All Things Russia & Ukraine

[PizzaSnake]

So by your logic, the longer this war drags on, the more Russians killed, the better ?

I'm telling you, as you very well know, if Trump was still President, you'd be lecturing me that we're taking the teeth out of Putin's war machine at a minimal cost.

You never bother reading what I'm writing. I've NEVER supported what Biden is doing over there. I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep had Biden done nothing.

All I've said is that Biden is between a rock and a hard place, and if (if) you believe we should help Ukraine, Biden has played his cards darn near perfect so far.

Maybe we'll get lucky & drive Putin from power, leaving the largest nuc arsenal in the world in the hands of an unstable regime that hates us because of all their sons we've killed. You're a genius.

Says the guy who told us that we HAD to go back in and take out Saddam.

After you and your pals thought it was a swell idea that we HAD

And everyone here knows perfectly well you supported Charlie Wilson's (Reagan) game of arming and training crews who would eventually pass on their US Military training to those who hit us on 9/11. We HAD to go into the ME according to you.

But sure, please lecture me about the consequences of Old Salt's interventions all around the world. We just HAD to wipe out Saddam and his forces, creating a massive power vacuum in the ME.

And propping up leaders in Afghanistan, because you think that's brilliant. Gee, I wonder if we'll have any blowback because of those choices.

Naaaaaaah. We only have to deal with consequences when Democrat Presidents make those choices. When those magic R's make these choices, nothing bad happens, no civilians die, and the cost of all of this is free. We pay for "Republican Wars" using grocery store coupons we clip out.

Sell this idiocy somewhere else. You have NEVER talked about consequences of our warmongering. You have NEVER talked about money we spend doing it. You have NEVER talked about civilian casualties. All you discuss is the mission. Until now. And everyone here knows why.

Sort of amusing, really. We did for the Islamisists what they could never have done - remove the Iraqi "puppet" and the "puppet state" we (Cheney and Rumsfeld) created to buttress the ME from the animus of the Iranian Revolutionary state created by our meddling in Iranian politics in the '50s.

Do they teach any history or critical thinking at the USNA? Or are these classes optional (participation points awarded)? I want a refund for OS's "education".

[Brooklyn]

9 year old Ukrainian Princess donates her long hair in order to finance protective helmet for a soldier:


https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/sta ... 0217491235

from this:


https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thum ... 4bEuSU.jpg


to this:


https://preview.redd.it/nine-year-old-o ... 00d14cda22

[DocBarrister]

This has been true since the breakup of the USSR.

This has certainly been true since Russia invaded Ukraine and raped, tortured, and slaughtered innocent Ukrainian men, women, and children.

Any assertion that Russia has a legitimate claim to Ukraine is nothing less than a statement of support for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

DocBarrister

[Brooklyn]

Any assertion that Russia has a legitimate claim to Ukraine is nothing less than a statement of support for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Same thing I said about Spain's claims about Catalonia. While the world condemns Putin they applauded the actions of the Falangists in Madrid when they invaded Barcelona and arrested democratically elected President Puigdemont. He was treated like a criminal when he deserves to be treated with the same dignity as any other elected official. Falangists (like their Fascist and Nazi puppet string masters) be damned to Hell where they belong.

[jhu72]

Putin's puppet governor killed in car bombing in eastern Ukraine. Clear revenge killing for his role in war crimes.

[a fan]

Putin's puppet governor killed in car bombing in eastern Ukraine. Clear revenge killing for his role in war crimes.

Said it from the word go: how does Putin think he's going to hold lands with unwilling occupants? And would YOU want to serve in these cities if you were a Russian?

[old salt]

There is nothing “stable” about Putin or his fascist regime.

What is stable about it?

His control of the world's largest arsenal of nuclear weapons, ...so far.

[jhu72]

Putin's puppet governor killed in car bombing in eastern Ukraine. Clear revenge killing for his role in war crimes.

Said it from the word go: how does Putin think he's going to hold lands with unwilling occupants? And would YOU want to serve in these cities if you were a Russian?

... I never did believe Putin could control it either. Would take millions of troops on the ground after winning the war, which he never could. I can't imagine any Russia soldier wanting to be sent to serve in Ukraine. They have wiped out the Wagner group apparently and the replacements are Russian criminals being sent from jail to the front.

Looks like the Ukrainians have found a way to go on the offensive. Traditional resistance tactics against a very weak occupier.

[MDlaxfan76]

Any assertion that Russia has a legitimate claim to Ukraine is nothing less than a statement of support for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Same thing I said about Spain's claims about Catalonia. While the world condemns Putin they applauded the actions of the Falangists in Madrid when they invaded Barcelona and arrested democratically elected President Puigdemont. He was treated like a criminal when he deserves to be treated with the same dignity as any other elected official. Falangists (like their Fascist and Nazi puppet string masters) be damned to Hell where they belong.

Except that Spain didn't collapse into separate, sovereign countries the way the Soviet Union did. Catalonia is and was part of Spain, under the Spanish Constitution.

It's one thing to argue that the Catalans should be able to self-determinedly separate from the rest of Spain, making much the same argument as did the southern states of the United States, it's another to equate Spain with the war criminal behavior of Putin invading an internationally recognized sovereign nation.

Not the "same thing".

[old salt]

So by your logic, the longer this war drags on, the more Russians killed, the better ?

I'm telling you, as you very well know, if Trump was still President, you'd be lecturing me that we're taking the teeth out of Putin's war machine at a minimal cost.
If Trump was still President, Putin would not have invaded. Russian troops did not begin mobilizing & massing on the border until after Trump lost the election. They did not invade until well after Biden's Afghan debacle.

You never bother reading what I'm writing. I've NEVER supported what Biden is doing over there. I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep had Biden done nothing.

All I've said is that Biden is between a rock and a hard place, and if (if) you believe we should help Ukraine, Biden has played his cards darn near perfect so far.
Biden should have let our EU allies take the lead, offering US support vis NATO. If we followed their lead there'd be a cease fire by now. We can't sustain this, over the long haul, without their increased participation & contributions. It's a EUropean war.

Maybe we'll get lucky & drive Putin from power, leaving the largest nuc arsenal in the world in the hands of an unstable regime that hates us because of all their sons we've killed. You're a genius.

Says the guy who told us that we HAD to go back in and take out Saddam.
You are still full of sh!t on this. I've told you repeatedly that in '91, I was with Jim Webb & Ron Smith regarding putting US forces ashore in the Persian Gulf. Guld War-I & all our other wars flowed from that, including our 9-11 war in Afghanistan. Once we were committed, I was committed to win. *

After you and your pals thought it was a swell idea that we HAD to bankroll Saddam to provide a counter to Iran. And why did we need that "counter to Iran"? Well, because we thought it would be great to install a puppet in Iran "because" guys like you think we MUST have cheap oil, and have "no other choices" blah, blah, blah, see above *

And everyone here knows perfectly well you supported Charlie Wilson's (Reagan) game of arming and training crews who would eventually pass on their US Military training to those who hit us on 9/11. We HAD to go into the ME according to you. Oil. No other choice.
Charlie Wilson's war was in Afghanistan in the '80's. It had nothing to do with ME oil. Clinton had numerous opportunities to take out OBL after the USS Cole & embassy bombings, well before 9-11.

But sure, please lecture me about the consequences of Old Salt's interventions all around the world. We just HAD to wipe out Saddam and his forces, creating a massive power vacuum in the ME.
blah, blah, see above *

And propping up leaders in Afghanistan, because you think that's brilliant. Gee, I wonder if we'll have any blowback because of those choices.
blah, blah, see above *

Naaaaaaah. We only have to deal with consequences when Democrat Presidents make those choices. When those magic R's make these choices, nothing bad happens, no civilians die, and the cost of all of this is free. We pay for "Republican Wars" using grocery store coupons we clip out.

Sell this idiocy somewhere else. You have NEVER talked about consequences of our warmongering. You have NEVER talked about money we spend doing it. You have NEVER talked about civilian casualties. All you discuss is the mission. Until now. And everyone here knows why.
blah, blah, see above *

[jhu72]

Spain is a strange country. The Catalans do have an autonomous home rule arrangement with the rest of the country. The Catalans have seen themselves as something separate (on and off) since the 1400s. They are also the wealthiest province that is exporting money to the poorer regions and there are a lot of those. If you look at the population distribution, apart from Madrid, the country's interior is very very low population density, all the population is within 100 km of the coast. Interior is pretty poor.

[CU88]

If Trump was still President, Putin would not have invaded.

Such certainty!

[old salt]

You have cheered every war, every intervention, and every "let's arm these guys" we've done, outside of the Gulf War.

Wrong. -- Libya ? Syria ? (no fly zone & arming Syrian Arab rebels).

The rest if the wars flowed from Gulf War-I, which I opposed.

[old salt]

Spain is a strange country. The Catalans do have an autonomous home rule arrangement with the rest of the country. The Catalans have seen themselves as something separate (on and off) since the 1400s. They are also the wealthiest province that is exporting money to the poorer regions and there are a lot of those. If you look at the population distribution, apart from Madrid, the country's interior is very very low population density, all the population is within 100 km of the coast. Interior is pretty poor.

...& then there's the Basque.

The Catalan autonomy model is what the Ukrainian-Russian separatists in the Donbas wanted via the Minsk process.
Likewise for the Crimean Russians (& they wanted water supplied via the canal from the Dnipro).

That, along with Ukrainian neutrality (non-NATO), was the potential settlement from the Minsk process.

[Brooklyn]

Any assertion that Russia has a legitimate claim to Ukraine is nothing less than a statement of support for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Same thing I said about Spain's claims about Catalonia. While the world condemns Putin they applauded the actions of the Falangists in Madrid when they invaded Barcelona and arrested democratically elected President Puigdemont. He was treated like a criminal when he deserves to be treated with the same dignity as any other elected official. Falangists (like their Fascist and Nazi puppet string masters) be damned to Hell where they belong.

Except that Spain didn't collapse into separate, sovereign countries the way the Soviet Union did. Catalonia is and was part of Spain, under the Spanish Constitution.

It's one thing to argue that the Catalans should be able to self-determinedly separate from the rest of Spain, making much the same argument as did the southern states of the United States, it's another to equate Spain with the war criminal behavior of Putin invading an internationally recognized sovereign nation.

Not the "same thing".

Russia and Ukraine were united by the 11th century because they have the same origin. Both claim some Prince Yuroslav or whatever the hell his name was as their Founding Father. Catalonia existed before Spain did. Different language, culture. Did not "unite" with Spain until centuries later and only because of war. In fact Spain was separate, sovereign countries called Emirates until the Catholic monarchies invaded and killed off the Muslims and Jews. Catalonians have more right to claim freedom than do Ukrainians. This is not to say that Ukes don't have the right to make such a claim. Only that Catalonians have more such right since their ethnicity and language is so much more different than that which exists in Russia-Ukraine. Since Europe and the USA feel so compelled to get involved in one such war, it should be consistent in the other conflict as well.

[jhu72]

Spain is a strange country. The Catalans do have an autonomous home rule arrangement with the rest of the country. The Catalans have seen themselves as something separate (on and off) since the 1400s. They are also the wealthiest province that is exporting money to the poorer regions and there are a lot of those. If you look at the population distribution, apart from Madrid, the country's interior is very very low population density, all the population is within 100 km of the coast. Interior is pretty poor.

...& then there's the Basque.

The Catalan autonomy model is what the Ukrainian-Russian separatists in the Donbas wanted via the Minsk process.
Likewise for the Crimean Russians (& they wanted water supplied via the canal from the Dnipro).

That, along with Ukrainian neutrality (non-NATO), was the potential settlement from the Minsk process.

... and the Basque straddling the boarder with France in the west.

... it appears neither the Catalans nor the Spanish are totally happy with that arrangement given 500-600 years of head butting. It is clear the Ukrainians aren't willing to accept that arrangement either.

[a fan]

If Trump was still President, Putin would not have invaded.

Why? Republican tough guy nonsense. But by all means, tell us why?

You say you're not a Trump supporter, yet here you are, riding Trumpy hard, telling us how tough his Little R is, and acting like Putin was scared of tough-guy Trump.

Meanwhile, Biden has laid bare allllllll you and National Review and VDH's pumping up of Putin as a genius. That he was playing chess, and Obama was playing checkers. Biden has emasculated you and your Republican buddies, showing you not only are Dem Presidents just fine with waging war (I love that your'e

Biden should have let our EU allies take the lead, offering US support vis NATO. If we followed their lead there'd be a cease fire by now.

If we had done that, as you yourself claimed, Putin would have control of the whole country. You keep playing this stupid, petty, childish game where your claiming your path would lead to a perfect outcome....where Putin would drop his weapons and run away if we just gave him the chance. Why? R's and D's. It's just dumb. Stop it at some point, you know? Naaah. F that. Keep it up. We're dazzled by your evaluations here.

We can't sustain this, over the long haul, without their increased participation & contributions. It's a EUropean war

We've got 80,000 troops in Japan and S Korea. Sucking up about $10 billion a year.....since the Korean freaking war. Then there's the base you think we should STILL have in Afghanistan, and if you had your way, we'd still be Iraq because Obama would never have left.

But sure "we can't sustain" a war that's not even 12 months old. Ah, Old Salt. Who do you think you're kidding?

You are still full of sh!t on this. I've told you repeatedly that in '91, I was with Jim Webb & Ron Smith regarding putting US forces ashore in the Persian Gulf. Guld War-I & all our other wars flowed from that, including our 9-11 war in Afghanistan. Once we were committed, I was committed to win. *

Committed to win WHAT? What were you hoping you'd win? Yep, you said that about the initial invasion. But they part you're desperate to ignore and keep playing your silly game is that you said we HAD to go back in. No choice. Just like all the other oil adventures you said we HAD to do. You're on the hook for this. You don't get to pretend like you didn't just tell me this------but that you MOCKED ME and told me I was a "revisionist" if I told you that we ALWAYS have choices.

And lo and behold, all these years later, you're trying to lecture me that we have choices in Ukraine.

Yep. You're right. Can you pass this information along to the Old Salt of the past ten years who mocked me for telling him this very fact? I'd appreciate it.

blah, blah, blah, see above *

Yep. There it is again. We had no choice but to bankroll Saddam, and get cheap oil.

Charlie Wilson's war was in Afghanistan in the '80's. It had nothing to do with ME oil. Clinton had numerous opportunities to take out OBL after the USS Cole & embassy bombings, well before 9-11.

So as usual, you put it at the feet of a Democrat, instead of the guy who created OBL in the first place.....Reagan.

Please, keep Blah Blah Blahing. Tell us more about money. Tell us more about how you never cared about all the civilian casualties that you say we HAD to kill. Because oil.

It's all about Biden and his little D, and the fact that he took your weenie away, and destroyed your Super-Foe Putin in a few short months, with Zero American casualties. If Trump was doing this? You wouldn't shut up about how awesome this war was going.

Your'e not fooling anyone, besides yourself. But by all means, keep it up! I could use more of your hypocritical fake complaints.

[a fan]

If Trump was still President, Putin would not have invaded.

Such certainty!

Republicans are awesome with super powers, don't you get it?

Dems are weak and......wait.......oh, never mind that. I just heard Putin's army is in shambles because he decided to take Old Salt's sage advice, and test Biden.

Whoops.

[Brooklyn]

... and the Basque straddling the boarder with France in the west.

... it appears neither the Catalans nor the Spanish are totally happy with that arrangement given 500-600 years of head butting. It is clear the Ukrainians aren't willing to accept that arrangement either.

MD's equation of Catalonia's quest for freedom with the Southern states rebellion is an absurdity. The Southern states signed the Constitution to become part of the USA --- one nation indivisible. Catalonia was invaded in the mid 1600s [there had been intermittent conflicts for centuries before that], lost the war, and was forced to accede to Madrid's demands. Totally different from the US experience. A contract has no validity if it is signed with a gun pointed at one's head. If Ukrainians have a right to freedom then so do Catalonians who never asked to be dictated to by the Falangists.

[Typical Lax Dad]

If Trump was still President, Putin would not have invaded.

Why? Republican tough guy nonsense. But by all means, tell us why?

You say you're not a Trump supporter, yet here you are, riding Trumpy hard, telling us how tough his Little R is, and acting like Putin was scared of tough-guy Trump.

Meanwhile, Biden has laid bare allllllll you and National Review and VDH's pumping up of Putin as a genius. That he was playing chess, and Obama was playing checkers. Biden has emasculated you and your Republican buddies, showing you not only are Dem Presidents just fine with waging war (I love that your'e

Biden should have let our EU allies take the lead, offering US support vis NATO. If we followed their lead there'd be a cease fire by now.

If we had done that, as you yourself claimed, Putin would have control of the whole country. You keep playing this stupid, petty, childish game where your claiming your path would lead to a perfect outcome....where Putin would drop his weapons and run away if we just gave him the chance. Why? R's and D's. It's just dumb. Stop it at some point, you know? Naaah. F that. Keep it up. We're dazzled by your evaluations here.

We can't sustain this, over the long haul, without their increased participation & contributions. It's a EUropean war

We've got 80,000 troops in Japan and S Korea. Sucking up about $10 billion a year.....since the Korean freaking war. Then there's the base you think we should STILL have in Afghanistan, and if you had your way, we'd still be Iraq because Obama would never have left.

But sure "we can't sustain" a war that's not even 12 months old. Ah, Old Salt. Who do you think you're kidding?

You are still full of sh!t on this. I've told you repeatedly that in '91, I was with Jim Webb & Ron Smith regarding putting US forces ashore in the Persian Gulf. Guld War-I & all our other wars flowed from that, including our 9-11 war in Afghanistan. Once we were committed, I was committed to win. *

Committed to win WHAT? What were you hoping you'd win? Yep, you said that about the initial invasion. But they part you're desperate to ignore and keep playing your silly game is that you said we HAD to go back in. No choice. Just like all the other oil adventures you said we HAD to do. You're on the hook for this. You don't get to pretend like you didn't just tell me this------but that you MOCKED ME and told me I was a "revisionist" if I told you that we ALWAYS have choices.

And lo and behold, all these years later, you're trying to lecture me that we have choices in Ukraine.

Yep. You're right. Can you pass this information along to the Old Salt of the past ten years who mocked me for telling him this very fact? I'd appreciate it.

blah, blah, blah, see above *

Yep. There it is again. We had no choice but to bankroll Saddam, and get cheap oil.

Charlie Wilson's war was in Afghanistan in the '80's. It had nothing to do with ME oil. Clinton had numerous opportunities to take out OBL after the USS Cole & embassy bombings, well before 9-11.

So as usual, you put it at the feet of a Democrat, instead of the guy who created OBL in the first place.....Reagan.

Please, keep Blah Blah Blahing. Tell us more about money. Tell us more about how you never cared about all the civilian casualties that you say we HAD to kill. Because oil.

It's all about Biden and his little D, and the fact that he took your weenie away, and destroyed your Super-Foe Putin in a few short months, with Zero American casualties. If Trump was doing this? You wouldn't shut up about how awesome this war was going.

Your'e not fooling anyone, besides yourself. But by all means, keep it up! I could use more of your hypocritical fake complaints.

The guy is as phony as a $3 bill. Been on Putin’s tip since Trump was in office. Not only hasn’t criticized Trump….hasn’t criticized Putin either. In six years he didn’t vote for Trump he just has the hat….and Putin wasn’t justified for his invasion of Ukraine despite a constant stream of why he is justified without saying it was justified…..