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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:10 pm
by seacoaster
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:37 pm
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:48 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:38 am
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:30 am
Nice. Out the whistleblower, and assassinate the character and service of a witness. Is there any bottom to these folks? What. About. The. Facts?
Or does membership in the Club require repetition that it was "a perfect call"? C'mon man.
The article is capturing the character via another service member who was higher ranking at the time. And your reply is "Is there any bottom". Sheesh....you immediately discredited the higher ranking service member....outta partisanship or just hate of Trump?
Read the article. It describes a guy joking around with other soldiers, and trying to find common ground with adversaries. LtC Hickman takes these conversations he appears to have overheard and transforms Vindman into a traitor. C'mon man, it's just gross and doesn't deserve your attention, You're better than this.
Why are yo picking sides if you know nothing about this guy?
"That which does not leave your lips, can not come back and bite you in the a$s."
Again, please GMAB. One of these guys listened in on the call, made a contemporaneous complaint to his boss and counsel about it, and provided testimony pursuant to a Congressional inquiry and, I think, valid subpoena. The other guy tweeted stuff from years ago about his view, from a limited interaction, of the other guy's character and motivations, and got himself in the right of center news-spin. As I say, you are better and more discerning than this. Please.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:13 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:06 pm
Volker said he suspected Burisma was concerned about its reputation for corruption and was looking to "spruce up its image" by having "prominent-named people on the board."
Occams razor agrees with this. Burisma at the time was looking for outside international investors, so it would make sense that they would want to show a friendlier face to the western world. Just like how Energy Secy Rick Perry was trying to get Naftogaz (another Uke energy company) to clean up its image by appointing several Americans as directors.
But Burisma biffed it. If you are trying to clean up your corrupt image, you should instead appoint some anonymous but well credentialed guy from the U.S. energy industry. Quite dumb to way overpay for an unqualified director who has a big conflict of interest.
More likely stupid than nefarious.
Yep...... Trying to show that they are not being corrupt by appointing a guy connected.... would love to see what that board looked like before they attempted to clean up their image
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm
by ggait
Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some qualified boring no-name industry guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt. Especially since the pay was way over the top.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper (regardless of the actual facts). Duh.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm
Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some boring no-name guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper. Duh.
Yep.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:43 pm
by Trinity
The Lev totally knows The Donald and he’s looking to sing. Pressure on Rudy?
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:09 pm
by ardilla secreta
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pm
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm
Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some boring no-name guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper. Duh.
Yep.
That’s why Joe needs to bury himself in the Rehoboth Beach sand like a cat log in life’s litter box.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:33 pm
by njbill
Trinity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:43 pm
The Lev totally knows The Donald and he’s looking to sing. Pressure on Rudy?
Hell hath no fury like a Lev scorned.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:37 pm
by seacoaster
“I understood that satisfying Mr. Giuliani was a condition for scheduling the White House visit.”
"I also recall some question as to whether the public statement could come from the newly appointed Ukrainian Prosecutor General, rather than from President Zelensky directly.
Soon thereafter, I came to understand that, in fact, the public statement would need to come directly from President Zelensky himself. I do not specifically recall how I learned this, but I believe that the information may have come either from Mr. Giuliani or from Ambassador Volker, who may have discussed this with Mr. Giuliani."
Sondland
Sounds just like the days of Dean Acheson and George Catlett Marshall, right?
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:41 pm
by ggait
Lev is angling for a deal to sing to Congress. Unlikely he will get that. At least not in the short term.
For him to sing, he'd need some kind of immunity deal from BOTH Congress and DOJ. Those are hard to come by. As you may recall, Ollie North got a limited immunity deal from Congress to testify about Iran Contra. His criminal case was later thrown out due to that immunity grant. Even though his Congressional immunity deal was not supposed to apply to his criminal case.
Most likely, Lev will show up in Congress and just take the 5th in the near future. Then he'll do his real bargaining in secret with DOJ. He could fatally finger Rudy in the criminal cases, but we wouldn't hear about that for a long time.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:46 pm
by njbill
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:23 pm
I actually think the Dems "attempt" to keep these depositions confidential is kinda silly. The stated reason is to prevent succeeding witnesses from knowing what prior witnesses said so they won't be able to line up their testimony.
NJ Bill -- Seems like in Sondland's case, the point was to snag the liars with subsequent truthful testimony (i.e. Taylor, Morrison).
Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released? Or maybe they had an idea what Sondland and Taylor were going to say ahead of time so they decided to call Sondland first. Regardless, it seems their approach worked in the case of Sondland.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:51 pm
by njbill
A singing Lev is Rudy’s worst nightmare. Well one of them. Rudy better have an undated complete pardon signed by Trump in his hip pocket to deploy (and backdate) in the event Trump chokes on a cheeseburger.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pm
by ggait
Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
Although he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:19 pm
by Trinity
Sondland now recalls beaucoup quid pro quo. Lindsey won’t read the transcript. Whaaaa
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:42 pm
by njbill
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pm
Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
Although he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.
Agreed. Hopefully the Dems will use staff counsel to do the key questioning in the open hearings and limit the nonsensical and worthless five minute Member questioning as much as possible.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:46 pm
by seacoaster
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pm
Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
Although he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.
Agreed; the guy seems like a real pro. The GOP questioning is almost meaningless.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:52 pm
by foreverlax
ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:33 pm
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:31 pm
Like I said, Occam's razor. Stupid more likely than nefarious.
Totally stupid on Burisma's part to hire Biden's kid. Just hire some boring no-name guy who is retired from Exxon or Chevron instead.
Totally stupid on Hunter and Joe to think the obvious conflict would not come back to bite them in the butt.
There's a reason you always avoid the "appearance" of impropriety. Because if it appears improper, many people will believe it actually is improper. Duh.
Yep.
That’s why Joe needs to bury himself in the Rehoboth Beach sand like a cat log in life’s litter box.
Hilarious!
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:15 pm
by ggait
Sondland first try: "There was no quid pro quo."
Second try: "In order to avoid jail time, I'd like to provide you with my refreshed recollection. There was a quid pro quo. In addition, I was the individual who personally delivered the quid pro quo demand to the Ukrainians."
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:16 pm
by jhu72
njbill wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:51 pm
A singing Lev is Rudy’s worst nightmare. Well one of them. Rudy better have an undated complete pardon signed by Trump in his hip pocket to deploy (and backdate) in the event Trump chokes on a cheeseburger.
You sweet talker you. Trump choking on a chesseburger is one of my fondest dreams.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:19 pm
by MDlaxfan76
njbill wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:42 pm
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:08 pm
Interesting theory. You certainly do want to get the liars on the record first. Maybe they were worried the subsequent witnesses would lie to square their testimony with the early liars if transcripts were released?
Although he is an ex-prosecutor, Schiff was smart enough to get a pro to do this job for him. The lead guy doing the questioning behind closed doors (Dan Goldman) spent 10 years at SDNY. The private process done so far is pretty much how a pro prosecutor would do it.
Agreed. Hopefully the Dems will use staff counsel to do the key questioning in the open hearings and limit the nonsensical and worthless five minute Member questioning as much as possible.
Apparently that's indeed what they passed, though both the Chairman and Ranking Member can go 45 minutes each if they want. But not a 5 minute rotation baloney.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:22 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:59 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:50 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:12 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:17 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:50 pm
This might make you feel better :
We're talking past each other. I have no doubt that someone in authority classified the calls.
That doesn't mean that those documents were classified according to the CFR's in question. For example, did the NSC regional director examine the document to ensure it followed the CFR's? Is the NSC regional director a lawyer? Did the NSC director
even read the transcripts?
We're discussing the law here. I found it telling that the lawyers brought up that EO surrounding the limitations of of classification before questioning. Why would he do that?
You should be asking yourself these questions, imho.
The individual calls do not need to be reviewed, other than to determine how high the classification level needs to be, since
ALL summaries of Presidential ph cons with foreign leaders are classified.
It's categorical. The NSC Director originated the document.
Sheesh, the moving into the server is what's unusual...again, can you not read?
We said that it may or not have had an upgrade in classification, but it was treated as if it had...we also said that could have been all innocent as driven snow, SOP for 100% of calls, but then again it might not..and if not, it could be criminal.
We don't have a conclusion as yet, just an open question.
Can't you read ? I posted NN's POLITICO article which laid it all out.
It's not unusual -- it happened with several previous foreign leader calls. Possibly all since the leak.
Using the NICE server is just a way to more securely store, limit access, & track access.
It was a Executive decision to store & distribute foreign leader calls via the NICE server.
It was a rational decision, like hand carrying, sign for, eyes only, & using a safe to store paper documents which were being copied & leaked by criminal spies in your work force during inter-office routing.
Classifying these calls S/NF is not over classification (no matter how often afan quotes the motherhood CFR).
They were not even TS, let alone SCI. (recall that you asked about the classification level used)
Yes, I can and do read...much of you say below is not substantiated.
Maybe every single call got the NICE server treatment. Maybe.
I sure as heck don't know, nor do you.
That's the whole point.