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Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 pm
by a fan
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:21 pm
Latest Trump Tweets:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 56544?s=20
I am currently at the United Nations representing our Country, but have authorized the release tomorrow of the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine....
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
....You will see it was a very friendly and totally appropriate call. No pressure and, unlike Joe Biden and his son, NO quid pro quo! This is nothing more than a continuation of the Greatest and most Destructive Witch Hunt of all time!
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
If he releases the transcripts and there is no there, there.... he wins the next election. I'm calling it.
If there's no there there, the problem is the Inspector General-----Trump appointed-----not the "Resistance."
He is the one who said, in writing, that there is something there.
Edit to add for Old Salt: This is yet another reason following the Whistleblower Act has value. There are checks and balances built in. It doesn't make it to the Intel Committee if it's a nothingburger.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 pm
by RedFromMI
Oh - and now Richard Burr of the Senate IC wants to talk with the whistleblower...
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:36 pm
by RedFromMI
One final addition regarding the "unredacted transcripts" - normally there are no such things, just note taking on what was generally said, and usually written to not embarass the boss with the contents.
Not much of a transcript likely.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:37 pm
by CU88
RedFromMI wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:21 pm
Latest Trump Tweets:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 56544?s=20
I am currently at the United Nations representing our Country, but have authorized the release tomorrow of the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine....
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
....You will see it was a very friendly and totally appropriate call. No pressure and, unlike Joe Biden and his son, NO quid pro quo! This is nothing more than a continuation of the Greatest and most Destructive Witch Hunt of all time!
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
If he releases the transcripts and there is no there, there.... he wins the next election. I'm calling it.
Transcripts are not enough - need to see whistleblower report and ideally actual recording of phone conversation. You can hide tone and emphasis via a transcript, and it is fairly obvious that the one phone call is not the only operative action here. For example, the hidden holding up of the money Congress had authorized, with bogus reasons to do so (to the point when meeting with Senator Murphy of CT the new president of Ukraine complained about the holdup...).
And there does NOT have to be a specific quid pro quo in such phone call - the holdup of the money is more than enough as the "hammer" in the extortive attempt to get Ukraine to gin up an investigation and manufacture dirt on Biden.
+1
Our elected representatives need to see the whistleblower complaint and hear from the whistleblower. Period.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:43 pm
by CU88
RedFromMI wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 pm
Oh - and now Richard Burr of the Senate IC wants to talk with the whistleblower...
Good and Bipartisan approach to getting the facts
https://news.yahoo.com/senate-intel-pan ... 18049.html
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:03 pm
by seacoaster
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:33 pm
by old salt
Did this WB attend any Georgetown Prep or Yale parties in the '80's ?
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:52 pm
by a fan
Old Salt, you're better than this.
Out of this mess that is politics in the US in 2019, the one freaking guy who's following the rules, and the rule of law is this whistleblower.
You should give this person the highest respect. Mocking him/her is beneath you. Aim your fire at worthy targets....there's plenty to shoot at....
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:54 pm
by seacoaster
"Mocking him/her is beneath you."
We keep thinking and saying this; maybe it's not true; maybe this isn't beneath him.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:59 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:54 pm
"Mocking him/her is beneath you."
We keep thinking and saying this; maybe it's not true; maybe this isn't beneath him.
It isn’t.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:09 pm
by Trinity
Pelosi has opened a formal Impeachment Inquiry, suggesting Trump has done what he’s already admitted. Time for the Trumpers to answer subpoenas. Maybe you can’t hold the door open for foreign interference in our elections.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:24 pm
by Trinity
Pelosi said he would Impeach himself. He’s halfway there tonight. The Senate just voted by unanimous consent to see the Whistle Blower complaint. Not just the transcript. Karen Pence suddenly active on Twitter. Hmmm
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:10 pm
by MDlaxfan76
CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:37 pm
RedFromMI wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:21 pm
Latest Trump Tweets:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 56544?s=20
I am currently at the United Nations representing our Country, but have authorized the release tomorrow of the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine....
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
....You will see it was a very friendly and totally appropriate call. No pressure and, unlike Joe Biden and his son, NO quid pro quo! This is nothing more than a continuation of the Greatest and most Destructive Witch Hunt of all time!
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
If he releases the transcripts and there is no there, there.... he wins the next election. I'm calling it.
Transcripts are not enough - need to see whistleblower report and ideally actual recording of phone conversation. You can hide tone and emphasis via a transcript, and it is fairly obvious that the one phone call is not the only operative action here. For example, the hidden holding up of the money Congress had authorized, with bogus reasons to do so (to the point when meeting with Senator Murphy of CT the new president of Ukraine complained about the holdup...).
And there does NOT have to be a specific quid pro quo in such phone call - the holdup of the money is more than enough as the "hammer" in the extortive attempt to get Ukraine to gin up an investigation and manufacture dirt on Biden.
+1
Our elected representatives need to see the whistleblower complaint and hear from the whistleblower. Period.
Let's not forget Rudy's involvement.
It's pretty clear that IF Trump didn't expressly imply some sort of quid pro quo in this particular call, in which he's already admitted he pushed for Ukraine to investigate Biden, Rudy had additional discussions on the topic. None of that is protected by attorney-client privilege.
Bottomline, the request for a foreign state to investigate a political adversary is a very serious abuse of power.
Beyond the pale.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:13 pm
by Trinity
Trump will accept no oversight. On anything. All hail King Donald.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:37 pm
by ggait
I expect the "transcript" will be far less than a verbatim record like you get with a court stenographer. And who will actually believe what Trump and Barr release? We've seen them do this before.
The full WB complaint (without BS redactions) is way more relevant.
Anyone know the chances that there's actually a recording of Trump's phone call?
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:47 pm
by youthathletics
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:21 pm
Latest Trump Tweets:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 56544?s=20
I am currently at the United Nations representing our Country, but have authorized the release tomorrow of the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine....
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
....You will see it was a very friendly and totally appropriate call. No pressure and, unlike Joe Biden and his son, NO quid pro quo! This is nothing more than a continuation of the Greatest and most Destructive Witch Hunt of all time!
2:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019
If he releases the transcripts and there is no there, there.... he wins the next election. I'm calling it.
If there's no there there, the problem is the Inspector General-----Trump appointed-----not the "Resistance."
He is the one who said, in writing, that there is something there.
Edit to add for Old Salt: This is yet another reason following the Whistleblower Act has value. There are checks and balances built in. It doesn't make it to the Intel Committee if it's a nothingburger.
I am not defending Trump in my next comments, but it is my understanding that the WB Act laws are on the books to primarily protect the WB....yes, I understand what the WB says must follow proper channels through the gov't, BUT when it involves a sitting POTUS I have heard that the path travels only but so far, primarily because it may hinder our nations ability to perform their assigned duties with others or jeopardize any current American diplomacy activities.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:54 pm
by seacoaster
The principal purpose of the WB law is to protect the WB’er and allow her or his complaints to be evaluated with care, by the right people (you know, in a democracy), and without fear of retaliation.
The DNI basically screwed all those things up.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:01 pm
by ggait
I am not defending Trump in my next comments, but it is my understanding that the WB Act laws are on the books to primarily protect the WB....yes, I understand what the WB says must follow proper channels through the gov't, BUT when it involves a sitting POTUS I have heard that the path travels only but so far, primarily because it may hinder our nations ability to perform their assigned duties with others or jeopardize any current American diplomacy activities.
My understanding is that the IC inspector general understands exactly how this is supposed to work. And he said -- duh -- turn the forking report over to Congress.
This only got forked up when toady DNI and toady AG got involved to stonewall what was clearly supposed to happen here.
Fortunately, the toady position didn't hold up for long. Rule of law wins.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:06 pm
by a fan
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:47 pm
I am not defending Trump in my next comments, but it is my understanding that the WB Act laws are on the books to primarily protect the WB....yes, I understand what the WB says must follow proper channels through the gov't, BUT when it involves a sitting POTUS I have heard that the path travels only but so far......
That certainly was Nixon's argument. That's what you're going with here?
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:16 pm
by DocBarrister
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:06 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:47 pm
I am not defending Trump in my next comments, but it is my understanding that the WB Act laws are on the books to primarily protect the WB....yes, I understand what the WB says must follow proper channels through the gov't, BUT when it involves a sitting POTUS I have heard that the path travels only but so far......
That certainly was Nixon's argument. That's what you're going with here?
He’s obviously part of the “Burn the tapes!” crowd.
Trump is in serious trouble here. Have yet to hear a Republican state that coercing a foreign leader to dig dirt on a political opponent is in any way acceptable. Even the corrupt and dishonest Faux News isn’t going there.
Trump just shot someone on 5th Avenue. We’ll see how the Party of Stupid reacts.
DocBarrister
