"The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community

[a fan]

You just griped about the Obama economy....only "mullahs and chicoms" were happy with Obama's economyy. I responded. Not really fair to pull the rug out from me and say you didn't mean it...and then give me grief for my response.

Be kind. I'm sensitive and break easily.

[dislaxxic]

Turning around and complaining about Obama's economy, while praising Trump's is....... well, I can't find the words.

I can find the word...it’s the one seacoaster used. Period. This is the guy that thinks of himself as a moderate. A Fan has laid out the forked-tongue thinking that is so easily seen in this type of partisan...laid it out in such simple terms, and STILL, even when it’s spelled out in 3rd grade English...the blinkered ones that can’t see that the R’s have exploded the debt, thrive on dividing Americans against one another, shower corporate welfare on their favored industries and cheer on ways to disenfranchise whole classes of voters...STILL they blink their eyes and throw that dead-eyed stare at being linked with the bile being pumped at the country every day by FoxNation.

It must be tough to be a conservative these days...the lies the ideology has been foisting on the country for decades now is starting to rot the party from within.

MD and other “real” conservatives hope the party can be brought back from this abyss...it would help the country as a whole if it could, but there just might not be enough of them left to pull it off...

..

[tech37]

I have to say: You really are kind of a ninkompoop. Obama divided the country. "Mullahs and Chicoms." People who don't like Trump are ideologues. You're silly. My kids have a more nuanced view of the world and they're just starting out. Mr. Moderate. Jeez.

I'm stunned, stunned I tell ya...you must be brainwashed. There is no other explanation.

Yikes, we all seem to have gotten a bit nasty. Probably would be good to dial back on the vitriol from all directions. Nasty?...not me. The counselor is doing the name calling after all. Pretty soon he'll be the progressive answer to bandito

tech37, you really do appear to be all-in with the constant anger peddled on Fox and Breitbart and similar sources. Maybe you're not aware of the influences, but I hadn't previously gotten the impression that 'nincompoop' would be an apt description. Right, the "angry fog." it's the result of FoxNews sensory overload

So, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on 'nincompoop'. Well thanks MD, that's big of you.
I think if you were a little less hyperbolic and seemingly repetitive of the Fox conspiracy, hate Obama baloney your points might be more persuasive or at least better received, and thus considered.

Indeed, I think there usually are good points to be made and considered, both 'conservative' and 'progressive', that we can actually disagree with one another about, yet be nuanced in our discussions. Let's at least try.

[tech37]

No, not a Bible. His book is yet another corroboration that what the Deep State is, is actually Trump's handpicked people trying to keep Trump from burning the House down.

Right now, Rod Rosenstein is in a precarious position. Why?...because something he said about wearing a wire to collect evidence against Trump. Who was he responding to when he spoke that gem a fan?...none other than Andrew McCabe, acting FBI Director at the time (a Comey guy, since fired, possibly facing criminal charges)) and certainly not a Trump "handpicked person." So what are you talking about? Some believe it is McCabe who leaked this info to NYT. I wouldn't call any of that "deep state," since as I've said, I don't use that term... so I'll just say "corrupt."

BTW: It was Sessions who "handpicked" Rosenstein.

[frmanfan]

Are we talking about Rod Rosenstein, frmanfan? I think you might be confusing two differenent stories or something.

Rod Rosenstein is the Dept. Attorney General, and was appointed to this post by Trump. He never worked at the FBI.

So many stories flying around, I get confused, too.

Sorry fan, my bad, I was reading the wrong line in my game program.

[Trinity]

Rob Goldstone is killing Don Jr and Jared with his version of Trump Tower NY meeting with Russians.
Trump would prefer we talk about Rod. The Deep State. Bruce Ohr. Even Kavanaugh boofing. Anything but his son colluding.

[a fan]

No, not a Bible. His book is yet another corroboration that what the Deep State is, is actually Trump's handpicked people trying to keep Trump from burning the House down.

Right now, Rod Rosenstein is in a precarious position. Why?...because something he said about wearing a wire to collect evidence against Trump. Who was he responding to when he spoke that gem a fan?...none other than Andrew McCabe, acting FBI Director at the time (a Comey guy, since fired, possibly facing criminal charges)) and certainly not a Trump "handpicked person." So what are you talking about?

I see. So you're so determined to hold to your narrative, you're going to pretend that you're ok with what Rosenstein said, act like he's not a member of the Deep State...and instead direct your attention and ire to the messenger who told the world about what Rosenstein said.

It's not that difficult to admit when you're simply wrong. I do it all the time. Question: do you know who personally approved the FBI raid on Cohen? Yep. Rosenstein.

BTW: It was Sessions who "handpicked" Rosenstein.

So now the AG has the power to appoint the Deputy Attorney General? When did that happen?

Trump nominated Rosenstein. Senate approved the nomination 94-6. The literal definition of handpicked by Trump.

[tech37]

No, not a Bible. His book is yet another corroboration that what the Deep State is, is actually Trump's handpicked people trying to keep Trump from burning the House down.

Right now, Rod Rosenstein is in a precarious position. Why?...because something he said about wearing a wire to collect evidence against Trump. Who was he responding to when he spoke that gem a fan?...none other than Andrew McCabe, acting FBI Director at the time (a Comey guy, since fired, possibly facing criminal charges)) and certainly not a Trump "handpicked person." So what are you talking about?

I see. So you're so determined to hold to your narrative, you're going to pretend that you're ok with what Rosenstein said, act like he's not a member of the Deep State...and instead direct your attention and ire to the messenger who told the world about what Rosenstein said. Nice try a fan. I was simply pointing out that your reliance on the Woodward book is short sighted. McCabe was definitely not one of Trump's "handpicked people" and quite possibly was plotting against him. Capisce? Keep reading that Woodward book a fan!

It's not that difficult to admit when you're simply wrong. I do it all the time. Question: do you know who personally approved the FBI raid on Cohen? Yep. Rosenstein. That's right a fan and Rosenstein approved extended surveillance of Carter Page as well. Did you know that?

BTW: It was Sessions who "handpicked" Rosenstein.

So now the AG has the power to appoint the Deputy Attorney General? When did that happen? Ha! Literally considered, of course not. But how involved do you really think Trump was on that decision?

[a fan]

So now Trump isn't responsible for his appointments.

I wish I had known this is how you view accountability when Obama was in charge. Every complaint you levied would have been countered with: "well, Obama didn't really make that decision, now did he? So he's in the clear"




BTW, how's the deficit looking? Tax cuts "paying for themselves" yet?

[tech37]

So now Trump isn't responsible for his appointments. Of course he is a fan. I took your words "hand picked" literally. Sessions "hand picked" Rosenstein...literally speaking.

I wish I had known this is how you view accountability when Obama was in charge. Every complaint you levied would have been countered with: "well, Obama didn't really make that decision, now did he? So he's in the clear" Not fair a fan...I always gave Obama credit where it was due...there just wasn't much "due" to be found

BTW, how's the deficit looking? Tax cuts "paying for themselves" yet? You should know what I'm going to say Mr. Instant Gratification, these things take time...I'm still optimistic.

[MDlaxfan76]

I have to say: You really are kind of a ninkompoop. Obama divided the country. "Mullahs and Chicoms." People who don't like Trump are ideologues. You're silly. My kids have a more nuanced view of the world and they're just starting out. Mr. Moderate. Jeez.

I'm stunned, stunned I tell ya...you must be brainwashed. There is no other explanation.

Yikes, we all seem to have gotten a bit nasty. Probably would be good to dial back on the vitriol from all directions. Nasty?...not me. The counselor is doing the name calling after all. Pretty soon he'll be the progressive answer to bandito Seacoaster's a very far cry from being the sort of bomb thrower that Bandito has proven to be, but I was indeed urging a toning down of 'name calling'; that said, I agree that your prior response to him was pretty far afield from reality.

tech37, you really do appear to be all-in with the constant anger peddled on Fox and Breitbart and similar sources. Maybe you're not aware of the influences, but I hadn't previously gotten the impression that 'nincompoop' would be an apt description. Right, the "angry fog." it's the result of FoxNews sensory overload Yes, I really do see a direct consistency between Fox/Breitbart et al commentary, specifically designed to rile up our worst impulses and based on a knowing disregard of truth, and much of what you have written. Maybe you don't see the connection, but I do. Perhaps I "see" this because it's so obvious to me in my own family that what I hear is so often directly been spoken by Fox commenters the night or morning before. I see Fox on their screens and then hear total nonsense repeated that they'd heard. Moreover, they have a clear absence of having heard and understood contrary views and facts. Of course, I'm sure that if one only watched MSNBC one would also have a skewed view of what is going on across America.

So, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on 'nincompoop'. Well thanks MD, that's big of you. Best I could do. I'll buy the first beer.
I think if you were a little less hyperbolic and seemingly repetitive of the Fox conspiracy, hate Obama baloney your points might be more persuasive or at least better received, and thus considered.

Indeed, I think there usually are good points to be made and considered, both 'conservative' and 'progressive', that we can actually disagree with one another about, yet be nuanced in our discussions. Let's at least try.

[tech37]

tech37, you really do appear to be all-in with the constant anger peddled on Fox and Breitbart and similar sources. Maybe you're not aware of the influences, but I hadn't previously gotten the impression that 'nincompoop' would be an apt description. Right, the "angry fog." it's the result of FoxNews sensory overload Yes, I really do see a direct consistency between Fox/Breitbart et al commentary, specifically designed to rile up our worst impulses and based on a knowing disregard of truth, and much of what you have written. Maybe you don't see the connection, but I do. Perhaps I "see" this because it's so obvious to me in my own family that what I hear is so often directly been spoken by Fox commenters the night or morning before. I see Fox on their screens and then hear total nonsense repeated that they'd heard. Moreover, they have a clear absence of having heard and understood contrary views and facts. Of course, I'm sure that if one only watched MSNBC one would also have a skewed view of what is going on across America.

I don't know about your theory MD, I listen to a lot of NPR too. Maybe it's the NPR...

[a fan]

You should know what I'm going to say Mr. Instant Gratification, these things take time...I'm still optimistic

I'm a whiskey distiller! I HAVE to be patient.

Deficit is up by 30% over last fiscal year, my friend. And that was BEFORE the consequences of Trump's new $700 Billion spending bill.

Jury is in. They gave their verdict and went back to their families months ago.

Have a great week, tech!

[MDlaxfan76]

So now Trump isn't responsible for his appointments. Of course he is a fan. I took your words "hand picked" literally. Sessions "hand picked" Rosenstein...literally speaking. Of course, Trump "hand picked" Sessions...literally speaking.

I wish I had known this is how you view accountability when Obama was in charge. Every complaint you levied would have been countered with: "well, Obama didn't really make that decision, now did he? So he's in the clear" Not fair a fan...I always gave Obama credit where it was due...there just wasn't much "due" to be found

BTW, how's the deficit looking? Tax cuts "paying for themselves" yet? You should know what I'm going to say Mr. Instant Gratification, these things take time...I'm still optimistic.

On this one, I think we'd all LOVE it if somehow the tax cuts actually proved to reduce the deficit rather than explode it. But the "these things take time" sadly appears to be way, way over on side of "explode" as the highest probability outcome. And this was truly obvious from the outset. Where this is all so frustrating to those of us fiscal conservatives who actually think that deficits do eventually matter is that the same angry loud voices that were complaining so bitterly about the deficit impact of the financial sector and then auto sector rescue, those angriest Tea Party/Freedom Caucus types have so uniformly lined up behind Trump. Seems hugely hypocritical.

[MDlaxfan76]

tech37, you really do appear to be all-in with the constant anger peddled on Fox and Breitbart and similar sources. Maybe you're not aware of the influences, but I hadn't previously gotten the impression that 'nincompoop' would be an apt description. Right, the "angry fog." it's the result of FoxNews sensory overload Yes, I really do see a direct consistency between Fox/Breitbart et al commentary, specifically designed to rile up our worst impulses and based on a knowing disregard of truth, and much of what you have written. Maybe you don't see the connection, but I do. Perhaps I "see" this because it's so obvious to me in my own family that what I hear is so often directly been spoken by Fox commenters the night or morning before. I see Fox on their screens and then hear total nonsense repeated that they'd heard. Moreover, they have a clear absence of having heard and understood contrary views and facts. Of course, I'm sure that if one only watched MSNBC one would also have a skewed view of what is going on across America.

I don't know about your theory MD, I listen to a lot of NPR too. Maybe it's the NPR...

Yup, maybe it's the NPR...what are you listening to re-runs of Car Talk? (great show!)

[tech37]

tech37, you really do appear to be all-in with the constant anger peddled on Fox and Breitbart and similar sources. Maybe you're not aware of the influences, but I hadn't previously gotten the impression that 'nincompoop' would be an apt description. Right, the "angry fog." it's the result of FoxNews sensory overload Yes, I really do see a direct consistency between Fox/Breitbart et al commentary, specifically designed to rile up our worst impulses and based on a knowing disregard of truth, and much of what you have written. Maybe you don't see the connection, but I do. Perhaps I "see" this because it's so obvious to me in my own family that what I hear is so often directly been spoken by Fox commenters the night or morning before. I see Fox on their screens and then hear total nonsense repeated that they'd heard. Moreover, they have a clear absence of having heard and understood contrary views and facts. Of course, I'm sure that if one only watched MSNBC one would also have a skewed view of what is going on across America.

I don't know about your theory MD, I listen to a lot of NPR too. Maybe it's the NPR...

Yup, maybe it's the NPR...what are you listening to re-runs of Car Talk? (great show!)

Ha! Yes, for one...love Car Talk. Fresh Air, The Hidden Brain, Science Friday...a lot of interesting stuff on there

[a fan]

On this one, I think we'd all LOVE it if somehow the tax cuts actually proved to reduce the deficit rather than explode it. But the "these things take time" sadly appears to be way, way over on side of "explode" as the highest probability outcome. And this was truly obvious from the outset. Where this is all so frustrating to those of us fiscal conservatives who actually think that deficits do eventually matter is that the same angry loud voices that were compelling so bitterly about the deficit impact of the financial sector and then auto sector rescue, those angriest Tea Party/Freedom Caucus types have so uniformly lined up behind Trump. Seems hugely hypocritical.

Of course it's hypocritical. It's all about the letter R by Trump's name.

Here's an easy way to tell: tech37, if that Ocasio Cortez lady said that she was going to offer free college/trade school to all qualified Americans, and the cost for that would be $2.7 Trillion over ten years...and she told you that the way this would be paid for was to enact heavy tax cuts, would you believe her?

Love Science Friday!

[seacoaster]

Sorry I called you a nincompoop. Seriously, it was out of line, just a measure of my relative exasperation with you sometimes. Vade in Pace.

[tech37]

Thanks seacoaster!...and no sweat.

[MDlaxfan76]

Sorry I called you a nincompoop. Seriously, it was out of line, just a measure of my relative exasperation with you sometimes. Vade in Pace.

And with those simple words of apology, you highlight what is so often missing in our discourse.
The willingness to say you're sorry or that you've been mistaken or misinformed...it's so easy, yet some find it incredibly hard to do.
Left/right, it doesn't really matter. Right now, it seems to be a particular failing of the Trumpist crew, this notion that simply doubling down on whatever nonsense or abusive claim is preferable to reconsideration or apology.

Good on you, seacoaster, for demonstrating for us all the better path.
Vade in Pace.

and good on you, tech37, for your acceptance.

Unfortunately, too many live by this maxim instead:
Ascendo tuum

PS, the only Latin I actually remember is pax vobiscum and semper ubi sub ubi.