Johns Hopkins 2021

[Hoponboard]

Expected announcement for full cancellation of in-person classes and virtual commencement.

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/03/18/universi ... ntent=0318

[Farfromgeneva]

Hey, you never know!
Think would Roman could do for our offense! LoL
I meant Greg Raymond. My bad.

Raymond isn’t coming. I’d suggest you guys dig up John Haus’ number and see what he’s up to these days.

Do you say that as a Hobart fan who hopes he doesn't leave or do you actually know something? Because the idea that he wouldn't at least seriously consider the job if offered is preposterous based on publicly available information.

Yes and no. Not enough to be definitive but more than "publicly available information" of which there is effectively none other than speculation here.
Never say never until ink is all dried, I just think you underrate some peoples affinity to where they are from, particularly some folks (not me outside of being specifically on a Finger Lake) in upstate NY. Wife is set there, no Tambroni opportunity. I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

[Hoponboard]

Regarding seniors, looking for a job in a pandemic is no picnic. Current offers may be rescinded and new offers not forthcoming. Continuing with school at Hopkins or elsewhere, if finances can be worked out, may be the best option.

[primitiveskills]

Hey, you never know!
Think would Roman could do for our offense! LoL
I meant Greg Raymond. My bad.

Raymond isn’t coming. I’d suggest you guys dig up John Haus’ number and see what he’s up to these days.

Do you say that as a Hobart fan who hopes he doesn't leave or do you actually know something? Because the idea that he wouldn't at least seriously consider the job if offered is preposterous based on publicly available information.

Yes and no. Not enough to be definitive but more than "publicly available information" of which there is effectively none other than speculation here.
Never say never until ink is all dried, I just think you underrate some peoples affinity to where they are from, particularly some folks (not me outside of being specifically on a Finger Lake) in upstate NY. Wife is set there, no Tambroni opportunity. I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

This all makes sense, and yet (contrary to the rantings of some on this board) the Hopkins job still has be be considered a top-tier opportunity in the college coaching profession. Unless there are compelling reasons that a coach is already in his "dream job", or doesn't care at all about history and legacy, it's hard to imagine that most coaches out there would not have some interest. Especially an alum like Raymond. The only thing I don't buy at all is the "loyalty to Coach P" argument. That's not the way things work, especially in a contract expiry situation.

[Laxrat]

Steele for HC

[Farfromgeneva]

Hey, you never know!
Think would Roman could do for our offense! LoL
I meant Greg Raymond. My bad.

Raymond isn’t coming. I’d suggest you guys dig up John Haus’ number and see what he’s up to these days.

Do you say that as a Hobart fan who hopes he doesn't leave or do you actually know something? Because the idea that he wouldn't at least seriously consider the job if offered is preposterous based on publicly available information.

Yes and no. Not enough to be definitive but more than "publicly available information" of which there is effectively none other than speculation here.
Never say never until ink is all dried, I just think you underrate some peoples affinity to where they are from, particularly some folks (not me outside of being specifically on a Finger Lake) in upstate NY. Wife is set there, no Tambroni opportunity. I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

This all makes sense, and yet (contrary to the rantings of some on this board) the Hopkins job still has be be considered a top-tier opportunity in the college coaching profession. Unless there are compelling reasons that a coach is already in his "dream job", or doesn't care at all about history and legacy, it's hard to imagine that most coaches out there would not have some interest. Especially an alum like Raymond. The only thing I don't buy at all is the "loyalty to Coach P" argument. That's not the way things work, especially in a contract expiry situation.

Talk to Coach R or anyone truly close to him and see if what I'm saying is accurate, including considerations as to how Coach P would be shown the door and if that would matter to him. I understand how contracts work, but contracts for HOF players and coaches who've been in the seat 15+ years with two titles as a coach and top whatever all time d man at same school typically gets an evergreen rollover of contract unless they're like coming off a couple of 2-4 win years.

All these things are bigger obstacles in this situation than you folks may think. Am I saying he wouldn't take it? No, but he would have to be sold the job beyond "hey we have 400 titles, mostly from the Roman Empire but still, and you went here and clearly that's more important than where you are from and spent 3-4x as much of your life and your wife who's also a lifelong upstate person (who went to William Smith BTW my information comes more via that route and indirect but likely still better than almost all of you folks unless you have a regular and direct line with him). He has an opportunity to build a legacy at Hobart. He's more likely to end up like Zim at best at Hop and even if he wins two titles look how a lot of folks have treated your current coach. That's a bad look even to alums.

Could he go? Sure. But it would take more money and salesmanship than any of you realize and even then no guarantee. Hobart used to only want Hobart guys after Urick/O'Hara and Kerwick was a bust ultimately. Eventually we all realized having an alum is probably not the best thing at a place that has some tradition and at this stage unrealistic expectations. Are you guys even sure Hop would've beaten Hobart this year? The job may have it's attractive considerations but it comes with a TON of baggage and all of you guys who are worse than us Hobart fans who think it should be no different than the D3 era. Admissions, money, etc. It's unclear to me that the red carpet is going to be rolled out for any new coach and the idea that it's just a matter of who you want to grab is fallacious. I've viewed the Hobart gig as a potential stepping stone for a guy like Raymond, but more likely if Cornell or even Syracuse opened up than back to Baltimore. Even then, he's been a .500 coach at Bart, you sure the AD has him at the top of the list?

[jhu06]

Regarding seniors, looking for a job in a pandemic is no picnic. Current offers may be rescinded and new offers not forthcoming. Continuing with school at Hopkins or elsewhere, if finances can be worked out, may be the best option.

This was my concern about a coaching change, someone helping the current/outgoing guys in case they have job/internship issues. University statement that went out today made no mention of helping kids with summer plans, what to do about internships, job offers, helping recent alumni who might be struggling or worrying. The ivies do a much better job with this.

[51percentcorn]

williams had 4 goals on 31 shots and who knows how many of those goals were after it didn't matter against the non towson/msm part of the schedule. He was supposed to be an offensive leader this year and they couldn't put it together. He got a few to save an msm game but that "win" felt more like a loss. Results are what they are. I'd rather give a kid who's going to play the next 2-3 years that time next spring rather than someone who has been here and mostly didn't show up in the 4 biggest games of the season.

Yes - he is singularly responsible for all those losses. I thought lacrosse was 10 vs. 10 but my math must be off. With a 1 legged Epstein - pray tell who was there to help him and take the pressure off in those 4 games?
Baskin 4-13
DeSimone 1-11
Smith 5-14 (2 of those goals after issue was decided against Loyola)
Zinn 4-28

Only Degnon 6-16 and Murphy (all 3 goals against Syracuse after score became 12-4 and 2 of 3 goals against Princeton after score became 13-7) were somewhat notable exceptions If Williams can dodge against a sole defender and the slide has to worry about what he's leaving - he'll do some damage. He's unfortunately proven he is not the most accurate of shooters but he could fit in well with Epstein at X and Murphy on the other side. His vision and passing are improving. If you are in the camp that Grimes never leaves the field than you pretty much don't want Williams back- they occupy the exact same points on the field. Again, I am indifferent whether he returns really - its not going to make a huge difference in 2021 but if he wants to return I would consider it.

[Mightyjoe]

williams had 4 goals on 31 shots and who knows how many of those goals were after it didn't matter against the non towson/msm part of the schedule. He was supposed to be an offensive leader this year and they couldn't put it together. He got a few to save an msm game but that "win" felt more like a loss. Results are what they are. I'd rather give a kid who's going to play the next 2-3 years that time next spring rather than someone who has been here and mostly didn't show up in the 4 biggest games of the season.

Yes - he is singularly responsible for all those losses. I thought lacrosse was 10 vs. 10 but my math must be off. With a 1 legged Epstein - pray tell who was there to help him and take the pressure off in those 4 games?
Baskin 4-13
DeSimone 1-11
Smith 5-14 (2 of those goals after issue was decided against Loyola)
Zinn 4-28

Only Degnon 6-16 and Murphy (all 3 goals against Syracuse after score became 12-4 and 2 of 3 goals against Princeton after score became 13-7) were somewhat notable exceptions If Williams can dodge against a sole defender and the slide has to worry about what he's leaving - he'll do some damage. He's unfortunately proven he is not the most accurate of shooters but he could fit in well with Epstein at X and Murphy on the other side. His vision and passing are improving. If you are in the camp that Grimes never leaves the field than you pretty much don't want Williams back- they occupy the exact same points on the field. Again, I am indifferent whether he returns really - its not going to make a huge difference in 2021 but if he wants to return I would consider it.

Agree. I’ll go with Degnon and Murphy (somewhat). However, no one was really scoring when it mattered against the teams that mattered.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

An opening at Hopkins might be a once in a career opportunity for some potential new coach.

And the expectations aren’t unreasonable:

Be more competitive. Period.

[Farfromgeneva]

I know for a fact that not all head or major assistant coaches think that. Type of thinking that gets a fan base in trouble and in some ways contributes to the situation at hand. Deski hasn’t done much more than Petro last half dozen years and you don’t hear the same movement or conversation up there which makes it easier to have a year like this one was shaping up to be at this stage in their respective tenures.

[Sagittarius A*]

Desko seems to get more out of less to me. He doesn't have all the highly ranked classes that Petro gets, yet his team is competitive and fun to watch. His team had the #1 ranking in 2020. If you are in a contract year and your team needs a ton of luck to reach 2-4 and you weren't even competitive in the four losses, your head is on the chopping block. After an offseason of competition and soul searching the Jays came back unable to compete and dropped out of the top 20. Hopkins has it's challenges but the position hasn't opened up in 20 years and I'm betting there will be no shortage of applicants for the job.

[HopFan16]

I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

I agree it's definitely far from a sure thing, I don't doubt Raymond likes his current situation and that it would take a lot to get him to leave, but this part here that I've quoted I do not see the same way at all. Hypothetically speaking, let's say Petro is shown the door and the school reaches out to Raymond about an interview. Raymond is not just going to say no immediately, out of loyalty to Petro or any other reason. He's going to call Petro and tell him what's going on, and Petro, being the magnanimous guy that he is, will tell Raymond to go ahead and pursue it if he's interested. He is not one to stand in the way of a huge opportunity for a good young coach, especially one who once played for him.

Also, regarding "unrealistic expectations." I get that Hopkins alums can be a bit much—ESPECIALLY some on this forum—but I actually don't think very many people have unrealistic expectations at all. You're mistaking frustration for unreasonableness. Nobody is expecting a return to the glory days of the 80s or mid 2000s. I think at this point most of us would settle for just generally being more competitive than we are. Fewer blowouts, a quarterfinal here, a Final Four there. But they are not even meeting that relatively low bar. Anything lower and you've stopped being Hopkins lacrosse. There needs to be a minimum standard. Petro and whoever the next coach is would certainly agree.

[WHOWHATWHERE]

To me, this is similar to Coach Meade/Navy. It will be the 5th-6th choice and could be a current associate/assistant from another big time program. Chance to reset things and align w schools other athletic programs. It’s the coach who gets the job after the next coach who will thrive....

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

BS. The next person will have every opportunity to succeed, and could very well blossom in comparison.

Fear of otherwise is absolutely no reason to maintain the status quo.

[Farfromgeneva]

I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

I agree it's definitely far from a sure thing, I don't doubt Raymond likes his current situation and that it would take a lot to get him to leave, but this part here that I've quoted I do not see the same way at all. Hypothetically speaking, let's say Petro is shown the door and the school reaches out to Raymond about an interview. Raymond is not just going to say no immediately, out of loyalty to Petro or any other reason. He's going to call Petro and tell him what's going on, and Petro, being the magnanimous guy that he is, will tell Raymond to go ahead and pursue it if he's interested. He is not one to stand in the way of a huge opportunity for a good young coach, especially one who once played for him.

Also, regarding "unrealistic expectations." I get that Hopkins alums can be a bit much—ESPECIALLY some on this forum—but I actually don't think very many people have unrealistic expectations at all. You're mistaking frustration for unreasonableness. Nobody is expecting a return to the glory days of the 80s or mid 2000s. I think at this point most of us would settle for just generally being more competitive than we are. Fewer blowouts, a quarterfinal here, a Final Four there. But they are not even meeting that relatively low bar. Anything lower and you've stopped being Hopkins lacrosse. There needs to be a minimum standard. Petro and whoever the next coach is would certainly agree.

It’s how Petro is shown the door that matters being my point. Some may hate the guy, maybe he deserves it, but when you take his contributions into account as both player and coach, if he’s shown the door in a unprofessional or unceremonious manner that is going to cause a lot of pause. Even alums are looking to see how the situation is handled I am sure of in 1-2 situations before they’re even consider the gig.

Point being make sure you kick Coach P to the curb the right way. It’s necessary to your next move.

[jhu06]

I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

Anyone who approaches this job or any job with a fetal position mindset is going to fail anyway and I don't want them. I want a coach who craves silencing the dome, long happy bus rides back from chapel hill, craves turtle soup, wants to treat greyhounds the way vick treated his dogs, who brings fake Sun Tuesday after memorial day newspapers with "Jays Squawk again as Champs"headlines to his interviews. Anything less and enjoy the caa bro. I want coach orgeron. seems to work for LSU. Lets go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC2ZQD3r9VI

[steel_hop]

I also don't think you understand the reservations any alum would have coming to hop, Coach R is incredibly loyal to Coach P and has no interest in the pressure of performing as an alum to unrealistic expectations.

I agree it's definitely far from a sure thing, I don't doubt Raymond likes his current situation and that it would take a lot to get him to leave, but this part here that I've quoted I do not see the same way at all. Hypothetically speaking, let's say Petro is shown the door and the school reaches out to Raymond about an interview. Raymond is not just going to say no immediately, out of loyalty to Petro or any other reason. He's going to call Petro and tell him what's going on, and Petro, being the magnanimous guy that he is, will tell Raymond to go ahead and pursue it if he's interested. He is not one to stand in the way of a huge opportunity for a good young coach, especially one who once played for him.

Also, regarding "unrealistic expectations." I get that Hopkins alums can be a bit much—ESPECIALLY some on this forum—but I actually don't think very many people have unrealistic expectations at all. You're mistaking frustration for unreasonableness. Nobody is expecting a return to the glory days of the 80s or mid 2000s. I think at this point most of us would settle for just generally being more competitive than we are. Fewer blowouts, a quarterfinal here, a Final Four there. But they are not even meeting that relatively low bar. Anything lower and you've stopped being Hopkins lacrosse. There needs to be a minimum standard. Petro and whoever the next coach is would certainly agree.

It’s how Petro is shown the door that matters being my point. Some may hate the guy, maybe he deserves it, but when you take his contributions into account as both player and coach, if he’s shown the door in a unprofessional or unceremonious manner that is going to cause a lot of pause. Even alums are looking to see how the situation is handled I am sure of in 1-2 situations before they’re even consider the gig.

Point being make sure you kick Coach P to the curb the right way. It’s necessary to your next move.

If Hopkins was kicking him to the curb, they would have done it last year with a year left on his contract. He isn't being kicked anywhere. His contract is not being renewed because of failing to meet performance targets. It isn't like this is a one year issue, this is over a decade - 12 years 1 final four. If you asked DP back in 20089 that if he only made 1 FF over the next 12 seasons, would he expect to be coaching Hopkins in 2021. I suspect he would say "no."

[DocBarrister]

Desko seems to get more out of less to me. He doesn't have all the highly ranked classes that Petro gets, yet his team is competitive and fun to watch. His team had the #1 ranking in 2020. If you are in a contract year and your team needs a ton of luck to reach 2-4 and you weren't even competitive in the four losses, your head is on the chopping block. After an offseason of competition and soul searching the Jays came back unable to compete and dropped out of the top 20. Hopkins has it's challenges but the position hasn't opened up in 20 years and I'm betting there will be no shortage of applicants for the job.

Please ... Desko gets top players. He just got Scanlan, and he has that priceless pipeline from the Onondaga community.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

I would grant Petro a one-year extension if he wants it. He has recruited a great freshman class that will debut next season. Let’s see what a healthy Epstein can do with the team next year.

If Petro can’t win with the talent he will have next season, it’s probably time for a change.

But I would give one of the most important figures in the history of Hopkins lacrosse one more season if he wants it.

DocBarrister