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Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:48 am
by another fan
They lost their best O mid (Blake) and another front line mid (Lombardi), and their second line is new and seeing less time so I agree with your conclusion about the o mids. That second line is improving, though, and continued progress is key. Shorties were projected to be thin, but overall have been playing pretty well. You did not mention face offs and wing play which has been up and down. With a great attack and thinned midfield, Cornell needs its fair share of possessions.
At this point, Cornell is very interesting— capable of beating anybody ( probably excluding Maryland), but also capable of having a very tough time against multiple teams if things don’t break well for them. But as we heard and saw last night, they never stop playing hard.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:17 pm
by Can Opener
I thought it might be useful to put the Ivy standings, RPI and remaining games on a single page. Thanks to the Cornell win last night, the Ivy RPI is strong and teams won’t be overly penalized for losing to other high RPI teams. Realistically, the most dangerous OOC games remaining for the Ivies are Cornell hosting Army and Penn hosting St. Joe’s. Additionally, Brown hosting Bryant midweek has been hard to forecast historically.
As for the Ivy tournament, if you assume that Cornell, Yale and Princeton are all very likely to make it, that leaves Harvard, Penn and Brown battling it out for the last spot. Harvard is sorta in the driver’s seat at 2-1, but a gambling man would have to say that they are likely to lose their last three games and finish 2-4. That is probably the only hope for Brown, since they are unlikely to beat both Cornell and Yale. 3-3 is their likely ceiling and Harvard owns the tiebreaker if they also finish 3-3. Brown owns the tiebreaker over Penn so if those two teams finish 3-3, Brown dances. Penn is favored to win their last two Ivy games to finish 3-3, but ironically, that sets up the strange scenario where Brown could go to the ILT, but Penn would get the NCAA nod over them thanks to a higher RPI (assuming a first round Brown loss).
Sadly for Brown State, if Harvard beats Penn in Philly Saturday, the ILT is basically set with Harvard guaranteed no worse than a 3-3 record with tiebreaker wins over Penn and Brown.
As for having five Ivy teams dance, that’s a little hard to envision. The most likely scenario would be if Penn beats Harvard, but then Harvard wins the rest of its remaining games against Yale and Princeton. Links to RPI and the Ivy tiebreakers are below. My brain hurts, but I hope this is somewhat helpful.
Cornell 3-1 RPI #6
Army h
Brown h
Princeton a
Yale 3-1 #4 RPI
Brown a
Albany h
Quinnipiac h
Harvard h
Princeton 2-1 #2 RPI
Dartmouth h
Harvard a
Cornell h
Harvard 2-1 RPI #9
Penn a
Princeton h
Yale a
Brown 1-2 RPI #17
Yale h
Cornell a
Bryant h
Dartmouth h
Penn 1-3 RPI #8
Harvard h
Dartmouth a
St. Joe’s h
Albany a
Dartmouth 0-3 #33
Princeton a
Penn h
Brown a
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... crosse-rpi
https://ivyleague.com/sports/2018/4/17/ ... 80748.aspx
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:35 pm
by DocBarrister
Can Opener wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:17 pm
I thought it might be useful to put the Ivy standings, RPI and remaining games on a single page. Thanks to the Cornell win last night, the Ivy RPI is strong and teams won’t be overly penalized for losing to other high RPI teams. Realistically, the most dangerous OOC games remaining for the Ivies are Cornell hosting Army and Penn hosting St. Joe’s. Additionally, Brown hosting Bryant midweek has been hard to forecast historically.
As for the Ivy tournament, if you assume that Cornell, Yale and Princeton are all very likely to make it, that leaves Harvard, Penn and Brown battling it out for the last spot. Harvard is sorta in the driver’s seat at 2-1, but a gambling man would have to say that they are likely to lose their last three games and finish 2-4. That is probably the only hope for Brown, since they are unlikely to beat both Cornell and Yale. 3-3 is their likely ceiling and Harvard owns the tiebreaker if they also finish 3-3. Brown owns the tiebreaker over Penn so if those two teams finish 3-3, Brown dances. Penn is favored to win their last two Ivy games to finish 3-3, but ironically, that sets up the strange scenario where Brown could go to the ILT, but Penn would get the NCAA nod over them thanks to a higher RPI (assuming a first round Brown loss).
Sadly for Brown State, if Harvard beats Penn in Philly Saturday, the ILT is basically set with Harvard guaranteed no worse than a 3-3 record with tiebreaker wins over Penn and Brown.
As for having five Ivy teams dance, that’s a little hard to envision. The most likely scenario would be if Penn beats Harvard, but then Harvard wins the rest of its remaining games against Yale and Princeton. Links to RPI and the Ivy tiebreakers are below. My brain hurts, but I hope this is somewhat helpful.
Cornell 3-1 RPI #6
Army h
Brown h
Princeton a
Yale 3-1 #4 RPI
Brown a
Albany h
Quinnipiac h
Harvard h
Princeton 2-1 #2 RPI
Dartmouth h
Harvard a
Cornell h
Harvard 2-1 RPI #9
Penn a
Princeton h
Yale a
Brown 1-2 RPI #17
Yale h
Cornell a
Bryant h
Dartmouth h
Penn 1-3 RPI #8
Harvard h
Dartmouth a
St. Joe’s h
Albany a
Dartmouth 0-3 #33
Princeton a
Penn h
Brown a
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... crosse-rpi
https://ivyleague.com/sports/2018/4/17/ ... 80748.aspx
Hey Can O, aren’t you a former Yale lax player?
This is way too much figurin’ and mathicle stuff for this forum.
But thanks for tryin’.
Guess the bottom line is … Cornell, Yale, and Princeton are in good shape. Harvard, Penn, and Brown … not so much.
And Dartmouth is … ummm … unique.
DocBarrister
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:49 pm
by Farfromgeneva
If your last place team is a sub 35 RPI your conference is doing soemthing right.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:57 pm
by ICGrad
So CO...always love your posts. Thanks for this breakdown.
Harvard is a pretty interesting case; @ 7-2 with a 9 RPI, and that schedule left, could they Johns Hopkins their way into the tournament by riding "good" losses to highly ranked teams? If they go 0-3 over their last 3 games, they're still 7-5 and I imagine with that murderers row of competition remaining their RPI won't take too much of a hit.
Anyway, should be a pretty interesting final 3 weeks of the season.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:52 pm
by 10stone5
laf / Laxpower has got his power ratings and other measures
site up.
One interesting exercise.
This link does the RPI SOS and other calcs.
http://college.laxpower2.com/menx/rating01x.php
You can sort by conference.
There’s no compare, the Ivy v the other conferences.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:17 am
by Farfromgeneva
Denver at 11 is interesting. They’ve been written off already by lost but at that point they’re in the mix.
Also interesting to note w PSUs #4 SOS and superior QW vs Yale, are we sure PSUs worse or had a worse season than Hopkins? If the seasons are comparable in reality (vs perception) what does that say about the two programs seasons compared with preseason or early season expectations?
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:29 pm
by DCIII
Please pardon this complete non sequitur at this advanced point in the season, but I think it's very interesting to note the fairly different traffic patterns amongst the various Team pages on this site. Not sure why the divergence but I certainly don't think it's a result of a different level of fanaticism amongst the various school/team supporters. Any thoughts?
# pages
This Thread 38
Cornell 51
Yale 24
Brown 12
Dartmouth 9
Penn 6
Harvard 1
Princeton 1
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:24 pm
by MoralTerpitude
DCIII wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:29 pm
Please pardon this complete non sequitur at this advanced point in the season, but I think it's very interesting to note the fairly different traffic patterns amongst the various Team pages on this site. Not sure why the divergence but I certainly don't think it's a result of a different level of fanaticism amongst the various school/team supporters. Any thoughts?
# pages
This Thread 38
4 Cornell 51
2 Yale 24
1 Brown 12
0 Dartmouth 9
0 Penn 6
0 Harvard 1
0 Princeton 1
Number of NCAA Final Fours in the last 15 tournaments.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:39 pm
by DCIII
I guess I was thinking that fan engagement would be equally or more correlated to/driven by current success....in particular Princeton.
with Rankings:
# pages
This Thread 38
5 Cornell 51
4 Yale 24
17 Brown 12
Dartmouth 9
11Penn 6
13 Harvard 1
3 Princeton 1
But then again there's Hopkins with 238 pages....
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 pm
by RopeUnit
Still irks me that Penn v Yale in 2019 was a QF matchup and not setup for the Final Four. Not expecting anything reasonable this year from the committee—betting all Ivies on the same side of the bracket.
MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:24 pm
DCIII wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:29 pm
Please pardon this complete non sequitur at this advanced point in the season, but I think it's very interesting to note the fairly different traffic patterns amongst the various Team pages on this site. Not sure why the divergence but I certainly don't think it's a result of a different level of fanaticism amongst the various school/team supporters. Any thoughts?
# pages
This Thread 38
4 Cornell 51
2 Yale 24
1 Brown 12
0 Dartmouth 9
0 Penn 6
0 Harvard 1
0 Princeton 1
Number of NCAA Final Fours in the last 15 tournaments.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:04 pm
by MoralTerpitude
RopeUnit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 pm
Still irks me that Penn v Yale in 2019 was a QF matchup and not setup for the Final Four. Not expecting anything reasonable this year from the committee—betting all Ivies on the same side of the bracket.
Amen. Still annoys me that Maryland had to travel to Notre Dame (probably the third best team in the tournament) for their quarterfinal last year.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:09 pm
by Can Opener
RopeUnit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 pm
Still irks me that Penn v Yale in 2019 was a QF matchup and not setup for the Final Four. Not expecting anything reasonable this year from the committee—betting all Ivies on the same side of the bracket.
MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:24 pm
DCIII wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:29 pm
Please pardon this complete non sequitur at this advanced point in the season, but I think it's very interesting to note the fairly different traffic patterns amongst the various Team pages on this site. Not sure why the divergence but I certainly don't think it's a result of a different level of fanaticism amongst the various school/team supporters. Any thoughts?
# pages
This Thread 38
4 Cornell 51
2 Yale 24
1 Brown 12
0 Dartmouth 9
0 Penn 6
0 Harvard 1
0 Princeton 1
Number of NCAA Final Fours in the last 15 tournaments.
Agreed! The Ivies need to each rent a vacant row house in Balto and declare that their home address. Watch their tournament seedings ratchet up instantly.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:58 pm
by faircornell
Can Opener wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:09 pm
RopeUnit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 pm
Still irks me that Penn v Yale in 2019 was a QF matchup and not setup for the Final Four. Not expecting anything reasonable this year from the committee—betting all Ivies on the same side of the bracket.
MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:24 pm
DCIII wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:29 pm
Please pardon this complete non sequitur at this advanced point in the season, but I think it's very interesting to note the fairly different traffic patterns amongst the various Team pages on this site. Not sure why the divergence but I certainly don't think it's a result of a different level of fanaticism amongst the various school/team supporters. Any thoughts?
# pages
This Thread 38
4 Cornell 51
2 Yale 24
1 Brown 12
0 Dartmouth 9
0 Penn 6
0 Harvard 1
0 Princeton 1
Number of NCAA Final Fours in the last 15 tournaments.
Agreed! The Ivies need to each rent a vacant row house in Balto and declare that their home address. Watch their tournament seedings ratchet up instantly.
Most of the early bracket predictions I've seen have Ivies knocking each other out in the first round. I'm not sure how "bracketologists" come to this conclusion.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:43 pm
by bearlaxfan
RopeUnit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 pm
Still irks me that Penn v Yale in 2019 was a QF matchup and not setup for the Final Four. Not expecting anything reasonable this year from the committee—betting all Ivies on the same side of the bracket.
2016 was set up for Yale/Brown quarter except Navy upset Yale in 1st round.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:00 pm
by calourie
faircornell wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:58 pm
Can Opener wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:09 pm
RopeUnit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:49 pm
Still irks me that Penn v Yale in 2019 was a QF matchup and not setup for the Final Four. Not expecting anything reasonable this year from the committee—betting all Ivies on the same side of the bracket.
MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:24 pm
DCIII wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:29 pm
Please pardon this complete non sequitur at this advanced point in the season, but I think it's very interesting to note the fairly different traffic patterns amongst the various Team pages on this site. Not sure why the divergence but I certainly don't think it's a result of a different level of fanaticism amongst the various school/team supporters. Any thoughts?
# pages
This Thread 38
4 Cornell 51
2 Yale 24
1 Brown 12
0 Dartmouth 9
0 Penn 6
0 Harvard 1
0 Princeton 1
Number of NCAA Final Fours in the last 15 tournaments.
Agreed! The Ivies need to each rent a vacant row house in Balto and declare that their home address. Watch their tournament seedings ratchet up instantly.
Most of the early bracket predictions I've seen have Ivies knocking each other out in the first round. I'm not sure how "bracketologists" come to this conclusion.
None of the early brackets I've seen have any of the Ivies meeting in round 1, round 2 yes.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:10 pm
by MoralTerpitude
Pretty sure conference foes cannot meet in the first round.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:51 pm
by faircornell
MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:10 pm
Pretty sure conference foes cannot meet in the first round.
Good to know. Thanks.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:31 pm
by nms
Watching Rutgers vs. Michigan, and just heard Quint say that RPI does not work for college lacrosse and that the NCAA has to find a new criteria. I doubt he was saying that in the years the ACC was benefiting. Now that the Ivies have a good year, we need a new system.
Re: Ivy League 2022
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:51 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
nms wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:31 pm
Watching Rutgers vs. Michigan, and just heard Quint say that RPI does not work for college lacrosse and that the NCAA has to find a new criteria. I doubt he was saying that in the years the ACC was benefiting. Now that the Ivies have a good year, we need a new system.
More lacrosse mafia stuff.