OC,
I graduated from an Academy. Most of my instructors were fighter pilots. They were not shy about saying they could have turned Vietnam into a parking lot if given the green light.
Give a flag draped and neatly folded flag to a kids parents. Worst experience and you live with it the rest of your life. The rules failed him as we could have offed the guy but he always had a kid with him. Explain that to a parent. As stated there needs to be rules and no one would argue that but having a bunch of lawyers making it up as you go is not the right answer IMHO.
Happy 4th
Best
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:45 pm
by MDlaxfan76
LandM wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:24 pm
OC,
I graduated from an Academy. Most of my instructors were fighter pilots. They were not shy about saying they could have turned Vietnam into a parking lot if given the green light.
Could have, shouldn't have.
Give a flag draped and neatly folded flag to a kids parents. Worst experience and you live with it the rest of your life. The rules failed him as we could have offed the guy but he always had a kid with him. Explain that to a parent. As stated there needs to be rules and no one would argue that but having a bunch of lawyers making it up as you go is not the right answer IMHO.
Better yet, wrong war. The shame is that we went in as we did and then didn't get out much faster. Lot of folks died.
Happy 4th
Best
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:24 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Happy 4th of July. Enjoy celebrating our independence from a monarchy. Have a beer and a whisky and appreciate the life and liberty bestowed upon us for the effort of the first continental soldiers. Not sure since that war, we have had to fight for our independence.
Strange times. I won’t be watching the Hail to the King ceremony today. It runs
counter to my American values.
Again, Happy Independence Day all....
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:44 pm
by Trinity
Hundreds have gathered on the Mall, many wearing John McCain Tshirts. Trump Administration calling all hands on deck. Vacations canceled but not even that ingrate Ivanka shows.( Jared was never going.) Not Fleet Week, Salty. Nobody meets the girl of their dreams. The mockery from Russian TV is sad.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:58 am
by OCanada
Sons didn’t go either per reports. Guess they had none spurs
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:07 am
by LandM
MD
Yep and yep
But if you train people to do A then change the rules to B,C,D,E imho you are gonna get what you got
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:22 am
by MDlaxfan76
LandM wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:07 am
MD
Yep and yep
But if you train people to do A then change the rules to B,C,D,E imho you are gonna get what you got
I dunno, pretty sure the rules don't allow for stabbing a bound prisoner. Same for lining people up on the ground and shooting them.
Pretty sure those rules were consistent with the training.
But, listen, I'm fortunate to not have ever been in the cauldron of war. That said, I recognize that the brutalities of the experience can alter perceptions of morality, particularly in the moment. But that's why we have rules to help warriors stay within a given moral framework. Forgiveness of those who go beyond those rules is another matter. We do need to forgive, and to provide mental health help. Doesn't mean no accountability, just a recognition that our psyches are vulnerable.
What bothers me is when people celebrate the breaking of rules, violating moral boundaries.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:49 am
by ABV 8.3%
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:05 am
Which is why it’s so important to prosecute those who cross those lines.
I preface this with the acknowledgement that I didn’t serve. My draft number was 33, but my birth year was the first year in which no draft numbers were called to serve.
The first line is easy - no “trophy photos” should ever be taken. It seems to me that Gallagher’s conviction on that charge was right.
As for the dead ISIS kid, it seems from what I’ve read that the combatant was alive when captured. If that team could have moved him as a POW, they should have. If moving him, or releasing him, would have jeopardized the mission (think Marcus Lutrell or the German soldier released in the fictional Saving Private Ryan, only to return to combat to kill one of the soldiers who released him), I believe a fast death would be an acceptable solution. Fast in my book isn’t a stab to the neck if Gallagher did that or suffocation if we believe the medic who changed from his expected testimony.
I don’t know if that solution meets with international law or our UCMJ, but it meets with what I believe would be my ethics if I were in that situation.
Admiral McRaven (make your BED guy ) made it VERY clear that after they allegedly killed Bin Laden, they took trophy photos. cough cough. To "confirm" that it was Bin Laden, they had a SEAL lie down next to him, to verify it was him, based on height
NSA/CIA/FBI/ the Bush family......they don't have any DNA on the guy and couldn't just take some bodily fluids from the POS ?????
Michael Flynn
H.R. McMaster
Rex Tillerson,
Jim Mattis
John Kelly
Kirstjen Nielson
Mike Rogers.
K.T. McFarland
Nikki Haley.
Coats
Gordon
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:09 pm
by youthathletics
Interesting article. Noteworthy is that the "leaking" has all but stopped coming out of the white house.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:03 pm
by old salt
Much of the change has been prompted by the war within the IC'.
Mike Rogers served his full 4 year tour of duty at NSA (despite Clapper's attempt to fire him) & was replaced by another military flag officer.
Flynn & McFarland would still be serving had the IC not fragged them. That's what started the dominoes falling.
Gordon would likely still be there too, since Flynn selected him. McMaster would never have been chosen.
Sessions & Rosenstein were casualties of the Russia collusion hoax.
Coats needed to go before Barr calls the IC to account.
Bob Gates sold Tillerson to Trump. He was a bad fit for the job, no matter who was the President.
Kelly & Nielsen would likely still be at DHS had he not stepped into the breach as CoS.
Haley got her ticket punched & saw no political upside to staying longer.
Given the way things are playing out in Syria, Mattis was wrong to resign over that.
The Actings have served well.
Afghanistan too.
If they come out from under their rocks, into the open, they're easier to target -- especially from the air.
We're no longer in the nation building business.
It's now the most cost effective terrorist extermination strategy.
The Special Operators, their helos, drones & strike aircraft are not coming home.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:20 am
by Trinity
Business Insider has a great video posted on Day One at USNA, haircuts and everything. I’m sorry I don’t know how to link it.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:03 am
by youthathletics
Trinity wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:20 am
Business Insider has a great video posted on Day One at USNA, haircuts and everything. I’m sorry I don’t know how to link it.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:34 am
by Trinity
Thanks.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:24 pm
by cradleandshoot
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/06/politics ... index.html I was not sure where else to post this. SEALS are elite soldiers but they are also human beings. I have no idea what the particular allegations are but when you put even the most highly trained soldiers into harms way... they will act like soldiers and sailors will do. My father talked about all of the French wine and cognac they liberated as they fought their way through France. I suppose when everyday of your life people out there on the other side are shooting at you and trying to kill you. You really don't give a flying fig about political correctness. You live for the day. In WW2 the GIs didn't think about coming home. You lived everyday knowing that you were already dead. Why is that? because the hope of coming home will get you killed.
Ronald Spiers: The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you’re already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you’ll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function: without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends upon it.
Band of Brothers... if you have not watched it you should.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:33 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:24 pmhttps://www.cnn.com/2019/09/06/politics ... index.html I was not sure where else to post this. SEALS are elite soldiers but they are also human beings. I have no idea what the particular allegations are but when you put even the most highly trained soldiers into harms way... they will act like soldiers and sailors will do. My father talked about all of the French wine and cognac they liberated as they fought their way through France. I suppose when everyday of your life people out there on the other side are shooting at you and trying to kill you. You really don't give a flying fig about political correctness. You live for the day. In WW2 the GIs didn't think about coming home. You lived everyday knowing that you were already dead. Why is that? because the hope of coming home will get you killed.
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:24 pmhttps://www.cnn.com/2019/09/06/politics ... index.html I was not sure where else to post this. SEALS are elite soldiers but they are also human beings. I have no idea what the particular allegations are but when you put even the most highly trained soldiers into harms way... they will act like soldiers and sailors will do. My father talked about all of the French wine and cognac they liberated as they fought their way through France. I suppose when everyday of your life people out there on the other side are shooting at you and trying to kill you. You really don't give a flying fig about political correctness. You live for the day. In WW2 the GIs didn't think about coming home. You lived everyday knowing that you were already dead. Why is that? because the hope of coming home will get you killed.
Don't worry TLD... there will always be brave men and women out there willing to give their lives for chicken s**t individuals such as yourself.
