Sexual Assault ~ Weinstein, Epstein, etc.

[Peter Brown]

I’m going to cut the quote posts because they’re getting long.

DMAC: that is exactly what she was doing. These are her employees. I agree, her husband is despicable. But that’s irrelevant. You CANNOT have control over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

It’s also irrelevant whether her partners are good with it. Because at some level they have no choice should they prioritize their paycheck.

I’m not certain why this is so difficult to process.

[Peter Brown]

As to a fan, an internet barnacle if there ever was one!, I’ve been thinking of our respective Healthy industries quite a bit.

Skipping past how obviously little you know about Aviation, may I, on behalf of Aviation, point out that Aviation provides to all Americans an extraordinarily cost-effective, remarkably safe, universally accessible manner to travel to family and friends, new and old loved ones, new and old destinations, opening up cultures to cultures, languages to languages, forever enriching all of our lives. Movies like Tora Tora Tora, Airplane, and Love Actually.

Your industry provides unplanned pregnancies and liver failure. IMO, you’re not taxed enough.

[tech37]

As to a fan, an internet barnacle if there ever was one!, I’ve been thinking of our respective Healthy industries quite a bit.

Skipping past how obviously little you know about Aviation, may I, on behalf of Aviation, point out that Aviation provides to all Americans an extraordinarily cost-effective, remarkably safe, universally accessible manner to travel to family and friends, new and old loved ones, new and old destinations, opening up cultures to cultures, languages to languages, forever enriching all of our lives. Movies like Tora Tora Tora, Airplane, and Love Actually.

Your industry provides unplanned pregnancies and liver failure. IMO, you’re not taxed enough.

ouch!

[a fan]

Skipping past how obviously little you know about Aviation, may I, on behalf of Aviation, point out that Aviation provides to all Americans an extraordinarily cost-effective, remarkably safe, universally accessible manner to travel to family and friends, new and old loved ones, new and old destinations, opening up cultures to cultures, languages to languages, forever enriching all of our lives. Movies like Tora Tora Tora, Airplane, and Love Actually.

True. Across the board. Especially the part about me not knowing a thing about planes. It's one reason I have zero problem subsidizing what you do.

That doesn't mean it's not socialism.

Your industry provides unplanned pregnancies and liver failure. IMO, you’re not taxed enough.

You want to make an accounting of misery and death caused by aviation and compare it with beer and bourbon?

Seriously?

Dude. You're upset I pointed out your livelihood is based on socialism. You'll get over it. My entire business was started using a SBA loan----socialism.


Let's drop this line of thinking, as it doesn't end in a happy place.

Enjoy your success, and I congratulate you for it, and wish you more success. I'm dead serious.

[DMac]

I’m going to cut the quote posts because they’re getting long.

DMAC: that is exactly what she was doing. These are her employees. I agree, her husband is despicable. But that’s irrelevant. You CANNOT have agency over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

It’s also irrelevant whether her partners are good with it. Because at some level they have no choice should they prioritize their paycheck.

I’m not certain why this is so difficult to process.

This is not at all difficult to process.

You CANNOT have agency over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

I have no difficulty in processing this and I believe if this were the only issue KH had to deal with she might be able to overcome it with some apologies along with some public self-flagellation.
What one might call an intimate relationship, another might call a little fling with a boy toy. These boy toys aren't being held captive, they're willing participants who are supposed to be playing by those same "laws against" rules, right?
Soietal standards? What are those? Threesomes allowed in marriages? Bisexuality is okay? S&M, French maids, dominatrix?
...and yup, I get the #MeToo movement part too. I'm not so sure KH sexually assaulted or abused anyone though. Might have left some weakened and exhausted but I'm not so sure that's abuse.

[old salt]

I’m going to cut the quote posts because they’re getting long.

DMAC: that is exactly what she was doing. These are her employees. I agree, her husband is despicable. But that’s irrelevant. You CANNOT have control over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

It’s also irrelevant whether her partners are good with it. Because at some level they have no choice should they prioritize their paycheck.

I’m not certain why this is so difficult to process.

Don't fish at the company pier. Especially if you're a big fish. Not that hard to understand. #MeToo is based on the power differential.

[seacoaster]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/02/opin ... omers.html

"Hill was a blast of fresh air on the Hill. And it is amazing that, after two centuries of men treating the political landscape here as a droit du seigneur playground, that the one ensnared in an ethics investigation about the new rules enacted last year on sexual harassment — barring lawmakers from having sexual relationships with staffers — is a woman.

Hill pointed the finger at her “abusive” loser husband, Kenny Heslep, who has been unemployed for the past five years, implying that he leaked the pictures and texts to Hill’s foes. Not since Linda Tripp has there been such a creepy betrayal in politics.

It turned out that one of the people responsible for publishing Hill’s photos and texts is a Republican operative who worked for her opponents.

As The L.A. Times reported, Heslep wrote in divorce papers that Hill came home from Washington and said she was leaving. “She took our only operable vehicle and left me stranded at our residence,” he wrote, adding that his parents had to lend him money to hire a divorce lawyer.

In her fiery exit speech, Hill gave her side: “The forces of revenge by a bitter jealous man, cyber exploitation and sexual shaming that target our gender and a large segment of society that fears and hates powerful women have combined to push a young woman out of power and say that she doesn’t belong here.”

She continued, “Yet a man who brags about his sexual predation, who has had dozens of women come forward to accuse him of sexual assault, who pushes policies that are uniquely harmful to women and who has filled the courts with judges who proudly rule to deprive women of the most fundamental right to control their own bodies, sits in the highest office in the land.”

Hill’s parting vote on Thursday was to endorse the impeachment inquiry.

Shawn and I both felt sad watching her implode. But, while I agree with Hill that there are double standards and that we still dwell in a misogynistic culture, I also think she should have realized that we’re operating under new rules now and that they apply to both sexes.

I reiterated to Shawn my bewilderment that every millennial moment — even the most private — can be enjoyed only if it’s documented and uploaded God knows where.

While he agreed that it was reckless for Hill to be in those sort of pictures once she had entered the political arena, he said that I was missing the forest for the trees: Youngs who can’t even imagine that they will one day run for office may already have racy shots somewhere out there.

He pointed to a viral text going around this past month as evidence that most young people have at least one picture on their phones that they don’t want to get out. The first line of the text refers to Instagram and pops up on the recipient’s phone with the most horrifying words known to the millennial mind: “Why is there a nude on your story??” Once the text is opened, it turns out to be a prank. Nonetheless, Shawn said, it caused a lot of spilled coffees and near car crashes among his friends.

He said that iPhones and social media have so reshaped culture that older people would have to accept the new and sometimes naked reality. He had to agree with Representative Matt Gaetz, the 37-year-old Florida Republican and Trump lap dog, who told Fox News: “This is an issue where a lot of millennials, I think, sympathize with Katie Hill because a lot of young people who grew up with a smartphone in their hands took pictures, sent them, shared messages and materials that are now recoverable later in life.”

I get that young people are digital natives, even cyborgs. But I had to offer a riposte to Shawn that, while society can be reshaped, human nature is immutable. What I learned from studying Shakespeare is that the primary colors of emotions carry through the centuries.

There will always be vengeful exes and envious allies and ruthless opponents and double-crossing friends. Whether the messages are being carried by pigeons or pixels, you have to protect yourself — and your data. Don’t let our shiny new tools blind you to the fact that some horrible truths about humanity never change.

And don’t leave yourself vulnerable by giving people the ammunition — or the nudes — to strip you of your dreams.

OK, millennials?"

[tech37]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

[MDlaxfan76]

I’m going to cut the quote posts because they’re getting long.

DMAC: that is exactly what she was doing. These are her employees. I agree, her husband is despicable. But that’s irrelevant. You CANNOT have agency over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

It’s also irrelevant whether her partners are good with it. Because at some level they have no choice should they prioritize their paycheck.

I’m not certain why this is so difficult to process.

PB,
Could you please point out the specific law and its language that says that folks in Congress cannot have consensual sexual relationships with their employees? Or as applied to the general public, employer and employee?

If I'm not mistaken, in 2018 the law that Congress passed made the Representatives and Senators personally liable for any harassment or discrimination claims rather than the old law that had the US gov't (taxpayers) pay for the settlement of these claims, largely in secret. (old law being pretty disgusting)

Of course, I do agree that employer-employee relationships are fraught with potential power issues, giving rise to potential harassment claims. It does not, however, mean that any and all such relationships are breaking a law, nor even that such relationships can't be entirely consensual. But they do create risk, so should be avoided. Same for paying for sex, a pure power transaction.

But this really isn't my issue with your original series of posts, and then your whataboutism comparison to Kavanaugh.

Kavanaugh was accused of actual assault and rape. You claim those accusations weren't credible (totally disagree) or were too old, ie who cares what someone did when they were in HS or college...(matter of opinion). But assault and rape.

Hill hasn't been accused of anything beyond too much consensual sex...

The pictures you mentioned are all about slut shaming, pure and simple. Nothing else.

[MDlaxfan76]

I’m going to cut the quote posts because they’re getting long.

DMAC: that is exactly what she was doing. These are her employees. I agree, her husband is despicable. But that’s irrelevant. You CANNOT have control over your employees careers and paychecks, while also having have an intimate relationship with them. There is a law against that, in Congress, let alone basic societal standards! This is one of the key principles of MeToo.

It’s also irrelevant whether her partners are good with it. Because at some level they have no choice should they prioritize their paycheck.

I’m not certain why this is so difficult to process.

Don't fish at the company pier. Especially if you're a big fish. Not that hard to understand. #MeToo is based on the power differential.

Agreed. Should be avoided.
But a huge difference between "should be avoided" than harassment, assault, or rape.

[MDlaxfan76]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless.
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released.
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats.
Strange world we live in.

[tech37]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless. maybe, in time though she'd be a lefty heroine...something doesn't add up...maybe it's the iron cross stuff
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released. won't they be anyway?
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats. SOP, comes with territory
Strange world we live in. no doubt

[ardilla secreta]

As to a fan, an internet barnacle if there ever was one!, I’ve been thinking of our respective Healthy industries quite a bit.

Skipping past how obviously little you know about Aviation, may I, on behalf of Aviation, point out that Aviation provides to all Americans an extraordinarily cost-effective, remarkably safe, universally accessible manner to travel to family and friends, new and old loved ones, new and old destinations, opening up cultures to cultures, languages to languages, forever enriching all of our lives. Movies like Tora Tora Tora, Airplane, and Love Actually.

Your industry provides unplanned pregnancies and liver failure. IMO, you’re not taxed enough.

I rather take the train. But since most of the money goes to airports we’re left with a train system reminiscent of an impoverished nation. Outside of cross country travel and a few other long haul flights, it’s often less hassle to drive than to get to an airport, be processed for flight, wait to take off and land, try and find a way to a city center without losing circulation to your legs. Oh, if we only had modern trains.

My friend in Pasadena who has been house hunting in Tucson has found it preferable to take Amtrak, for all its issues, from LA Union Station, accessible from Pasadena by commuter rail, to the desert. A longer ride, but very comfortable and pleasant. No flights to Tucson from Burbank, so you have to go to LAX which is a brutal trip these days.

[MDlaxfan76]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless. maybe, in time though she'd be a lefty heroine...something doesn't add up...maybe it's the iron cross stuff
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released. won't they be anyway?
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats. SOP, comes with territory
Strange world we live in. no doubt

She may well end up being a 'lefty heroine' as it is.
No, the Iron Cross stuff would be the easiest aspect.
That's full-on right wing BS and most other folks recognize that's the case.
"wild child", sure. Nazi, nope.

And, no, with her leaving Congress, the attention is going to decrease precipitously.
This was being promoted heavily to place her district back into play for the GOP.
And the nut job haters will find new targets.
Sure, there will be some residual prurient interest, but the stakes become way different.

Death threats and open hate really aren't SOP for most politicians, certainly not at this scale.

I also think that the Dems are in this corner where they need to be zero tolerance in anything even bordering on Metoo, which the accusations about employee relationships does. And the R's understood this and went hard at it, wouldn't have stopped. The pictures, though, are what gave this the prurient interest.

Who knows, she may find another launch point in due course.

[tech37]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless. maybe, in time though she'd be a lefty heroine...something doesn't add up...maybe it's the iron cross stuff
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released. won't they be anyway?
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats. SOP, comes with territory
Strange world we live in. no doubt

She may well end up being a 'lefty heroine' as it is.
No, the Iron Cross stuff would be the easiest aspect.
That's full-on right wing BS and most other folks recognize that's the case.
"wild child", sure. Nazi, nope.

And, no, with her leaving Congress, the attention is going to decrease precipitously.
This was being promoted heavily to place her district back into play for the GOP.
And the nut job haters will find new targets.
Sure, there will be some residual prurient interest, but the stakes become way different.

Death threats and open hate really aren't SOP for most politicians, certainly not at this scale. Death threats may stem from her protesting against Brett Kavanaugh...real "people in glass houses" stuff...talk about a double standard. Before you get all weird about my post, I'm not condoning it, just suggesting why.

I also think that the Dems are in this corner where they need to be zero tolerance in anything even bordering on Metoo, which the accusations about employee relationships does. And the R's understood this and went hard at it, wouldn't have stopped. The pictures, though, are what gave this the prurient interest.

Who knows, she may find another launch point in due course.

[MDlaxfan76]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless. maybe, in time though she'd be a lefty heroine...something doesn't add up...maybe it's the iron cross stuff
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released. won't they be anyway?
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats. SOP, comes with territory
Strange world we live in. no doubt

She may well end up being a 'lefty heroine' as it is.
No, the Iron Cross stuff would be the easiest aspect.
That's full-on right wing BS and most other folks recognize that's the case.
"wild child", sure. Nazi, nope.

And, no, with her leaving Congress, the attention is going to decrease precipitously.
This was being promoted heavily to place her district back into play for the GOP.
And the nut job haters will find new targets.
Sure, there will be some residual prurient interest, but the stakes become way different.

Death threats and open hate really aren't SOP for most politicians, certainly not at this scale. Death threats may stem from her protesting against Brett Kavanaugh...real "people in glass houses" stuff...talk about a double standard. Before you get all weird about my post, I'm not condoning it, just suggesting why.

I also think that the Dems are in this corner where they need to be zero tolerance in anything even bordering on Metoo, which the accusations about employee relationships does. And the R's understood this and went hard at it, wouldn't have stopped. The pictures, though, are what gave this the prurient interest.

Who knows, she may find another launch point in due course.

Interesting. Could be.
Not that you are condoning it.
But 'glass houses'???
Is Hill accused of rape?

[tech37]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless. maybe, in time though she'd be a lefty heroine...something doesn't add up...maybe it's the iron cross stuff
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released. won't they be anyway?
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats. SOP, comes with territory
Strange world we live in. no doubt

She may well end up being a 'lefty heroine' as it is.
No, the Iron Cross stuff would be the easiest aspect.
That's full-on right wing BS and most other folks recognize that's the case.
"wild child", sure. Nazi, nope.

And, no, with her leaving Congress, the attention is going to decrease precipitously.
This was being promoted heavily to place her district back into play for the GOP.
And the nut job haters will find new targets.
Sure, there will be some residual prurient interest, but the stakes become way different.

Death threats and open hate really aren't SOP for most politicians, certainly not at this scale. Death threats may stem from her protesting against Brett Kavanaugh...real "people in glass houses" stuff...talk about a double standard. Before you get all weird about my post, I'm not condoning it, just suggesting why.

I also think that the Dems are in this corner where they need to be zero tolerance in anything even bordering on Metoo, which the accusations about employee relationships does. And the R's understood this and went hard at it, wouldn't have stopped. The pictures, though, are what gave this the prurient interest.

Who knows, she may find another launch point in due course.

Interesting. Could be.
Not that you are condoning it.
But 'glass houses'???
Is Hill accused of rape?

At this point you want to believe someone was raped? Go for it

You know I'm referring to party lifestyle and public service and the risks involved therein.

[MDlaxfan76]

If she feels there's such a double standard, why resign?

Seems it does really come down to broken rules/laws, no?

Because the slut shaming was going to be endless. maybe, in time though she'd be a lefty heroine...something doesn't add up...maybe it's the iron cross stuff
Apparently there are many more pictures that were going to be released. won't they be anyway?
And the social media reaction from the haters was super extreme, including death threats. SOP, comes with territory
Strange world we live in. no doubt

She may well end up being a 'lefty heroine' as it is.
No, the Iron Cross stuff would be the easiest aspect.
That's full-on right wing BS and most other folks recognize that's the case.
"wild child", sure. Nazi, nope.

And, no, with her leaving Congress, the attention is going to decrease precipitously.
This was being promoted heavily to place her district back into play for the GOP.
And the nut job haters will find new targets.
Sure, there will be some residual prurient interest, but the stakes become way different.

Death threats and open hate really aren't SOP for most politicians, certainly not at this scale. Death threats may stem from her protesting against Brett Kavanaugh...real "people in glass houses" stuff...talk about a double standard. Before you get all weird about my post, I'm not condoning it, just suggesting why.

I also think that the Dems are in this corner where they need to be zero tolerance in anything even bordering on Metoo, which the accusations about employee relationships does. And the R's understood this and went hard at it, wouldn't have stopped. The pictures, though, are what gave this the prurient interest.

Who knows, she may find another launch point in due course.

Interesting. Could be.
Not that you are condoning it.
But 'glass houses'???
Is Hill accused of rape?

At this point you want to believe someone was raped? Go for it

You know I'm referring to party lifestyle and public service and the risks involved therein.

tech,
I don't "want to believe", that was the accusation.
You said "glass houses" and "double standard" when comparing to what Hill is accused of doing.
It' ain't remotely close.

But sure, I did find the accusation credible. Way, way more than "party lifestyle".

But I also see Kavanaugh's subsequent life as not suggestive of an ongoing pattern of abuse of women.

Teenage brains literally don't fire up the way adult brains do, don't process choices, risks, the same way.
And the influence of alcohol makes this much worse.
So, the "what were you thinking" question we ask teenagers when they do something stupid or even awful is best answered as "they weren't actually thinking".

That's what the brain science tells us. The adolescent brain doesn't typically develop full adult processing until into the early 20's...some a little sooner, some a little later, but that's what the brain science tells us.

So, with Kavanaugh we have his subsequent life choices and behaviors to weigh as well as what I think most likely happened earlier.

I'd not have voted him on the Court because of how he handled the questioning, but it would have been a close call otherwise.

[Peter Brown]

I am not impugning MDlax's motives, but I am nevertheless dismayed to see people 'believe' such transparent bs as what was done to Kavanaugh.

Do you believe Judy Munro-Leighton? If so, you may want to read up on her post-confirmation:

https://www.businessinsider.com/brett-k ... on-2018-11

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 863210002/

Did you believe Julie Swetnik? If so, you may want to know her a bit better:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3rd-brett- ... -disputes/

And did you believe Christine Blasey Ford? Her dad, entire blood relative family, and best friend don't:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... lasey-ford

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/12/ch ... firmation/


But MDLax says Brett is scum (same scum who is dad to 2 girls, hoops coach to same, husband to only one, apparently unblemished personal life for 30+ years). Great to know that you can be roasted by partisan innuendo with clear political reason and have people of notable education believe the bs!

Oh yeah, to repeat in case you didn't hear me the first time: I think Kavanaugfh sucks as a judge. He has shown a willful indifference to many civil rights issues and always sides with the government; he is as far from what I prefer on the court as you can get. I will stand up, however, for anyone (regardless who they are) unfairly maligned or falsely accused.

I'll address the whataboutism regarding Katie Hill next and why her situation actually merits concern, but not for the reasons MDLax and DMac say.

[MDlaxfan76]

Is that what I said, PB, that Kavanaugh is "scum"????

You gotta try reading PB.

My post is directly above, saying quite the opposite.