All Things Russia & Ukraine

[old salt]

What's been verified ? The open source history that Nellie Ohr complied for Fusion GPS about Trump's travel to Russia & his business dealings, all of which has been non-incriminating. Just fodder for innuendo & conspiracy theories.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 15046.html

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-d ... now-777116

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2% ... llegations

Thanks for wasting my time with those non-specific links. Eyewash.

I ask again :
What from the dossier has proven actionable ?
Which members of the Trump campaign or admin have been indicted based on "intel" from the dossier ?

[old salt]

The Dossier might not have had the same effect if the Trump team had not lied repeatedly about their many contacts with Russians during the campaign.

Tru dat

.bs1. The Dossier was inserted into the .govt via 4 different channels.
Simpson & Steele (& Brennan) were feeding it to any media who would listen.
The HRC campaign & Steele's Russian contacts got the DNC $$$ worth.
It was a much more sophisticated, cost effective disinformation campaign than the GRU's social media ads, bots & trolls.
It made the MSM a HRC/DNC troll factory. It kept going after the election & the transition. It's still paying dividends.

[holmes435]

Thanks for wasting my time with those non-specific links. Eyewash.

I ask again :
What from the dossier has proven actionable ?
Which members of the Trump campaign or admin have been indicted based on "intel" from the dossier ?

That's called moving the goalposts. You claimed the dossier was discredited. I proved that false, showing plenty of parts of the dossier were credible and proven. Now you're backpedaling, asking what parts have proven "actionable".

The investigation is obviously ongoing on that part. The dossier has not been discredited.

[a fan]

You have no clue about "my crew".

Sure I do. You've been citing Op-Ed's from conservative sources for years now. All of them flipped out over Obama pointing out that---to the surprise of precisely no one-----American foreign policy hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows. Conservative rags flipped out over Obama---horrors---pointing out the America isn't star-spangled-awesome-perfect...and labeled it an "apology tour", and called him an America-hater.

Now that the editor of the American Conservative does the same thing, he's just "stating the truth", right?

They're not apologizing. They're pointing out the hypocrisy & fecklessness of our childish Russophobia.

So the idea here is that the American Conservative thinks that guys like me cooked up the idea of sending the CIA to mess with elections and foment coups in, say, Iran.... 17 years before I was born....and therefore I should shut up and be happy that Russia is messing with our election? Further, if I dare complain or get upset over Russia's attacks on our Democracy, and our leader's flaccid response to this threat.....I'm a hypocrite and a Russiaphobe?

That about sum it up?

I'd give you a real response to this, but we're not supposed to swear on this board anymore.

[old salt]

You have no clue about "my crew".

Sure I do. You've been citing Op-Ed's from conservative sources for years now. All of them flipped out over Obama pointing out that---to the surprise of precisely no one-----American foreign policy hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows. Conservative rags flipped out over Obama---horrors---pointing out the America isn't star-spangled-awesome-perfect...and labeled it an "apology tour", and called him an America-hater.

Now that the editor of the American Conservative does the same thing, he's just "stating the truth", right?

They're not apologizing. They're pointing out the hypocrisy & fecklessness of our childish Russophobia.

So the idea here is that the American Conservative thinks that guys like me cooked up the idea of sending the CIA to mess with elections and foment coups in, say, Iran.... 17 years before I was born....and therefore I should shut up and be happy that Russia is messing with our election? Further, if I dare complain or get upset over Russia's attacks on our Democracy, and our leader's flaccid response to this threat.....I'm a hypocrite and a Russiaphobe?

That about sum it up?

I'd give you a real response to this, but we're not supposed to swear on this board anymore.

They are acknowledging our history, ...& not apologizing for it. While keeping Russia's actions in perspective.

[a fan]

Buffalo bagels. He lists a bunch of crap that easily half our nation's citizens would immediately stop if it were in our power to do so-----fomenting coups, demanding regime change, putting the Ukraine in NATO, etc.------ and then he's arguing who pushed whom first between Putin and the US.

First of all, nothing would make me happier then writing laws preventing the CIA from fomenting coups under penalty of death. Where do I sign for that? Not only do I find that crap morally repugnant, it is, as I have said many times, the single dumbest thing our military does. It always backfires. You'd think they'd catch on to that. Nope. 50+ years of dumb will continue because no one at the CIA understands history, or the nature of the world. They'll never stop doing it.

Second of all, does this Merry guy have a map? Is Ukraine a sovereign nation, or not? He's basically saying that Putin "owns" the Ukraine, "therefore" we're meddling with the natural order of things. Do the Ukrainians have a say? I'm guessing Mr. Merry thinks that they don't. Clearly Putin doesn't, and Merry is arguing that we should not only let Putin do as he chooses with other sovereign nations, we should shut up when Putin attacks us because we took away his lollipop, therefore "it's cool, man". Sanctions are therefore bad. So is getting upset about our elections.

The 80's called. It wants its foreign policy back. This reasoning is ridiculous, sorry.

[old salt]

Buffalo bagels. He lists a bunch of turd that easily half our nation's citizens would immediately stop if it were in our power to do so-----fomenting coups, demanding regime change, putting the Ukraine in NATO, etc.------ and then he's arguing who pushed whom first between Putin and the US.
You think the EUroburghers don't want Ukraine in NATO & the EU ?

First of all, nothing would make me happier then writing laws preventing the CIA from fomenting coups under penalty of death. Where do I sign for that? Not only do I find that turd morally repugnant, it is, as I have said many times, the single dumbest thing our military does. It always backfires. You'd think they'd catch on to that. Nope. 50+ years of dumb will continue because no one at the CIA understands history, or the nature of the world. They'll never stop doing it.
You're talking about your feelings. I'm citing our history, & how the Russians view it.

Second of all, does this Merry guy have a map? Is Ukraine a sovereign nation, or not? He's basically saying that Putin "owns" the Ukraine, "therefore" we're meddling with the natural order of things. Do the Ukrainians have a say? I'm guessing Mr. Merry thinks that they don't. Clearly Putin doesn't, and Merry is arguing that we should not only let Putin do as he chooses with other sovereign nations, we should shut up when Putin attacks us because we took away his lollipop, therefore "it's cool, man". Sanctions are therefore bad. So is getting upset about our elections.
The Ukrainians had their say in their 2014 election. We helped overturn the results & promoted regime change.

The 80's called. It wants its foreign policy back. This reasoning is ridiculous, sorry.
Who's bringing up Obama now ?

[a fan]

You're pulling this out of context. The context is the Merry Op Ed in the National Conservative. He's calling me a hypocrite for getting mad that Russians are mucking with our elections.

I think I have sufficiently debunked this nonsense, and we can move on.....

[dislaxxic]

Trump Lawyer Rudy Giuliani Headlines Pro-Russian Conference In Armenia

Auditioning for Attorney General??

..

[dislaxxic]

Taibbi: Russia’s Biggest Problem Will Soon Be Ours

..

[old salt]

Taibbi: Russia’s Biggest Problem Will Soon Be Ours

If Russia form's a military alliance with Mexico & Central America, & entertains requests from South American nations to join, then maybe we'll become as xenophobic as Russians are. ...depending on how much they sanction us & the impact on our economy & standard of living.

[Trinity]

Dana lost.

[runrussellrun]

Taibbi: Russia’s Biggest Problem Will Soon Be Ours

..

Drinking ourselves to death?

[frmanfan]

Right, everyone is going to Canada. Been hearing that for years. But - Canada is now up to almost 37 million people, all living within 100 miles of the USA. You can tell everyone has been rushing there for years.

Even my mother wouldn't move back to Canada, her birth place. It's cold up there.

And Norway is almost up to 5.5 million! Half the size of NYC! It's cold there too.

[dislaxxic]

Lest we forget, there is STILL much ado about RUSSIA.

TRUMP REFUSES TO ANSWER WHY HE ORDERED MIKE FLYNN TO PLACATE THE RUSSIANS ON SANCTIONS

Does anyone still think there is NO CHANCE of a presidential subpoena?

..

[seriously?]

https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraine-deman ... 73893.html

Can't you picture the threesome with MBS, Putin and Trump? Must have been a doozy.

[Jim Malone]

Well it is a good thing Ukraine is not in NATO or there would even worse situation in Ukraine than martial law after the Russian Ukraine Navy fracas! Looks like McHale's Ensign Parker got his own Ukraine posting in their fleet! Geeze Louise.

[old salt]

But NATO could still get dragged in :

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_160789.htm

This morning, ...President Poroshenko ...requested the NATO - Ukraine Commission meeting. Because under the NATO - Ukraine Charter, Ukraine can request such a meeting if it perceives a direct threat to its territorial integrity, political independence, or security.

And at this meeting all allies expressed their full support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty.

So we call on Russia to ensure unhindered access to Ukrainian ports and allow freedom of navigation for Ukraine in the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait.

By happy coincidence, the USN carrier strike group that was operating in the North Sea & above the Arctic Circle is now in the Med.

OK NATO (or Macron's EUro Navy), what you gonna do ? This is interference in the innocent passage of a European neighbor, transiting an international sea lane in European waters, to access international waters from it's own territorial waters. A sticky wicket.

This is the perfect opportunity for NATO's Standing Naval Force Mediterranean to conduct a Freedom of Navigation transit into the Sea of Azov, to visit Ukrainian ports. The USN could join with one of our Destroyers which is homeported in Rota, Spain.

Come on NATO. Want to preserve the alliance in the face of Putin's attempt to divide it ? Show us what you got.
Why is our MSM's default question -- what's the US gonna about this ? Are they gonna let Putin undermine NATO ?

Does Frau Merkel still have any illusions about Putin's plans for Ukraine, once Nordstream 2 is complete
& he no longer needs to pass gas to her EUroburghers via Ukraine ?

[MDlaxfan76]

But NATO could still get dragged in :

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_160789.htm

This morning, ...President Poroshenko ...requested the NATO - Ukraine Commission meeting. Because under the NATO - Ukraine Charter, Ukraine can request such a meeting if it perceives a direct threat to its territorial integrity, political independence, or security.

And at this meeting all allies expressed their full support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty.

So we call on Russia to ensure unhindered access to Ukrainian ports and allow freedom of navigation for Ukraine in the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait.

By happy coincidence, the USN carrier strike group that was operating in the North Sea & above the Arctic Circle is now in the Med.

OK NATO (or Macron's EUro Navy), what you gonna do ? This is interference in the innocent passage of a European neighbor, transiting an international sea lane in European waters, to access international waters from it's own territorial waters. A sticky wicket.

This is the perfect opportunity for NATO's Standing Naval Force Mediterranean to conduct a Freedom of Navigation transit into the Sea of Azov, to visit Ukrainian ports. The USN could join with one of our Destroyers which is homeported in Rota, Spain.

Come on NATO. Want to preserve the alliance in the face of Putin's attempt to divide it ? Show us what you got.
Why is our MSM's default question -- what's the US gonna about this ? Are they gonna let Putin undermine NATO ?

Does Frau Merkel still have any illusions about Putin's plans for Ukraine, once Nordstream 2 is complete
& he no longer needs to pass gas to her EUroburghers via Ukraine ?

"happy coincidence"?...I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

Do you really not understand why the US media ("MSM") would be asking what's the US going to do? Nah, you know better.
Not only does the American public want to know its government's position and game plan, the rest of the world understands that the big kahuna in NATO is the USA and wants to know our stance. You really think that NATO acts independently just because Merkel or Macron think something should happen?

The action plan you suggest sounds like it has merit, but, as I think you're suggesting as well, I'd want American muscle to be quite involved and clearly present, not absent. Your suggestion sounds fine. How long does it take to get there and are they underway?

[old salt]

Irony is wasted on the stupid. (I believe Oscar Wilde said that).