Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[6ftstick]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

And enablers like you allow it all to progress to the next level of violence.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

And enablers like you allow it all to progress to the next level of violence.

[6ftstick]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

And enablers like you allow it all to progress to the next level of violence.

Hysterical that the folks that want to erase history have to go back 70 80 years to find examples to support their agenda

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

And enablers like you allow it all to progress to the next level of violence.

Hysterical that the folks that want to erase history have to go back 70 80 years to find examples to support their agenda

The point is history repeats itself and nothing is truly new. Of course you missed that. Erase history? You were taught about the Elaine Massacre? Are you and educator? I am in finance.

[MDlaxfan76]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

And enablers like you allow it all to progress to the next level of violence.

Really? How so?
I'm for prosecuting anyone who turns to violence and destruction. Period.

I'm also for justice for those mistreated by the police.

These are NOT in conflict.

[cradleandshoot]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

[Kismet]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

[Peter Brown]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

This anger manifests itself in the wanton looting of Gucci handbags and North Face jackets, arson and burning down shops and restaurants owned by people who don't even know what's going on, attempted murder of young kids like Kyle Rittenhouse, yelling at innocent bystanders who are attempting to have a meal, and of course for the piece de resitance, throwing molotov cocktails at policeman's heads!

Totally understandable!

Know your real enemy, folks.

[cradleandshoot]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

This is nothing unusual. It has been happening in city after city year after year for as long as anyone can remember. In fact, I was guess it’s not quite as bad as it was. Thousands of incidents like that over the years. Thousands.

[cradleandshoot]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

This is nothing unusual. It has been happening in city after city year after year for as long as anyone can remember. In fact, I was guess it’s not quite as bad as it was. Thousands of incidents like that over the years. Thousands.

I would disagree to the extent when the Chief of Police knows about it and tries to hide the facts it goes way beyond a problem with the officers on the street. Chief Singletary by all reports is as strait an arrow as you could ever find. He never had a single incident recorded against him in 20 years. If you can't trust him who can you trust?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

This is nothing unusual. It has been happening in city after city year after year for as long as anyone can remember. In fact, I was guess it’s not quite as bad as it was. Thousands of incidents like that over the years. Thousands.

I would disagree to the extent when the Chief of Police knows about it and tries to hide the facts it goes way beyond a problem with the officers on the street. Chief Singletary by all reports is as strait an arrow as you could ever find. He never had a single incident recorded against him in 20 years. If you can't trust him who can you trust?

I was talking about the essence of the situation. You ever see the movie Detroit?

[Peter Brown]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

As an outsider, I wholeheartedly disagree with you here, C&S.

Prude was on PCP. He was naked. He was spitting at officers. He was bleeding. He said "Give me that gun!".

It's too bad he died, but no one killed him other than himself. The police didn't kill him, that's for sure.

[cradleandshoot]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

As an outsider, I wholeheartedly disagree with you here, C&S.

Prude was on PCP. He was naked. He was spitting at officers. He was bleeding. He said "Give me that gun!".

It's too bad he died, but no one killed him other than himself. The police didn't kill him, that's for sure.

They left him naked on his face on a freezing cold night with snow coming down. There was not enough compassion and humanity from these officers to cover him with a blanket? I understand the man was mentally in bad shape. Rewind a bit and ask why strong memorial hospital released him from the ED with no direction or instructions to his family? That was a mere 4 hours before this took place. URMC Strong could have kept him for 36 hours for a psych evaluation. They just let him go knowing he was in bad shape.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

As an outsider, I wholeheartedly disagree with you here, C&S.

Prude was on PCP. He was naked. He was spitting at officers. He was bleeding. He said "Give me that gun!".

It's too bad he died, but no one killed him other than himself. The police didn't kill him, that's for sure.

They left him naked on his face on a freezing cold night with snow coming down. There was not enough compassion and humanity from these officers to cover him with a blanket? I understand the man was mentally in bad shape. Rewind a bit and ask why strong memorial hospital released him from the ED with no direction or instructions to his family? That was a mere 4 hours before this took place. URMC Strong could have kept him for 36 hours for a psych evaluation. They just let him go knowing he was in bad shape.

George Floyd also died of a drug overdose and other natural causes.

[CU88]

I am all in on this defunding of police, mob style shakedown is BS.

https://www.newamerica.org/weekly/we-ne ... orfeiture/

[6ftstick]

We have many smart people here. Some play doctors on a lax forum.

Serious question.

How can you die of asphyxiation 5 days after you were allegedly choked and then hospitalized?

[Peter Brown]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

As an outsider, I wholeheartedly disagree with you here, C&S.

Prude was on PCP. He was naked. He was spitting at officers. He was bleeding. He said "Give me that gun!".

It's too bad he died, but no one killed him other than himself. The police didn't kill him, that's for sure.

They left him naked on his face on a freezing cold night with snow coming down. There was not enough compassion and humanity from these officers to cover him with a blanket? I understand the man was mentally in bad shape. Rewind a bit and ask why strong memorial hospital released him from the ED with no direction or instructions to his family? That was a mere 4 hours before this took place. URMC Strong could have kept him for 36 hours for a psych evaluation. They just let him go knowing he was in bad shape.

I don't blame the police for the hospital's issues. That all said, I bet if I dug in, NY State laws prescribe exactly how Prude was released. I don't have time to do so, but generally state laws govern 5150 holds etc...

The police again are being blamed for being put in a spot where no one (TLD) who blames them would have done anything differently. He did not die of hypothermia. Like I said, it's a shame, but in no way do I assign blame to police when any dude is on PCP and acting the way Prude was. You try touching a guy who is bleeding, defecating, spitting, urinating, screaming and weighs over 250. His heart raced out is all.

[SCLaxAttack]

We have many smart people here. Some play doctors on a lax forum.

Serious question.

How can you die of asphyxiation 5 days after you were allegedly choked and then hospitalized?

Not a doctor, but found this definition: “the state or process of being deprived of oxygen, which can result in unconsciousness or death; suffocation.”

Since it’s a process, I’d guess damage to his airway resulted in a slower death than a fast suffocation.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Well count me with those who would say those chants back in 2015 weren't ok and indeed hurt the movement at the time.

I don't think those were actually outside agitators, that was just a few folks who even then didn't represent the whole of the movement...and weren't trained in peaceful protesting. There were a bunch of folks working in the ensuing years to deal with community leaders on how protesting can be most effective...witness how non-violent Baltimore was this round as a result. This is always tenuous, as not everyone who is angry is on board with the peaceful tactics and rhetoric.

But there were a heck of a lot of protests this year, dwarfing anything seen back in 2015, and the chants were quite different, though the outrage was much the same.

But we've also had widespread looting, much of which does appear to be a combination of opportunist looters and those seeking maximum division, whether from the far right or the far left.

How many of those people spewing that hatred in 2015 are now a part of the movement today? Who knows? Maybe a few hundred, a few thousand... the point is there are still people that are a part of the movement that hate the police and will do everything in their power to undermine law enforcement whenever possible. There are the majority of BLM protesters that want change. There sadly others that see an opportunity to spread chaos and anger.

Probably so, but there are now many millions who've joined the movement who certainly don't 'hate the police', though they hate the racial insensitivity and violence toward blacks, and they want change. No more putting up with abuse and abusive policing. They also believe that systematic racism is real and that it is no longer enough to 'not be a racist', we need to be actively anti-racist if we are to overcome the systemic legacy.

I agree, and so does Mitt Romney and many millions more...does that mean we 'hate the police'...not at all.

But yeah, there are likely some who want to 'spread chaos and anger'.

You think it is possible that some of the "bad apples" are manipulating peoples emotions towards what they tell them they should believe? Never let a good crisis go to waste. Why is it that at every rally someone inevitably starts throwing stuff at the police? Why is it that the leaders at these rallies tolerate this behavior? Rule #1 for a peaceful protest march should be do not throw objects at the police. That is not a very difficult concept to grasp.

You mean bad apples like in your own Rochester P.D. who amended their report on Daniel Prude?


I'd be interested in your response to this.

It is open yet moronic stuff like this that often gets people really angry.

There is no question the RPD has more than its share of bad apples. The Daniel Prude case is bizarre in many respects. His detainment by the RPD and necessity to be sent to the hospital is determined by RPD standard procedures to be an "unusual event" All such events require a copy of the incident be sent to the Chief of Police ( LaRon Alexander ) and the Mayor ( Lovely Warren ) within 24 hours. The mayor and the chief were aware of what happened, they had to have been. The Union leader for the RPD knew about it the next day and made his own inquiries as to what happened. In short the callous actions of these officers is only made worse by why the leadership in the RPD and the City of Rochester sat on this incident. There is one small part of this I do not understand. One of the suspended officers was not even there when the incident occurred. They apparently went up the chain of command and started lopping off heads. There is much more to this to be revealed. The people protesting in Rochester have every right to be ticked off. The actions of these officers was inexcusable. The actions of their leadership is proving to be equally as inexcusable.

As an outsider, I wholeheartedly disagree with you here, C&S.

Prude was on PCP. He was naked. He was spitting at officers. He was bleeding. He said "Give me that gun!".

It's too bad he died, but no one killed him other than himself. The police didn't kill him, that's for sure.

They left him naked on his face on a freezing cold night with snow coming down. There was not enough compassion and humanity from these officers to cover him with a blanket? I understand the man was mentally in bad shape. Rewind a bit and ask why strong memorial hospital released him from the ED with no direction or instructions to his family? That was a mere 4 hours before this took place. URMC Strong could have kept him for 36 hours for a psych evaluation. They just let him go knowing he was in bad shape.

I don't blame the police for the hospital's issues. That all said, I bet if I dug in, NY State laws prescribe exactly how Prude was released. I don't have time to do so, but generally state laws govern 5150 holds etc...

The police again are being blamed for being put in a spot where no one (TLD) who blames them would have done anything differently. He did not die of hypothermia. Like I said, it's a shame, but in no way do I assign blame to police when any dude is on PCP and acting the way Prude was. You try touching a guy who is bleeding, defecating, spitting, urinating, screaming and weighs over 250. His heart raced out is all.

Like I have said before, we need better training and a different approach to many of these issues.....Along with weeding out bad cops.