MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:33 am
Well, if we're done with the personal insults and emojis, it does seem to me that right wing media is doing its darnedest to paint the Biden Admin, specifically the State Dept as some sort of evil doers in the ongoing saga of getting Americans and allies out of Afghanistan.
First we have cradle's assertion, made by Fox and repeated by the NY Post, that Rick Clay (raising money for rescue efforts) and two unnamed private people say that the State Dept is slow walking specific approvals for individuals (vetting) and thus, some flights that might have happened, haven't.
Might have some truth (if this was a GOP Admin anyone doubt that Fox and NYP would be claiming that the vetting was necessary???);...or is it because the Taliban are actually the ones holding up the planes from leaving? much more likely...
Then we have shortly within 24 hours of that story, another claiming that a rescue which the State Dept says they helped facilitate and is applauding, they are somehow claiming too much credit.
In other words, if you don't help enough or fast enough, or actually have to negotiate to do it safely, you're bums, and if you do help then noting that is taking undue credit, you're bums...pattern there?
You do realize you are addressing 2 different rescue missions ?
In the overland rescue that succeeded, the group that organized, funded & facilitated the rescue is complaining that the State Dept is taking credit for the efforts of the volunteer group.
For the air recuse flights trapped in Mazir-I-Sharif, the State Dept is giving an evasive none answer. Of course we don't have anyone there to screen & verify the passengers & issue travel documents. This is an emergency air lift of evacuees from a war zone. The US State Dept has Embassy staff in Doha to coordinate these matters with the Qatari & Taliban officials there. Our SecState & SecDef are even there. All that should be reqd is for the US to assure the Qataris that all the passengers without the necessary documents will be immediately transported to the US. That should allow Qatar to issue diplomatic clearance for the flights to enter Qatar. All that's needed prior to departure is a thorough physical security check of the passengers & baggage. The US needs to assure that we will maintain custody of any passengers without the required travel documents & transport them to the US without extended delay for processing.
Of course I realize these are two different rescue efforts; the common denominator is Fox and others attacking the Biden Admin, specifically State dept. One for not doing enough (supposedly...or is that the Taliban are preventing departure), the other for taking credit for having a success happen.
There's going to be an incessant amount of these attacks on the Biden Admin. Some may actually be deserved, but they all lose credibility due to the astounding levels of hypocrisy from the right.
The Biden admin is also overstating (by implication) the number of evacuees by taking credit for the total numbers air lifted by the US, allies, NGO's, charters & commercial airlines. The USAF did not airlift all those souls out.
sourpuss
These weren't exactly boat people escaping Vietnam and Cambodia.
This was an extraordinary achievement; thing is, probably could have been even better...certainly the public relations aspect could have been better, but I think there are some real questions about execution.
I don't buy that this was ohh so obvious an f-up, but I think that there's good reason to wonder whether this was really the best they could do, or did the military folks just not believe they were actually gonna have to leave, no more waffling and so miscalculated?
Certainly there were Americans who didn't heed the months of being told to get out...
Good grief ! It's more urgent than the SE Asian boat people. We have hundreds of Americans, loyal Afghan allies, & their families trapped behind enemy lines, & you're whining about Biden getting bad press & spinning a botched evacuation as an "extraordinary achievement".
Biden was assuring them that it was ok to stay, right up until the fall of Kabul, & encouraging Ghani to perpetuate the lie.
obtw -- re "boat people" I have friends (former shipmates & squadronmates) whose heroism helped save thousands of them. What a stupid analogy. Research the extraordinary efforts that Richard Armitage undertook to get them safely into the PI https://www.npr.org/2010/09/01/12957826 ... nam-s-navy
They are not enemies. We signed a treaty with those folks and have a working agreement. We expected them to be in power and to run the government.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:33 am
Well, if we're done with the personal insults and emojis, it does seem to me that right wing media is doing its darnedest to paint the Biden Admin, specifically the State Dept as some sort of evil doers in the ongoing saga of getting Americans and allies out of Afghanistan.
First we have cradle's assertion, made by Fox and repeated by the NY Post, that Rick Clay (raising money for rescue efforts) and two unnamed private people say that the State Dept is slow walking specific approvals for individuals (vetting) and thus, some flights that might have happened, haven't.
Might have some truth (if this was a GOP Admin anyone doubt that Fox and NYP would be claiming that the vetting was necessary???);...or is it because the Taliban are actually the ones holding up the planes from leaving? much more likely...
Then we have shortly within 24 hours of that story, another claiming that a rescue which the State Dept says they helped facilitate and is applauding, they are somehow claiming too much credit.
In other words, if you don't help enough or fast enough, or actually have to negotiate to do it safely, you're bums, and if you do help then noting that is taking undue credit, you're bums...pattern there?
You do realize you are addressing 2 different rescue missions ?
In the overland rescue that succeeded, the group that organized, funded & facilitated the rescue is complaining that the State Dept is taking credit for the efforts of the volunteer group.
For the air recuse flights trapped in Mazir-I-Sharif, the State Dept is giving an evasive none answer. Of course we don't have anyone there to screen & verify the passengers & issue travel documents. This is an emergency air lift of evacuees from a war zone. The US State Dept has Embassy staff in Doha to coordinate these matters with the Qatari & Taliban officials there. Our SecState & SecDef are even there. All that should be reqd is for the US to assure the Qataris that all the passengers without the necessary documents will be immediately transported to the US. That should allow Qatar to issue diplomatic clearance for the flights to enter Qatar. All that's needed prior to departure is a thorough physical security check of the passengers & baggage. The US needs to assure that we will maintain custody of any passengers without the required travel documents & transport them to the US without extended delay for processing.
Of course I realize these are two different rescue efforts; the common denominator is Fox and others attacking the Biden Admin, specifically State dept. One for not doing enough (supposedly...or is that the Taliban are preventing departure), the other for taking credit for having a success happen.
There's going to be an incessant amount of these attacks on the Biden Admin. Some may actually be deserved, but they all lose credibility due to the astounding levels of hypocrisy from the right.
The Biden admin is also overstating (by implication) the number of evacuees by taking credit for the total numbers air lifted by the US, allies, NGO's, charters & commercial airlines. The USAF did not airlift all those souls out.
sourpuss
These weren't exactly boat people escaping Vietnam and Cambodia.
This was an extraordinary achievement; thing is, probably could have been even better...certainly the public relations aspect could have been better, but I think there are some real questions about execution.
I don't buy that this was ohh so obvious an f-up, but I think that there's good reason to wonder whether this was really the best they could do, or did the military folks just not believe they were actually gonna have to leave, no more waffling and so miscalculated?
Certainly there were Americans who didn't heed the months of being told to get out...
Good grief ! It's more urgent than the SE Asian boat people. We have hundreds of Americans, loyal Afghan allies, & their families trapped behind enemy lines, & you're whining about Biden getting bad press & spinning a botched evacuation as an "extraordinary achievement".
Biden was assuring them that it was ok to stay, right up until the fall of Kabul, & encouraging Ghani to perpetuate the lie.
obtw -- re "boat people" I have friends (former shipmates & squadronmates) whose heroism helped save thousands of them. What a stupid analogy. Research the extraordinary efforts that Richard Armitage undertook to get them safely into the PI https://www.npr.org/2010/09/01/12957826 ... nam-s-navy
They are not enemies. We signed a treaty with those folks and have a working agreement. We expected them to be in power and to run the government.
That's fiction. It was no treaty. It wasn't ratified by the Senate. The agreement called for a cease fire & negotiations leading to a unity govt including the Taliban. Nobody elected the Taliban & we never recognized them as the national govt.
Re: Taliban reclaims Afghanistan
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:55 pm
by Brooklyn
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:42 pm
So, too would our Founding Fathers have been hanged for "treason" had they been caught by the British. And we had French assistance.
Let's just say that we disagree strenuously.
In case you didn't know it, the imperialistic British lost their war of colonialist terrorism. The puppet regimes they imposed on the so called 13 colonies had been dissolved by majority consent. By contrast, the majority of the people in Afghanistan supported the Taliban and did not accept the puppet regime imposed by traitor and imperialist Bush. When Talibani forces marched into provincial capitols, the people stood aside and endorsed them in reclaiming the administrative control that was properly theirs.
124,000 traitors were allowed to leave that country thanks to the good diplomacy undertaken by President Biden. Had it been tRump, the right wingers would be praising him. Being the liars that they are, they along with the media pals are criticizing Biden when they would have been wiping tRump's rump to no end.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:42 pm
So, too would our Founding Fathers have been hanged for "treason" had they been caught by the British. And we had French assistance.
Let's just say that we disagree strenuously.
In case you didn't know it, the imperialistic British lost their war of colonialist terrorism. The puppet regimes they imposed on the so called 13 colonies had been dissolved by majority consent. By contrast, the majority of the people in Afghanistan supported the Taliban and did not accept the puppet regime imposed by traitor and imperialist Bush. When Talibani forces marched into provincial capitols, the people stood aside and endorsed them in reclaiming the administrative control that was properly theirs.
124,000 traitors were allowed to leave that country thanks to the good diplomacy undertaken by President Biden. Had it been tRump, the right wingers would be praising him. Being the liars that they are, they along with the media pals are criticizing Biden when they would have been wiping tRump's rump to no end.
I’ll have to ask a friend that I grew up with who’s an expert on human rights issues if you are correct in all these assertions you have made about the Afghani people as he’a been there many times though current focus is some issue in Myanmar. I doubt you’d believe him though either.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:42 pm
So, too would our Founding Fathers have been hanged for "treason" had they been caught by the British. And we had French assistance.
Let's just say that we disagree strenuously.
In case you didn't know it, the imperialistic British lost their war of colonialist terrorism. The puppet regimes they imposed on the so called 13 colonies had been dissolved by majority consent. By contrast, the majority of the people in Afghanistan supported the Taliban and did not accept the puppet regime imposed by traitor and imperialist Bush. When Talibani forces marched into provincial capitols, the people stood aside and endorsed them in reclaiming the administrative control that was properly theirs.
124,000 traitors were allowed to leave that country thanks to the good diplomacy undertaken by President Biden. Had it been tRump, the right wingers would be praising him. Being the liars that they are, they along with the media pals are criticizing Biden when they would have been wiping tRump's rump to no end.
in case I didn't know it...
I do agree about the hypocrisy of the Trump folks, but not the way you attempt to recast the world in such black and white terms.
I’ll have to ask a friend that I grew up with who’s an expert on human rights issues if you are correct in all these assertions you have made about the Afghani people as he’a been there many times though current focus is some issue in Myanmar. I doubt you’d believe him though either.
Don't know the situation there quite as well. I know there's an opposition party (forget the name off hand) that has called for a revolution against the military junta in control. Don't know how the people stand on the issue. Perhaps you may want to start another thread on the topic.
I’ll have to ask a friend that I grew up with who’s an expert on human rights issues if you are correct in all these assertions you have made about the Afghani people as he’a been there many times though current focus is some issue in Myanmar. I doubt you’d believe him though either.
Don't know the situation there quite as well. I know there's an opposition party (forget the name off hand) that has called for a revolution against the military junta in control. Don't know how the people stand on the issue. Perhaps you may want to start another thread on the topic.
I’m talking about asking if what you say has merit as he’s worked with Afghanistan boots on the ground far more than you or anyone here has. I’ll defer to him. I’m sure you won’t.
That's fiction. It was no treaty. It wasn't ratified by the Senate. The agreement called for a cease fire & negotiations leading to a unity govt including the Taliban. Nobody elected the Taliban & we never recognized them as the national govt.
The only thing that matters is that the Afghans recognize the Taliban as their government. They are not anyone's enemy. The only real enemies are those who invaded that country and imposed depredations which deserve a Nuremberg tribunal for their crimes.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:33 am
Well, if we're done with the personal insults and emojis, it does seem to me that right wing media is doing its darnedest to paint the Biden Admin, specifically the State Dept as some sort of evil doers in the ongoing saga of getting Americans and allies out of Afghanistan.
First we have cradle's assertion, made by Fox and repeated by the NY Post, that Rick Clay (raising money for rescue efforts) and two unnamed private people say that the State Dept is slow walking specific approvals for individuals (vetting) and thus, some flights that might have happened, haven't.
Might have some truth (if this was a GOP Admin anyone doubt that Fox and NYP would be claiming that the vetting was necessary???);...or is it because the Taliban are actually the ones holding up the planes from leaving? much more likely...
Then we have shortly within 24 hours of that story, another claiming that a rescue which the State Dept says they helped facilitate and is applauding, they are somehow claiming too much credit.
In other words, if you don't help enough or fast enough, or actually have to negotiate to do it safely, you're bums, and if you do help then noting that is taking undue credit, you're bums...pattern there?
You do realize you are addressing 2 different rescue missions ?
In the overland rescue that succeeded, the group that organized, funded & facilitated the rescue is complaining that the State Dept is taking credit for the efforts of the volunteer group.
For the air recuse flights trapped in Mazir-I-Sharif, the State Dept is giving an evasive none answer. Of course we don't have anyone there to screen & verify the passengers & issue travel documents. This is an emergency air lift of evacuees from a war zone. The US State Dept has Embassy staff in Doha to coordinate these matters with the Qatari & Taliban officials there. Our SecState & SecDef are even there. All that should be reqd is for the US to assure the Qataris that all the passengers without the necessary documents will be immediately transported to the US. That should allow Qatar to issue diplomatic clearance for the flights to enter Qatar. All that's needed prior to departure is a thorough physical security check of the passengers & baggage. The US needs to assure that we will maintain custody of any passengers without the required travel documents & transport them to the US without extended delay for processing.
Of course I realize these are two different rescue efforts; the common denominator is Fox and others attacking the Biden Admin, specifically State dept. One for not doing enough (supposedly...or is that the Taliban are preventing departure), the other for taking credit for having a success happen.
There's going to be an incessant amount of these attacks on the Biden Admin. Some may actually be deserved, but they all lose credibility due to the astounding levels of hypocrisy from the right.
The Biden admin is also overstating (by implication) the number of evacuees by taking credit for the total numbers air lifted by the US, allies, NGO's, charters & commercial airlines. The USAF did not airlift all those souls out.
sourpuss
These weren't exactly boat people escaping Vietnam and Cambodia.
This was an extraordinary achievement; thing is, probably could have been even better...certainly the public relations aspect could have been better, but I think there are some real questions about execution.
I don't buy that this was ohh so obvious an f-up, but I think that there's good reason to wonder whether this was really the best they could do, or did the military folks just not believe they were actually gonna have to leave, no more waffling and so miscalculated?
Certainly there were Americans who didn't heed the months of being told to get out...
Good grief ! It's more urgent than the SE Asian boat people. We have hundreds of Americans, loyal Afghan allies, & their families trapped behind enemy lines, & you're whining about Biden getting bad press & spinning a botched evacuation as an "extraordinary achievement".
Biden was assuring them that it was ok to stay, right up until the fall of Kabul, & encouraging Ghani to perpetuate the lie.
obtw -- re "boat people" I have friends (former shipmates & squadronmates) whose heroism helped save thousands of them. What a stupid analogy. Research the extraordinary efforts that Richard Armitage undertook to get them safely into the PI https://www.npr.org/2010/09/01/12957826 ... nam-s-navy
They are not enemies. We signed a treaty with those folks and have a working agreement. We expected them to be in power and to run the government.
That's fiction. It was no treaty. It wasn't ratified by the Senate. The agreement called for a cease fire & negotiations leading to a unity govt including the Taliban. Nobody elected the Taliban & we never recognized them as the national govt.
It’s early. Patience ancient grasshopper. We just left town. We were supposed to be out May 1st. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:33 am
Well, if we're done with the personal insults and emojis, it does seem to me that right wing media is doing its darnedest to paint the Biden Admin, specifically the State Dept as some sort of evil doers in the ongoing saga of getting Americans and allies out of Afghanistan.
First we have cradle's assertion, made by Fox and repeated by the NY Post, that Rick Clay (raising money for rescue efforts) and two unnamed private people say that the State Dept is slow walking specific approvals for individuals (vetting) and thus, some flights that might have happened, haven't.
Might have some truth (if this was a GOP Admin anyone doubt that Fox and NYP would be claiming that the vetting was necessary???);...or is it because the Taliban are actually the ones holding up the planes from leaving? much more likely...
Then we have shortly within 24 hours of that story, another claiming that a rescue which the State Dept says they helped facilitate and is applauding, they are somehow claiming too much credit.
In other words, if you don't help enough or fast enough, or actually have to negotiate to do it safely, you're bums, and if you do help then noting that is taking undue credit, you're bums...pattern there?
You do realize you are addressing 2 different rescue missions ?
In the overland rescue that succeeded, the group that organized, funded & facilitated the rescue is complaining that the State Dept is taking credit for the efforts of the volunteer group.
For the air recuse flights trapped in Mazir-I-Sharif, the State Dept is giving an evasive none answer. Of course we don't have anyone there to screen & verify the passengers & issue travel documents. This is an emergency air lift of evacuees from a war zone. The US State Dept has Embassy staff in Doha to coordinate these matters with the Qatari & Taliban officials there. Our SecState & SecDef are even there. All that should be reqd is for the US to assure the Qataris that all the passengers without the necessary documents will be immediately transported to the US. That should allow Qatar to issue diplomatic clearance for the flights to enter Qatar. All that's needed prior to departure is a thorough physical security check of the passengers & baggage. The US needs to assure that we will maintain custody of any passengers without the required travel documents & transport them to the US without extended delay for processing.
Of course I realize these are two different rescue efforts; the common denominator is Fox and others attacking the Biden Admin, specifically State dept. One for not doing enough (supposedly...or is that the Taliban are preventing departure), the other for taking credit for having a success happen.
There's going to be an incessant amount of these attacks on the Biden Admin. Some may actually be deserved, but they all lose credibility due to the astounding levels of hypocrisy from the right.
The Biden admin is also overstating (by implication) the number of evacuees by taking credit for the total numbers air lifted by the US, allies, NGO's, charters & commercial airlines. The USAF did not airlift all those souls out.
sourpuss
These weren't exactly boat people escaping Vietnam and Cambodia.
This was an extraordinary achievement; thing is, probably could have been even better...certainly the public relations aspect could have been better, but I think there are some real questions about execution.
I don't buy that this was ohh so obvious an f-up, but I think that there's good reason to wonder whether this was really the best they could do, or did the military folks just not believe they were actually gonna have to leave, no more waffling and so miscalculated?
Certainly there were Americans who didn't heed the months of being told to get out...
Good grief ! It's more urgent than the SE Asian boat people. We have hundreds of Americans, loyal Afghan allies, & their families trapped behind enemy lines, & you're whining about Biden getting bad press & spinning a botched evacuation as an "extraordinary achievement".
Biden was assuring them that it was ok to stay, right up until the fall of Kabul, & encouraging Ghani to perpetuate the lie.
obtw -- re "boat people" I have friends (former shipmates & squadronmates) whose heroism helped save thousands of them. What a stupid analogy. Research the extraordinary efforts that Richard Armitage undertook to get them safely into the PI https://www.npr.org/2010/09/01/12957826 ... nam-s-navy
They are not enemies. We signed a treaty with those folks and have a working agreement. We expected them to be in power and to run the government.
That's fiction. It was no treaty. It wasn't ratified by the Senate. The agreement called for a cease fire & negotiations leading to a unity govt including the Taliban. Nobody elected the Taliban & we never recognized them as the national govt.
ahhh well, we do know where you're coming from.
Yes, not a formal treaty, ratified by Congress...but certainly an agreement made. We could have broken, we certainly have broken many agreements made throughout history, whether treaty or no treaty. American history is replete with us going back on our commitments.
I totally agree that the Taliban was never elected nor is it incumbent upon us to formally 'recognize' them beyond acknowledging the reality on the ground. IMO, it was an enormous mistake of the Trump Admin to flirt with them, shutting out the then in power Afghan gov't and military and essentially invite them to prepare to take over once we left, having given them a date certain. Enormous mistake.
I'd have played it differently than Biden too. But I'm not read-in on the intelligence, don't know all the trade-offs other than what seems apparent in public view.
As to the Americans left, ALL of them have long known they needed to get out long ago...unless they were ordered to stay for some secret reason, I don't think these people were actually 'left behind'...nope, they failed to heed the warnings to get their butts out of there months ago. Same for any westerners for that matter.
I'm much, much more sympathetic to the plight of the Afghan allies. It's been an enormous travesty that we've made it so hard for them to come to the US over these past couple of years when it became perfectly evident that we were on path to leave. I blame both of these Admins for not doing more.
No, not a stupid analogy...before the fall of Saigon, how many Vietnamese allies did we actually get out?...very small #'s in comparison to this effort...and we're certainly not finished...the next folks out will be more akin to the boat people dying on the seas in desperate efforts to leave. Not all will make it; tragedies will be many. And in no way at all am I not respecting and appreciating the courage and dedication of those who did their darnedest to help those Vietnamese etc allies.
QFP -- blaming the Americans who were left behind, many waiting for green cards for spouse, kids, &/or parents.
You'd have left your's behind ? While Pres Biden was on tv telling the world that things would remain stable.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:39 pm
As to the Americans left, ALL of them have long known they needed to get out long ago...unless they were ordered to stay for some secret reason, I don't think these people were actually 'left behind'...nope, they failed to heed the warnings to get their butts out of there months ago. Same for any westerners for that matter.
I'm much, much more sympathetic to the plight of the Afghan allies. It's been an enormous travesty that we've made it so hard for them to come to the US over these past couple of years when it became perfectly evident that we were on path to leave. I blame both of these Admins for not doing more.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:33 am
Well, if we're done with the personal insults and emojis, it does seem to me that right wing media is doing its darnedest to paint the Biden Admin, specifically the State Dept as some sort of evil doers in the ongoing saga of getting Americans and allies out of Afghanistan.
First we have cradle's assertion, made by Fox and repeated by the NY Post, that Rick Clay (raising money for rescue efforts) and two unnamed private people say that the State Dept is slow walking specific approvals for individuals (vetting) and thus, some flights that might have happened, haven't.
Might have some truth (if this was a GOP Admin anyone doubt that Fox and NYP would be claiming that the vetting was necessary???);...or is it because the Taliban are actually the ones holding up the planes from leaving? much more likely...
Then we have shortly within 24 hours of that story, another claiming that a rescue which the State Dept says they helped facilitate and is applauding, they are somehow claiming too much credit.
In other words, if you don't help enough or fast enough, or actually have to negotiate to do it safely, you're bums, and if you do help then noting that is taking undue credit, you're bums...pattern there?
You do realize you are addressing 2 different rescue missions ?
In the overland rescue that succeeded, the group that organized, funded & facilitated the rescue is complaining that the State Dept is taking credit for the efforts of the volunteer group.
For the air recuse flights trapped in Mazir-I-Sharif, the State Dept is giving an evasive none answer. Of course we don't have anyone there to screen & verify the passengers & issue travel documents. This is an emergency air lift of evacuees from a war zone. The US State Dept has Embassy staff in Doha to coordinate these matters with the Qatari & Taliban officials there. Our SecState & SecDef are even there. All that should be reqd is for the US to assure the Qataris that all the passengers without the necessary documents will be immediately transported to the US. That should allow Qatar to issue diplomatic clearance for the flights to enter Qatar. All that's needed prior to departure is a thorough physical security check of the passengers & baggage. The US needs to assure that we will maintain custody of any passengers without the required travel documents & transport them to the US without extended delay for processing.
Of course I realize these are two different rescue efforts; the common denominator is Fox and others attacking the Biden Admin, specifically State dept. One for not doing enough (supposedly...or is that the Taliban are preventing departure), the other for taking credit for having a success happen.
There's going to be an incessant amount of these attacks on the Biden Admin. Some may actually be deserved, but they all lose credibility due to the astounding levels of hypocrisy from the right.
The Biden admin is also overstating (by implication) the number of evacuees by taking credit for the total numbers air lifted by the US, allies, NGO's, charters & commercial airlines. The USAF did not airlift all those souls out.
sourpuss
These weren't exactly boat people escaping Vietnam and Cambodia.
This was an extraordinary achievement; thing is, probably could have been even better...certainly the public relations aspect could have been better, but I think there are some real questions about execution.
I don't buy that this was ohh so obvious an f-up, but I think that there's good reason to wonder whether this was really the best they could do, or did the military folks just not believe they were actually gonna have to leave, no more waffling and so miscalculated?
Certainly there were Americans who didn't heed the months of being told to get out...
Good grief ! It's more urgent than the SE Asian boat people. We have hundreds of Americans, loyal Afghan allies, & their families trapped behind enemy lines, & you're whining about Biden getting bad press & spinning a botched evacuation as an "extraordinary achievement".
Biden was assuring them that it was ok to stay, right up until the fall of Kabul, & encouraging Ghani to perpetuate the lie.
obtw -- re "boat people" I have friends (former shipmates & squadronmates) whose heroism helped save thousands of them. What a stupid analogy. Research the extraordinary efforts that Richard Armitage undertook to get them safely into the PI https://www.npr.org/2010/09/01/12957826 ... nam-s-navy
They are not enemies. We signed a treaty with those folks and have a working agreement. We expected them to be in power and to run the government.
That's fiction. It was no treaty. It wasn't ratified by the Senate. The agreement called for a cease fire & negotiations leading to a unity govt including the Taliban. Nobody elected the Taliban & we never recognized them as the national govt.
OS you are the only person on this forum I believe has the knowledge to answer this very simple question. Why did the US bugout of Bagram with no notice and who would have made such a stupid decision? This stinks to me like a decision made by someone very high up in DC. I'm also wondering where the leaks are in the Biden administration when we really need them?
