palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
With no disrespect to MAAC schools (especially since I come from one of the programs), it's a Kia budget the new coach is going to be on. OK, maybe low end Acura if he's lucky.
MAAC teams, with some of the higher budget teams - MSM is middle of the pack in the MAAC (per EADA AD budget reporting) ------->
______________________
maac.jpg
10stone, can you tell me what search criteria you used for this table? The reason I ask is I went to the Equity in Athletics web site and tried to figure out where the numbers in your table are coming from. I only checked the first school in your table. The closest data directly related to your line item for Siena men's and women's lacrosse in the 2022 data (most recent available) are game day expenses, but they don't reconcile. The web site says $173,656 and $86,410 compared to your chart's $153,875 and $772,936. I don't want to try to understand the point you're making until I know what the information you provided is. TIA
This download -------->
2022
Data for academic year 2021-22 – Data are stored in two Excel, two SAS, and two SPSS files. Each file format has a record for every sport in every institution, and a record per institution. In addition, codebooks have been provided for each file as Word documents.
Its a zip file, the excel file is named Schools.
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:02 pm
by palaxoff
Thanks for the chart 10stone5, I'd say what I found more interesting is the schools below the MACC schools. They have consistently been to the tournament and are spending more then twice as much.
So 2 questions
1) I want to be a D1 coach is the Mount a good choice.
Limited Resources
Harder Recruiting for Good Talent
Looks like a non committed athletic department
Nice Campus but small student body
Doesn't have the facilities (compared to Big 10, ACC or even the IVY)
2) What does the Mount need to do to get a coach and improve the program?
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:16 pm
by gymman1031
Could Coach Chris Ryan from Mercyhurst follow the Mount’s new AD to the Mount?
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:36 pm
by MDlaxfan76
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
Well, the Ivies have done so...with zero athletic scholarships.
But to be fair, the attractions are not the same, and on the money front, the Ivies are super generous with need-based fully blind aid.
But no athletic money.
Yes, Mount St. Mary's would need to commit to financial support, really at full 12.6 IMO. If they did so, that could move the needle pretty quickly for a new coach. You're still bringing in another 30 full pay...or spread it out.
But if the school isn't going to commit, it's not a very attractive gig other than for someone who simply loves coaching and needs/wants a chance to prove themselves in D1 they can't find elsewhere. One of my son's buddies is an assistant in DIII, coached at MSM early on, and would be the sort who might fit that description, though might be better off staying the DIII route...but it's not an easy gig unless there's commitment.
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:50 pm
by 10stone5
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:02 pm
Thanks for the chart 10stone5, I'd say what I found more interesting is the schools below the MACC schools.
They have consistently been to the tournament and are spending more then twice as much.
Yeah,
you’ve got to pay to play.
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:04 pm
by Henpecked
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
Remind me…when did Villanova get past the first round of the NCAA tournament?
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
Remind me…when did Villanova get past the first round of the NCAA tournament?
I’m assuming he meant teams with less than full scholarships that have gotten to the 1st round.
The 2011 team, that’s the closest the Cats have come to getting past the 1st round.
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
Remind me…when did Villanova get past the first round of the NCAA tournament?
I’m assuming he meant teams with less than full scholarships that have gotten to the 1st round.
The 2011 team, that’s the closest the Cats have come to getting past the 1st round.
Oh. That’s not what he wrote. I’m sure that plenty of teams with less than 12.6 scholarships have made the tournament with the auto qualifiers.
I’m not the AD of Villanova, but if I were, I’d eliminate the football program again and put resources into other sports like lacrosse where they can compete at a national level. The football program bleeds money with tons of scholarships and they get 4500 fans to the home games. Nobody cares.
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
Remind me…when did Villanova get past the first round of the NCAA tournament?
I’m assuming he meant teams with less than full scholarships that have gotten to the 1st round.
The 2011 team, that’s the closest the Cats have come to getting past the 1st round.
Oh. That’s not what he wrote. I’m sure that plenty of teams with less than 12.6 scholarships have made the tournament with the auto qualifiers.
I’m not the AD of Villanova, but if I were, I’d eliminate the football program again and put resources into other sports like lacrosse where they can compete at a national level. The football program bleeds money with tons of scholarships and they get 4500 fans to the home games. Nobody cares.
I'm going to take a wild guess that a contributing factor in not making a decision like that is there are quite a few big time athletics and general budget donations that wouldn't come in if V cut football.
palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:08 am
How Many Scholarships does the Mount have? I'm sure that would be one of the first questions any preceptive coach will ask. Recruiting is a huge part of the job and getting good talent requires money. It would make it a much less attractive position. Think buying a Bentley on a Kia budget.
how many NCAA teams have gotten past the first round of the tournament without a large number of scholarships in the past 10 years? I think the only solid example is Villanova and I believe they are now up to 8.
Remind me…when did Villanova get past the first round of the NCAA tournament?
I’m assuming he meant teams with less than full scholarships that have gotten to the 1st round.
The 2011 team, that’s the closest the Cats have come to getting past the 1st round.
Oh. That’s not what he wrote. I’m sure that plenty of teams with less than 12.6 scholarships have made the tournament with the auto qualifiers.
I’m not the AD of Villanova, but if I were, I’d eliminate the football program again and put resources into other sports like lacrosse where they can compete at a national level. The football program bleeds money with tons of scholarships and they get 4500 fans to the home games. Nobody cares.
I'm going to take a wild guess that a contributing factor in not making a decision like that is there are quite a few big time athletics and general budget donations that wouldn't come in if V cut football.
It's indeed a conundrum for lots of schools.
Football eats up admission and scholarship slots, making Title IX compliance really hard.
But its legacy effect is financial donations.
Also true in Ivies, where the scholarships don't matter. But slots do.
But I don't see the Ivies giving up the sport as so much of the donation support comes from that pool of former athletes.
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:19 pm
by Kiwilax
All seems very quiet on the coaching front here, any whispers as to who might be in the running
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:58 pm
by gymman1031
Kiwilax wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:19 pm
All seems very quiet on the coaching front here, any whispers as to who might be in the running
I am wondering the same thing. Wondering if it may be at least another month due to the new AD's tenure not officially beginning until then.
lilax wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:55 pm
It will be interesting to see this hiring process. I think Mount is an enticing job. You are in a conference that is very winnable and you are very close to some major lacrosse hotbeds.
I don’t think they attract a top-level assistant like a John Haus at Penn State or Ryan Wellner at ND. But I think that they will attract some good high to mid-level assistants like Justin Ward at Army, Paul Richard at Richmond, or Jeremy Hirsch at Princeton.
I could also see them getting interest from a DI assistant who wants another shot at being a head coach like Eric Seremet at Rutgers or even maybe someone like Chris Wojik at ND.
Do coaches like Pat Myers (Lafayette) or Andy German (Cleveland St.) view Mount as better than their current situation and make the jump over?
Or do they get a top DII/DIII coach? The AD just came from Mercyhurst. Chris Ryan has been able to build a very good program in Erie, PA. Not much of a destination spot. Does the job interest someone like Mikey Thompson or Brandon Childs who have built great programs at Christopher Newport and York?
I think Mount will see a good amount of applications. They are coming off of an above average season. Though they seem to be losing a lot in the transfer portal, with the right coach, they can get to the top of the MAAC.
You may be the only person that feels the Mount is an "enticing" job...
"Home is where you make it."
There are only so many "D1" jobs. And a lotta good, hungry young coaches.
Outgoing AD shouldn't make this hire.
Smart call is to let the new person do it.
Kiwilax wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:19 pm
All seems very quiet on the coaching front here, any whispers as to who might be in the running
I am wondering the same thing. Wondering if it may be at least another month due to the new AD's tenure not officially beginning until then.
Friend on the board of trustees says the following
New AD is going to make the hire and he will be starting earlier than expected. The obvious answer will be him hiring Chris Ryan. Alumni do not want that. Which is going to be his push back especially in donations
Quite a few inquiries for the position from some really good schools but the alumni want “Someone who is a Mount alum” They either want Joe Connor or TC Dibartolo to “carry on Gravantes legacy” they want to keep it in the family”. In a perfect world they can get both as Connor coached Dibartolo or vice versa. New AD apparently has contacted both
Kiwilax wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 1:19 pm
All seems very quiet on the coaching front here, any whispers as to who might be in the running
I am wondering the same thing. Wondering if it may be at least another month due to the new AD's tenure not officially beginning until then.
Friend on the board of trustees says the following
New AD is going to make the hire and he will be starting earlier than expected. The obvious answer will be him hiring Chris Ryan. Alumni do not want that. Which is going to be his push back especially in donations
Quite a few inquiries for the position from some really good schools but the alumni want “Someone who is a Mount alum” They either want Joe Connor or TC Dibartolo to “carry on Gravantes legacy” they want to keep it in the family”. In a perfect world they can get both as Connor coached Dibartolo or vice versa. New AD apparently has contacted both
I don’t think Ryan will be interested in the job. I was told his wife has a pretty big job in Erie. It’s the main reason he’s been at Mercyhurst for 23 years.
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:58 am
by palaxoff
the alumni want “Someone who is a Mount alum”
Shouldn't the Alumni be out fund raising for scholarships so the next coach can succeed instead of fighting the battles Gravante had?
The Mount had a 42% win ratio the past 28 years maybe its time they bring some new blood in.
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:58 am
by palaxoff
the alumni want “Someone who is a Mount alum”
Shouldn't the Alumni be out fund raising for scholarships so the next coach can succeed instead of fighting the battles Gravante had?
The Mount had a 42% win ratio the past 28 years maybe its time they bring some new blood in.
Shouldn't the Alumni be out fund raising for scholarships so the next coach can succeed instead of fighting the battles Gravante had?
The Mount had a 42% win ratio the past 28 years maybe its time they bring some new blood in.
Fundraising for scholarships? That’s not how it works in the slightest. Mount alumni definitely support their program. I know quite a few Mount alums, those people are like cult members when it comes to support of eachother. The Mount has had some success in the past. The move to the MAAC puts them back where they belong and in the top half of the conference
Re: MOUNT ST MARYS 2023
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:22 am
by palaxoff
Fundraising for scholarships? That’s not how it works in the slightest.
Umm that is exactly how Villanova did it. The booster club and alumni raised the money to fund lacrosse scholarships.
