LaxPower Back-Up Stick

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I am confused by people who can't look past Trump to see the far larger potential implications of what just happened in FL. People like Putin send the federal police to raid their former political adversaries after they knocked them out of power, not US Presidents. Believe me, I firmly believe that no one, not even and perhaps especially not POTUS, is above the law. Heck, you could convince me that part of the price of having the honor of being POTUS is you should have a nice federally funded retirement - but put away where you can't have any more influence over policy.

With that said, if you are going to deploy federal law enforcement to raid the home of a former US president - particularly one that can (and is expected to) run for office again - you better be REALLY certain that what you are after is unprecedented. Short of treason, you should be aiming for something a lot less dramatic, if for no other reason than you need to be extremely prudent with the use of government power over your political opponents.

Appearances here matter. But, I suspect that they got the exact appearance they wanted - and now have their sound bite of the feds raiding Trump as "proof" of his guilt of something.

I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

“Short of treason, you should be aiming for something a lot less dramatic, if for no other reason than you need to be extremely prudent with the use of government power over your political opponents. ”

Treason is a perfect word for tRump’s actions.

https://constitution.congress.gov/brows ... _00001226/

“ On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors. But there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treason”

Gathering forces? Check. Aware of weaponry? Check. Dispatching said forces to attack the legal transfer of presidential power at the site of our nation (Capitol)? Check.

What more do you need?

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:36 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:24 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:29 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:04 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:48 pmThanks for clearing up where you stand politically. Sounds like you identify more with the Democratic Party these days...

Do you identify with the current Republican Party, or any party in particular? What are your political ideologies?

I am a republican. You knew the answer to that, why even ask?

Was simply curious, no need to get upset over a simple question. I was also interested in what you believe in, and not just a label. Because Republicans have a wide range of ideologies and beliefs, and a ton of them have changed drastically over the past 6 years and past 60 years respectively. Democrats too, but their ideologies have changed more in the long term and less in the short term..

I am not a MAGA type. Fair-weather Republican.

So as a Fair-weather Republican, by definition, you change your fundamental beliefs simply by who is winning in the Republican party?

That's the MAGA types for the past 6+ years.

You're saying you don't have any solid foundational beliefs in how government should be run or what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country? You just rely on what the winning dude says we should do?

I, too, am interested in what 2000 means by "fair-weather Republican"...your interpretation certainly seems likely on the mark, but 2000 what say you?

Please explain your actual views. Fully.
To be helpful, I suggested a bunch of prompts, and Natty Boh has as well.
I like his add "and what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country?"

I vote for the person in the Republican Party that I think can best do the job and lead our country. I don't blindly follow what they do or so if it turns out that I was wrong and they weren't the best person for the job. Then I start look within my party to find who I think will be the best person to put forward in the next election. Despite what has been said on this forum, I happen to like a lot of the things DeSantis has done and the energy and ideas he brings to the table. Doesn't mean that he is who I am voting for, I just happen to like a lot of what he does. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he the threat to society that you have claimed he is? Far from it. This answer was not intended for you to lecture me on DeSantis, FYI. I don't need your opinion on him, I have seen it enough in my first few months here...

Correct, I've been clear about my view about DeSantis, which have only hardened the more I've watched him make decisions in office.

But, "I just happen to like a lot of what he does." seems quite reminiscent of folks' excuse about Trump "I like his policies", "I like his strength"...

Which policies and why?
In your case, what does he do that you like so much that you'd consider voting for him over, say a moderate Democrat?

Or are you GOP all the time, no matter what?

I asked a number of prompts...plenty of opportunity to fully explain your views.
This is a discussion site, you are being invited to discuss.

Expect pushback where people disagree. Again, discussion.

First, is anything I see going to change your mind about him? At all? He can relate to all different types of voters, especially the Latinx. He doesn't back down from a good fight, has strong conviction and plays well to his base. Are you going to vote for Biden? Or Kamala Harris?

I'd vote for either over DeSantis, and neither would be my preferred candidate in 2024. I don't like Harris, and Biden is too old IMO to be as sound in 2024-28 as he is in this stretch.

However, I see DeSantis as a competent fascist, but a fascist nevertheless and the GOP is primed to back anything he does in the interest of power.

So, it's back to voting for a piece of wood over the fascist, same calculation as I had in 2020.

I do agree that DeSantis can appeal to some hispanic voters, particularly those for whom "socialist" is really scary, for good reason...but what's scary IMO is an authoritarian, and right wing such are just as bad as left wing ones.

I don't see DeSantis as simply someone who doesn't back down from a fight, rather he's picking unnecessary ones for political gain, and worse, he's using powers of government as. bully that definitely signal the fascist tendencies...gotta remember, that's exactly what the "base" thinks they want, a "Christian nationalist".

So, no, I'm extremely unlikely to change my mind about DeSantis and the stakes at hand.

Give me Hogan or Cheney or...but not a fascist.

Thanks, guess we will agree to disagree here. I just don't see DeSantis as the same threat that you do. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just have other things that keep me up at night, Ron DeSantis not even remotely being one of them...

No need to personalize this as you being a "bad person" simply because you haven't focused on why DeSantis is a fascist threat yet. You have plenty of time!

Feel free to engage on what does keep you up at night and why...we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully.

Why do I have to prove to you he is not a Facist Threat? Because you say he is? That's laughable. You are not the authority on Ron DeSantis. Your opinion is in the minority in many, many places. This site not being one of them. Because you say he is, you won't take my opinions on him seriously until I prove to you that he is not a Facist threat? That's 3rd grade logic right there. There is nothing in the world I can say to you that will change your mind. Why bother? That's not discussion, that's you attempting to control the narrative. Not how it works in life. Maybe in FanLax Forums, but not in reality. Why do you attempt to do this? It's disingenuous behavior...

An odd interpretation.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:36 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:24 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:29 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:04 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:48 pmThanks for clearing up where you stand politically. Sounds like you identify more with the Democratic Party these days...

Do you identify with the current Republican Party, or any party in particular? What are your political ideologies?

I am a republican. You knew the answer to that, why even ask?

Was simply curious, no need to get upset over a simple question. I was also interested in what you believe in, and not just a label. Because Republicans have a wide range of ideologies and beliefs, and a ton of them have changed drastically over the past 6 years and past 60 years respectively. Democrats too, but their ideologies have changed more in the long term and less in the short term..

I am not a MAGA type. Fair-weather Republican.

So as a Fair-weather Republican, by definition, you change your fundamental beliefs simply by who is winning in the Republican party?

That's the MAGA types for the past 6+ years.

You're saying you don't have any solid foundational beliefs in how government should be run or what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country? You just rely on what the winning dude says we should do?

I, too, am interested in what 2000 means by "fair-weather Republican"...your interpretation certainly seems likely on the mark, but 2000 what say you?

Please explain your actual views. Fully.
To be helpful, I suggested a bunch of prompts, and Natty Boh has as well.
I like his add "and what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country?"

I vote for the person in the Republican Party that I think can best do the job and lead our country. I don't blindly follow what they do or so if it turns out that I was wrong and they weren't the best person for the job. Then I start look within my party to find who I think will be the best person to put forward in the next election. Despite what has been said on this forum, I happen to like a lot of the things DeSantis has done and the energy and ideas he brings to the table. Doesn't mean that he is who I am voting for, I just happen to like a lot of what he does. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he the threat to society that you have claimed he is? Far from it. This answer was not intended for you to lecture me on DeSantis, FYI. I don't need your opinion on him, I have seen it enough in my first few months here...

Correct, I've been clear about my view about DeSantis, which have only hardened the more I've watched him make decisions in office.

But, "I just happen to like a lot of what he does." seems quite reminiscent of folks' excuse about Trump "I like his policies", "I like his strength"...

Which policies and why?
In your case, what does he do that you like so much that you'd consider voting for him over, say a moderate Democrat?

Or are you GOP all the time, no matter what?

I asked a number of prompts...plenty of opportunity to fully explain your views.
This is a discussion site, you are being invited to discuss.

Expect pushback where people disagree. Again, discussion.

First, is anything I see going to change your mind about him? At all? He can relate to all different types of voters, especially the Latinx. He doesn't back down from a good fight, has strong conviction and plays well to his base. Are you going to vote for Biden? Or Kamala Harris?

I'd vote for either over DeSantis, and neither would be my preferred candidate in 2024. I don't like Harris, and Biden is too old IMO to be as sound in 2024-28 as he is in this stretch.

However, I see DeSantis as a competent fascist, but a fascist nevertheless and the GOP is primed to back anything he does in the interest of power.

So, it's back to voting for a piece of wood over the fascist, same calculation as I had in 2020.

I do agree that DeSantis can appeal to some hispanic voters, particularly those for whom "socialist" is really scary, for good reason...but what's scary IMO is an authoritarian, and right wing such are just as bad as left wing ones.

I don't see DeSantis as simply someone who doesn't back down from a fight, rather he's picking unnecessary ones for political gain, and worse, he's using powers of government as. bully that definitely signal the fascist tendencies...gotta remember, that's exactly what the "base" thinks they want, a "Christian nationalist".

So, no, I'm extremely unlikely to change my mind about DeSantis and the stakes at hand.

Give me Hogan or Cheney or...but not a fascist.

Thanks, guess we will agree to disagree here. I just don't see DeSantis as the same threat that you do. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just have other things that keep me up at night, Ron DeSantis not even remotely being one of them...

No need to personalize this as you being a "bad person" simply because you haven't focused on why DeSantis is a fascist threat yet. You have plenty of time!

Feel free to engage on what does keep you up at night and why...we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully.

Why do I have to prove to you he is not a Facist Threat? Because you say he is? That's laughable. You are not the authority on Ron DeSantis. Your opinion is in the minority in many, many places. This site not being one of them. Because you say he is, you won't take my opinions on him seriously until I prove to you that he is not a Facist threat? That's 3rd grade logic right there. There is nothing in the world I can say to you that will change your mind. Why bother? That's not discussion, that's you attempting to control the narrative. Not how it works in life. Maybe in FanLax Forums, but not in reality. Why do you attempt to do this? It's disingenuous behavior...

An odd interpretation.

Why is it odd?

Kismet wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:27 am

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I am confused by people who can't look past Trump to see the far larger potential implications of what just happened in FL. People like Putin send the federal police to raid their former political adversaries after they knocked them out of power, not US Presidents. Believe me, I firmly believe that no one, not even and perhaps especially not POTUS, is above the law. Heck, you could convince me that part of the price of having the honor of being POTUS is you should have a nice federally funded retirement - but put away where you can't have any more influence over policy.

With that said, if you are going to deploy federal law enforcement to raid the home of a former US president - particularly one that can (and is expected to) run for office again - you better be REALLY certain that what you are after is unprecedented. Short of treason, you should be aiming for something a lot less dramatic, if for no other reason than you need to be extremely prudent with the use of government power over your political opponents.

Appearances here matter. But, I suspect that they got the exact appearance they wanted - and now have their sound bite of the feds raiding Trump as "proof" of his guilt of something.

I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

I have to think that they agree 100%= sure and that this was signed off by the top of DoJ - Garland and his deputy Monaco plus FBI head and that they will release this at the appropriate time and place. A federal magistrate signed off on the search warrant.

This isn't the DOPUS crowd at DoJ. Garland is a former and long standing appellate court federal judge who knows his way around. He is in this job because he knows the deal here.

He is on the record that NOBODY is above the law

Garland should really be in the Supreme Court so maybe the McConnell crowd were savvy keeping him off getting trump as a complete moron to take their choices on scotus then get him run out by the FBI who’s now run by Garland? Would be long game for sure.

What we know — and don't know — about Trump and the FBI

Mike Allen
Mike Allen
, author of Axios AM

Axios on facebook

Axios on twitter

Axios on linkedin

Axios on email
A view of Mar-a-Lago from the water
Mar-a-Lago. Photo: Joe Raedle/Getty Images
Hours after the FBI searched former President Trump's Mar-a-Lago home, his supporters gathered outside in an impromptu rally: Trump flags flew, pickups roared and "We're Not Gonna Take It" blared.

Why it matters: Trump and the American right mobilized to use the raid as a symbol of government overreach and "political persecution," with a speed, fury and ferocity not seen since he left office.

The FBI and Justice Department have said nothing official about what happened. Republicans instantly moved to portray the raid as President Biden trying to hurt a potential 2024 opponent.

The conservative National Review said: "[T]he idea that a law enforcement organization under a sitting president would raid the home of his predecessor, opponent in the previous election, and potential opponent in the next election, has no close parallel in American history."
Catch up quick: With Trump in Manhattan, the FBI raided Trump's Palm Beach estate on Monday, apparently as part of an investigation into whether he took classified records from the White House to Mar-a-Lago.

"They even broke into my safe!" Trump said in a statement.
A senior U.S. official tells NBC's Kelly O'Donnell that the FBI was present "for the majority of the day," but said Trump’s use of the word "raid" wasn't appropriate: They were "not breaking down doors here."

The official described it as an orderly execution of a search warrant.
The FBI notified the Secret Service that a warrant would be executed. The Secret Service "facilitated access to the Florida Trump property as fellow federal agents but did not take part in investigation or search," O'Donnell tweeted.

Outside Mar-a-Lago last night, a Trump supporter shouts as Kamrel Eppinger reports live on WPTV 5, the NBC affiliate in West Palm Beach. Photo: Eva Marie Uzcategui/Getty Images
House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy tweeted that the Justice Department, which would have had to approve the raid, "has reached an intolerable state of weaponized politicization."

"When Republicans take back the House, we will conduct immediate oversight of this department," McCarthy added. "Attorney General [Merrick] Garland, preserve your documents and clear your calendar."
Republicans argue that the quest for purloined documents wasn't a sufficient imperative for such an extraordinary search.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a potential Trump opponent in the 2024 presidential primary, called the raid "another escalation in the weaponization of federal agencies against the Regime's political opponents, while people like Hunter Biden get treated with kid gloves."
Keep in mind: We know little definitively here. Unknown:

Why this raid and why now?
What does the FBI know to justify it?
Who approved it, and why?
What did agents seek, and what did they actually find?
Will it lead to charges against the former president?
The bottom line: These investigations are top secret. So more likely than not, we won't get the full picture any time soon.

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:46 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:36 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:24 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:29 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:04 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:48 pmThanks for clearing up where you stand politically. Sounds like you identify more with the Democratic Party these days...

Do you identify with the current Republican Party, or any party in particular? What are your political ideologies?

I am a republican. You knew the answer to that, why even ask?

Was simply curious, no need to get upset over a simple question. I was also interested in what you believe in, and not just a label. Because Republicans have a wide range of ideologies and beliefs, and a ton of them have changed drastically over the past 6 years and past 60 years respectively. Democrats too, but their ideologies have changed more in the long term and less in the short term..

I am not a MAGA type. Fair-weather Republican.

So as a Fair-weather Republican, by definition, you change your fundamental beliefs simply by who is winning in the Republican party?

That's the MAGA types for the past 6+ years.

You're saying you don't have any solid foundational beliefs in how government should be run or what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country? You just rely on what the winning dude says we should do?

I, too, am interested in what 2000 means by "fair-weather Republican"...your interpretation certainly seems likely on the mark, but 2000 what say you?

Please explain your actual views. Fully.
To be helpful, I suggested a bunch of prompts, and Natty Boh has as well.
I like his add "and what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country?"

I vote for the person in the Republican Party that I think can best do the job and lead our country. I don't blindly follow what they do or so if it turns out that I was wrong and they weren't the best person for the job. Then I start look within my party to find who I think will be the best person to put forward in the next election. Despite what has been said on this forum, I happen to like a lot of the things DeSantis has done and the energy and ideas he brings to the table. Doesn't mean that he is who I am voting for, I just happen to like a lot of what he does. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he the threat to society that you have claimed he is? Far from it. This answer was not intended for you to lecture me on DeSantis, FYI. I don't need your opinion on him, I have seen it enough in my first few months here...

Correct, I've been clear about my view about DeSantis, which have only hardened the more I've watched him make decisions in office.

But, "I just happen to like a lot of what he does." seems quite reminiscent of folks' excuse about Trump "I like his policies", "I like his strength"...

Which policies and why?
In your case, what does he do that you like so much that you'd consider voting for him over, say a moderate Democrat?

Or are you GOP all the time, no matter what?

I asked a number of prompts...plenty of opportunity to fully explain your views.
This is a discussion site, you are being invited to discuss.

Expect pushback where people disagree. Again, discussion.

First, is anything I see going to change your mind about him? At all? He can relate to all different types of voters, especially the Latinx. He doesn't back down from a good fight, has strong conviction and plays well to his base. Are you going to vote for Biden? Or Kamala Harris?

I'd vote for either over DeSantis, and neither would be my preferred candidate in 2024. I don't like Harris, and Biden is too old IMO to be as sound in 2024-28 as he is in this stretch.

However, I see DeSantis as a competent fascist, but a fascist nevertheless and the GOP is primed to back anything he does in the interest of power.

So, it's back to voting for a piece of wood over the fascist, same calculation as I had in 2020.

I do agree that DeSantis can appeal to some hispanic voters, particularly those for whom "socialist" is really scary, for good reason...but what's scary IMO is an authoritarian, and right wing such are just as bad as left wing ones.

I don't see DeSantis as simply someone who doesn't back down from a fight, rather he's picking unnecessary ones for political gain, and worse, he's using powers of government as. bully that definitely signal the fascist tendencies...gotta remember, that's exactly what the "base" thinks they want, a "Christian nationalist".

So, no, I'm extremely unlikely to change my mind about DeSantis and the stakes at hand.

Give me Hogan or Cheney or...but not a fascist.

Thanks, guess we will agree to disagree here. I just don't see DeSantis as the same threat that you do. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just have other things that keep me up at night, Ron DeSantis not even remotely being one of them...

No need to personalize this as you being a "bad person" simply because you haven't focused on why DeSantis is a fascist threat yet. You have plenty of time!

Feel free to engage on what does keep you up at night and why...we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully.

Why do I have to prove to you he is not a Facist Threat? Because you say he is? That's laughable. You are not the authority on Ron DeSantis. Your opinion is in the minority in many, many places. This site not being one of them. Because you say he is, you won't take my opinions on him seriously until I prove to you that he is not a Facist threat? That's 3rd grade logic right there. There is nothing in the world I can say to you that will change your mind. Why bother? That's not discussion, that's you attempting to control the narrative. Not how it works in life. Maybe in FanLax Forums, but not in reality. Why do you attempt to do this? It's disingenuous behavior...

An odd interpretation.

Why is it odd?

Your challenging opinions where we understand why he has formed them while not wanting your opinions questioned or to even really articulate reasons in detail as to why you support him. You don’t have to do anything but then to insult (3rd grade logic is an insult just not one that resonates well here and certainly in this context with a guy who if anything is too compromising and thoughtful vs someone who’s arguing “because I like him and I know for certain without presenting any data or hard primary sources facts that I’m more in the right supported by some unprovable majority supporting me than you”).

You’ve also assumed someone won’t change their mind without even trying. Lazy or selfish in that you aren’t committed to the conversion you are very much actively engaging in.

It’s all just a silly post. Closer to the chronological logic accusation you made than to your intended target.

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I am confused by people who can't look past Trump to see the far larger potential implications of what just happened in FL. People like Putin send the federal police to raid their former political adversaries after they knocked them out of power, not US Presidents. Believe me, I firmly believe that no one, not even and perhaps especially not POTUS, is above the law. Heck, you could convince me that part of the price of having the honor of being POTUS is you should have a nice federally funded retirement - but put away where you can't have any more influence over policy.

With that said, if you are going to deploy federal law enforcement to raid the home of a former US president - particularly one that can (and is expected to) run for office again - you better be REALLY certain that what you are after is unprecedented. Short of treason, you should be aiming for something a lot less dramatic, if for no other reason than you need to be extremely prudent with the use of government power over your political opponents.

Appearances here matter. But, I suspect that they got the exact appearance they wanted - and now have their sound bite of the feds raiding Trump as "proof" of his guilt of something.

I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

Weren’t most of these people arguing for the implications on our country of
Trumps behavior for a while? It wasn’t him it was his destroying of our social infrastructure and systems for no clear benefit to society? Don’t you think those people are more aware and sensitive to this consideration since that was their concern to begin with?

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

You're acting like you've forgotten that Trump, Barr, and Giuliani went after Joe Biden and his family using the DoJ and FBI and CIA.....and that investigation is ongoing.

Did you forget? Trump asking Zelensky to launch a fake investigation into Hunter and Joe Biden's dealings in Ukraine?

Then Giuliani...who isn't even a Federal employee-----heading out to Ukraine, telling the public that he's looking for dirt on his political opponent and his son. And the public didn't care. Oh, and then Giuliani handed over Hunter's laptop to the press, acting like that was the most natural thing in the world. Biden fans (as if there are any) didn't complain, or threaten to storm DC.

Hunter (and his father, naturally) has been under FBI investigation for three years now, HooDat. And no one in the Dem party is whining about it....they're just letting the FBI do their job.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:53 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:46 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:36 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:24 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:29 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:04 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:48 pmThanks for clearing up where you stand politically. Sounds like you identify more with the Democratic Party these days...

Do you identify with the current Republican Party, or any party in particular? What are your political ideologies?

I am a republican. You knew the answer to that, why even ask?

Was simply curious, no need to get upset over a simple question. I was also interested in what you believe in, and not just a label. Because Republicans have a wide range of ideologies and beliefs, and a ton of them have changed drastically over the past 6 years and past 60 years respectively. Democrats too, but their ideologies have changed more in the long term and less in the short term..

I am not a MAGA type. Fair-weather Republican.

So as a Fair-weather Republican, by definition, you change your fundamental beliefs simply by who is winning in the Republican party?

That's the MAGA types for the past 6+ years.

You're saying you don't have any solid foundational beliefs in how government should be run or what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country? You just rely on what the winning dude says we should do?

I, too, am interested in what 2000 means by "fair-weather Republican"...your interpretation certainly seems likely on the mark, but 2000 what say you?

Please explain your actual views. Fully.
To be helpful, I suggested a bunch of prompts, and Natty Boh has as well.
I like his add "and what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country?"

I vote for the person in the Republican Party that I think can best do the job and lead our country. I don't blindly follow what they do or so if it turns out that I was wrong and they weren't the best person for the job. Then I start look within my party to find who I think will be the best person to put forward in the next election. Despite what has been said on this forum, I happen to like a lot of the things DeSantis has done and the energy and ideas he brings to the table. Doesn't mean that he is who I am voting for, I just happen to like a lot of what he does. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he the threat to society that you have claimed he is? Far from it. This answer was not intended for you to lecture me on DeSantis, FYI. I don't need your opinion on him, I have seen it enough in my first few months here...

Correct, I've been clear about my view about DeSantis, which have only hardened the more I've watched him make decisions in office.

But, "I just happen to like a lot of what he does." seems quite reminiscent of folks' excuse about Trump "I like his policies", "I like his strength"...

Which policies and why?
In your case, what does he do that you like so much that you'd consider voting for him over, say a moderate Democrat?

Or are you GOP all the time, no matter what?

I asked a number of prompts...plenty of opportunity to fully explain your views.
This is a discussion site, you are being invited to discuss.

Expect pushback where people disagree. Again, discussion.

First, is anything I see going to change your mind about him? At all? He can relate to all different types of voters, especially the Latinx. He doesn't back down from a good fight, has strong conviction and plays well to his base. Are you going to vote for Biden? Or Kamala Harris?

I'd vote for either over DeSantis, and neither would be my preferred candidate in 2024. I don't like Harris, and Biden is too old IMO to be as sound in 2024-28 as he is in this stretch.

However, I see DeSantis as a competent fascist, but a fascist nevertheless and the GOP is primed to back anything he does in the interest of power.

So, it's back to voting for a piece of wood over the fascist, same calculation as I had in 2020.

I do agree that DeSantis can appeal to some hispanic voters, particularly those for whom "socialist" is really scary, for good reason...but what's scary IMO is an authoritarian, and right wing such are just as bad as left wing ones.

I don't see DeSantis as simply someone who doesn't back down from a fight, rather he's picking unnecessary ones for political gain, and worse, he's using powers of government as. bully that definitely signal the fascist tendencies...gotta remember, that's exactly what the "base" thinks they want, a "Christian nationalist".

So, no, I'm extremely unlikely to change my mind about DeSantis and the stakes at hand.

Give me Hogan or Cheney or...but not a fascist.

Thanks, guess we will agree to disagree here. I just don't see DeSantis as the same threat that you do. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just have other things that keep me up at night, Ron DeSantis not even remotely being one of them...

No need to personalize this as you being a "bad person" simply because you haven't focused on why DeSantis is a fascist threat yet. You have plenty of time!

Feel free to engage on what does keep you up at night and why...we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully.

Why do I have to prove to you he is not a Facist Threat? Because you say he is? That's laughable. You are not the authority on Ron DeSantis. Your opinion is in the minority in many, many places. This site not being one of them. Because you say he is, you won't take my opinions on him seriously until I prove to you that he is not a Facist threat? That's 3rd grade logic right there. There is nothing in the world I can say to you that will change your mind. Why bother? That's not discussion, that's you attempting to control the narrative. Not how it works in life. Maybe in FanLax Forums, but not in reality. Why do you attempt to do this? It's disingenuous behavior...

An odd interpretation.

Why is it odd?

Your challenging opinions where we understand why he has formed them while not wanting your opinions questioned or to even really articulate reasons in detail as to why you support him. You don’t have to do anything but then to insult (3rd grade logic is an insult just not one that resonates well here and certainly in this context with a guy who if anything is too compromising and thoughtful vs someone who’s arguing “because I like him and I know for certain without presenting any data or hard primary sources facts that I’m more in the right supported by some unprovable majority supporting me than you”).

You’ve also assumed someone won’t change their mind without even trying. Lazy or selfish in that you aren’t committed to the conversion you are very much actively engaging in.

It’s all just a silly post. Closer to the chronological logic accusation you made than to your intended target.

Word salad. He doesn't want my opinion for any other reason then he knows it doesn't jive with his political narrative and it bothers him. You seem to get really bothered by my posts. Not my intention whatsoever. Find something else to be bothered about.

Or don’t bother trying to understand. You don’t have to do anything including eating a salad. (Which in my equal opinion is a dumb term and useless)

And stfu about telling me what to do. It won’t get you what you want.

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:00 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

You're acting like you've forgotten that Trump, Barr, and Giuliani went after Joe Biden and his family using the DoJ and FBI and CIA.....and that investigation is ongoing.

Did you forget? Trump asking Zelensky to launch a fake investigation into Hunter and Joe Biden's dealings in Ukraine?

Then Giuliani...who isn't even a Federal employee-----heading out to Ukraine, telling the public that he's looking for dirt on his political opponent and his son. And the public didn't care. Oh, and then Giuliani handed over Hunter's laptop to the press, acting like that was the most natural thing in the world. Biden fans (as if there are any) didn't complain, or threaten to storm DC.

Hunter (and his father, naturally) has been under FBI investigation for three years now, HooDat. And no one in the Dem party is whining about it....they're just letting the FBI do their job.

No I'm not forgetting. Trump made many feeble, and I think feigned, attempts at going after the Dems. But for all his mucking up crowds to chant "lock her up" he never even tried. Feds never did raid the homes of Biden (Hunter or Joe), or even Hillary for that matter.

But if you want to get into whataboutism - Biden fans didn't need to threaten to storm DC, because the FBI and the Press were "nothing to see here"-ing the entire thing. In the end, Hunter's laptop is sad. I don't think pushing it would have been a winning strategy anyway. Far more interesting, and even more ignored is fact that everyone know China and the Ukraine had made millions of dollars in payments to a sitting Senator/VP's son for very unclear services rendered and no one cared......

It occurs to me that I must not have been clear. I am not suggesting that Trump is immune from the law. It was the tactics used that I am saying were potentially more dramatic than they needed to be.

I am not sure the payments from China are being “ignored” as much as not considered important enough yet until it is shown that these payments are leading back to either the pockets or at least influencing his father as President.

Apart from the conservative noise media machine speculating there has been no real evidence that is both clear and convincing. Including the laptop of which the handling by third parties have made trusting everything found there very suspect.

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:36 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:24 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:29 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:04 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:48 pmThanks for clearing up where you stand politically. Sounds like you identify more with the Democratic Party these days...

Do you identify with the current Republican Party, or any party in particular? What are your political ideologies?

I am a republican. You knew the answer to that, why even ask?

Was simply curious, no need to get upset over a simple question. I was also interested in what you believe in, and not just a label. Because Republicans have a wide range of ideologies and beliefs, and a ton of them have changed drastically over the past 6 years and past 60 years respectively. Democrats too, but their ideologies have changed more in the long term and less in the short term..

I am not a MAGA type. Fair-weather Republican.

So as a Fair-weather Republican, by definition, you change your fundamental beliefs simply by who is winning in the Republican party?

That's the MAGA types for the past 6+ years.

You're saying you don't have any solid foundational beliefs in how government should be run or what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country? You just rely on what the winning dude says we should do?

I, too, am interested in what 2000 means by "fair-weather Republican"...your interpretation certainly seems likely on the mark, but 2000 what say you?

Please explain your actual views. Fully.
To be helpful, I suggested a bunch of prompts, and Natty Boh has as well.
I like his add "and what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country?"

I vote for the person in the Republican Party that I think can best do the job and lead our country. I don't blindly follow what they do or so if it turns out that I was wrong and they weren't the best person for the job. Then I start look within my party to find who I think will be the best person to put forward in the next election. Despite what has been said on this forum, I happen to like a lot of the things DeSantis has done and the energy and ideas he brings to the table. Doesn't mean that he is who I am voting for, I just happen to like a lot of what he does. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he the threat to society that you have claimed he is? Far from it. This answer was not intended for you to lecture me on DeSantis, FYI. I don't need your opinion on him, I have seen it enough in my first few months here...

Correct, I've been clear about my view about DeSantis, which have only hardened the more I've watched him make decisions in office.

But, "I just happen to like a lot of what he does." seems quite reminiscent of folks' excuse about Trump "I like his policies", "I like his strength"...

Which policies and why?
In your case, what does he do that you like so much that you'd consider voting for him over, say a moderate Democrat?

Or are you GOP all the time, no matter what?

I asked a number of prompts...plenty of opportunity to fully explain your views.
This is a discussion site, you are being invited to discuss.

Expect pushback where people disagree. Again, discussion.

First, is anything I see going to change your mind about him? At all? He can relate to all different types of voters, especially the Latinx. He doesn't back down from a good fight, has strong conviction and plays well to his base. Are you going to vote for Biden? Or Kamala Harris?

I'd vote for either over DeSantis, and neither would be my preferred candidate in 2024. I don't like Harris, and Biden is too old IMO to be as sound in 2024-28 as he is in this stretch.

However, I see DeSantis as a competent fascist, but a fascist nevertheless and the GOP is primed to back anything he does in the interest of power.

So, it's back to voting for a piece of wood over the fascist, same calculation as I had in 2020.

I do agree that DeSantis can appeal to some hispanic voters, particularly those for whom "socialist" is really scary, for good reason...but what's scary IMO is an authoritarian, and right wing such are just as bad as left wing ones.

I don't see DeSantis as simply someone who doesn't back down from a fight, rather he's picking unnecessary ones for political gain, and worse, he's using powers of government as. bully that definitely signal the fascist tendencies...gotta remember, that's exactly what the "base" thinks they want, a "Christian nationalist".

So, no, I'm extremely unlikely to change my mind about DeSantis and the stakes at hand.

Give me Hogan or Cheney or...but not a fascist.

Thanks, guess we will agree to disagree here. I just don't see DeSantis as the same threat that you do. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just have other things that keep me up at night, Ron DeSantis not even remotely being one of them...

No need to personalize this as you being a "bad person" simply because you haven't focused on why DeSantis is a fascist threat yet. You have plenty of time!

Feel free to engage on what does keep you up at night and why...we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully.

Why do I have to prove to you he is not a Facist Threat? Because you say he is? That's laughable. You are not the authority on Ron DeSantis. Your opinion is in the minority in many, many places. This site not being one of them. Because you say he is, you won't take my opinions on him seriously until I prove to you that he is not a Facist threat? That's 3rd grade logic right there. There is nothing in the world I can say to you that will change your mind. Why bother? That's not discussion, that's you attempting to control the narrative. Not how it works in life. Maybe in FanLax Forums, but not in reality. Why do you attempt to do this? It's disingenuous behavior...

How do get any of that from my polite post??

You do understand what a wink emoji is, right?

First of all, I never suggested that you are a bad person (you pulled that out of the air)...I've simply been very clear, and explained, why I see the threat from DeSantis amidst the current demands of base GOP voters. I don't assume you are a bad person simply because you don't agree, and I joked that you just haven't focused yet and that you have plenty of time to do so...wink emoji...

I then invited you to explain what does keep you up at night, (if not DeSantis). I have no idea what concerns you and why, and I'm not going to make assumptions. I merely invited you to participate....including that "we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully".

And you decide to flame at me in response?

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:21 pm It occurs to me that I must not have been clear. I am not suggesting that Trump is immune from the law. It was the tactics used that I am saying were potentially more dramatic than they needed to be.

Great. So tell me what the tactics "needed to be".

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:21 pm It occurs to me that I must not have been clear. I am not suggesting that Trump is immune from the law. It was the tactics used that I am saying were potentially more dramatic than they needed to be.

Of course, they might well have been entirely necessary, right?

As to dramatic, let's note that the media wasn't tipped off by DOJ/FBI or anyone else to be there when the FBI arrived. It took all day before the media found out and that was only because Trump squawked about it.

So, surely if the goal was to be dramatic, they could have done this differently.

Let's also note that the FBI notified the Secret Service in advance who properly facilitated their access.

And, of course, that a judge was persuaded (as well as all the folks at FBI and DOJ that needed to approve), that there was probable cause that a crime was committed, that the evidence was where they needed to go, and that there was no other means to get it without risk of destruction, etc.

Remember, they'd been demanding these documents and materials back for nearly a year and a half, including in June when they had come to the location to discuss further.

Now, here's speculation: it's entirely likely that the DOJ/FBI had credible information that Trump had lied about what he still had and that he still had was of such importance as to be way beyond the pale...right now the reporting is that the materials retrieved include information at a security classification level so high that it can't even be characterized without risk.

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:21 pm It occurs to me that I must not have been clear. I am not suggesting that Trump is immune from the law. It was the tactics used that I am saying were potentially more dramatic than they needed to be.

The only people talking in this case are the former DOPUS and his supporters and the media.

DoJ has not said anything in public about this and you are not likely to see them say anything going forward until such time as they reveal an indictment or a closure of the case.

Former DOPUS has a copy of the warrant, which will include what they searched for and what crimes they believe were broken. He can release it whenever he wants including showing it to Gym Jordan (who demanded to see it). Wonder why they aren't doing that?

Lastly, raided is also the former DOPUS' description of the event. Actually, executing a search warrant is not a raid but rather a court approved process to obtain evidence from an uncooperative source.

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:19 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:00 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

You're acting like you've forgotten that Trump, Barr, and Giuliani went after Joe Biden and his family using the DoJ and FBI and CIA.....and that investigation is ongoing.

Did you forget? Trump asking Zelensky to launch a fake investigation into Hunter and Joe Biden's dealings in Ukraine?

Then Giuliani...who isn't even a Federal employee-----heading out to Ukraine, telling the public that he's looking for dirt on his political opponent and his son. And the public didn't care. Oh, and then Giuliani handed over Hunter's laptop to the press, acting like that was the most natural thing in the world. Biden fans (as if there are any) didn't complain, or threaten to storm DC.

Hunter (and his father, naturally) has been under FBI investigation for three years now, HooDat. And no one in the Dem party is whining about it....they're just letting the FBI do their job.

No I'm not forgetting. Trump made many feeble, and I think feigned, attempts at going after the Dems. But for all his mucking up crowds to chant "lock her up" he never even tried. Feds never did raid the homes of Biden (Hunter or Joe), or even Hillary for that matter.

But if you want to get into whataboutism - Biden fans didn't need to threaten to storm DC, because the FBI and the Press were "nothing to see here"-ing the entire thing. In the end, Hunter's laptop is sad. I don't think pushing it would have been a winning strategy anyway. Far more interesting, and even more ignored is fact that everyone know China and the Ukraine had made millions of dollars in payments to a sitting Senator/VP's son for very unclear services rendered and no one cared......

mmmm, seems to me that a whole lot of right wing media and their viewers "cared".

You do realize that it's incredibly inappropriate for a person with the POTUS' authority to dictate to DOJ/FBI who they should investigate and who they should not, right? And that includes a candidate for such office, right?

Indeed, DOJ/FBI leadership should assiduously reject any such pressure, if applied. We know that Trump did try to apply various such inappropriate pressures, but was rebuffed by the system...imagine a competent fascist engineering the rebuild of the FB and DOJ with only loyalists, purging out any career professionals unwilling to be swear loyalty to the single man in the White House?

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:21 pm It occurs to me that I must not have been clear. I am not suggesting that Trump is immune from the law. It was the tactics used that I am saying were potentially more dramatic than they needed to be.

I got your point, and you're not wrong.....but TeamTrump ALREADY broke this rule by using the FBI, DoJ and CIA to go after Joe and his family.

You don't get to cheer for that, and then complain when the tables are turned.

Remember, Trump was impeached for using the power of his office to go after his political rival with the Zelensky call.

What was the Republican reaction to Trump doing this? And I'm talking Republicans in Congress, Republican voters, and Republican on this very forum?


That's right: they called Trump's abuse of power a nothing burger.

These people have ZERO standing in complaining about Trump's office getting searched, sorry. They had their chance to complain about abuse of power.

Not only did the tell us that it wasn't an abuse of power----they told us in no uncertain terms that what Trump did was no big deal.

So here's the bed they made: they don't get to complain now that it's their turn.

And as you point out, this ASSUMES that this is all Biden's doing. And I bet it isn't.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:48 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:19 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:00 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am I don't care what your party of choice might be - this use of Presidential power should concern you. And yes it is Presidential power that was deployed - "notified" or not, the FBI is part of the Executive Branch and therefore reports to the POTUS. They are HIS cops.

You're acting like you've forgotten that Trump, Barr, and Giuliani went after Joe Biden and his family using the DoJ and FBI and CIA.....and that investigation is ongoing.

Did you forget? Trump asking Zelensky to launch a fake investigation into Hunter and Joe Biden's dealings in Ukraine?

Then Giuliani...who isn't even a Federal employee-----heading out to Ukraine, telling the public that he's looking for dirt on his political opponent and his son. And the public didn't care. Oh, and then Giuliani handed over Hunter's laptop to the press, acting like that was the most natural thing in the world. Biden fans (as if there are any) didn't complain, or threaten to storm DC.

Hunter (and his father, naturally) has been under FBI investigation for three years now, HooDat. And no one in the Dem party is whining about it....they're just letting the FBI do their job.

No I'm not forgetting. Trump made many feeble, and I think feigned, attempts at going after the Dems. But for all his mucking up crowds to chant "lock her up" he never even tried. Feds never did raid the homes of Biden (Hunter or Joe), or even Hillary for that matter.

But if you want to get into whataboutism - Biden fans didn't need to threaten to storm DC, because the FBI and the Press were "nothing to see here"-ing the entire thing. In the end, Hunter's laptop is sad. I don't think pushing it would have been a winning strategy anyway. Far more interesting, and even more ignored is fact that everyone know China and the Ukraine had made millions of dollars in payments to a sitting Senator/VP's son for very unclear services rendered and no one cared......

mmmm, seems to me that a whole lot of right wing media and their viewers "cared".

You do realize that it's incredibly inappropriate for a person with the POTUS' authority to dictate to DOJ/FBI who they should investigate and who they should not, right? And that includes a candidate for such office, right?

Indeed, DOJ/FBI leadership should assiduously reject any such pressure, if applied. We know that Trump did try to apply various such inappropriate pressures, but was rebuffed by the system...imagine a competent fascist engineering the rebuild of the FB and DOJ with only loyalists, purging out any career professionals unwilling to be swear loyalty to the single man in the White House?

Is he officially a candidate for office? Not someone you see as a candidate, but someone who has said beyond the benefit of a doubt that he is in fact 100% running. Until then, he's not an official candidate...

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:02 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:53 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:46 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:13 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:54 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:36 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:59 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:09 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:33 am

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:01 am

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:24 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:19 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:29 pm

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:04 pm

LaxFan2000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:48 pmThanks for clearing up where you stand politically. Sounds like you identify more with the Democratic Party these days...

Do you identify with the current Republican Party, or any party in particular? What are your political ideologies?

I am a republican. You knew the answer to that, why even ask?

Was simply curious, no need to get upset over a simple question. I was also interested in what you believe in, and not just a label. Because Republicans have a wide range of ideologies and beliefs, and a ton of them have changed drastically over the past 6 years and past 60 years respectively. Democrats too, but their ideologies have changed more in the long term and less in the short term..

I am not a MAGA type. Fair-weather Republican.

So as a Fair-weather Republican, by definition, you change your fundamental beliefs simply by who is winning in the Republican party?

That's the MAGA types for the past 6+ years.

You're saying you don't have any solid foundational beliefs in how government should be run or what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country? You just rely on what the winning dude says we should do?

I, too, am interested in what 2000 means by "fair-weather Republican"...your interpretation certainly seems likely on the mark, but 2000 what say you?

Please explain your actual views. Fully.
To be helpful, I suggested a bunch of prompts, and Natty Boh has as well.
I like his add "and what freedoms and responsibilities Citizens should have in our country?"

I vote for the person in the Republican Party that I think can best do the job and lead our country. I don't blindly follow what they do or so if it turns out that I was wrong and they weren't the best person for the job. Then I start look within my party to find who I think will be the best person to put forward in the next election. Despite what has been said on this forum, I happen to like a lot of the things DeSantis has done and the energy and ideas he brings to the table. Doesn't mean that he is who I am voting for, I just happen to like a lot of what he does. Is he perfect? Far from it. Is he the threat to society that you have claimed he is? Far from it. This answer was not intended for you to lecture me on DeSantis, FYI. I don't need your opinion on him, I have seen it enough in my first few months here...

Correct, I've been clear about my view about DeSantis, which have only hardened the more I've watched him make decisions in office.

But, "I just happen to like a lot of what he does." seems quite reminiscent of folks' excuse about Trump "I like his policies", "I like his strength"...

Which policies and why?
In your case, what does he do that you like so much that you'd consider voting for him over, say a moderate Democrat?

Or are you GOP all the time, no matter what?

I asked a number of prompts...plenty of opportunity to fully explain your views.
This is a discussion site, you are being invited to discuss.

Expect pushback where people disagree. Again, discussion.

First, is anything I see going to change your mind about him? At all? He can relate to all different types of voters, especially the Latinx. He doesn't back down from a good fight, has strong conviction and plays well to his base. Are you going to vote for Biden? Or Kamala Harris?

I'd vote for either over DeSantis, and neither would be my preferred candidate in 2024. I don't like Harris, and Biden is too old IMO to be as sound in 2024-28 as he is in this stretch.

However, I see DeSantis as a competent fascist, but a fascist nevertheless and the GOP is primed to back anything he does in the interest of power.

So, it's back to voting for a piece of wood over the fascist, same calculation as I had in 2020.

I do agree that DeSantis can appeal to some hispanic voters, particularly those for whom "socialist" is really scary, for good reason...but what's scary IMO is an authoritarian, and right wing such are just as bad as left wing ones.

I don't see DeSantis as simply someone who doesn't back down from a fight, rather he's picking unnecessary ones for political gain, and worse, he's using powers of government as. bully that definitely signal the fascist tendencies...gotta remember, that's exactly what the "base" thinks they want, a "Christian nationalist".

So, no, I'm extremely unlikely to change my mind about DeSantis and the stakes at hand.

Give me Hogan or Cheney or...but not a fascist.

Thanks, guess we will agree to disagree here. I just don't see DeSantis as the same threat that you do. Doesn't make me a bad person. Just have other things that keep me up at night, Ron DeSantis not even remotely being one of them...

No need to personalize this as you being a "bad person" simply because you haven't focused on why DeSantis is a fascist threat yet. You have plenty of time!

Feel free to engage on what does keep you up at night and why...we can all learn from one another, but only if we explain ourselves fully.

Why do I have to prove to you he is not a Facist Threat? Because you say he is? That's laughable. You are not the authority on Ron DeSantis. Your opinion is in the minority in many, many places. This site not being one of them. Because you say he is, you won't take my opinions on him seriously until I prove to you that he is not a Facist threat? That's 3rd grade logic right there. There is nothing in the world I can say to you that will change your mind. Why bother? That's not discussion, that's you attempting to control the narrative. Not how it works in life. Maybe in FanLax Forums, but not in reality. Why do you attempt to do this? It's disingenuous behavior...

An odd interpretation.

Why is it odd?

Your challenging opinions where we understand why he has formed them while not wanting your opinions questioned or to even really articulate reasons in detail as to why you support him. You don’t have to do anything but then to insult (3rd grade logic is an insult just not one that resonates well here and certainly in this context with a guy who if anything is too compromising and thoughtful vs someone who’s arguing “because I like him and I know for certain without presenting any data or hard primary sources facts that I’m more in the right supported by some unprovable majority supporting me than you”).

You’ve also assumed someone won’t change their mind without even trying. Lazy or selfish in that you aren’t committed to the conversion you are very much actively engaging in.

It’s all just a silly post. Closer to the chronological logic accusation you made than to your intended target.

Word salad. He doesn't want my opinion for any other reason then he knows it doesn't jive with his political narrative and it bothers him. You seem to get really bothered by my posts. Not my intention whatsoever. Find something else to be bothered about.

Whoa, it bothers me not at all that you'd have a different opinion than me.
Millions of Americans do, so it's no surprise that participants on a middle/upper middle class sports thread would have some who disagree with my views.

I simply don't appreciate the personal attacks on other posters (including me) for simply expressing their views and then retreating to "you don't want to know, so I'm not going to tell you, because you won't agree with me anyway" nonsense.

You are invited to explain your views. Expect some disagreement.
All the rest of us expect to be disagreed with and called to discuss further...