LaxPower Back-Up Stick

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

I agree, though I want to see how this gets executed...do producers need to hit certain metrics now in order to qualify for the purchases later?

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

So he told producers “I’ve set a floor for you” BFD they can buy puts, sell calls. He’s so stupid he doesn’t realize this is BAU for them. Now tell me US government can build a refinery in 6 months, Baltimore is perfect location with its harbor, you may have something. It’s not a production issue it’s refining problem.

... we will see. True that refining has been part of the problem. Not convinced it is the whole problem.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:40 pm ... we will see. True that refining has been part of the problem. Not convinced it is the whole problem.

And if you want to get technical refineries can only take specific grades of crude, they’d all love WTI it’s sweet and produces better distillates (higher quality and more juice from the squeeze) . Need to move that from Cushing to other locations, repealing the Jones act would open transportation.

With less than three weeks until the midterm elections, Georgians are already casting their ballots at a fast pace -- with vote counts on Tuesday surpassing 2020 presidential election records for the second day of early voting, surging to nearly twice the early vote totals of 2018 at the same point.

The outcome of Georgia's Senate race could be critical in deciding the balance of power in Washington.

As Georgia entered its third day of early in-person voting on Wednesday, over 291,700 people have voted -- 268,050 in person and 23,690 absentee. In 2020, the early vote numbers after the second day were 266,403, and in 2018 they were 147,289, according to the secretary of state's office.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/geo ... d=91750811

This is remarkable. Through two days, Georgia early voting is outpacing even the 2020 presidential election.

We will have to see whether this pace is maintained. In the meantime, this is looking good for Democrats, who favor early voting much more than Republicans.

DocBarrister

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

You can't be serious.

You and I understand this....yes. Does the American public?

Same goes for Carter. Was it his fault that the Fed set interest rates at nosebleed heights? Nope. Yet....he was blamed for it.

He was also blamed for a lack of borrowing....just as Old Salt what he thought about the military not having everything they wanted. He blames it all on Carter, rather than on commanders who are unable to figure out how to get by with less because the nature of the military means everyone protects their own "rice bowl", instead of looking out for the fitness of our entire military.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

If we had allowed more refining capacity over the years because a lot of it is in the bottleneck there not the exploration and production side when you use the term big oil.

It’s bas policy and reactionary, which makes it worse. The players int be system will use it to their advantage and the subsidy of any will go to them at the expense of taxpayers.

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:21 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

You can't be serious.

You and I understand this....yes. Does the American public?

Same goes for Carter. Was it his fault that the Fed set interest rates at nosebleed heights? Nope. Yet....he was blamed for it.

He was also blamed for a lack of borrowing....just as Old Salt what he thought about the military not having everything they wanted. He blames it all on Carter, rather than on commanders who are unable to figure out how to get by with less because the nature of the military means everyone protects their own "rice bowl", instead of looking out for the fitness of our entire military.

Most of Volckers rate efforts were under Reagan in the 80s. He took over in 1979…

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:21 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

You can't be serious.

You and I understand this....yes. Does the American public?

Same goes for Carter. Was it his fault that the Fed set interest rates at nosebleed heights? Nope. Yet....he was blamed for it.

He was also blamed for a lack of borrowing....just as Old Salt what he thought about the military not having everything they wanted. He blames it all on Carter, rather than on commanders who are unable to figure out how to get by with less because the nature of the military means everyone protects their own "rice bowl", instead of looking out for the fitness of our entire military.

Most of Volckers rate efforts were under Reagan in the 80s. He took over in 1979…

Yes. But in 1978 the rate went from 7.8 percent in April, to 10% by the end of the year.

Carter was HAMMERED by rates. It was 4.7% when Carter arrived. 14% rate by the time the election arrived in 1980.

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:46 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:21 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

You can't be serious.

You and I understand this....yes. Does the American public?

Same goes for Carter. Was it his fault that the Fed set interest rates at nosebleed heights? Nope. Yet....he was blamed for it.

He was also blamed for a lack of borrowing....just as Old Salt what he thought about the military not having everything they wanted. He blames it all on Carter, rather than on commanders who are unable to figure out how to get by with less because the nature of the military means everyone protects their own "rice bowl", instead of looking out for the fitness of our entire military.

Most of Volckers rate efforts were under Reagan in the 80s. He took over in 1979…

Yes. But in 1978 the rate went from 7.8 percent in April, to 10% by the end of the year.

Carter was HAMMERED by rates. It was 4.7% when Carter arrived. 14% rate by the time the election arrived in 1980.

Well the President does select the federal reserve chair…but I think we had inflation issues before he arrived as well.

Point was it was more severe under Regan.

Either way the nominal rate doesn’t matter it’s the “real rate” which is nominal minus inflation.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:46 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:21 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

You can't be serious.

You and I understand this....yes. Does the American public?

Same goes for Carter. Was it his fault that the Fed set interest rates at nosebleed heights? Nope. Yet....he was blamed for it.

He was also blamed for a lack of borrowing....just as Old Salt what he thought about the military not having everything they wanted. He blames it all on Carter, rather than on commanders who are unable to figure out how to get by with less because the nature of the military means everyone protects their own "rice bowl", instead of looking out for the fitness of our entire military.

Most of Volckers rate efforts were under Reagan in the 80s. He took over in 1979…

Yes. But in 1978 the rate went from 7.8 percent in April, to 10% by the end of the year.

Carter was HAMMERED by rates. It was 4.7% when Carter arrived. 14% rate by the time the election arrived in 1980.

Well the President does select the federal reserve chair…but I think we had inflation issues before he arrived as well.

Point was it was more severe under Regan.

Fair point for his first few years. Which is why I said to HooDat that folks didn't like Reagan those first years......and felt good about him after rates went down, and Federal borrowing exploded.

Which is dumb, naturally. Same reason TrumpFans liked Trump......let Biden increase Federal Spending by 66% like Trump, and watch our economy boom during the ensuing financial party.

....until the bill comes due, naturally.

Which is why we get to see Congressional R's find "fake financial Jeezus" for the 1,203 time this fall, as they complain about spending because they don't want Biden to continue the party, gaining votes.

Two years, and Biden won't pass a single bill. Good luck, TrumpNation!!

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:08 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:12 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:46 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:21 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:23 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:28 am I am not with you on this take.Yes, there was Bedtime for Bonzo references, etc... from the beginning, but the media never really came around to liking Reagan - think Iran Contra. And Reagan doesn't deserve any credit for this, but the Iranians release the hostages the day of inauguration was a big day one pop for Reagan's "success story". Of course cutting taxes and raising spending helped him become even more popular - not arguing there.

I'm saying: get rid of cutting taxes, and increasing spending massively----not just a little, a LOT.....is what gave that 1980's "good feeling" you're mentioning

Take those tools away, and keep the Federal spending where it was under Carter?

You get (drumroll): more Carter. More malaise.

Joe Biden is plenty optimistic if you listen to him.....but in the face of inflation? He sounds nuts/out of touch, yes?

... I don't know about that, his announcement of willingness to guarantee producers $70/barrel (as opposed to waiting until the price is much lower and paying that price) when he refills the Strategic Reserve in exchange for them turning on the spigot now, sounded pretty sane to me. Win - win. People are starting to recognize we are being gouged by big oil, to the tune of $1 per gallon at the pump.

You can't be serious.

You and I understand this....yes. Does the American public?

Same goes for Carter. Was it his fault that the Fed set interest rates at nosebleed heights? Nope. Yet....he was blamed for it.

He was also blamed for a lack of borrowing....just as Old Salt what he thought about the military not having everything they wanted. He blames it all on Carter, rather than on commanders who are unable to figure out how to get by with less because the nature of the military means everyone protects their own "rice bowl", instead of looking out for the fitness of our entire military.

Most of Volckers rate efforts were under Reagan in the 80s. He took over in 1979…

Yes. But in 1978 the rate went from 7.8 percent in April, to 10% by the end of the year.

Carter was HAMMERED by rates. It was 4.7% when Carter arrived. 14% rate by the time the election arrived in 1980.

Well the President does select the federal reserve chair…but I think we had inflation issues before he arrived as well.

Point was it was more severe under Regan.

Fair point for his first few years. Which is why I said to HooDat that folks didn't like Reagan those first years......and felt good about him after rates went down, and Federal borrowing exploded.

Which is dumb, naturally. Same reason TrumpFans liked Trump......let Biden increase Federal Spending by 66% like Trump, and watch our economy boom during the ensuing financial party.

....until the bill comes due, naturally.

Which is why we get to see Congressional R's find "fake financial Jeezus" for the 1,203 time this fall, as they complain about spending because they don't want Biden to continue the party, gaining votes.

Two years, and Biden won't pass a single bill. Good luck, TrumpNation!!

This is true but also my problem with Biden is he’s just doing things to win elections. May be less repugnant than modern R leadership but it doesn’t merit my support either. And having a generic “we have to help student debtors” turn into an “oh sh*t, I need to make good and feed these hunger profligate kids who don’t like contracts or honoring their obligations so I’ll just cancel their debt and worry about things like legality or taxpayers later”. That’s mostly all I see out of the den side too. Reactionary, not trying to long term plan and execute a strategy just some high level goodies for someone else to worry and out transmission to the public and future consequences.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:18 am This is true but also my problem with Biden is he’s just doing things to win elections. May be less repugnant than modern R leadership but it doesn’t merit my support either. And having a generic “we have to help student debtors” turn into an “oh sh*t, I need to make good and feed these hunger profligate kids who don’t like contracts or honoring their obligations so I’ll just cancel their debt and worry about things like legality or taxpayers later”. That’s mostly all I see out of the den side too. Reactionary, not trying to long term plan and execute a strategy just some high level goodies for someone else to worry and out transmission to the public and future consequences.

Agree completely on the debt game. I would MUCH prefer that Biden make training/education free at State Schools than cancel old debt.

That said, Biden got us infrastructure. That's not a game, that's badly needed, and more than overdue. And if the R's weren't playing games, that bill would have been much larger, and have actual, real benefits to Americans.

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:18 am This is true but also my problem with Biden is he’s just doing things to win elections. May be less repugnant than modern R leadership but it doesn’t merit my support either. And having a generic “we have to help student debtors” turn into an “oh sh*t, I need to make good and feed these hunger profligate kids who don’t like contracts or honoring their obligations so I’ll just cancel their debt and worry about things like legality or taxpayers later”. That’s mostly all I see out of the den side too. Reactionary, not trying to long term plan and execute a strategy just some high level goodies for someone else to worry and out transmission to the public and future consequences.

Agree completely on the debt game. I would MUCH prefer that Biden make training/education free at State Schools than cancel old debt.

That said, Biden got us infrastructure. That's not a game, that's badly needed, and more than overdue. And if the R's weren't playing games, that bill would have been much larger, and have actual, real benefits to Americans.

+1, the student debt idea was the wrong way to address a very real issue.

But otherwise, Infrastructure, Chips, a lot of "Inflation Reduction" Act, are quite smart policies...not perfect, but smart. Longer term benefits, not overnight.

But we're still living with the huge deficit producing tax rate cuts on wealthy and corporations...just couldn't get those changes through the Senate this past go round, and now unlikely for at least another 2 years.

Britain is reeling from a plan that Truss et al promised was "pro-growth" but produced enormous private market backlash...looks a lot like the GOP agenda...during a time of inflation and high employment!

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:24 pm But we're still living with the huge deficit producing tax rate cuts on wealthy and corporations...just couldn't get those changes through the Senate this past go round, and now unlikely for at least another 2 years.

Biden, McConnell, and Pelosi want them in place, let's not gloss over that.

It's disgusting, and is sticking it to working class Americans...as well as small businesses who don't get these perqs.

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:18 am This is true but also my problem with Biden is he’s just doing things to win elections. May be less repugnant than modern R leadership but it doesn’t merit my support either. And having a generic “we have to help student debtors” turn into an “oh sh*t, I need to make good and feed these hunger profligate kids who don’t like contracts or honoring their obligations so I’ll just cancel their debt and worry about things like legality or taxpayers later”. That’s mostly all I see out of the den side too. Reactionary, not trying to long term plan and execute a strategy just some high level goodies for someone else to worry and out transmission to the public and future consequences.

Agree completely on the debt game. I would MUCH prefer that Biden make training/education free at State Schools than cancel old debt.

That said, Biden got us infrastructure. That's not a game, that's badly needed, and more than overdue. And if the R's weren't playing games, that bill would have been much larger, and have actual, real benefits to Americans.

Why do we need to go right to open surgery? Start with an antibiotic. Add physical therapy, maybe laproscopy. Expand free and lower cost Community College. Work to ensure junior college degrees and classes translate to credit at state universities.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:25 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:18 am This is true but also my problem with Biden is he’s just doing things to win elections. May be less repugnant than modern R leadership but it doesn’t merit my support either. And having a generic “we have to help student debtors” turn into an “oh sh*t, I need to make good and feed these hunger profligate kids who don’t like contracts or honoring their obligations so I’ll just cancel their debt and worry about things like legality or taxpayers later”. That’s mostly all I see out of the den side too. Reactionary, not trying to long term plan and execute a strategy just some high level goodies for someone else to worry and out transmission to the public and future consequences.

Agree completely on the debt game. I would MUCH prefer that Biden make training/education free at State Schools than cancel old debt.

That said, Biden got us infrastructure. That's not a game, that's badly needed, and more than overdue. And if the R's weren't playing games, that bill would have been much larger, and have actual, real benefits to Americans.

Why do we need to go right to open surgery? Start with an antibiotic. Add physical therapy, maybe laproscopy. Expand free and lower cost Community College. Work to ensure junior college degrees and classes translate to credit at state universities.

We don't! Did you not see the bolded phrase?

I'd be 100% ok to start with free training for trades-----electrician, plumbing, construction, et. al. We're short on those trades in the millions. Heck, lump "coding/programming" in with those. THEN do college. Works for me. We've done NOTHING about the skills and labor gap for decades. I have NO problem pushing kids into training, and give college bound kids the middle finger for a change. Sign me up.

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:32 pm

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:25 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:11 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:18 am This is true but also my problem with Biden is he’s just doing things to win elections. May be less repugnant than modern R leadership but it doesn’t merit my support either. And having a generic “we have to help student debtors” turn into an “oh sh*t, I need to make good and feed these hunger profligate kids who don’t like contracts or honoring their obligations so I’ll just cancel their debt and worry about things like legality or taxpayers later”. That’s mostly all I see out of the den side too. Reactionary, not trying to long term plan and execute a strategy just some high level goodies for someone else to worry and out transmission to the public and future consequences.

Agree completely on the debt game. I would MUCH prefer that Biden make training/education free at State Schools than cancel old debt.

That said, Biden got us infrastructure. That's not a game, that's badly needed, and more than overdue. And if the R's weren't playing games, that bill would have been much larger, and have actual, real benefits to Americans.

Why do we need to go right to open surgery? Start with an antibiotic. Add physical therapy, maybe laproscopy. Expand free and lower cost Community College. Work to ensure junior college degrees and classes translate to credit at state universities.

We don't! Did you not see the bolded phrase?

I'd be 100% ok to start with free training for trades-----electrician, plumbing, construction, et. al. We're short on those trades in the millions. Heck, lump "coding/programming" in with those. THEN do college. Works for me. We've done NOTHING about the skills and labor gap for decades. I have NO problem pushing kids into training, and give college bound kids the middle finger for a change. Sign me up.

Agreed. I have been in a construction trade association for nearly 40 years, and workforce development has been an issue the entire time. We were doing outreach to the released prison population, and they couldn't get on certain jobs, such as school work, because of their record. We need to pick a point in education where the road forks and you are pointed in the direction where you have the best chance to be successful in life commensurate with your abilities and aptitude. It's way more compassionate than saying you need to go the college prep track. One size does not fit all.

As far as college tuition financing/loan forgiveness, tuitions are as high as they are because of the federal student loan program. Every time they raised the amount you could borrow, the colleges raised their tuition. How about limiting the amount you could borrow based on your potential earnings. If you're studying to be a cardiac surgeon, you can borrow more than someone going for a degree in social work. Works like most mortgages do. You need to demonstrate the ability to pay back the loan.