016. I also know from staying in touch with parents of current players at Vanderbilt that the monthly stipend amount has increased tremendously since my daughter graduated. It seems that each school can play with "cost of attending" numbers.

Here is a link to an article written 4 years ago, but it is informative:

https://theconversation.com/when-the-nc ... ses-163854

Someone also mentioned the Alston v NCAA case, this is a separate issue from stipends. The settlement the schools received in this case were lump sums and the schools did not have to distribute those funds to the student-athletes. Some schools divided the money evenly amongst the current student-athletes, some schools kept it in their general funds.

I don't understand how this can exist simultaneously with lacrosse having 12.6 scholarships per school. Some school deciding to fund full tuition for all scholarship athletes or soe schools giving cost of living stipends seems to directly contradict the idea that there is a scholarship cap for certain sports.

[LaxDadMax]

From what I understand this new stipend came from a Supreme Court Case Alston vs the NCAA in which the Court ruled that Universities could pay for other educational expenses beyond the tuition and room and board. This amount can only top out at $5,890. I know that some schools only do it for some sports, other schools don't go to the top amount that can be given out (e.g. 3,000 for each athlete). From what I understand, most lacrosse schools don't offer this money but there is a few that do.

But those stipends were designated for full scholarship athletes. I would think that in a sport like lacrosse which is an equivalency sport, that stipend would be added on to the "scholarship" value to be divided up between athletes. I would not think that if lets say 5 players received 20% tuition, room and board each would receive a $3,000 stipend as well. I have not been able to locate the actual rule yet to be certain. If anyone has it I would greatly appreciate seeing it.

I can only speak from my experiences with stipends at Vanderbilt that my daughter received. Everyone on the lacrosse team received the same stipend/dollar amount each month.(at least this is what I recall) I am not sure the "stipends" were designated for only full scholarship athletes when they came about in 2015/2016. I also know from staying in touch with parents of current players at Vanderbilt that the monthly stipend amount has increased tremendously since my daughter graduated. It seems that each school can play with "cost of attending" numbers.

Here is a link to an article written 4 years ago, but it is informative:

https://theconversation.com/when-the-nc ... ses-163854

Someone also mentioned the Alston v NCAA case, this is a separate issue from stipends. The settlement the schools received in this case were lump sums and the schools did not have to distribute those funds to the student-athletes. Some schools divided the money evenly amongst the current student-athletes, some schools kept it in their general funds.

I don't understand how this can exist simultaneously with lacrosse having 12.6 scholarships per school. Some school deciding to fund full tuition for all scholarship athletes or soe schools giving cost of living stipends seems to directly contradict the idea that there is a scholarship cap for certain sports.

It's a separate pot of money. No limit or cap. Just has to be even across all sports for students who receive any athletic financial aid. So as long as football doesn't get more than other sports, its ok.

This is why some kids will actually get a very small athletic grants (think 2%) so that they are eligible for these funds.

[hmmm]

Many schools are giving the approx $6k stipend to all athletes in all sports. Especially schools with large AD budgets thanks to football such as Florida, PSU, Clemson, etc.

As mentioned, all girls get the same amount and it is in addition to whatever athletic, merit, need based aid they get.

There are some schools that are giving our minor scholarships. I personally know someone that is getting $1. But, they have to be a scholarship athlete to receive the stipend.

[Bart]

Many schools are giving the approx $6k stipend to all athletes in all sports. Especially schools with large AD budgets thanks to football such as Florida, PSU, Clemson, etc.

As mentioned, all girls get the same amount and it is in addition to whatever athletic, merit, need based aid they get.

There are some schools that are giving our minor scholarships. I personally know someone that is getting $1. But, they have to be a scholarship athlete to receive the stipend.

Interesting. Thanks to those whom cleared this up.

[RollTheCrease]

My understanding of the Alston Award is schools can choose to fund this program or not. And the schools can choose which athletic teams will receive this award. Those teams that receive the funding from their schools can provide each player up to $5,980 annually. I believe there are grade requirements to receive this award. I am not sure if the GPA is set by the school or NCAA. The money is apparently paid to the athletes at the end of each semester, so roughly $3K at that time if the athlete meets the GPA requirement.

I have not heard of many schools funding this program, but I also haven’t asked too many people.

[Kleizaster]

AS has made her decision from the looks of it (from the grapevine) She's doing rejection phone calls before announcing. It's not Clemson. Stonybrook, CUSE, UNC. edge Stony Brook

[Fischer]

AS has made her decision from the looks of it (from the grapevine) She's doing rejection phone calls before announcing. It's not Clemson. Stonybrook, CUSE, UNC. edge Stony Brook

I’m thinking not

[Madlax59]

AS has made her decision from the looks of it (from the grapevine) She's doing rejection phone calls before announcing. It's not Clemson. Stonybrook, CUSE, UNC. edge Stony Brook

I’m thinking not

My $$ on Cuse or UNC