Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Farfromgeneva]

Nothing will change until you defund the police unions. They are the problem. They have less than zero interest in reform. This is not new.

Seems like you and the others here that wish to eradicate public sector unions and especially police unions, will be disappointed by the man you just voted for.

https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/#

A co-sponsor of the original Employee Free Choice Act, Biden supports workers choosing to form a union if a majority signs authorization cards empowering a union to represent them. He will go beyond the PRO Act by allowing workers to use this process, called “card check,” as an initial option for forming a union, not merely an option granted when the employer has illegally interfered in the election process.

Provide a federal guarantee for public sector employees to bargain for better pay and benefits and the working conditions they deserve. Public sector unions provide the voice that workers – including educators, social workers, firefighters, and police officers – need to ensure they can serve their communities. And, public sector unions have been and continue to be an essential pathway to the middle class for workers of color and women, who disproportionately work in the public sector. Yet, in many states across the country, public sector workers do not have the right to bargain collectively. In states such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan, and Indiana, these rights are increasingly under attack. As president, Biden will establish a federal right to union organizing and collective bargaining for all public sector employees, and make it easier for those employees who serve our communities to both join a union and bargain. He will do so by fighting for and signing into law the Public Safety Employer-Employee Cooperation Act and Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act. He will work to ensure public sector workers, including public school educators, have a greater voice in the decisions that impact their students and their working conditions. He will also strongly encourage states to pursue expanded bargaining rights for state licensed and contracted workers, including child care workers and home health care workers. And, he will look for federal solutions that will protect these workers’ rights to organize and bargain collectively. Finally, he will reinstate the Obama-Biden rule, which the Trump Administration has since reversed, making it easier for independent-provider home care workers to join a union.

I have no problem with unions in general. I have a problem with treating unions differently depending on who they are. Police unions have the same problematic behaviors as all other unions. Allowing the inferior and problematic members to hide and not be culled. The union standing in the way of addressing those issues. The republicans seem to dislike teacher's unions for that reason (or that is the excuse they use). These same republicans refuse to see the same problem in police unions.

They both need to be taken down a few notches imo.

Nearly brought a storm into myself on Facebook last weekend. After seeing maybe the 12th or 15th post from a teacher about how hard their life is I had to point out families are getting divorced over kids learning from home,working from home, struggling to pay the bills and keep their parents alive (not me on this last one but know many in this circumstance), etc and therefor they should employ some empathy, be grateful they don’t have the same employment risk and shut the heck up. Had many supporters but these teachers have become entitled douchebags, many of whom I don’t want teaching my kids. (Police are viewer similarly by this guy but I am willing to distinguish between life threatening and complaining parents, but both are working civil service jobs, stressing the service, go do something else if you don’t like the conditions)

[Farfromgeneva]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Do you seriously think enough was done?

By the parents? No. There was discussion about having a 9 pm curfew for kids under 16. That never got off the ground.

Tell it to the single mom with two jobs, getting home at midnight.

Seems to be a common problem. Where is dad?

Committed suicide from the struggle to do what politicians have been promising is the American Dream since Ike and haven’t delivered?

[Typical Lax Dad]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

[Brooklyn]

Funny how right wingers hate SNAP benefits for the poor but happily approve of tax deductions for business meals. They hate to subsidize the poor but love to enrich the wealthy. Sure is dumb of them.

[a fan]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

Families used to be able to get by with one working spouse and 4 kids..... now you need two working spouses to support two kids if you want a decent standard of living.

[cradleandshoot]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

I bet my mom would not have given a F**k about how bad your family had it. She was too busy taking care of her own family. More people should try that approach sometime. The concept is called taking care of your own family first. once you take care of your own family then your free to help others. I can't tell you how many strays my sister brought into our house when i was growing up. When you were in our house as a guest you were fed and taken care of and my mom would listen to you and share her wisdom with you. This world could use more people like my mom TLD. My mom did have it hard, grew up in a family of abusive drunken Irish relatives. I know what her advice would have been to you, she gave it to me often, sometimes you need to shut up and listen. You can be poor that does not mean you have to act poor. Sad that so many people in America today don't understand what the difference is.

[cradleandshoot]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

Families used to be able to get by with one working spouse and 4 kids..... now you need two working spouses to support two kids if you want a decent standard of living.

My family always had 2 working parents. The old man worked his 50 hour weeks as a tool maker during the day. My worked the same shift for decades... 3pm to 11:30. Many nights my dad would drive downtown to pick her up at the phone company. Mom got all us kids up in the morning and then played the role of housewife. My sisters and brother were raised to be able to take care of ourselves. I've done this my whole damn life. People on this forum now want to try and tell me that in America today parents can't even feed their kids breakfast, or make sure that breakfast was available. What a bunch of bullchit. No wonder parents today think it is okay to let the schools feed your kids for you. Making breakfast for myself was something i did since grade school. I poured corn flakes into a bowl, poured the milk in the bowl and ate the cereal. I then rinsed the bowl out and put it back in the cupboard. Some mornings it was even harder, toast and jam. To this day i don't know how i survived such blatant neglect and child abuse.

[Typical Lax Dad]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

I bet my mom would not have given a F**k about how bad your family had it. She was too busy taking care of her own family. More people should try that approach sometime. The concept is called taking care of your own family first. once you take care of your own family then your free to help others. I can't tell you how many strays my sister brought into our house when i was growing up. When you were in our house as a guest you were fed and taken care of and my mom would listen to you and share her wisdom with you. This world could use more people like my mom TLD. My mom did have it hard, grew up in a family of abusive drunken Irish relatives. I know what her advice would have been to you, she gave it to me often, sometimes you need to shut up and listen. You can be poor that does not mean you have to act poor. Sad that so many people in America today don't understand what the difference is.

I didn’t know your mom posted here? If it doesn’t matter, don’t bring it up. What is acting poor?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

Families used to be able to get by with one working spouse and 4 kids..... now you need two working spouses to support two kids if you want a decent standard of living.

My family always had 2 working parents. The old man worked his 50 hour weeks as a tool maker during the day. My worked the same shift for decades... 3pm to 11:30. Many nights my dad would drive downtown to pick her up at the phone company. Mom got all us kids up in the morning and then played the role of housewife. My sisters and brother were raised to be able to take care of ourselves. I've done this my whole damn life. People on this forum now want to try and tell me that in America today parents can't even feed their kids breakfast, or make sure that breakfast was available. What a bunch of bullchit. No wonder parents today think it is okay to let the schools feed your kids for you. Making breakfast for myself was something i did since grade school. I poured corn flakes into a bowl, poured the milk in the bowl and ate the cereal. I then rinsed the bowl out and put it back in the cupboard. Some mornings it was even harder, toast and jam. To this day i don't know how i survived such blatant neglect and child abuse.

Sounds like you were wealthy to me. Stop complaining.

[cradleandshoot]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

Actually TLD, my sisters and brother did not have it hard. My dad had it tough, he lost 2 of his brothers one to cancer and one to a gangrene infection in his foot before he was 16. Then he dropped out of school to become an apprentice tool maker. Then he joined the army in 1943 and somehow lived to come back home. Yeah life was just a picnic for him. It took more than a few years before he stopped getting nervous and jerky at every thunderstorm that rolled in. It ain't about which of our families was poorer, it is about HOW they dealt with it.

[cradleandshoot]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

Families used to be able to get by with one working spouse and 4 kids..... now you need two working spouses to support two kids if you want a decent standard of living.

My family always had 2 working parents. The old man worked his 50 hour weeks as a tool maker during the day. My worked the same shift for decades... 3pm to 11:30. Many nights my dad would drive downtown to pick her up at the phone company. Mom got all us kids up in the morning and then played the role of housewife. My sisters and brother were raised to be able to take care of ourselves. I've done this my whole damn life. People on this forum now want to try and tell me that in America today parents can't even feed their kids breakfast, or make sure that breakfast was available. What a bunch of bullchit. No wonder parents today think it is okay to let the schools feed your kids for you. Making breakfast for myself was something i did since grade school. I poured corn flakes into a bowl, poured the milk in the bowl and ate the cereal. I then rinsed the bowl out and put it back in the cupboard. Some mornings it was even harder, toast and jam. To this day i don't know how i survived such blatant neglect and child abuse.

Sounds like you were wealthy to me. Stop complaining.

We were rich, that is why we enjoyed the powdered milk and the powdered eggs to supplement what my mom bought. My grandparents lived downstairs from us and we also prepared their meals for them. My grandma made the best split pea soup on the planet. The butchers use to practically give away ham bones. Mixed with split peas and carrots it was called depression food. It filled a lot of bellies and it was dirt cheap. Fried gizzards where popular too, most people today would not feed them to their cats. Ahhhh the good ole days when we were so rich and oblivious to how well we had it. I almost forgot to mention the wonderful smell of huge pots of hraut and potatoes my mom would cook up. We were so very lucky though, we were so rich we didn't have to be fed at school.

[Typical Lax Dad]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

Actually TLD, my sisters and brother did not have it hard. My dad had it tough, he lost 2 of his brothers one to cancer and one to a gangrene infection in his foot before he was 16. Then he dropped out of school to become an apprentice tool maker. Then he joined the army in 1943 and somehow lived to come back home. Yeah life was just a picnic for him. It took more than a few years before he stopped getting nervous and jerky at every thunderstorm that rolled in. It ain't about which of our families was poorer, it is about HOW they dealt with it.

Sounds like he had options. My Grandmother’s brother died young. Got hit in the head at 10 and lost his eye sight and was diminished mentally.....went out to the outhouse and lost his way back in snow and was found with frost bite on both hands. Fingers turned black and eventually fell off...never really recovered amd died not too long after that....speaking of gangrene....one of her siblings had it in the leg....it was bad when they saw the maggots. Nobody cares how bad your folks had it. “Poorer than thou” and “holier than thou” don’t go far with me. Keep it to yourself.

[Farfromgeneva]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

Families used to be able to get by with one working spouse and 4 kids..... now you need two working spouses to support two kids if you want a decent standard of living.

Same thing everyone got angry at me about before but the boomers and prior two generations (golden era?) stripper all the juice out of every asset and every business to live large. Demographics and that are the reason we are here

[cradleandshoot]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

I bet my mom would not have given a F**k about how bad your family had it. She was too busy taking care of her own family. More people should try that approach sometime. The concept is called taking care of your own family first. once you take care of your own family then your free to help others. I can't tell you how many strays my sister brought into our house when i was growing up. When you were in our house as a guest you were fed and taken care of and my mom would listen to you and share her wisdom with you. This world could use more people like my mom TLD. My mom did have it hard, grew up in a family of abusive drunken Irish relatives. I know what her advice would have been to you, she gave it to me often, sometimes you need to shut up and listen. You can be poor that does not mean you have to act poor. Sad that so many people in America today don't understand what the difference is.

I didn’t know your mom posted here? If it doesn’t matter, don’t bring it up. What is acting poor?

Holy chit, you can't possibly be that dense. When you act poor that means you throw your self respect and dignity to the curb. That is when you get your little cardboard sign and beg for money at the interstate off ramps. God bless... anything helps...

Got any vodka there buddy, for medicinal purposes only.

[kramerica.inc]

Working, feeding my kids and the neighbors. And donating to food banks from time to time. You?

The very existence of food banks tells you that the .gov isn't cutting it. Good on ya for donating.

I've noticed from Old Salt over the last few years that he recognizes the economic path that the Republican party has chosen over the last 50 years has failed working class Americans.

You seem to put a premium on keeping the nuclear family intact. Have you considered that Republican economic policies have ripped families apart?

Did you know that America has the highest rate of single parent homes in the 1st world?

Let's look at Republican economic policies (neo-Corporate Dems followed suit), and how that's made parenting harder:

-ripped unions apart
-NAFTA and other treaties forced US labor to compete with developing countries
-the idea of a minimum wage is insane to R's
-no health care from .gov, which has led to the most expensive health care in free world, taking money from parents
-the message if you want to make ends meet? Shut up and work harder. Now what does that do to parenting?
-child care is insanely expensive. And because of the "shut up and work harder" ideal? Both parents work

I could go on and on.......but has the above not occurred to you? Perhaps, as OS has suggested, Republicans need a major course correction if they believe in nuclear families?

It has indeed occurred to me. What the answer is, I don't know.
The lack of Nuclear families with 2 involved adults has been a large part in the societal problems we have today.
But the economic policies play a huge part in that- Consider the desire for politicians in congress and locally to keep people working and generating tax revenue. They offer $10k for a tax deduction for childcare per year. How kind! When it often costs thousands above that. But these politicians are otherwise forcing both parents to work by taxing and spending as much as they can get away with.
Remember we were told "It Takes a Village" because it has to, now. And the village isn't doing a real good job, compared to invested parents.
Americans in this country work way too hard for way too little.

[Typical Lax Dad]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

I bet my mom would not have given a F**k about how bad your family had it. She was too busy taking care of her own family. More people should try that approach sometime. The concept is called taking care of your own family first. once you take care of your own family then your free to help others. I can't tell you how many strays my sister brought into our house when i was growing up. When you were in our house as a guest you were fed and taken care of and my mom would listen to you and share her wisdom with you. This world could use more people like my mom TLD. My mom did have it hard, grew up in a family of abusive drunken Irish relatives. I know what her advice would have been to you, she gave it to me often, sometimes you need to shut up and listen. You can be poor that does not mean you have to act poor. Sad that so many people in America today don't understand what the difference is.

I didn’t know your mom posted here? If it doesn’t matter, don’t bring it up. What is acting poor?

Holy chit, you can't possibly be that dense. When you act poor that means you throw your self respect and dignity to the curb. That is when you get your little cardboard sign and beg for money at the interstate off ramps. God bless... anything helps...

Like wealthy suburban girls from Chevy Chase having sex in front of some crack dealers in DC acting poor? That kind of dignity and self respect?

[holmes435]

Luxury! We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

[cradleandshoot]

"Reform not Defund."

How does that happen in the real world?

Simple. You invest in people and communities BEFORE they become criminals. BEFORE it's too late.

Dude, they have been trying that here in Rochester for a very long time. It goes all the way back to the midnight basketball leagues that were meant to keep kids off the street at night. It starts with the PARENTS. You can invest everything you want to. If the parents are not controlling and supervising their own kids you are peeing in the wind. What parent in your neck of the woods does not know where their 12 year old is at 11pm? If the parents don't care who the hell else will?

Not in my neck of the woods but in Illinois....you know the one that drives a 17 year kid out of state and lets him stay out and eventually kills 2 people and shoots another. That is the kind of parent.

The kid had no business bringing a rifle into that situation. The fact he wanted to play the role of security guard was stupid. That is not the point I was making but I know where you are coming from. I am disturbed by 12 year olds selling crack on street corners at 10 pm.

The vast majority of people are.

Disturbed, but not doing anything about it.

Like a lot of things. What are you doing about childhood hunger?

paying my taxes. What are all these parents doing with the SNAP benefits given to them by the government to buy food for their kids? I'm only asking for a friend.

https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#benefits

The supplemental nutrition program in NYS provides 374 a month to buy food for your kids. That averages out to 85 dollars a week. That may not seem like a ton of money but there is something wrong when the parent is still letting their kid go to school hungry. I could buy 85 dollars a week in food for 2 kids and they could eat pretty darn good. Unless of course it is just more convenient to let your kid eat at school?

Avg American family of 4 spends $10k per year on food.

But you are correct that one can eat pretty darn well for an average of $3-4 a serving if making your meals at home using ingredients on sale at your grocery store (my company makes the technology of that easier).

But that assumes you live in an area where there is a good grocer, with fresh food with prices not jacked up. And that you have the transportation to get to that store. And that you have the space to store food, refrigeration and pantry, so that you can buy optimal sizes to save money. And that you have the resources to actually have pantry items, aren't living week to week.

In most of these situations we are discussing, there is no full line grocer with food at prices comparable to the suburbs, and there is little transportation. So, it often requires multiple bus trips just to go to such a store (delivery services don't serve these neighborhoods and don't accept SNAP). How many groceries can you carry on the bus? And you have two jobs as it is.

So...in these 'food deserts' of poverty, there are often lots of crappy bodegas with jacked up prices and little fresh food, but lots of access to fast food, fried chicken and fish, burgers, etc. "food swamps". Actually more like $4-5 a serving, eat out of a bag...any wonder why there's so much heart disease and diabetes in poor populations in America?

So, mom typically is scraping by, not feeding herself the last week of the month. Kids often needing to get their own food. And that's with school lunches.

Then let's feed all of the kids at schools and arrange for home delivered meals to all of the impoverished kids. We were not rich growing up MD. My mom was a fanatic when it came to making sure all of her kids were fed and taken care of. I do not want to insult you but your pathetic excuses here do not hold water to me. We were lucky, there was a Wegmans store near my house on Driving Park Ave. There was a Star Market several miles away that had cheaper groceries. I walked many miles with my mom to that store with her granny cart in tow. Your trying to feed me bullchit excuses. My mom taught me you do what you have to do for your kids. Why do you think she walked all those extra miles to save a couple of dollars? My mom grew up dirt poor during the worst years of the depression. What she taught me was you do whatever you have to do to take care of your family. That is the lesson I gave to my own kids. They knew where the food was and knew how to make their own breakfast and lunch. It was really complicated to pour the cereal in a bowl, put milk on it and pour yourself a glass of juice. It was equally as difficult to make their lunch. It involved bread and peanut butter and jelly and it got really tough when bologna was put into the mix. I guess I should have been charged with child endangerment, sometimes I bought twinkies for them. I was such a bad father teaching them to be self dependent and do things on their own. I guess I should have just let the village take care of them?

Here we go with “my family had it hard stories”.... I bet my parents grew up "poorer" than yours.

Actually TLD, my sisters and brother did not have it hard. My dad had it tough, he lost 2 of his brothers one to cancer and one to a gangrene infection in his foot before he was 16. Then he dropped out of school to become an apprentice tool maker. Then he joined the army in 1943 and somehow lived to come back home. Yeah life was just a picnic for him. It took more than a few years before he stopped getting nervous and jerky at every thunderstorm that rolled in. It ain't about which of our families was poorer, it is about HOW they dealt with it.

Sounds like he had options. My Grandmother’s brother died young. Got hit in the head at 10 and lost his eye sight and was diminished mentally.....went out to the outhouse and lost his way back in snow and was found with frost bite on both hands. Fingers turned black and eventually fell off...never really recovered amd died not too long after that....speaking of gangrene....one of her siblings had it in the leg....it was bad when they saw the maggots. Nobody cares how bad your folks had it. “Poorer than thou” and “holier than thou” don’t go far with me. Keep it to yourself.

Our life experiences make us who we are today. i will never keep it to myself. Why would you even say such a stupid and thoughtless thing? If i had not had the experiences i had growing up for better or worse, i would be much worse off today. Why is very simple, because i would not give a flip about anybody or anything. I'm 62 years old TLD and i am still trying to get better. I may fail miserably on most days but i still keep on trying. This is one of those times where we just have to disagree.

[cradleandshoot]

Luxury! We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

Those beatings did not do you any good. Your dad should have used the tried and true baseball bat to yer head. Those broken bottles just leave tiny little scratches. Damn you were lucky.