Ivy League 2023

[Can Opener]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

[Farfromgeneva]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

[Stiffler]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

[Farfromgeneva]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

[molo]

Patriot League allows grad students who are not transfers to play.

[pcowlax]

There were always a few guys who graduated with a year of eligibility left and there will be so going forward but it will be VASTLY reduced from the garbage COVID period. No one will be bringing in 4 or 5 grad students in a year. If players continue to be able to transfer without siting out a year and NIL ever builds to the point of real money in lacrosse, then there may be more and more transfers and teams poaching talent that way but that is different than 24 year old 5th year players.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

The supply of available players will contract. Basketball was even worse as everyone was given an extra year despite playing a year.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There were always a few guys who graduated with a year of eligibility left and there will be so going forward but it will be VASTLY reduced from the garbage COVID period. No one will be bringing in 4 or 5 grad students in a year. If players continue to be able to transfer without siting out a year and NIL ever builds to the point of real money in lacrosse, then there may be more and more transfers and teams poaching talent that way but that is different than 24 year old 5th year players.

+1

[Farfromgeneva]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

The supply of available players will contract. Basketball was even worse as everyone was given an extra year despite playing a year.

No doubt but I think the “yield” or “pull through” (or call it utilization of spare capacity of eligibility) will increase from pre Covid levels. So if is typically 20% of what it was last year, say, and 10% of those would utilize the extra year elsewhere (3-7 kids or whatever), it may be 30-40% of that capacity that takes the year going forward. If that makes sense

[pcowlax]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

The supply of available players will contract. Basketball was even worse as everyone was given an extra year despite playing a year.

In D3 everyone who wanted it got 2 extra years (the truncated 2020 season and the full 2021 season don't count towards 4 years of playing)!! There are 6th year players putting up crazy career stats playing >100 games.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

The supply of available players will contract. Basketball was even worse as everyone was given an extra year despite playing a year.

No doubt but I think the “yield” or “pull through” (or call it utilization of spare capacity of eligibility) will increase from pre Covid levels. So if is typically 20% of what it was last year, say, and 10% of those would utilize the extra year elsewhere (3-7 kids or whatever), it may be 30-40% of that capacity that takes the year going forward. If that makes sense

The good players with eligibility were always approached by the schools active in the graduate transfer market. May increase, may not. I think things return to something more normal. Most difference makers will prefer to stay with their programs. More schools could decide to participate but the pool will be vastly reduced from what we have seen these past three years. Transfers will see the bigger bump, versus graduate transfers.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

The supply of available players will contract. Basketball was even worse as everyone was given an extra year despite playing a year.

In D3 everyone who wanted it got 2 extra years (the truncated 2020 season and the full 2021 season don't count towards 4 years of playing)!! There are 6th year players putting up crazy career stats playing >100 games.

I forgot about D3

[Chousnake]

Right now everybody has the 5th year of eligibility and schools like Norte Dame and Rutgers and Georgetown are adding multiple impact players a season.

From what I am reading above, in 2025 the pool of transfers will drastically reduce. For example, Ierlan has an extra year to play next season, but going forward, Ivy players who play 4 years will not have eligibility for an additional season. I’m looking forward to that normalcy again with the understanding that thee still be some players in the transfer portal.

[Chousnake]

In response to a post in another thread that stated the ACC was the best lacrosse conference by far with the Big 10 next and then a big gap to the Ivy and Patriot, I looked the the final four numbers for the last 5 years when all conferences played - 2016-19 and 2022 (this leaves out 2021 when the Ivies sat out).

It's pretty much a dead heat over this time period between the ACC, Big 10 and Ivies.

Final 4 appearances

Big 10 - 7
Ivy - 5
ACC - 4
Others -4 (1 each for 4 different conferences)

Champions

Big 10-2
ACC -2
Ivy -1

Runner UP

Ivy -2
Big 10-2
ACC -1

I think that those people saying the Ivy League is a one bid conference are wrong. We heard similar comments after Covid in 2020-21, including many who said Ivy League lax was done. 2023 was a down year, but these things ebb and flow. I'm confident that the Ivy League will continue to compete with the ACC and Big 10 for the foreseeable future.

[Typical Lax Dad]

In response to a post in another thread that stated the ACC was the best lacrosse conference by far with the Big 10 next and then a big gap to the Ivy and Patriot, I looked the the final four numbers for the last 5 years when all conferences played - 2016-19 and 2022 (this leaves out 2021 when the Ivies sat out).

It's pretty much a dead heat over this time period between the ACC, Big 10 and Ivies.

Final 4 appearances

Big 10 - 7
Ivy - 5
ACC - 4
Others -4 (1 each for 4 different conferences)

Champions

Big 10-2
ACC -2
Ivy -1

Runner UP

Ivy -2
Big 10-2
ACC -1

I think that those people saying the Ivy League is a one bid conference are wrong. We heard similar comments after Covid in 2020-21, including many who said Ivy League lax was done. 2023 was a down year, but these things ebb and flow. I'm confident that the Ivy League will continue to compete with the ACC and Big 10 for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for posting.

[Can Opener]

I really don't think the ivy comes out of this looking bad. Michigan just ripped through the big ten tournament but needed OT to beat cornell. Yale was very competive with a highly regarded Gtown team. Princeton barely loses to a good penn st. team. Sometimes things just don't break your way.

We will certainly see some Ivy hate here, but:

2 goal loss to All Star GT team of grad transfers
1 goal OT loss to Big Ten tourney champs
1 goal loss to Big Ten regular season champs

Not the desired result, but it's not like the Ivy teams did not belong on the same field as competitors. Some great lacrosse played.

A lot of the difference makers in the games this weekend were grad transfers. One more year before it burns off. Many of the Ivy players will be playing elsewhere next season.

Totally agree with this point. GT, Mich, Hop and ND have worked the grad transfer strategy to their benefit. Not a complaint, just a fact. UMD did it last year to perfection, as well. That strategy go's away. Transfers will still happen, which is good for the kids, but they will happen as undergrads and not the extra year thrown in. That should help the Ivy's get teams back into the top 10.

Unfortunately, for the Ivies, we will still see some grad transfers and graduate student players in the future. Coaches in conferences that allow graduate students to play lacrosse will continue to have an advantage. I would not be surprised to see more Shellenberger situations where the powerhouse schools redshirt even super elite players for their freshman years. There will always be a big batch of kids who missed a season due to injury, and they will be eligible for grad transfer years as well. The Patriot League and the Ivy League will continue to be at a disadvantage because they do not allow graduate students to play. I expect it will be less of a disadvantage, but now that Georgetown, Maryland, and others have tasted the heroin of having highly experienced players come in for a year, I doubt they are going to give up that addiction easily.

It happened occasionally before Covid it’s not new. Difference seems to be the choices kids make regarding going to work/moving on in life or getting another year out.

Isn't it still 5 years to play 4, once covid extra years dry up? So yes, a kid can transfer before he plays 4 years and it is within a 5 year window, but there will be no more 5th year of playing. The only way to have received a 5th year is with a redshirt (often medical), which the Ivies don't really do. As an example, Chris Fake would not be allowed to play for ND after playing 4 years at Yale. Am I wrong and now everyone hs 5 years of eligibility going forward?

No it’s 4 in 5 still but I think the theoretical pool of available talent was more robust than folks realize prior to covid. Just that most elected to move onto pro lacrosse or the real world rather than do a 1yr masters of fumble around as if getting a masters to do that season.

I guess it’s nomenclature but given nobody really got to conference play I don’t consider 2020 a season. But a lot of excellent kids end up somehow having a year of eligibility between redshirting, injuries and other circumstances. The pool of theoretical available talent pre Covid was there, just that only 1-2 would take it up most years at another school. Now moving around seems like it’s culturally/socially/intellectually different because there has been so much movement the last 2-3yrs. Like a poor mans version of what’s going on in FBS these days where guys are taking 5th years all over the map.

The supply of available players will contract. Basketball was even worse as everyone was given an extra year despite playing a year.

No doubt but I think the “yield” or “pull through” (or call it utilization of spare capacity of eligibility) will increase from pre Covid levels. So if is typically 20% of what it was last year, say, and 10% of those would utilize the extra year elsewhere (3-7 kids or whatever), it may be 30-40% of that capacity that takes the year going forward. If that makes sense

I agree with this take. There has been so much attention paid to grad transfers and graduate students continuing to play lacrosse, that it is much more front of mind with athletes today. I had a conversation several years ago with an Ivy League All American who had missed a full season due to injury. In his senior year, he knew other programs had interest in him playing as a grad student, but his attitude was: "Nah, that would be strange. These are my guys. How could I just walk into another locker room?" There seems to be dramatically less stigma about changing uniforms now post-Covid. Was there any player in America who watched Peter Thompson sobbing in joy after scoring the OT game winner for Michigan yesterday and said: "Dude made a bad choice by doing a grad year after getting his degree at Georgetown."

So we should see an uptick in the injury guys playing a grad year to get their 4 in 5. The big question will be whether we see more players and programs do an athletic redshirt in their freshman year. It is probably more valuable to keep the grad option open than to play a few garbage time minutes here and there as a freshman. Will it become accepted practice not to play those guys? Of course financial aid and athletic scholarships will factor into this equation for coaches and players.

[Laxbuck]

Schools that have merit money to stack on athletic scholarships will be more apt to redshirt young guys in hopes they develop into major contributors. What top 30 programs have significant merit $?

Best guess: (leaving Ivy League and Army/Navy/Air Force out)

No:
Duke
Hopkins
ND
UVA
Georgetown
UNC

Maybe:
Ohio St
Penn St
Michigan
Richmond
Lehigh
Villanova

Likely:
Maryland
Syracuse
Loyola
St. Joe’s
BU
Jacksonville
Utah
Denver
Marquette
U Mass
Delaware
Rutgers
Bryant
Vermont

[DocBarrister]

I don’t understand why the Ivies don’t permit graduate students to play. Their academic peers permit graduate students to play and I don’t think that has negatively impacted either academics or undergraduate athletics.

DocBarrister

[Farfromgeneva]

In response to a post in another thread that stated the ACC was the best lacrosse conference by far with the Big 10 next and then a big gap to the Ivy and Patriot, I looked the the final four numbers for the last 5 years when all conferences played - 2016-19 and 2022 (this leaves out 2021 when the Ivies sat out).

It's pretty much a dead heat over this time period between the ACC, Big 10 and Ivies.

Final 4 appearances

Big 10 - 7
Ivy - 5
ACC - 4
Others -4 (1 each for 4 different conferences)

Champions

Big 10-2
ACC -2
Ivy -1

Runner UP

Ivy -2
Big 10-2
ACC -1

I think that those people saying the Ivy League is a one bid conference are wrong. We heard similar comments after Covid in 2020-21, including many who said Ivy League lax was done. 2023 was a down year, but these things ebb and flow. I'm confident that the Ivy League will continue to compete with the ACC and Big 10 for the foreseeable future.

Feel like illustrating the breadth and depth of the distribution of these levels of achievement across conferences? Ie big ten final four appearance of seven came from four schools (think that’s right) and three Ivies. Or whatever if that makes sense.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t understand why the Ivies don’t permit graduate students to play. Their academic peers permit graduate students to play and I don’t think that has negatively impacted either academics or undergraduate athletics.

DocBarrister

I always presumed it was because their acceptance into most graduate programs (same as undergrad) are so low they don’t want to use spots for athletes deserving or otherwise and don’t want them staying in conference to a rival either.

Brother in laws, brother who’s emeritus now and former head of a large law firm in Boston who was summa cum laude in undergrad at Yale and supposedly got a perfect LSAT score but was told by the folks at Yale he should go elsewhere for law school so he went to Harvard Law. This was in the early mid 70s though but perhaps it’s related to that me tailors or thinking? (I’m sure dmac will question if I know anyone of value or anything because only he can know anything or anyone of value)

Edit pulled it up form the law firm site to make sure I had it correct even though I was just chopping it with him at my nephews wedding in Q1:

JD, magna cum laude, Harvard Law School, 1976; Editor, Harvard Law Review , 1974-75 and 1975-1976
BA, summa cum laude, Yale University, 1973