All Things Russia & Ukraine

[a fan]

NATO & EU nations fomented "color" revolutions & regime changes in Georgia & Ukraine (twice). That's why Putin opposes NATO expansion to his borders. He fears western inspired revolutions in Belarus & Russia next. ...not without cause.

I don't think NATO expansion would impact Western attempts at inspiring revolution or regime change in Belarus or Russia. Any such efforts could occur whether or not Ukraine joins NATO.

Inspiring revolutions, interfering with elections? Russia has interfered with our elections and we haven't invaded Russia. Russia has fomented regime change in Ukraine. That the West may try to inspire revolutions in Russia, well, that's just life on Planet Earth. Everybody does it. Nobody but Russia invades their neighbor.

But most fundamentally, how would Putin's invading Ukraine prevent the West from inspiring revolution in Russia? If anything, I would think it would have the opposite effect.

None of this fake "reasoning" makes even a lick of sense. Put these policy wonks in front of me for ten minutes with a microphone.....I'll shred their nonsense in ten seconds.

These guys are an embarrassment to "think tanks". Jeezus.

[old salt]

NATO & EU nations fomented "color" revolutions & regime changes in Georgia & Ukraine (twice). That's why Putin opposes NATO expansion to his borders. He fears western inspired revolutions in Belarus & Russia next. ...not without cause.

I don't think NATO expansion would impact Western attempts at inspiring revolution or regime change in Belarus or Russia. Any such efforts could occur whether or not Ukraine joins NATO.

Inspiring revolutions, interfering with elections? Russia has interfered with our elections and we haven't invaded Russia. Russia has fomented regime change in Ukraine. That the West may try to inspire revolutions in Russia, well, that's just life on Planet Earth. Everybody does it. Nobody but Russia invades their neighbor.

But most fundamentally, how would Putin's invading Ukraine prevent the West from inspiring revolution in Russia? If anything, I would think it would have the opposite effect.

None of this fake "reasoning" makes even a lick of sense. Put these policy wonks in front of me for ten minutes with a microphone.....I'll shred their nonsense in ten seconds.

These guys are an embarrassment to "think tanks". Jeezus.

It puts a NATO adversary on historically Russian territory, much closer to Moscow.
It makes Russia's Black Sea Fleet's primary naval base a NATO base.

[Kismet]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

The usual deflection which is why your credibility is often questioned. I think you just like to argue with people.

[old salt]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

The usual deflection which is why your credibility is often questioned. I think you just like to argue with people.

I was trying to keep it nonpartisan. Little hope for that.

[a fan]

It puts a NATO adversary on historically Russian territory, much closer to Moscow.
It makes Russia's Black Sea Fleet's primary naval base a NATO base.

That's great.

My counter, again is: if Putin annexes Ukraine, he's now putting four brand new NATO countries on his border...and "historically" Russian territory. So.....that STILL doesn't solve this fake problem of his.

And again: so what? Is Ukraine sovereign, or not? That's where this whole story falls apart. The ONLY answer you can give is: yes. And this renders everything else mute. Putin and the rest of the world doesn't get to make these calls, sorry. They lost that right when the Soviet Union dissolved.

And notice all the policy wonks are 100% across the board white guys in their 60's+. All looking at this from the same 20th century lense, just like Putin. The 80's called. Its has simply not occurred to them that Putin is the problem here, and a smarter, younger, wiser Russian leader would have picked up that reset button from Hillary, and brought Russia into the 21st century.

I've said this to you for DECADES now: What the heck good does it do the Russian people that Putin is wasting billions of dollars on submarines in Syria, and mucking up elections in America and Ukraine? It does NOTHING for them, but let a bunch of old Soviets desperate to cling to the past that they thought was better. This nonsense does NOTHING for the children of Russia.

It's sad. And Putin and the Russian people are now paying a generational price for Putin's choice to play Soviet Imperialist instead of a wise, peaceful leader.

[a fan]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

The usual deflection which is why your credibility is often questioned. I think you just like to argue with people.

I was trying to keep it nonpartisan. Little hope for that.

And we'd buy that if a. you weren't asking Biden to be perfect, and b. you had criticized Trump's foreign policy moves just ONCE in four years. You NEVER call balls and strikes when it comes to Presidents.

[old salt]

It puts a NATO adversary on historically Russian territory, much closer to Moscow.
It makes Russia's Black Sea Fleet's primary naval base a NATO base.

That's great.

My counter, again is: if Putin annexes Ukraine, he's now put four brand new NATO countries on his border...and "historically" Russian territory. So.....that STILL doesn't solve this fake problem of his.

And again: so what? Is Ukraine sovereign, or not? That's where this whole story falls apart. The ONLY answer you can give is: yes. And this renders everything else mute. Putin and the rest of the world doesn't get to make these calls, sorry. They lost that right when the Soviet Union dissolved.

And notice all the policy wonks are 100% across the board white guys in their 60's+. All looking at this from the same 20th century lense, just like Putin. The 80's called. Its has simply not occurred to them that Putin is the problem here, and a smarter, younger, wiser Russian leader would have picked up that reset button from Hillary, and brought Russia into the 21st century.

I've said this to you for DECADES now: What the heck good does it do the Russian people that Putin is wasting billions of dollars on submarines in Syria, and mucking up elections in America and Ukraine? It does NOTHING for them, but let a bunch of old Soviets desperate to cling to the past that they thought was better. This nonsense does NOTHING for the children of Russia.

It's sad. And Putin and the Russian people are now paying a generational price for Putin's choice to play Soviet Imperialist instead of a wise, peaceful leader.

Putin's not going to annex all of Ukraine. It will survive as a nation. He won't be able to take & hold the entire country. He'll be hard pressed to retain what he's already taken. Any deal that Putin accepts will stipulate that Ukraine does not join NATO in the future, depending on whether or not he has any leverage to negotiate terms.

Maybe a Russian version of Mayor Pete, Beto or AOC will emerge as Putin's successor.

[old salt]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

The usual deflection which is why your credibility is often questioned. I think you just like to argue with people.

I was trying to keep it nonpartisan. Little hope for that.

And we'd buy that if a. you weren't asking Biden to be perfect, and b. you had criticized Trump's foreign policy moves just ONCE in four years. You NEVER call balls and strikes when it comes to Presidents.

I did not mention Biden until you did.

[a fan]

Putin's not going to annex all of Ukraine.

That's true NOW. But Putin and your neocon policy wonks thought he'd be in Kiev a few hours into the invasion.

His intent was to put four NATO countries on his border. Which makes his claims of "not wanting NATO on his border" into the barrel-full of stupid that it is.

It will survive as a nation. He won't be able to take & hold the entire country. He'll be hard pressed to retain what he's already taken. Any deal that Putin accepts will stipulate that Ukraine does not join NATO in the future, depending on whether or not he has any leverage to negotiate terms.

You think any paper signed will be honored? Putin ALREADY violated previous agreements.

Maybe a Russian version of Mayor Pete, Beto or AOC will emerge as Putin's successor.

You're in the party of Trump. Please, by all means, act like you're in the party that has it all figured out, and is in a sooper awesome place to criticize any path other than the sh*tshow of a path your team has put us on OS.

What's the plan for your party OS? Send MORE money to the coastal libs and their kids heading to those elite colleges? Cut their taxes more, as flyover America sinks into even further irrelevance?

Your team has single handedly destroyed working class America, and enabled big city libs to leave flyover America in the dust.

So please, by all means----keep on keepin' on with those trickle down Republican policies. I'll buy a few more houses when your man DeSantis takes over, while he suckers you in with promises of "fixing immigration", without bringing a single bill to the floor in four years.

[old salt]

Putin's not going to annex all of Ukraine.

That's true NOW. But Putin and your neocon policy wonks thought he'd be in Kiev a few hours into the invasion.
Everybody did. That's why we offered him a flight to Poland to set up his govt in exile.

His intent was to put four NATO countries on his border. Which makes his claims of "not wanting NATO on his border" into the barrel-full of stupid that it is.No. His plan was to keep the Donbas, Crimes & a land bridge as part of Russia. Install a puppet govt in Kiev & keep Ukraine as an ally buffer state, as he has with Belarus.

It will survive as a nation. He won't be able to take & hold the entire country. He'll be hard pressed to retain what he's already taken. Any deal that Putin accepts will stipulate that Ukraine does not join NATO in the future, depending on whether or not he has any leverage to negotiate terms.

You think any paper signed will be honored? Putin ALREADY violated previous agreements.
That's why Ukraine will be armed sufficiently to deter a reinvasion.

Maybe a Russian version of Mayor Pete, Beto or AOC will emerge as Putin's successor.

You're in the party of Trump. Please, by all means, act like you're in the party that has it all figured out, and is in a sooper awesome place to criticize any path other than the sh*tshow of a path your team has put us on OS.

What's the plan for your party OS? Send MORE money to the coastal libs and their kids heading to those elite colleges? Cut their taxes more, as flyover America sinks into even further irrelevance?
You're right about the think tanks having too many '60 yr old white guys. They need more young gender-fluid think tankers of color. The luggage snatcher puppy boy the Biden admin just fired should go to Brookings to replace the Russian spy they lost.

Your team has single handedly destroyed working class America, and enabled big city libs to leave flyover America in the dust.
Right. Clinton's policies & (D) controlled Congress had nothing to do with all those jobs off-shored.

So please, by all means----keep on keepin' on with those trickle down Republican policies. I'll buy a few more houses when your man DeSantis takes over, while he suckers you in with promises of "fixing immigration", without bringing a single bill to the floor in four years.
The Dems have controlled the WH & both Houses of Congress for the last 2 years.

[a fan]

No. His plan was to keep the Donbas, Crimes & a land bridge as part of Russia. Install a puppet govt in Kiev & keep Ukraine as an ally buffer state, as he has with Belarus.

According to who? Get that one in a fortune cookie?

That's why Ukraine will be armed sufficiently to deter a reinvasion.

And also why they refuse to cede territory.

You're right about the think tanks having too many '60 yr old white guys. They need more young gender-fluid think tankers of color. .

Oh, they can keep the white guys if that floats your boat. Just bring in someone who doesn't need to call their kids to figure out how their computer works so that they can think in 21st century terms.

Right. Clinton's policies & (D) controlled Congress had nothing to do with all those jobs off-shored.

Gas on an already burning fire, you're right. But trade deals are footnotes if you already have union busting, trickle down economics, and deregulation as pillars of your economic theory, my man. And they are STILL pillars here in 2022. Some in the Dem party are waking up to the destruction of the American working class. To wit: your man Bernie, the guy who tried to install the economic policies that YOU told me you championed. You should have registered as a Dem, and voted for the guy in the primary....he tried to give you what you're claiming you want. The R's are doing the OPPOSITE of what you CLAIM you want.

The Dems have controlled the WH & both Houses of Congress for the last 2 years.

Yep. And we FINALLY got a small infrastructure bill that sends BILLIONS to flyover and rural America...that your team cut in half, because they're idiots. But that doesn't change my point: What the heck do you think DeSantis is gonna do when he wins?

Steak dinner says he cuts my taxes, and leaves the American working class twisting in the wind, making him the 5th straight Republican President to do so.....

[MDlaxfan76]

Could you share with us any posts 6 months or longer ago when you were saying we should send them Patriots asap?

I don't recall them, but I'm getting old and foggy at times.

My recollection is more that you were in the camp of not sending more of our highest tech military capabilities, that such would be 'provocative' etc, etc I realize that you may have been talking more about offensive weaponry (I was arguing that such was needed to actually beat back Russia and ultimately force them out) but I don't recall calls from you re Patriot systems.

I never thought Biden would buck DoD on this, which is why I was for giving them to NATO allies to backfill for their S-300's & other Soviet legacy air defense systems. They're not provocative. They're defensive only. They can't strike into Russia like cruise missiles or our drones could. The drones are the technology we don't want compromised. The Patriots are mobile & far enough behind front lines that the odds of them being captured are minimal.

So, you didn't call for Patriots to Ukraine.
But thought sending to other NATO countries was fine...'cause it's ok if Ukraine falls, just not NATO countries...
I saw it as a way to backfill NATO allies, so they'd give up their Soviet legacy systems that Ukraine could use immediately.
Because of DoD's objections, Patriots were never under serious discussion, except for pleas for them from Ukraine & Poland + some Baltic state(s) on behalf of Ukraine. I did not address it because I did not think it was ever within the realm of possibility. I would have been for it if it was ever raised as a possibility. I was surprised that Biden relented. I suspect the damage done by Russia's recent missile barrages has prompted Biden to reconsider & override DoD. Things must be looking grim for Ukraine as a result of the missile & drone attacks on the infrastructure. Like the Predator/Reaper drones & manned aircraft like F-16's, I figured Patriots were off limits. But, if asked, I would differentiate them from those other offensive weapons. I'm enthusiastic now because I think they can be a game changer (& prompt Putin to negotiate) if they can be deployed quickly enough to make a difference.

Yup, I'm in the camp of providing Ukraine with the weaponry we would use to take back Ukraine's territory. Yes, they will have losses...they have a lot now. But winning this faster is better than slower.
It might not matter if we can't stop the missile/drone attacks. That's why all the pleas have switched to air defense systems, rather than for what's needed to mount a counteroffensive. We (Ukraine & US/NATO) are on our back foot right now.

Appeasement is not the answer, especially with these rationales of "it's really Russia anyway"...
It's not appeasement if you can't prevail on the battlefield or if the cost of continuing is prohibitive.

First of all, it sure looks like Ukraine is prevailing on the battlefield. They have multiple offensives underway, Russian morale is horrendous...that said, there's going to be some back and forth, mostly stalemate until after winter...unless there's a surprise.

I realize that you want, and have wanted from inception, for Russia to regain its 'lost vassals' as the preferred option to war.

My point is that you were silent about Patriots, its hypocritical to condemn Biden, or DoD for that matter, when you wanted Ukraine to simply surrender land in exchange for 'peace', a possibility that's never even been remotely on the table from Putin. The only peace he's offered is elimination of Ukraine as a sovereign nation.

That's just wrong. I've always been for giving Ukraine as much DEFENSIVE weaponry as they could operate, without danger of it being captured & compromised.

I repeat. I want an outcome that assures Ukraine's survival, with stable, defensible borders & access to the Black Sea.
I respect Russia's claim to Crimea, & the need for autonomy in the Donbas.
We didn't care about Crimea for 8 years. Now we're fighting a proxy war for it.
Patriots did not come up as a realistic possibility. There may emerge other options that have not been considered of which I will approve.
I wanted this issue settled peacefully, via the Minsk process, but Ukraine refused to participate.

yup, appeasement of an aggressor.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

When Ukraine expels Russia from its territories, maybe you'll decide to be on the winning side and we can say, "well, better late than never"...

I hope so. I hope Gen Milley is wrong.

obtw -- I don't recall you calling specifically for Patriots either. You wanted offensive weapons like UAV's & ATACMS.

Nope, I wanted everything we could possibly give them to successfully defend, including retake, every inch of their sovereign territory. Completely destroy the aggressor until he wilts and runs in retreat.

Yes, my focus was on what we were saying we were not ready to give them, weapons that could target precisely and destroy command and control and offensive strike capability of the Russians. And whatever sophisticated defensive capabilities, certainly as well...but my emphasis was putting a world of hurt on the Russian military, not pretending that all the Ukrainians could hope for was to not give up too much more land and people destroyed, children deported, gone forever.

I still have that tilt.

That said, I'm not blasting the Biden Admin for slow walking this stuff carefully, step by step, as they are also responsible for marshaling the West's response collectively, not just a unilateral response.

I'd have wanted them to go faster, but I'm not privy to the various factors and rationale for the slow walk.

Bottomline, Putin and his version of Russia have rightfully become pariah, and the Ukrainians are poised to retake their territory decisively. I hope that's what comes to pass and the whiners and appeasers don't win out...

[old salt]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

When Ukraine expels Russia from its territories, maybe you'll decide to be on the winning side and we can say, "well, better late than never"...

I hope so. I hope Gen Milley is wrong.

obtw -- I don't recall you calling specifically for Patriots either. You wanted offensive weapons like UAV's & ATACMS.

Nope, I wanted everything we could possibly give them to successfully defend, including retake, every inch of their sovereign territory. Completely destroy the aggressor until he wilts and runs in retreat.

Yes, my focus was on what we were saying we were not ready to give them, weapons that could target precisely and destroy command and control and offensive strike capability of the Russians. And whatever sophisticated defensive capabilities, certainly as well...but my emphasis was putting a world of hurt on the Russian military, not pretending that all the Ukrainians could hope for was to not give up too much more land and people destroyed, children deported, gone forever.

I still have that tilt.

That said, I'm not blasting the Biden Admin for slow walking this stuff carefully, step by step, as they are also responsible for marshaling the West's response collectively, not just a unilateral response.

I'd have wanted them to go faster, but I'm not privy to the various factors and rationale for the slow walk.

Bottomline, Putin and his version of Russia have rightfully become pariah, and the Ukrainians are poised to retake their territory decisively. I hope that's what comes to pass and the whiners and appeasers don't win out...

i sincerely hope lt works out as you wish, but I can't say that I think it will.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

When Ukraine expels Russia from its territories, maybe you'll decide to be on the winning side and we can say, "well, better late than never"...

I hope so. I hope Gen Milley is wrong.

obtw -- I don't recall you calling specifically for Patriots either. You wanted offensive weapons like UAV's & ATACMS.

Nope, I wanted everything we could possibly give them to successfully defend, including retake, every inch of their sovereign territory. Completely destroy the aggressor until he wilts and runs in retreat.

Yes, my focus was on what we were saying we were not ready to give them, weapons that could target precisely and destroy command and control and offensive strike capability of the Russians. And whatever sophisticated defensive capabilities, certainly as well...but my emphasis was putting a world of hurt on the Russian military, not pretending that all the Ukrainians could hope for was to not give up too much more land and people destroyed, children deported, gone forever.

I still have that tilt.

That said, I'm not blasting the Biden Admin for slow walking this stuff carefully, step by step, as they are also responsible for marshaling the West's response collectively, not just a unilateral response.

I'd have wanted them to go faster, but I'm not privy to the various factors and rationale for the slow walk.

Bottomline, Putin and his version of Russia have rightfully become pariah, and the Ukrainians are poised to retake their territory decisively. I hope that's what comes to pass and the whiners and appeasers don't win out...

i sincerely hope lt works out as you wish, but I can't say that I think it will.

Fair enough.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

When Ukraine expels Russia from its territories, maybe you'll decide to be on the winning side and we can say, "well, better late than never"...

I hope so. I hope Gen Milley is wrong.

obtw -- I don't recall you calling specifically for Patriots either. You wanted offensive weapons like UAV's & ATACMS.

Nope, I wanted everything we could possibly give them to successfully defend, including retake, every inch of their sovereign territory. Completely destroy the aggressor until he wilts and runs in retreat.

Yes, my focus was on what we were saying we were not ready to give them, weapons that could target precisely and destroy command and control and offensive strike capability of the Russians. And whatever sophisticated defensive capabilities, certainly as well...but my emphasis was putting a world of hurt on the Russian military, not pretending that all the Ukrainians could hope for was to not give up too much more land and people destroyed, children deported, gone forever.

I still have that tilt.

That said, I'm not blasting the Biden Admin for slow walking this stuff carefully, step by step, as they are also responsible for marshaling the West's response collectively, not just a unilateral response.

I'd have wanted them to go faster, but I'm not privy to the various factors and rationale for the slow walk.

Bottomline, Putin and his version of Russia have rightfully become pariah, and the Ukrainians are poised to retake their territory decisively. I hope that's what comes to pass and the whiners and appeasers don't win out...

i sincerely hope lt works out as you wish, but I can't say that I think it will.

you meant “hope”.

[PizzaSnake]

Putin's not going to annex all of Ukraine.

That's true NOW. But Putin and your neocon policy wonks thought he'd be in Kiev a few hours into the invasion.
Everybody did. That's why we offered him a flight to Poland to set up his govt in exile.

His intent was to put four NATO countries on his border. Which makes his claims of "not wanting NATO on his border" into the barrel-full of stupid that it is.No. His plan was to keep the Donbas, Crimes & a land bridge as part of Russia. Install a puppet govt in Kiev & keep Ukraine as an ally buffer state, as he has with Belarus.

It will survive as a nation. He won't be able to take & hold the entire country. He'll be hard pressed to retain what he's already taken. Any deal that Putin accepts will stipulate that Ukraine does not join NATO in the future, depending on whether or not he has any leverage to negotiate terms.

You think any paper signed will be honored? Putin ALREADY violated previous agreements.
That's why Ukraine will be armed sufficiently to deter a reinvasion.

Maybe a Russian version of Mayor Pete, Beto or AOC will emerge as Putin's successor.

You're in the party of Trump. Please, by all means, act like you're in the party that has it all figured out, and is in a sooper awesome place to criticize any path other than the sh*tshow of a path your team has put us on OS.

What's the plan for your party OS? Send MORE money to the coastal libs and their kids heading to those elite colleges? Cut their taxes more, as flyover America sinks into even further irrelevance?
You're right about the think tanks having too many '60 yr old white guys. They need more young gender-fluid think tankers of color. The luggage snatcher puppy boy the Biden admin just fired should go to Brookings to replace the Russian spy they lost.



Your team has single handedly destroyed working class America, and enabled big city libs to leave flyover America in the dust.
Right. Clinton's policies & (D) controlled Congress had nothing to do with all those jobs off-shored.

So please, by all means----keep on keepin' on with those trickle down Republican policies. I'll buy a few more houses when your man DeSantis takes over, while he suckers you in with promises of "fixing immigration", without bringing a single bill to the floor in four years.
The Dems have controlled the WH & both Houses of Congress for the last 2 years.

"That's why Ukraine will be armed sufficiently to deter a reinvasion."

You got some huevos, friend. Who the fcuk are you to determine another sovereign nation's fate? My father's admonition about USNA grads appears to be correct.

Your malignant narcissism is starting to show. But hey, explains your affinity for tRumply -- birds of the feather flock together.

[old salt]

Putin's not going to annex all of Ukraine.

That's true NOW. But Putin and your neocon policy wonks thought he'd be in Kiev a few hours into the invasion.

Everybody did. That's why we offered him a flight to Poland to set up his govt in exile.

His intent was to put four NATO countries on his border. Which makes his claims of "not wanting NATO on his border" into the barrel-full of stupid that it is.No. His plan was to keep the Donbas, Crimes & a land bridge as part of Russia. Install a puppet govt in Kiev & keep Ukraine as an ally buffer state, as he has with Belarus.

It will survive as a nation. He won't be able to take & hold the entire country. He'll be hard pressed to retain what he's already taken. Any deal that Putin accepts will stipulate that Ukraine does not join NATO in the future, depending on whether or not he has any leverage to negotiate terms.

You think any paper signed will be honored? Putin ALREADY violated previous agreements.
That's why Ukraine will be armed sufficiently to deter a reinvasion.

"That's why Ukraine will be armed sufficiently to deter a reinvasion."

You got some huevos, friend. Who the fcuk are you to determine another sovereign nation's fate? My father's admonition about USNA grads appears to be correct.

Your malignant narcissism is starting to show. But hey, explains your affinity for tRumply -- birds of the feather flock together.

...you think the US & NATO won't continue to provide Ukraine what they need to defend themselves sufficiently to deter a Russian re-invasion. Have you been following the speeches in the EU Parliament ? German Chancellor Scholz has pledged to provide a "ring of steel" to protect Ukraine. Who do you think is determining Ukraine's fate ? The US & allies who are bankrolling them. They are our proxies.

[old salt]

I'm giving Biden credit for FINALLY doing this . ...it's just 6 mos too late. I want the war ended asap & this will help/

Exactly what I've been saying: you want Biden to be PERFECT. In your world, he and his advisors aren't allowed to think, or consider options and the consequences of their actions. He has to shoot first, think later, and if he doesn't, you're all over him.

How many times have you mocked me, saying "the perfect is the enemy of the good".

Funny how you failed to mention that 48 hours ago.

So I cheered the decision without specifically mentioning Biden.
If I had, I would have had to include -- " better late than never ".

When Ukraine expels Russia from its territories, maybe you'll decide to be on the winning side and we can say, "well, better late than never"...

I hope so. I hope Gen Milley is wrong.

obtw -- I don't recall you calling specifically for Patriots either. You wanted offensive weapons like UAV's & ATACMS.

Nope, I wanted everything we could possibly give them to successfully defend, including retake, every inch of their sovereign territory. Completely destroy the aggressor until he wilts and runs in retreat.

Yes, my focus was on what we were saying we were not ready to give them, weapons that could target precisely and destroy command and control and offensive strike capability of the Russians. And whatever sophisticated defensive capabilities, certainly as well...but my emphasis was putting a world of hurt on the Russian military, not pretending that all the Ukrainians could hope for was to not give up too much more land and people destroyed, children deported, gone forever.

I still have that tilt.

That said, I'm not blasting the Biden Admin for slow walking this stuff carefully, step by step, as they are also responsible for marshaling the West's response collectively, not just a unilateral response.

I'd have wanted them to go faster, but I'm not privy to the various factors and rationale for the slow walk.

Bottomline, Putin and his version of Russia have rightfully become pariah, and the Ukrainians are poised to retake their territory decisively. I hope that's what comes to pass and the whiners and appeasers don't win out...

i sincerely hope lt works out as you wish, but I can't say that I think it will.

you meant “hope”.

I'm giving my best guess on how this will end. Why don't you do the same.

[old salt]

Your team has single handedly destroyed working class America, and enabled big city libs to leave flyover America in the dust.

Right. Clinton's policies & (D) controlled Congress had nothing to do with all those jobs off-shored.

Gas on an already burning fire, you're right. But trade deals are footnotes if you already have union busting, trickle down economics, and deregulation as pillars of your economic theory, my man. And they are STILL pillars here in 2022. Some in the Dem party are waking up to the destruction of the American working class. To wit: your man Bernie, the guy who tried to install the economic policies that YOU told me you championed. You should have registered as a Dem, and voted for the guy in the primary....he tried to give you what you're claiming you want. The R's are doing the OPPOSITE of what you CLAIM you want. I voted for Pat Buchanan in the '90's & with Reagan Democrats before that.
And we FINALLY got a small infrastructure bill that sends BILLIONS to flyover and rural America...that your team cut in half, because they're idiots.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... y-ukraine/

Opinion : American protectionism could imperil a golden era of Western unity

By Fareed Zakaria, Columnist, December 8, 2022

The United States and Europe find themselves in a closer alliance than at any point in many decades. France has long been the European nation most reluctant to play junior partner in an American-led enterprise. In his first years in office, President Emmanuel Macron did his best to display his Gaullist credentials, describing NATO as “brain dead” and declaring his greatest priority to be developing Europe’s “strategic autonomy,” which he defined, in part, as separate from the United States.

Contrast that with Macron’s remarks in November, when he talked about NATO as a cornerstone of French and European security. While in Washington last week, he described the new goal for the continent as “strategic intimacy” with Washington and spoke of the need for even deeper cooperation. When the French president starts sounding like the British prime minister, it is worth paying attention.

And it’s not just Macron. Germany’s Olaf Scholz has sounded a clarion call for Western unity in the pages of Foreign Affairs. For those wondering whether Germany’s declared shift in foreign policy earlier this year was a momentary reaction to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Scholz makes clear that he believes we are at the “end of an era” of peace. He underlined the massive turnaround in German foreign policy — chiefly the creation of a roughly $100 billion fund to upgrade the German armed forces, which he called “the starkest change in German security policy since ... 1955.” The break with precedent was so dramatic that Germany had to amend its constitution to make it possible.

The “epochal tectonic shift,” as Scholz describes it, has been triggered by the Russian invasion. But it is also a response to the dawning of a new age of great power competition — a recognition that the rules-based international order built by the United States and Europe is in danger of crumbling, as countries such as Russia and China (and others) break those rules, push for their own unilateral advantage, and precipitate a return to a world where might makes right.

The Russian invasion explains much of this, but the Biden administration deserves much credit for how it has handled that challenge. Until now, Washington has managed to rally large parts of the world to oppose Russian President Vladimir Putin’s aggression. The United States has persuaded most of its allies to act forcefully to punish Russia, and many others to at least aid Ukraine. All this has helped to create a moment of unusual Western unity that could help restore and rebuild a rules-based international system.

But these successes can still be squandered by America’s own unilateralism and pursuit of narrow self-interest. European leaders have been dismayed by how protectionist the Biden administration has turned out to be in its economic policy, putting “Buy American” provisions in many of its spending bills and showering subsidies on green technology produced in the United States. All of these measures are violations of the rules governing open markets and free trade that are at the heart of the international system that Washington has sponsored since the late 1940s. France’s finance minister complained that Washington is copying China’s government-led industrial policy. A senior European Union official pulled out of a U.S.-E.U. summit on the issue because he felt that the agenda showed that Washington did not care about the E.U.’s concerns.

The tensions are going to grow because Europe’s pain is only going to get worse. Facing natural gas prices that are seven times higher and electricity prices 10 times higher than in the previous two decades, many European firms are finding that they simply cannot compete. The Financial Times reports that there is a genuine risk of the deindustrialization of Germany if major industries, including chemicals and auto manufacturing, move more factories overseas to the United States or China. Europeans are enraged by what they see as rank American hypocrisy. As one statesman said to me, “We are constantly being lectured by Americans that we must all uphold the rules-based international system — only to then see Washington announce measures that are in total violation of the core principles of that order.”

As the pain for ordinary Europeans grows, and as their companies move production to America, the friction will make it harder to get sustained cooperation from Europe on Russia. Europe will also be less likely to take a tough and united stand on China, a market that will become increasingly vital to the continent’s economic future. And, as European nations and others start retaliating against American protectionism with their own provisions, the open international system will start shutting down.

When people like me raise objections to protectionism and economic nationalism, we are often dismissed as being naive about the domestic politics of this issue. Democrats are doing this, so the argument goes, to help American workers and thus stem the tide of right-wing populism. The trouble with the argument is that the working class has abandoned the Democratic Party, largely on cultural issues.

It is true elsewhere as well. Look at France, where workers are coddled, or Sweden, with its generous welfare and training programs: Both have growing right-wing populist parties, largely fueled by issues such as immigration, race and education. Assuming that people can be swayed from their fervently held beliefs because of a few government subsidies might be the more naive view.