Trump's Russian Collusion

[LandM]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the crap out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

[seacoaster]

I have been wondering if someone would take this route, through the courts seeking a declaration of his rights and obligations faced with a congressional subpoena and a White House diktat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... t-inquiry/

"A former top national security aide to President Trump filed a lawsuit Friday asking a federal judge to resolve conflicting orders from Congress and the White House over whether he must testify in the impeachment inquiry, setting up a potentially momentous legal battle that could determine the course of the investigation.

Charles Kupperman, who served as a deputy to former national security adviser John Bolton, is seeking a judicial ruling on whether he should comply with a subpoena from House Democrats or follow instructions from the White House not to appear.

“Plaintiff obviously cannot satisfy the competing demands of both the Legislative and Executive Branches, and he is aware of no controlling judicial authority definitively establishing which Branch’s command should prevail,” the lawsuit read.

The case could become the major test of what has emerged as a premier constitutional dispute of the Trump era: whether the White House can prevent Trump’s top advisers from testifying before Congress, in this case about the president’s efforts to pressure Ukraine into investigating his political rivals.

“If this case is ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, it will be one of the most consequential separation of powers cases in American constitutional history — however it is decided,” former federal Judge J. Michael Luttig told The Washington Post.

The outcome could also guide whether Bolton, who has not been subpoenaed, will face House investigators as part of the impeachment inquiry. Bolton and Kupperman, both represented by attorney Charles Cooper, are important witnesses for Democrats on Capitol Hill. Unlike some of the witnesses who have appeared in the inquiry so far, both have long records as Republican advisers — and both had access to private deliberations at the White House involving the president’s communications about Ukraine. Democrats on the House Intelligence and Judiciary Committees have expressed keen interest in having both men testify."

[seacoaster]

The Times story on the same request for a declaration:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/us/p ... e=Homepage

The Times depicts the lawsuit as an opportunity for the Executive Branch to spell out its theory in something other than blather. The witness's lawyer is a very well-known conservative attorney. It'll be interesting to see the guns marshaled on each side by the Branches. A little national lesson in the separation of powers is going on, if anyone cares to pay attention.

[Trinity]

“These aren't hearings. These are investigative interviews, with both Dems & GOP participating. Investigations are not done in public.
Once investigation is complete, we'll hold open hearings. And @realDonaldTrump enablers will blanche at what comes out during the open hearings.”

Rep Ted Lieu. (D) and an Air Force veteran

[MDlaxfan76]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Why? Well you keep saying silly things like "he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining..." as if you don't understand that it is Trump's position that he cannot even be investigated for a crime while POTUS, much less the more limited DOJ OLC opinion (just dismissed in court) that a POTUS can't be indicted.

Yes, a whole bunch of crimes, for which you and I would do jail time, have been committed by Trump, both during the campaign and as POTUS. Do you really not comprehend this?

Or does it just upset your belief set?

You're right, it's a big country.
Beautiful country.

[foreverlax]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

This has been asked and answered, over and over and over again.....for some, it just doesn't matter.

I do find it odd that your support for Trump is based on your anger over Ds.

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

[youthathletics]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

[foreverlax]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

[MDlaxfan76]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

Do you really imagine that your "hypothetical" could be true??

Your hypothetical is that the "last admin" (Obama and his subordinates) "set up the Trump team" (Do you mean that Veselnitskya was actually a CIA agent, not a Russian agent or the Russian fellow sending her to ostensibly offer dirt on HRC was actually a CIA agent or that Don Jr didn't actually welcome that dirt? or are you saying that the IC has collectively, including all the Trump appointees, been lying that the Russians hacked, the Russian's created false identities, the Russians employed bots to support Trump, hurt HRC...perhaps they 'set up' Trump to get him to respond as he did to Butina, maybe she too was a CIA agent??? maybe Manafort was really a CIA agent, and "set up" Trump by offering to work for no money???), and then "lied to the country"...again all those Trump IC appointees have been lying too???

But sure, I wouldn't be shocked if bad stuff has been covered up by prior administrations, whether D or R.
I'm for nailing any and all such.

But this Trumpist "hypothetical" is nonsense on its face.

[tech37]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

Respectfully forever...what I and others had said "over and over and over again" is if Trump is indicted and found guilty of anything, then throw him in the slammer, otherwise, he's POTUS, live with it.

[youthathletics]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

Respectfully forever...what I and others had said "over and over and over again" is if Trump is indicted and found guilty of anything, then throw him in the slammer, otherwise, he's POTUS, live with it.

Agreed.

[LandM]

MD and Forever,
Name one thing the guy has been found guilty of, sentenced by his peers, and is appealing. You cannot as there is NOT one. Hillary IMHO should be in a jail cell for gross negligence of her email server - is she doing time? Nope. Am I made about it, yes, but I have gotten over it, yes. Take some some low level schmuck - guarantee you they would be - rules are applied differently and that is why we have what we have. So, again, I am not the brightest tool in the shed, what laws has he broken. Before last night I thought a few of you were the Astro's offense - swing and a miss.

My spouse a hard core D spent 34 years as a bureaucrat. We are as opposite as they come. I used to ask why do you do that - well that is the way it has been done for the past 100 years - break china man. She in the last election refused to vote for Cuomo - why - he promised the roads would always be open. I was taught growing up in NV, never pi$$ in the wind - some of you all might want to learn that lesson - you have nothing and Nancy knows that - and wait, wait, wait, one more wait there is an ELECTION

Go Nats, Go khaki pants maybe he can beat a ranked team, go Whiskey as I hate buckeyes, and go no names with black cleats

[jhu72]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

Respectfully forever...what I and others had said "over and over and over again" is if Trump is indicted and found guilty of anything, then throw him in the slammer, otherwise, he's POTUS, live with it.

… of course lets overlook the fact that is impossible because you can't indict a sitting president; you can't try a sitting president; and if "your side" has its way you can't investigate a sitting president. How convenient.

[youthathletics]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

Do you really imagine that your "hypothetical" could be true??

Your hypothetical is that the "last admin" (Obama and his subordinates) "set up the Trump team" (Do you mean that Veselnitskya was actually a CIA agent, not a Russian agent or the Russian fellow sending her to ostensibly offer dirt on HRC was actually a CIA agent or that Don Jr didn't actually welcome that dirt? or are you saying that the IC has collectively, including all the Trump appointees, been lying that the Russians hacked, the Russian's created false identities, the Russians employed bots to support Trump, hurt HRC...perhaps they 'set up' Trump to get him to respond as he did to Butina, maybe she too was a CIA agent??? maybe Manafort was really a CIA agent, and "set up" Trump by offering to work for no money???), and then "lied to the country"...again all those Trump IC appointees have been lying too???

But sure, I wouldn't be shocked if bad stuff has been covered up by prior administrations, whether D or R.
I'm for nailing any and all such.

But this Trumpist "hypothetical" is nonsense on its face.

You didn't answer the question.

[foreverlax]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

Respectfully forever...what I and others had said "over and over and over again" is if Trump is indicted and found guilty of anything, then throw him in the slammer, otherwise, he's POTUS, live with it.

Agreed.

Do you think a sitting president can be indicted?

[tech37]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

[tech37]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

What if....if you break the law, you should be punished. I have been consistent on this since the Clintons. Nothing has changed from my end.

Trump should get some, very specific, vindication, but it doesn't excuse the rest of his actions.

Respectfully forever...what I and others had said "over and over and over again" is if Trump is indicted and found guilty of anything, then throw him in the slammer, otherwise, he's POTUS, live with it.

Agreed.

Do you think a sitting president can be indicted?

Sure, I think if the POTUS was proven to have murdered the First Lady, they'd find a way.

[seacoaster]

You are spot on about one thing - Trump has made breaking rules and laws the new normal.

No, the light was just not shone on the rule breaking of years past.

Hypothetically, what if Barr and Durham uncover, then prove, that the last admin set up the Trump team and lied to the entire country.

Would you say....so what and good they got caught but Trump is still worse OR would that vindicate Trump and you'd give pause to what we all just went through?

At this point in the process (such as it is), the attempt at any, even remote, equivalency between Trump's conduct as the President and direction of the Executive Branch and any President and Executive Branch in the past (and yes, I mean at least Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama) is simply ludicrous. No President or Presidency is perfect, and I think we can all assume every presidency reaches a Rubicon where strict adherence to the law (say, for carrying out counter-terrorism actions) is compromised. But to my knowledge, anyway, and I think to your "knowledge" (e.g., facts), none of the recent past presidencies has conducted business this way. You and LandM and others normalize Trump's behavior by doing this.

Hypothetically, what if Durham and Barr say X or Y? It'll depend on what the X and Y is. But right now, I sense a whole lot more wishful thinking about President Obama shading the law -- and that is exactly the worldview a guy like Trump needs.

[Peter Brown]

Rumor on the street is there is an election. Get over it boys. Vote some of you guys are worse then a coffee klatch group

We as a country will absolutely deserve Trump again in 2020. The people are smarter than given credit. They see and hear this incessant coffee klatch hysteria, are sick of it, and will extinguish it with one more election. In essence, they will ride out the hysteria while the hysterics slowly go quiet.

Meanwhile, have you seen anyone here at fanlax discuss/promote Elizabeth Warren? She's beginning to run away with the Dem nomination. Your 2020 choice looks to be Warren or Trump. Here are A Sullivan's take on Warren and I could not agree more:

The Trump game plan against her writes itself: She’s a supercilious, smug, know-it-all Massachusetts liberal who reveals contempt for the deplorables the way Clinton did last time. The “first woman of color” to get hired as a professor at Harvard Law School is the stuff that GOP dreams are made on. That any suspicion of the viability of her candidacy will be ascribed entirely to misogyny will only help Trump, the way it did in 2016

For what it’s worth, I suspect Warren will win the nomination and dutifully lose the election just like Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, and the second Clinton. She has that quintessential perfume of smug, well-meaning, mediocre doom that Democrats simply cannot resist.

The coffee klatch hysteria has led you to the abyss. While foaming over Trump, Warren is your new Queen. Congrats.

[seacoaster]

afan,
In writing - tell me what he did wrong - you can tell me he is an arse, you can tell me he is uncoventional, you can tell me he stole money, you can tell me he is a thief and a turd$head of a business man who screws everyone (ever done business with car people?)- I used to to deal with business people (man and women) who did the the same - he was duly elected - there has been nothing but one investigation after another, he has not been found of a crime after 3 year years and you ALL keep whining - you are the boys/women who keep calling that the sky is falling. I am at the point that I may vote for the damn dude.........that is allot of buttons to get me there. Get over your yourself and move on. If a D wins, what happens to that person? You and others are making a grave mistake......MOVE ON please for the benefit of most people. Big country go and visit it. AND PLEASE DO NOT CALL ME A TRUMPIST OR APOLOGISTS AS YOUR ARE FAR FROM FROM THE TRUTH.

On a lighter note, I hope Khaki pants kicks the the dump out of ND - I have 4 scars on two knees from the good Catholic boys - I will make amends and light a candle tomorrow

LandM,
Unfortunately, you really can't avoid the labels, even if you deny them shouting in all caps.

Ah your constant labeling mdlax

It's OK, I understand you make sense of your world by compartmentalizing, labeling... gives you a sense of security in your elitist bubble I guess. It's tough being an old white guy these days isn't it

Wow, someone really missing the point.