All things CoronaVirus

[3rdPersonPlural]

Here is the sort of stuff the Trump campaign money is producing:

It's professionally produced, and I can assure you that the production budget for this piece alone is more than most of us gross in any 24 month period. This isn't grassroots agitation. Turn your speakers up.

Bill Gates the philanthropist is being roped in as a bad guy. Usually he is lumped in with the Clinton Foundation and Soros.

It is well written and produced. This isn't a grass roots endeavor. The editing is artful. The audio is tight as a drum.

Curious data like '98% of us could have already had this virus!!!' are tossed in without comment as if it is an established fact.
The objections are carefully couched as questions. The villains are from the standard portfolio of right wing bad guys. There are gobs of straw-man arguments. Abortion is thrown up as a crisis ignored by the scientists. All the tropes.....

Is this an attempt to keep us all from worshiping????? Science is atheist, ya know!!

Fauci is described as a leftist gay-supporting liberal. That the Gates Foundation works with him marks him as a baby killer! Fauci is just a puppet of the liberal gay lovin' contraception lovin' immigrant supportin' philanthropy of rich liberal fools!!

But this is why Trumpets are out protesting. Trump stands against anti life anti nationalist pro commonist pro evil forces, and scientists leaning on him to make a fake pandemic a reason to shut off his blossoming economy just shows how all elitists are aligned against the great patriot Trump!

If you want to know what the right wing money is promoting right now, watch this:

Heck of a video. It is fortunate that Trump is the President, he is the only one, the chosen one, who can save us from all this. Whatever he says, however he says it, whatever he does, however he does it, is necessary for the survival of our country. He is the ultimate patriot, has the greatest vision, and a committment to the well being of the country like no other American. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot and just doesn't get it. There's no room for discussion here.
See Peter Brown.

But this isn't the sort of video thrown up by an oppressed group of patriots cobbling things together while under fire from agents of the deep state.

Look at the production quality. This took a minimum of 130 hours to produce.

For our right winger friends, I guess a 5 million dollar budget to toss up a potentially viral video is no big deal. The question is, who wrote the check? The oil guys? The insurance guys? Maybe the Big Pharma guys? This benefits the Russia interests but they wouldn't.......NO.....But maybe?

[runrussellrun]

Trump praised China and even sent them medical supplies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVmloKuqYI

I know, idiotic.

now what?

COVID-19 Response
Pandemic Resilience Roadmap
April 20, 2020:

Our COVID-19 Response Initiative, a bipartisan group of experts in economics, public health, technology and ethics from across the country, has released the nation’s first comprehensive operational roadmap for mobilizing and reopening the U.S. economy in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis.

https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center ... 0.20_0.pdf

gotta be honest.....more white collar welfare garbage.

This is NO road map. It's you and I sitting around the table, talking about where we want to take the kids on vacation, this summer. (in normal times) It's more tripe. Nothing specific. NO direction. rudderless junk.

What is wrong with the 69 page "Fired" pandemic report? oh, junk....right

Even't's 201 seven recommendations: Oh. yeSz, more road map stuff, right CU88

So, back to your link......IE; the word "essential" hit of 74 times in the pdf "find" function.

Junk like this: No footnotes, citations & reports on where these #'s came from? junk.
pg. 17
As we discuss when and how to reopen the economy, we miss a fundamental point—40% of the economy is already
open. According to the Department of Homeland Security, approximately 40% of the U.S. workforce is currently in
essential services. Unfortunately, however, this essential workforce has not been equipped with the resources needed
for pandemic resilience. As a result, doctors and nurses have fallen ill, and 17% of the New York Police force is sick
or quarantined.

pg 20.

This plan assumes that approximately 40% of the workforce is currently in essential roles, 15% are needed to fill
shortages in essential roles, 15% are in expanded definitions of essential roles, 10% are in none of these categories
but cannot productively work from home, and 20% can productively work from home

and yet.......this roadmap is JUNK, for many reasons, but, can someone tell me, in the road map "legend" or "key" perhaps, but where the FRIG can we find what business is deemed "e$$ential?". Hello, idiots.......

...are you telling us, the map is SOOOO good, you have to purchase another map (Homeland Security e$$ential designation list, oh, btw, does NOT exist, legally. Thought STATES controlled that ? ALso, good luck finding the homeland securities essential business list. )

Unless, I am missing it somewhere. That this roadmap describes, in detail, which business is essential, which is not. You know, Specifics. But, you know I didn't miss it. I actually read these links.

How much money did Harvard get for this useless piece of garbage?

We disagree, I fear that come this next winter flu season we are going to be in a world of hurt; unless we over prepare.

On what, do we disagree? I have no problem preparing. Even over.

What I do have a problem with is useless crap you linked. Zero roadmaps. Nothing specific. Not Even something simple, like, this:

IN ALL instances Hospitals will have a TWO month supply of PPE's, Mandatory, be kept in stock/storage. Normal logistic ordering practices followed.
PPE's are per each bed.

Every ER bed - 50 PPE's, per day. MUST maintain stock of 3,000 PPE's for emergency room, per bed. 10 beds 30K
Every ICU bed-......every....and on and on for however many classifications they use to determine what to call a "bed".

If a pandemic hits, and the hospital does NOT have the mandatory amount of PPE's in stock.........who is to blame?

is that too pragmatic ? or, should we just stick with smart people terms like "robust"

[3rdPersonPlural]

Trump praised China and even sent them medical supplies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVmloKuqYI

I know, idiotic.

now what?

COVID-19 Response
Pandemic Resilience Roadmap
April 20, 2020:

Our COVID-19 Response Initiative, a bipartisan group of experts in economics, public health, technology and ethics from across the country, has released the nation’s first comprehensive operational roadmap for mobilizing and reopening the U.S. economy in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis.

https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center ... 0.20_0.pdf

gotta be honest.....more white collar welfare garbage.

This is NO road map. It's you and I sitting around the table, talking about where we want to take the kids on vacation, this summer. (in normal times) It's more tripe. Nothing specific. NO direction. rudderless junk.

What is wrong with the 69 page "Fired" pandemic report? oh, junk....right

Even't's 201 seven recommendations: Oh. yeSz, more road map stuff, right CU88

So, back to your link......IE; the word "essential" hit of 74 times in the pdf "find" function.

Junk like this: No footnotes, citations & reports on where these #'s came from? junk.
pg. 17
As we discuss when and how to reopen the economy, we miss a fundamental point—40% of the economy is already
open. According to the Department of Homeland Security, approximately 40% of the U.S. workforce is currently in
essential services. Unfortunately, however, this essential workforce has not been equipped with the resources needed
for pandemic resilience. As a result, doctors and nurses have fallen ill, and 17% of the New York Police force is sick
or quarantined.

pg 20.

This plan assumes that approximately 40% of the workforce is currently in essential roles, 15% are needed to fill
shortages in essential roles, 15% are in expanded definitions of essential roles, 10% are in none of these categories
but cannot productively work from home, and 20% can productively work from home

and yet.......this roadmap is JUNK, for many reasons, but, can someone tell me, in the road map "legend" or "key" perhaps, but where the FRIG can we find what business is deemed "e$$ential?". Hello, idiots.......

...are you telling us, the map is SOOOO good, you have to purchase another map (Homeland Security e$$ential designation list, oh, btw, does NOT exist, legally. Thought STATES controlled that ? ALso, good luck finding the homeland securities essential business list. )

Unless, I am missing it somewhere. That this roadmap describes, in detail, which business is essential, which is not. You know, Specifics. But, you know I didn't miss it. I actually read these links.

How much money did Harvard get for this useless piece of garbage?

We disagree, I fear that come this next winter flu season we are going to be in a world of hurt; unless we over prepare.

On what, do we disagree? I have no problem preparing. Even over.

What I do have a problem with is useless dump you linked. Zero roadmaps. Nothing specific. Not Even something simple, like, this:

IN ALL instances Hospitals will have a TWO month supply of PPE's, Mandatory, be kept in stock/storage. Normal logistic ordering practices followed.
PPE's are per each bed.

Every ER bed - 50 PPE's, per day. MUST maintain stock of 3,000 PPE's for emergency room, per bed. 10 beds 30K
Every ICU bed-......every....and on and on for however many classifications they use to determine what to call a "bed".

If a pandemic hits, and the hospital does NOT have the mandatory amount of PPE's in stock.........who is to blame?

is that too pragmatic ? or, should we just stick with smart people terms like "robust"

[calourie]

IMHE numbers not looking good today. Likely to be a new high in US deaths, but at the same time it looks like some states are folding in senior care facility reporting when they hadn't in the past. For instance Cuomo reported 481 deaths in the morning which got recorded on the IMHE site, but now there are 764 being reported by the same site. The hodge-podge of information and mortality reporting makes tracking and projecting a very inconclusive science. Whatever the case there are a large number of people dying out there of this infection, and the numbers look like they will exceed the current projections by a substantial amount. One other disconcerting trend is that the deaths in Italy are not slowing down at anywhere near the projected rate. This may well indicate a reality which will impact us as well. South Korea and their hyper-intense testing regime seems to be the gold standard in dealing with this nightmare, but it looks like the US, if not already way too late, is too unruly in its' response to gain much benefit from their example. I would think a more focused effort to at least move in the South Korean direction would be advisable. In the meantime, judging from the response of Georgia and Governor Kemp it looks like some states will be dialing back to a more Swedish "let's just let it sweep through more of the population and see what happens approach". I doubt Kemp is consulting with Drs. Fauci and Birx about this approach, but in the not too distant future we should have enough data to evaluate its' efficacy. The results in Georgia and in other states which ease up on their distancing and activity guidelines should be revealing, and also very useful in mapping out our course into the future.

calourie -- how are things in your local CA community, with their unique demographics ? Are the hospitals holding up ? Did the things your Congressman was asking for arrive ? Is he still working the crisis as an ER doc ? Be well.

Thanks for asking, Salty. Things holding up remarkably well, thanks, Due I think to early shutdown, and 90+% public cooperation. Last I heard around 85 cases and 8 deaths in Palm Springs itself. Highly vulnerable population, but well educated and used to taking directives from authorities given the incidence of forest fires, droughts, earthquakes, you name it. Ruiz is on TV regularly giving updates and advising. Testing here runs higher than the state level, but still inadequate. Hospitals functioning well. Talk about golf courses in Cali opening up with pull carts, but not here in Palm Springs given the demographics. My wife looks after keeping me germ and human contact isolated. I have a couple of injections coming up in a month at my hospital's oncology center that will require me to suit up in all the protective paraphenalia required to up my chances for further existence which has me a little concerned, but I'm comforted by the fact that everyone out here is making such a concerted effort to insure a decent outcome. Trust all is well with you.

[old salt]

IMHE numbers not looking good today. Likely to be a new high in US deaths, but at the same time it looks like some states are folding in senior care facility reporting when they hadn't in the past. For instance Cuomo reported 481 deaths in the morning which got recorded on the IMHE site, but now there are 764 being reported by the same site. The hodge-podge of information and mortality reporting makes tracking and projecting a very inconclusive science. Whatever the case there are a large number of people dying out there of this infection, and the numbers look like they will exceed the current projections by a substantial amount. One other disconcerting trend is that the deaths in Italy are not slowing down at anywhere near the projected rate. This may well indicate a reality which will impact us as well. South Korea and their hyper-intense testing regime seems to be the gold standard in dealing with this nightmare, but it looks like the US, if not already way too late, is too unruly in its' response to gain much benefit from their example. I would think a more focused effort to at least move in the South Korean direction would be advisable. In the meantime, judging from the response of Georgia and Governor Kemp it looks like some states will be dialing back to a more Swedish "let's just let it sweep through more of the population and see what happens approach". I doubt Kemp is consulting with Drs. Fauci and Birx about this approach, but in the not too distant future we should have enough data to evaluate its' efficacy. The results in Georgia and in other states which ease up on their distancing and activity guidelines should be revealing, and also very useful in mapping out our course into the future.

calourie -- how are things in your local CA community, with their unique demographics ? Are the hospitals holding up ? Did the things your Congressman was asking for arrive ? Is he still working the crisis as an ER doc ? Be well.

Thanks for asking, Salty. Things holding up remarkably well, thanks, Due I think to early shutdown, and 90+% public cooperation. Last I heard around 85 cases and 8 deaths in Palm Springs itself. Highly vulnerable population, but well educated and used to taking directives from authorities given the incidence of forest fires, droughts, earthquakes, you name it. Ruiz is on TV regularly giving updates and advising. Testing here runs higher than the state level, but still inadequate. Hospitals functioning well. Talk about golf courses in Cali opening up with pull carts, but not here in Palm Springs given the demographics. My wife looks after keeping me germ and human contact isolated. I have a couple of injections coming up in a month at my hospital's oncology center that will require me to suit up in all the protective paraphenalia required to up my chances for further existence which has me a little concerned, but I'm comforted by the fact that everyone out here is making such a concerted effort to insure a decent outcome. Trust all is well with you.

Steaming as before. Thanks for asking. Hunkered down, waiting for the peak here in MD, which I thought would have happened by now, but should come soon. Confident that our Governor is doing all that he can. We're adapting well to our new normal. Grateful for what we have, without the need to go out for anything. I'm concerned about my wife's 2 days/wk at our vet clinic, but they're medical pros, conducting no (human) contact appointments & looking out for her as the only at risk staff member. It's been a rough few years for Cali -- it's good to see how well you're dealing with this latest crisis, relatively. I'm impressed with Gov Newsom & the way he's marshaled the state's considerable resources. Hope your treatments go well. Sounds like you're in good hands. Hang in there.

[a fan]

You two take care, will ya?

[DocBarrister]

More than 27 percent of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine died, and 22 percent of those treated with the combination therapy died, compared with an 11.4 percent death rate in those not treated with the drugs, the study said. The results were from an observational study of outcomes and were not part of a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial, which is the gold standard for testing drugs.

The study was published on the site medrxiv.org, which is a clearinghouse for academic studies on the coronavirus that have not yet been peer-reviewed or published in academic journals.

“An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone,” wrote the authors, who are affiliated with the University of Virginia, the University of South Carolina, and the VA system in Columbia, S.C. “These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... tudy-says/

Other studies are underway, but early results are not looking good.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Trump praised China and even sent them medical supplies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVmloKuqYI

I know, idiotic.

now what?

COVID-19 Response
Pandemic Resilience Roadmap
April 20, 2020:

Our COVID-19 Response Initiative, a bipartisan group of experts in economics, public health, technology and ethics from across the country, has released the nation’s first comprehensive operational roadmap for mobilizing and reopening the U.S. economy in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis.

https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center ... 0.20_0.pdf

gotta be honest.....more white collar welfare garbage.

This is NO road map. It's you and I sitting around the table, talking about where we want to take the kids on vacation, this summer. (in normal times) It's more tripe. Nothing specific. NO direction. rudderless junk.

What is wrong with the 69 page "Fired" pandemic report? oh, junk....right

Even't's 201 seven recommendations: Oh. yeSz, more road map stuff, right CU88

So, back to your link......IE; the word "essential" hit of 74 times in the pdf "find" function.

Junk like this: No footnotes, citations & reports on where these #'s came from? junk.
pg. 17
As we discuss when and how to reopen the economy, we miss a fundamental point—40% of the economy is already
open. According to the Department of Homeland Security, approximately 40% of the U.S. workforce is currently in
essential services. Unfortunately, however, this essential workforce has not been equipped with the resources needed
for pandemic resilience. As a result, doctors and nurses have fallen ill, and 17% of the New York Police force is sick
or quarantined.

pg 20.

This plan assumes that approximately 40% of the workforce is currently in essential roles, 15% are needed to fill
shortages in essential roles, 15% are in expanded definitions of essential roles, 10% are in none of these categories
but cannot productively work from home, and 20% can productively work from home

and yet.......this roadmap is JUNK, for many reasons, but, can someone tell me, in the road map "legend" or "key" perhaps, but where the FRIG can we find what business is deemed "e$$ential?". Hello, idiots.......

...are you telling us, the map is SOOOO good, you have to purchase another map (Homeland Security e$$ential designation list, oh, btw, does NOT exist, legally. Thought STATES controlled that ? ALso, good luck finding the homeland securities essential business list. )

Unless, I am missing it somewhere. That this roadmap describes, in detail, which business is essential, which is not. You know, Specifics. But, you know I didn't miss it. I actually read these links.

How much money did Harvard get for this useless piece of garbage?

We disagree, I fear that come this next winter flu season we are going to be in a world of hurt; unless we over prepare.

On what, do we disagree? I have no problem preparing. Even over.

What I do have a problem with is useless dump you linked. Zero roadmaps. Nothing specific. Not Even something simple, like, this:

IN ALL instances Hospitals will have a TWO month supply of PPE's, Mandatory, be kept in stock/storage. Normal logistic ordering practices followed.
PPE's are per each bed.

Every ER bed - 50 PPE's, per day. MUST maintain stock of 3,000 PPE's for emergency room, per bed. 10 beds 30K
Every ICU bed-......every....and on and on for however many classifications they use to determine what to call a "bed".

If a pandemic hits, and the hospital does NOT have the mandatory amount of PPE's in stock.........who is to blame?

is that too pragmatic ? or, should we just stick with smart people terms like "robust"

Bill Mitchell is a conman like Donald Trump, just smaller in scale.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d53 ... a9df05df82

They prey on the stupid, the racist, the bigoted, who are too moronic to understand they’re getting fleeced.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

It is sometimes difficult to understand the deficiencies in morals, ethics, character, and intellect that would permit a person to become a Trump cultist, but the entire hydroxychloroquine fiasco is puzzling even in that context.

Fox News has fallen out of love with hydroxychloroquine. After weeks of unrelenting coverage hyping the antimalarial drug as a potential game-changing treatment for the coronavirus, the network has all but stopped mentioning it on its airwaves. So has President Donald Trump.

The [quiet] abandonment of hydroxychloroquine comes as studies indicate it is not an effective treatment against the coronavirus. A French study found last week that the drug does not help patients with the virus. And on Tuesday, a study of hundreds of patents at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers found that patients who took hydroxychloroquine were no less likely to need ventilation and had higher death rates than those who didn't take the drug.

"Will anyone who breathlessly pitched hydroxychloroquine as a miracle drug show a modicum of regret or even self-awareness over this? Doubtful," The Daily Beast's Sam Stein predicted. "More likely is they'll ignore the study entirely." Stein appears to have been right on the money.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/media/fo ... index.html

As with any cult, dishonesty is key. We have seen such dishonesty from Trump cultists on our own little forum.

What is truly dangerous about the Trump cult is their shamelessness. The hydroxychloroquine fiasco is just a small example. Trump’s willful recklessness, incompetence, and malignant narcissism has already resulted in the needless deaths of tens of thousands of Americans. Yet, do we even sense any remorse or shame from those who have consistently supported Trump? I don’t.

Which begs this question ... what if Trump somehow steals the election this November and eventually gains the authoritarian power that he seems to admire so much in Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, or Kim Jong Un? What if he and his cultists actually start killing people intentionally, like they’re already beginning to do during this pandemic? If Trump starts making people like Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and various reporters disappear, will his cultists show any remorse or shame?

Trump has already corrupted the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. He has been doing his best to corrupt the Department of Defense. He long ago corrupted and subjugated the Republican Party.

Trump already believes he can get away with shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. He apparently thinks he can get away with killing tens of thousands of Americans during the pandemic. His gun-toting cultists are apparently willing to trade people’s lives for profit (“There are more important things than living.”).

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

We see their shamelessness in all the “smaller” things. The hydroxychloroquine fiasco is just one example. Even on our own forum, we have seen his cultists argue that it would be worth some American deaths to open up commerce. They continue to support Trump, sometimes while denying they are supporting him.

And all with a degree of shamelessness that is difficult to understand. What will that shamelessness empower them to do next?

DocBarrister

[6ftstick]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

[DocBarrister]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

Asks the man willing to trade the lives of hundreds of octogenarians.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

Let's just say that I found calourie's and Salty's exchange to be heartwarming, both your and Doc's posts not so much.

Doc, I think this particular post belonged on Orange Duce.
Frankly, I agree with your tough view of Trump's authoritarian tendencies, his lack of empathy, his his shameless dishonesty, and the cult-like behavior of many of his supporters. However, let me make a plea that this thread be devoted more to sharing information about COVID-19, measures being taken to battle the pandemic, challenges to those efforts, etc. The study about hydoxychloroquine is very relevant and the adverse impact of hyping this drug is relevant, including the point that stupidity and dishonesty and incompetence is costing lives. As well as Barr's quite outrageous threats. But the projections about future authoritarian behavior in a second term better fits on the other thread.

Just my opinion of course.

[Peter Brown]

Here is the sort of stuff the Trump campaign money is producing:

It's professionally produced, and I can assure you that the production budget for this piece alone is more than most of us gross in any 24 month period. This isn't grassroots agitation. Turn your speakers up.

Bill Gates the philanthropist is being roped in as a bad guy. Usually he is lumped in with the Clinton Foundation and Soros.

It is well written and produced. This isn't a grass roots endeavor. The editing is artful. The audio is tight as a drum.

Curious data like '98% of us could have already had this virus!!!' are tossed in without comment as if it is an established fact.
The objections are carefully couched as questions. The villains are from the standard portfolio of right wing bad guys. There are gobs of straw-man arguments. Abortion is thrown up as a crisis ignored by the scientists. All the tropes.....

Is this an attempt to keep us all from worshiping????? Science is atheist, ya know!!

Fauci is described as a leftist gay-supporting liberal. That the Gates Foundation works with him marks him as a baby killer! Fauci is just a puppet of the liberal gay lovin' contraception lovin' immigrant supportin' philanthropy of rich liberal fools!!

But this is why Trumpets are out protesting. Trump stands against anti life anti nationalist pro commonist pro evil forces, and scientists leaning on him to make a fake pandemic a reason to shut off his blossoming economy just shows how all elitists are aligned against the great patriot Trump!

If you want to know what the right wing money is promoting right now, watch this:

Heck of a video. It is fortunate that Trump is the President, he is the only one, the chosen one, who can save us from all this. Whatever he says, however he says it, whatever he does, however he does it, is necessary for the survival of our country. He is the ultimate patriot, has the greatest vision, and a committment to the well being of the country like no other American. Anyone who thinks differently is an idiot and just doesn't get it. There's no room for discussion here.
See Peter Brown.

If you guys are going to post videos, can they be more like 2 minutes max?

Meanwhile, don't miss the opening of the economy when it happens. I know I know, them rubes are risking my life by goin' into nail salons and country and western bars! Well, them rubes can't work from home and they have run out of money; suicides will soon eclipse Corona deaths so bear that in mind as you scream to shut down the economy until after 11-3. Thanks!

[wgdsr]

It is sometimes difficult to understand the deficiencies in morals, ethics, character, and intellect that would permit a person to become a Trump cultist, but the entire hydroxychloroquine fiasco is puzzling even in that context.

Fox News has fallen out of love with hydroxychloroquine. After weeks of unrelenting coverage hyping the antimalarial drug as a potential game-changing treatment for the coronavirus, the network has all but stopped mentioning it on its airwaves. So has President Donald Trump.

The [quiet] abandonment of hydroxychloroquine comes as studies indicate it is not an effective treatment against the coronavirus. A French study found last week that the drug does not help patients with the virus. And on Tuesday, a study of hundreds of patents at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers found that patients who took hydroxychloroquine were no less likely to need ventilation and had higher death rates than those who didn't take the drug.

"Will anyone who breathlessly pitched hydroxychloroquine as a miracle drug show a modicum of regret or even self-awareness over this? Doubtful," The Daily Beast's Sam Stein predicted. "More likely is they'll ignore the study entirely." Stein appears to have been right on the money.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/media/fo ... index.html

As with any cult, dishonesty is key. We have seen such dishonesty from Trump cultists on our own little forum.

What is truly dangerous about the Trump cult is their shamelessness. The hydroxychloroquine fiasco is just a small example. Trump’s willful recklessness, incompetence, and malignant narcissism has already resulted in the needless deaths of tens of thousands of Americans. Yet, do we even sense any remorse or shame from those who have consistently supported Trump? I don’t.

Which begs this question ... what if Trump somehow steals the election this November and eventually gains the authoritarian power that he seems to admire so much in Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, or Kim Jong Un? What if he and his cultists actually start killing people intentionally, like they’re already beginning to do during this pandemic? If Trump starts making people like Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and various reporters disappear, will his cultists show any remorse or shame?

Trump has already corrupted the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. He has been doing his best to corrupt the Department of Defense. He long ago corrupted and subjugated the Republican Party.

Trump already believes he can get away with shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. He apparently thinks he can get away with killing tens of thousands of Americans during the pandemic. His gun-toting cultists are apparently willing to trade people’s lives for profit (“There are more important things than living.”).

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

We see their shamelessness in all the “smaller” things. The hydroxychloroquine fiasco is just one example. Even on our own forum, we have seen his cultists argue that it would be worth some American deaths to open up commerce. They continue to support Trump, sometimes while denying they are supporting him.

And all with a degree of shamelessness that is difficult to understand. What will that shamelessness empower them to do next?

DocBarrister

is it even possible this post could be more hypocritical?

see mods,i didn't even call him a hypocrite.

[DocBarrister]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

Let's just say that I found calourie's and Salty's exchange to be heartwarming, both your and Doc's posts not so much.

Doc, I think this particular post belonged on Orange Duce.
Frankly, I agree with your tough view of Trump's authoritarian tendencies, his lack of empathy, his his shameless dishonesty, and the cult-like behavior of many of his supporters. However, let me make a plea that this thread be devoted more to sharing information about COVID-19, measures being taken to battle the pandemic, challenges to those efforts, etc. The study about hydoxychloroquine is very relevant and the adverse impact of hyping this drug is relevant, including the point that stupidity and dishonesty and incompetence is costing lives. As well as Barr's quite outrageous threats. But the projections about future authoritarian behavior in a second term better fits on the other thread.

Just my opinion of course.

There are no hard lines between subject matter any more. Trump’s deficiencies, usually appropriate subject matter under “Orange Deuce,” are almost certainly the single greatest factor in what we’re seeing in the coronavirus pandemic. Trump prioritized his own political fortunes over public health. He’s now doing it again by making a huge gamble and pressing for an early reopening of the economy. He is literally gambling with the lives of tens of thousands of Americans, just as he did in January-March.

I hear what you’re saying, but how can we possibly keep the subjects separate?

Trump’s apparent willingness to sacrifice some American lives for his political survival is perhaps the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in American politics. It is all tied together with his response to the pandemic. “Orange Deuce” and the coronavirus pandemic have become intricately, irreversibly intertwined.

DocBarrister

[6ftstick]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

Asks the man willing to trade the lives of hundreds of octogenarians.

DocBarrister

I'm no historian but wasn't the Bill of Rights written to guarantee our Freedoms during difficult times more than when everything goin well.

You just sit in your estate behind a gated wall and count your money—like Nancy Pelosi.

The rest of us will figure out how to save the lives and livelihoods of 330 million people.

[MDlaxfan76]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

Let's just say that I found calourie's and Salty's exchange to be heartwarming, both your and Doc's posts not so much.

Doc, I think this particular post belonged on Orange Duce.
Frankly, I agree with your tough view of Trump's authoritarian tendencies, his lack of empathy, his his shameless dishonesty, and the cult-like behavior of many of his supporters. However, let me make a plea that this thread be devoted more to sharing information about COVID-19, measures being taken to battle the pandemic, challenges to those efforts, etc. The study about hydoxychloroquine is very relevant and the adverse impact of hyping this drug is relevant, including the point that stupidity and dishonesty and incompetence is costing lives. As well as Barr's quite outrageous threats. But the projections about future authoritarian behavior in a second term better fits on the other thread.

Just my opinion of course.

There are no hard lines between subject matter any more. Trump’s deficiencies, usually appropriate subject matter under “Orange Deuce,” are almost certainly the single greatest factor in what we’re seeing in the coronavirus pandemic. Trump prioritized his own political fortunes over public health. He’s now doing it again by making a huge gamble and pressing for an early reopening of the economy. He is literally gambling with the lives of tens of thousands of Americans, just as he did in January-March.

I hear what you’re saying, but how can we possibly keep the subjects separate?

Trump’s apparent willingness to sacrifice some American lives for his political survival is perhaps the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in American politics. It is all tied together with his response to the pandemic. “Orange Deuce” and the coronavirus pandemic have become intricately, irreversibly intertwined.

DocBarrister

Yes, that point is one you've made dozens of times...and for which Trump and crew keep providing more ammunition, almost daily. I get it, and I'm not saying that the point shouldn't be made here when there's a new reason to do so.

But the musings about where his authoritarianism, etc could take us in a second term really isn't virus related. That part has a perfect home in Orange Duce.

[MDlaxfan76]

It is sometimes difficult to understand the deficiencies in morals, ethics, character, and intellect that would permit a person to become a Trump cultist, but the entire hydroxychloroquine fiasco is puzzling even in that context.

Fox News has fallen out of love with hydroxychloroquine. After weeks of unrelenting coverage hyping the antimalarial drug as a potential game-changing treatment for the coronavirus, the network has all but stopped mentioning it on its airwaves. So has President Donald Trump.

The [quiet] abandonment of hydroxychloroquine comes as studies indicate it is not an effective treatment against the coronavirus. A French study found last week that the drug does not help patients with the virus. And on Tuesday, a study of hundreds of patents at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers found that patients who took hydroxychloroquine were no less likely to need ventilation and had higher death rates than those who didn't take the drug.

"Will anyone who breathlessly pitched hydroxychloroquine as a miracle drug show a modicum of regret or even self-awareness over this? Doubtful," The Daily Beast's Sam Stein predicted. "More likely is they'll ignore the study entirely." Stein appears to have been right on the money.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/media/fo ... index.html

As with any cult, dishonesty is key. We have seen such dishonesty from Trump cultists on our own little forum.

What is truly dangerous about the Trump cult is their shamelessness. The hydroxychloroquine fiasco is just a small example. Trump’s willful recklessness, incompetence, and malignant narcissism has already resulted in the needless deaths of tens of thousands of Americans. Yet, do we even sense any remorse or shame from those who have consistently supported Trump? I don’t.

Which begs this question ... what if Trump somehow steals the election this November and eventually gains the authoritarian power that he seems to admire so much in Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, or Kim Jong Un? What if he and his cultists actually start killing people intentionally, like they’re already beginning to do during this pandemic? If Trump starts making people like Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and various reporters disappear, will his cultists show any remorse or shame?

Trump has already corrupted the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. He has been doing his best to corrupt the Department of Defense. He long ago corrupted and subjugated the Republican Party.

Trump already believes he can get away with shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. He apparently thinks he can get away with killing tens of thousands of Americans during the pandemic. His gun-toting cultists are apparently willing to trade people’s lives for profit (“There are more important things than living.”).

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

We see their shamelessness in all the “smaller” things. The hydroxychloroquine fiasco is just one example. Even on our own forum, we have seen his cultists argue that it would be worth some American deaths to open up commerce. They continue to support Trump, sometimes while denying they are supporting him.

And all with a degree of shamelessness that is difficult to understand. What will that shamelessness empower them to do next?

DocBarrister

is it even possible this post could be more hypocritical?

see mods,i didn't even call him a hypocrite.

I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but what is doc saying that is hypocritical?
I think part of it belongs on a different thread, but I'm not following your point....yet.

[DocBarrister]

So, if Trump somehow manages to stay in power, what will prevent Trump and his cultists from beginning to kill their perceived enemies?

Shame?

Remorse?

Compassion?

Empathy?

DocBarrister

Anyone else find this post as the new bottom here.

Let's just say that I found calourie's and Salty's exchange to be heartwarming, both your and Doc's posts not so much.

Doc, I think this particular post belonged on Orange Duce.
Frankly, I agree with your tough view of Trump's authoritarian tendencies, his lack of empathy, his his shameless dishonesty, and the cult-like behavior of many of his supporters. However, let me make a plea that this thread be devoted more to sharing information about COVID-19, measures being taken to battle the pandemic, challenges to those efforts, etc. The study about hydoxychloroquine is very relevant and the adverse impact of hyping this drug is relevant, including the point that stupidity and dishonesty and incompetence is costing lives. As well as Barr's quite outrageous threats. But the projections about future authoritarian behavior in a second term better fits on the other thread.

Just my opinion of course.

There are no hard lines between subject matter any more. Trump’s deficiencies, usually appropriate subject matter under “Orange Deuce,” are almost certainly the single greatest factor in what we’re seeing in the coronavirus pandemic. Trump prioritized his own political fortunes over public health. He’s now doing it again by making a huge gamble and pressing for an early reopening of the economy. He is literally gambling with the lives of tens of thousands of Americans, just as he did in January-March.

I hear what you’re saying, but how can we possibly keep the subjects separate?

Trump’s apparent willingness to sacrifice some American lives for his political survival is perhaps the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in American politics. It is all tied together with his response to the pandemic. “Orange Deuce” and the coronavirus pandemic have become intricately, irreversibly intertwined.

DocBarrister

Yes, that point is one you've made dozens of times...and for which Trump and crew keep providing more ammunition, almost daily. I get it, and I'm not saying that the point shouldn't be made here when there's a new reason to do so.

But the musings about where his authoritarianism, etc could take us in a second term really isn't virus related. That part has a perfect home in Orange Duce.

Actually, Trump’s potential authoritarianism and the coronavirus are entirely related.

Authoritarianism doesn’t arise during prosperity and calm. It arises during chaos and emergency. The Nazis first came to power during the Great Depression. They were elected to become the largest party in parliament in German federal elections in July 1932.

The coronavirus pandemic is not just a threat to Trump ... it is, perversely, an opportunity.

Does anyone here think Trump was kidding when he declared himself to have “total authority?”

DocBarrister

[Peter Brown]

Actually, Trump’s potential authoritarianism and the coronavirus are entirely related.

Authoritarianism doesn’t arise during prosperity and calm. It arises during chaos and emergency. The Nazis first came to power during the Great Depression. They were elected to become the largest party in parliament in German federal elections in July 1932.

The coronavirus pandemic is not just a threat to Trump ... it is, perversely, an opportunity.

Does anyone here think Trump was kidding when he declared himself to have “total authority?”

DocBarrister

Trump is such a fascist! Except for these Democratic governors of course!

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/ ... t-of-hand/