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Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:54 pm
by MDlaxfan76
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:41 am
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:38 am
Now that you have read it (first time ? ), where do you see currency transfer allocations? All I have evah seen was private contractors and the killing machine funds being held up (still a crime tho ) , Ukraine wasn't benefitting, certainly not directly. Academi/Erik Princes types are/were.
You're asking me for the bank transfer receipts?
So now your whataboutisms have reached dead Presidents?
You going to ask me if I complained about Kennedy's corruption?
No, just asking for which part of the bill/legislation, specifically the PDF link you provided, contains SPECIFIC language regarding currency transfers, of any kind. (IE: dollar amount, receipiants, etc ) Nothing on WHO the delay really hurt ? shocking centrist behavior.
Historically, couldn't one claim the Louisanna Purchase was illegal. Something for something.....funds withheld until
Bringing up JFK is really history, like the Jefferson foreign interference stuff.......pretty sure the US CONstitution was law
If you want to ignore history, context, while to impeach a President for same , certainly similar, you are un-American in my eyes. Just petty faciousist.
I mean, seriously. If others, certainly Trump, uttered " After my election, I'll have more flexibility " Flexibility, to do what? I could understand how someone (not me) could construe the meaning or reference to "my election", along with "I'll have more" remarks to mean; " after YOU help my election, I'll have more flexibility to ______________" geez, fill in the blank. Flexibility to lift sanctions. Flexibility to import NG from Russia? Flexibility to continue to purchase ROCKETS to (from) Russia? He did win, so any thing happen in the years 2013-2017 that his "flexibility" showed it's ugly head?
Fatty, I keep trying to ignore you, but come on, Louisiana Purchase?
This for that?
Yes, benefit for USA, dollars in exchange.
Benefit for POTUS personally, dollars in exchange...note the difference?
Please stop with the ridiculous.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:59 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:50 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:12 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:17 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:50 pm
This might make you feel better :
We're talking past each other. I have no doubt that someone in authority classified the calls.
That doesn't mean that those documents were classified according to the CFR's in question. For example, did the NSC regional director examine the document to ensure it followed the CFR's? Is the NSC regional director a lawyer? Did the NSC director
even read the transcripts?
We're discussing the law here. I found it telling that the lawyers brought up that EO surrounding the limitations of of classification before questioning. Why would he do that?
You should be asking yourself these questions, imho.
The individual calls do not need to be reviewed, other than to determine how high the classification level needs to be, since
ALL summaries of Presidential ph cons with foreign leaders are classified.
It's categorical. The NSC Director originated the document.
Sheesh, the moving into the server is what's unusual...again, can you not read?
We said that it may or not have had an upgrade in classification, but it was treated as if it had...we also said that could have been all innocent as driven snow, SOP for 100% of calls, but then again it might not..and if not, it could be criminal.
We don't have a conclusion as yet, just an open question.
Can't you read ? I posted NN's POLITICO article which laid it all out.
It's not unusual -- it happened with several previous foreign leader calls. Possibly all since the leak.
Using the NICE server is just a way to more securely store, limit access, & track access.
It was a Executive decision to store & distribute foreign leader calls via the NICE server.
It was a rational decision, like hand carrying, sign for, eyes only, & using a safe to store paper documents which were being copied & leaked by criminal spies in your work force during inter-office routing.
Classifying these calls S/NF is not over classification (no matter how often afan quotes the motherhood CFR).
They were not even TS, let alone SCI. (recall that you asked about the classification level used)
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:02 pm
by a fan
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
No, just asking for which part of the bill/legislation, specifically the PDF link you provided, contains SPECIFIC language regarding currency transfers, of any kind. (IE: dollar amount, receipiants, etc ) Nothing on WHO the delay really hurt ? shocking centrist behavior.
You will never get information on where the money landed. We never get that info, and you know it.
And you're quibbling over this because of Trump
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
Bringing up JFK is really history, like the Jefferson foreign interference stuff.......pretty sure the US CONstitution was law
If you want to ignore history, context, while to impeach a President for same , certainly similar, you are un-American in my eyes.
It's like talking to a child. (you called me UnAmerican)
I wasn't even alive when that happened. So I'm unAmerican because I can't jump into a time machine, and complain about JFK's corruption in real time? What the heck are you talking about??
You aren't this stupid. Stop acting like what you are asking of me and other posters makes even a little sense.
You're the guy who storms into a fundraiser for a Children's Hospital, and when they announce "we just raised $100K for the local hospital", you grab the mic and scream "why aren't you people doing anything about clean water???" And don't get why everyone is calling for security.
Just stop. No more whataboutisms. Address what is happening today. Right now.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:05 pm
by ABV 8.3%
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:54 pm
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:41 am
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:38 am
Now that you have read it (first time ? ), where do you see currency transfer allocations? All I have evah seen was private contractors and the killing machine funds being held up (still a crime tho ) , Ukraine wasn't benefitting, certainly not directly. Academi/Erik Princes types are/were.
You're asking me for the bank transfer receipts?
So now your whataboutisms have reached dead Presidents?
You going to ask me if I complained about Kennedy's corruption?
No, just asking for which part of the bill/legislation, specifically the PDF link you provided, contains SPECIFIC language regarding currency transfers, of any kind. (IE: dollar amount, receipiants, etc ) Nothing on WHO the delay really hurt ? shocking centrist behavior.
Historically, couldn't one claim the Louisanna Purchase was illegal. Something for something.....funds withheld until
Bringing up JFK is really history, like the Jefferson foreign interference stuff.......pretty sure the US CONstitution was law
If you want to ignore history, context, while to impeach a President for same , certainly similar, you are un-American in my eyes. Just petty faciousist.
I mean, seriously. If others, certainly Trump, uttered " After my election, I'll have more flexibility " Flexibility, to do what? I could understand how someone (not me) could construe the meaning or reference to "my election", along with "I'll have more" remarks to mean; " after YOU help my election, I'll have more flexibility to ______________" geez, fill in the blank. Flexibility to lift sanctions. Flexibility to import NG from Russia? Flexibility to continue to purchase ROCKETS to (from) Russia? He did win, so any thing happen in the years 2013-2017 that his "flexibility" showed it's ugly head?
Fatty, I keep trying to ignore you, but come on, Louisiana Purchase?
This for that?
Yes, benefit for USA, dollars in exchange.
Benefit for POTUS personally, dollars in exchange...note the difference?
Please stop with the ridiculous.
Anyone else notice the he completely ignored the more recent Obama reference. Flexibility.....to do what? For a CONservative, you don't seem to care .
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:07 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:05 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:54 pm
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:41 am
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:38 am
Now that you have read it (first time ? ), where do you see currency transfer allocations? All I have evah seen was private contractors and the killing machine funds being held up (still a crime tho ) , Ukraine wasn't benefitting, certainly not directly. Academi/Erik Princes types are/were.
You're asking me for the bank transfer receipts?
So now your whataboutisms have reached dead Presidents?
You going to ask me if I complained about Kennedy's corruption?
No, just asking for which part of the bill/legislation, specifically the PDF link you provided, contains SPECIFIC language regarding currency transfers, of any kind. (IE: dollar amount, receipiants, etc ) Nothing on WHO the delay really hurt ? shocking centrist behavior.
Historically, couldn't one claim the Louisanna Purchase was illegal. Something for something.....funds withheld until
Bringing up JFK is really history, like the Jefferson foreign interference stuff.......pretty sure the US CONstitution was law
If you want to ignore history, context, while to impeach a President for same , certainly similar, you are un-American in my eyes. Just petty faciousist.
I mean, seriously. If others, certainly Trump, uttered " After my election, I'll have more flexibility " Flexibility, to do what? I could understand how someone (not me) could construe the meaning or reference to "my election", along with "I'll have more" remarks to mean; " after YOU help my election, I'll have more flexibility to ______________" geez, fill in the blank. Flexibility to lift sanctions. Flexibility to import NG from Russia? Flexibility to continue to purchase ROCKETS to (from) Russia? He did win, so any thing happen in the years 2013-2017 that his "flexibility" showed it's ugly head?
Fatty, I keep trying to ignore you, but come on, Louisiana Purchase?
This for that?
Yes, benefit for USA, dollars in exchange.
Benefit for POTUS personally, dollars in exchange...note the difference?
Please stop with the ridiculous.
Anyone else notice the he completely ignored the more recent Obama reference. Flexibility.....to do what? For a CONservative, you don't seem to care .
Infatuated with that guy.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:11 pm
by ggait
The argument is weak because you ignore the part about the fact that a crime needs a victim. In the obvious example here, the owner the car dealership could be a President of Ukraine? If he does not feel he was coerced (your word) than who are you or I to say that he was? We cannot claim he was bribed if he does not feel he was bribed and was willing to put the sign in the lot regardless of the purchase of the cars.
As a proof element, you really can't take Zelensky's one on-the-spot statement as the sole determinative evidence. There's lots of other evidence that the Ukes knew they were being leveraged for many months.
Trump has Zelensky cornered on video and is squeezing him for something personally helpful him -- hey no pressure, right? Zelensky needs to keep bi-partisan USA support. So he's trying to please Trump, but also trying to stay on good terms with non-Trumpers too (since Trump may be gone in 12 months).
Also, recognize that Zelensky is talking publicly AFTER the aid has been released. Most likely interpretation is that Trump had leverage during the summer and early fall and was using it against the Ukes. But when the Giuliani/Trump plan blew up so publicly, Trump lost his leverage and grudgingly had to pay the money over. It is hard to keep running a bribery scheme after it has been publicly disclosed.
The WB disclosures were the best thing that could have happened to Zelensky.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:13 pm
by a fan
He's infatuated with anyone and anything that gives him what he thinks is an excuse to not criticize what's happening today, right now.
He thinks we're unAmerican for discussing 2019. We're "supposed" to discuss 1962. And we're dumb if we don't.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:15 pm
by ABV 8.3%
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:02 pm
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
No, just asking for which part of the bill/legislation, specifically the PDF link you provided, contains SPECIFIC language regarding currency transfers, of any kind. (IE: dollar amount, receipiants, etc ) Nothing on WHO the delay really hurt ? shocking centrist behavior.
You will never get information on where the money landed. We never get that info, and you know it.
And you're quibbling over this because of Trump
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:48 pm
Bringing up JFK is really history, like the Jefferson foreign interference stuff.......pretty sure the US CONstitution was law
If you want to ignore history, context, while to impeach a President for same , certainly similar, you are un-American in my eyes.
It's like talking to a child. (you called me UnAmerican)
I wasn't even alive when that happened. So I'm unAmerican because I can't jump into a time machine, and complain about JFK's corruption in real time? What the heck are you talking about??
You aren't this stupid. Stop acting like what you are asking of me and other posters makes even a little sense.
You're the guy who storms into a fundraiser for a Children's Hospital, and when they announce "we just raised $100K for the local hospital", you grab the mic and scream "why aren't you people doing anything about clean water???" And don't get why everyone is calling for security.
Just stop. No more whataboutisms. Address what is happening today. Right now.
See the " Flexible....to do what ? " comments. Was he openly asking for election help, in return for help, aka "flexibility" .
Law is mostly precedent ...or "whataboutism". We've been over this. So, yeah, if you want to ignore the, at very least "immoral" , activities of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T......or TARP............or...or ....or. It is YOU that must stop acting like a dismayed you know what. If the "court" won't allow actions, conversations, illegal trips (certainly personal gain ) that folks like our Supreme's take (who pays), ignoring the "reward" of untold millions for just their "story". OJ...in his prime slime time......couldn't get paid that much......move along, who cares. I like him. It's ok. It's not illegal.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:21 pm
by old salt
ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:11 pm
The argument is weak because you ignore the part about the fact that a crime needs a victim. In the obvious example here, the owner the car dealership could be a President of Ukraine? If he does not feel he was coerced (your word) than who are you or I to say that he was? We cannot claim he was bribed if he does not feel he was bribed and was willing to put the sign in the lot regardless of the purchase of the cars.
As a proof element, you really can't take Zelensky's one on-the-spot statement as the sole determinative evidence. There's lots of other evidence that the Ukes knew they were being leveraged for many months.
Trump has Zelensky cornered on video and is squeezing him for something personally helpful him -- hey no pressure, right? Zelensky needs to keep bi-partisan USA support. So he's trying to please Trump, but also trying to stay on good terms with non-Trumpers too (since Trump may be gone in 12 months).
Also, recognize that Zelensky is talking publicly AFTER the aid has been released. Most likely interpretation is that Trump had leverage during the summer and early fall and was using it against the Ukes. But when the Giuliani/Trump plan blew up so publicly, Trump lost his leverage and grudgingly had to pay the money over. It is hard to keep running a bribery scheme after it has been publicly disclosed.
The WB disclosures were the best thing that could have happened to Zelensky.
Sounds more like politics than criminal activity, but then this is the criminalization of politics.
Trump released the aid right after Sen Portman called & encouraged him to do it, before the Giuliani/Trump plan blew up so publicly.
Trump had until Sept 30, to release the aid.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:22 pm
by ABV 8.3%
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:13 pm
He's infatuated with anyone and anything that gives him what he thinks is an excuse to not criticize what's happening today, right now.
He thinks we're unAmerican for discussing 2019. We're "supposed" to discuss 1962. And we're dumb if we don't.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.........it's un-american to ignore the "flexibility" quoate and it's context, it's meaning, from 2012.
I think impeachment it's a pretty big deal. Clinton deserved it. He lied under oath.
The only folks infatuated with anyone is YOU guys and your hate, hate hate. For Trump. We all get it.
But to lambaste me because I scratch my head in bewilderment as to how no one cares a lick how often the very same quid pro couomo bridge happens. Starting with local politics. Clearly, you can't be this stupid to think that Billy Bulger nevah withheld district funds because HE wanted something. Nah, this stuff only happens on Hulu or netflix
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:24 pm
by ABV 8.3%
What did Wasser Man Schultz threaten the CapHill cop with? Anyone know if this guy has a job? Still alive? Or, maybe he works at a used car dealership.
Does the US CONstitution have language about impeaching members of the HOUSE?
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:25 pm
by a fan
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:15 pm
See the " Flexible....to do what ? " comments. Was he openly asking for election help, in return for help, aka "flexibility" .
Oh, I get it. He said the word "election". "Therefore", Obama did the same thing Trump did.
Got it. You're right. The only obvious thing to do now since Obama uttered the word "election", is to ignore anything and everything Trump does.
We good now? Let's you and I talk about 2012 from now on, and ignore 2019.
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:15 pm
Law is mostly precedent ...or "whataboutism". We've been over this. So, yeah, if you want to ignore the, at very least "immoral" , activities of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T.
Nope. What I want to do is laugh at your nonstop need to discuss Tacos when the thread is about Hamburgers.
It doesn't matter what the issue being discussed is. You ALWAYS want to discuss anything and everything but the topic at hand.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:26 pm
by a fan
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:22 pm
But to lambaste me because I scratch my head in bewilderment as to how no one cares a lick how often the very same quid pro couomo bridge happens. Starting with local politics. Clearly, you can't be this stupid to think that Billy Bulger nevah withheld district funds because HE wanted something. Nah, this stuff only happens on Hulu or netflix
Why are you bringing up Billy Bulger, and not Obama?
Why are you giving Obama a pass?
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:27 pm
by a fan
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:22 pm
Whoa, whoa, whoa.........it's un-american to ignore the "flexibility" quoate and it's context, it's meaning, from 2012.
Great. Let's impeach Obama for that. You have the keys to the time machine? I call shotgun!
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:35 pm
by runrussellrun
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:25 pm
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:15 pm
See the " Flexible....to do what ? " comments. Was he openly asking for election help, in return for help, aka "flexibility" .
Oh, I get it. He said the word "election". "Therefore", Obama did the same thing Trump did.
Got it. You're right. The only obvious thing to do now since Obama uttered the word "election", is to ignore anything and everything Trump does.
We good now? Let's you and I talk about 2012 from now on, and ignore 2019.
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:15 pm
Law is mostly precedent ...or "whataboutism". We've been over this. So, yeah, if you want to ignore the, at very least "immoral" , activities of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T.
Nope. What I want to do is laugh at your nonstop need to discuss Tacos when the thread is about Hamburgers.
It doesn't matter what the issue being discussed is. You ALWAYS want to discuss anything and everything but the topic at hand.
obfistcate on purpose, one doth think.......
.....if you and yours wanna ignore braggin joe biden getting the Ukraine AG fired, for WHATEVER reason........and withheld aid until that happened.....and for trump to wanna know about it......is an impeachable offense? It's laughable. THIS is what you are going with? Or the handful of traffic cones, with plenty of skeleton bones tucked into the shoe box in the closet, for the current lot.
You are just trying to rope a dope....the only dope is in my head (stomach actually )......and really, really think you got the scumbag. Guess what, you evah been involved with the legal system, especially where YOU were 100% in the right....and yet, it didn't matter. at all???
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:39 pm
by a fan
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:35 pm
....if you and yours wanna ignore braggin joe biden getting the Ukraine AG fired, for WHATEVER reason........and withheld aid until that happened.....and for trump to wanna know about it......is an impeachable offense? It's laughable. THIS is what you are going with? Or the handful of traffic cones, with plenty of skeleton bones tucked into the shoe box in the closet, for the current lot.
Biden? No, no, no. Why aren't you talking about Hillary's corruption? What's wrong with you?
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:39 pm
by runrussellrun
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:26 pm
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:22 pm
But to lambaste me because I scratch my head in bewilderment as to how no one cares a lick how often the very same quid pro couomo bridge happens. Starting with local politics. Clearly, you can't be this stupid to think that Billy Bulger nevah withheld district funds because HE wanted something. Nah, this stuff only happens on Hulu or netflix
Why are you bringing up Billy Bulger, and not Obama?
Why are you giving Obama a pass?
You know my point is I can bring up 100's of names.....and those are just the ones we know about. Christie closed traffic. He should have to run the NY marathon in 12 hours or less.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:44 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:47 pm
by runrussellrun
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:39 pm
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:35 pm
....if you and yours wanna ignore braggin joe biden getting the Ukraine AG fired, for WHATEVER reason........and withheld aid until that happened.....and for trump to wanna know about it......is an impeachable offense? It's laughable. THIS is what you are going with? Or the handful of traffic cones, with plenty of skeleton bones tucked into the shoe box in the closet, for the current lot.
Biden? No, no, no. Why aren't you talking about Hillary's corruption? What's wrong with you?
Corruption? Friends with someone who went to HIGH school with the Redskins owner Snider of mark. The guy was ALWAYS an arse wipe. For those that know tRump (I don't WANT to get to know him. Ivanka? ) I get it. Very, very unlikeable.
But, again, you are missing the point about trumps corruption and where's the proof. The greater NYC area, much like Harvey W. or even others, loved and adored Donald. Duh....money. When the masters of the universe (The Giving Pledge ) allow someone like Mike Milken, federal prison sentence and bilking millions from ma and pop middle Philly city, to enter it's club of HIGH powered folks.....it's tough to look where , for standards. Or morals.
Hillaryouse clinton is running for President. Soon, very, very soon. Before Thanks Giving. Oh, yes, just like that, she will make the holiday's about her.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Constitutional method to vacate an election
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:49 pm
by foreverlax
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:47 pm
Hillaryouse clinton is running for President. Soon, very, very soon. Before Thanks Giving. Oh, yes, just like that, she will make the holiday's about her.
Wanna bet?