LaxPower Back-Up Stick

This has not been a good war for Russia’s Black Sea flagships.

Russia’s Black Sea flagship vessel, the Admiral Makarov, was damaged and possibly disabled during an audacious Ukrainian drone attack over the weekend on the Crimean port of Sevastopol, according to an examination of video footage.
Open-source investigators said the frigate was one of three Russian ships to have been hit on Saturday. A swarm of drones – some flying in the air, others skimming rapidly along the water – struck Russia’s navy at 4.20 am. Video from one of the sea drones shows the unmanned vehicle weaving between enemy boats.

Ukrainian officials said it was unclear if the Admiral Makarov was badly crippled, or had escaped with light damage. Unconfirmed reports said its hull was breached and radar systems smashed. Social media recorded loud explosions in the southern part of Sevastopol, in an area known as Riflemen’s Bay. A Russian navy school is located nearby.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... o-suggests

DocBarrister

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:26 am This has not been a good war for Russia’s Black Sea flagships.

Russia’s Black Sea flagship vessel, the Admiral Makarov, was damaged and possibly disabled during an audacious Ukrainian drone attack over the weekend on the Crimean port of Sevastopol, according to an examination of video footage.
Open-source investigators said the frigate was one of three Russian ships to have been hit on Saturday. A swarm of drones – some flying in the air, others skimming rapidly along the water – struck Russia’s navy at 4.20 am. Video from one of the sea drones shows the unmanned vehicle weaving between enemy boats.

Ukrainian officials said it was unclear if the Admiral Makarov was badly crippled, or had escaped with light damage. Unconfirmed reports said its hull was breached and radar systems smashed. Social media recorded loud explosions in the southern part of Sevastopol, in an area known as Riflemen’s Bay. A Russian navy school is located nearby.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... o-suggests

DocBarrister

Minimal damage to Russian ships but provided a pretext to reimpose the blockade, choking off grain exports.
Stupid move by Ukraine, eroding support for their cause from the many nations harmed by the grain shortages.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/30/eu-urge ... nsion.html

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:45 pm Same "reasoning" despite the protestations of Queen Gertrude (Old Salt).

Dispatch to afan from Queen Gertrude (he has now resorted to childish name calling)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e-war.html

​​How Russia Pays for War
By Lazaro Gamio and Ana SwansonOct. 30, 2022

International trade with Russia boomed this year, even as countries imposed sanctions after the Ukraine invasion.
As restrictions take effect, Moscow’s alliances have been shifting.

Countries vowed to sever economic ties with Russia and imposed sanctions that were intended to cripple its economy after it invaded Ukraine. But as one of the world’s most important producers of oil, gas and raw materials, Russia has had longstanding and lucrative trade partnerships. Breaking those ties is not easy.

In 2020, Russia imported $220 billion of products from the rest of the world, including cars and car parts, medicine and computers, buying heavily from China, Germany, Korea and elsewhere.

The volume of its imports has since plunged as sanctions and trade limits went into effect, according to a New York Times analysis of trade data. But a few countries, including China and Turkey, have deepened their relationships with Russia since the war began.

Many countries have found living without Russian raw materials incredibly difficult. More than two-thirds of Russia’s exports by value before the war were oil, gas and key metals and minerals, which help to power cars, warm homes and supply factories all over the globe.

That has led to a frustrating reality for Western officials who had hoped to undercut Russia’s war effort by punishing its economy: The value of its exports actually grew after it invaded Ukraine, The Times analysis shows, even in many countries that have taken an active role in opposing Russia.

Russia’s relationship with the world is continuing to evolve rapidly. To assess the global shifts, The Times analyzed years of country-level trade data compiled by the Observatory of Economic Complexity, an online data platform. Because the data is published with a lag, the picture it provides is inherently backward looking. Russia’s ability to trade with the rest of the world could be further curtailed in the coming months as the West introduces new restrictions.

But so far, the data underscores how deeply intertwined Russia is with the global economy, allowing Moscow to generate substantial sums of money as it enters its ninth month of war. Attempts by Western nations to use sanctions and other measures to cripple Russia’s economy have so far had limited effects.

“It’s very difficult to live without Russian resources,” said Sergey Aleksashenko, the former deputy finance minister of Russia and deputy chairman of its central bank. “There is no substitute.”

As it drags on, the war, and the world’s response to it, are bringing about a remarkable change in international trade flows. Food is in short supply in many countries that rely on wheat and other staples grown outside their borders. Prices for fuel and other products have risen at a time of record inflation. And Russia’s long-standing economic ties with Europe are gradually being unknotted, and new alliances are forming as goods are rerouted to other countries, the data shows.

The European Union, the United States and the United Kingdom have imposed harsh economic penalties on Russia, sanctioning hundreds of wealthy citizens and government officials and largely cutting the country off from the international financial system. They also vowed to stop sending advanced technology and banned Russian airlines from flying to the West.

Decisions by global companies to halt operations in Russia have also had a major impact. Container ships filled with foreign goods are no longer streaming into the port at St. Petersburg, a main point of connection with the rest of the world. And inflation and economic uncertainty are causing Russian consumers to cut back on buying the products still on store shelves.

But sanctions on the Russian energy that helps power Western economies have been slower to take effect. The United States has already cut off purchases of Russian oil, and the United Kingdom will do so by the end of the year. But neither country is a major buyer.

The European Union — which is heavily dependent on Russian energy, and, like many countries, is already struggling with inflation — has been slower to act. Europe stopped importing Russian coal in August. It will ban all imports of oil shipped by sea from Russia in December, and all petroleum products in February. Russia, in turn, has banned some of its own exports, including agricultural and medical products.

Oil and gas are Russia’s most important exports by far, and a major source of government funding. The high price of oil and gas in the last year has inflated the value of its exports, which has helped Moscow offset revenue lost because of sanctions. Gazprom, the state-run Russian energy giant, posted a record profit in the first half of this year, even as shipments to Europe began to slump.

The International Monetary Fund has repeatedly revised its forecasts this year for the Russian economy, saying it would contract by less than the organization had anticipated. The I.M.F. said in October that it expected the Russian economy to shrink by 3.4 percent this year, a much smaller contraction than the 6 percent it forecast in July and the 8.5 percent it expected in April.

“Russia has withstood the economic sanctions better than anticipated, aided by high oil and gas prices and our dependence on fossil fuels,” said Gilberto Garcia-Vazquez, chief economist at Datawheel, the company that operates the Observatory of Economic Complexity.

The new bans on oil and petroleum products that European officials will introduce in coming months could represent a major loss for Russia. But the oil that leaves Russia on ocean-going vessels will probably find its way to new markets. Since the invasion of Ukraine, India and China have emerged as much bigger buyers of Russian crude.

In turn, the countries that used to sell more oil to India and China — like Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Angola — may sell more oil to Europe. That would lead to a global “reshuffling of the energy market,” Mr. Aleksashenko said, in which Russian oil is merely diverted to new markets rather than being cut out.

How much money Russia will ultimately generate from its oil sales remains unclear. As demand for its products elsewhere has fallen, Moscow is being forced to sell its oil to India and China at a discounted rate. Western countries are now trying to introduce a price cap that will further limit how much revenue Moscow can earn from each barrel of oil sold.

So far, higher energy prices have offset those effects. Prices for benchmark oils like Brent crude and Urals — heavily traded varieties of crude oil that serve as global reference prices for buyers and sellers of oil — have fallen in recent months. But because energy prices were elevated for much of this year, Russia actually received more money from oil and gas sales in dollar terms from March to July than it had in previous years, according to the International Energy Agency.

Russia has had to sell at a discount, but high oil prices blunted the effect.
At the same time, Russia found new buyersfor its oil as Europe bought less.
This resulted in Russia seeing steady oil profits, although that will likely change.

In the longer run, Russia’s prospects for selling its gas look dimmer. Unlike its oil exports, where the majority is carried by tankers at sea, much of Russia’s gas leaves the country through pipelines that take years to construct, making it hard for Moscow to shift to new markets.

By July, Germany had cut the amount of natural gas it imported from Russia by half and turned to importing more from Norway and the United States. In September, the primary pipelines that carry gas from Russia to Germany were damaged in explosions.

Russia is trying to find buyers elsewhere for its gas. Its exports to China have increased, but it has only one existing pipeline to China that can move a fraction of the volume of its pipelines to Europe. To move gas by ship, Russia would need to build new facilities to liquefy the gas, an expensive and time-consuming process.

Apart from energy, Russia also continues to be a leading exporter of other essential commodities, ranging from fertilizer and asbestos and nuclear reactors to wheat. International car makers still depend on Russia for palladium and rhodium to make catalytic converters. French nuclear plants rely on Russian uranium, while Belgium is still playing a key role in Russia’s diamond trade.

Russia’s ample trade, and the war chest it has generated, could start to dwindle in the next year as more sanctions bite.

Alexander Gabuev, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said that he expects the volume of Russian exports to drop significantly in the longer run as Europe gradually turns to new sources of energy, and as further sanctions, including a potential oil price cap, take effect.

Developments in the war, where Russia has recently suffered a series of setbacks, could also influence economic relations. This weekend, it withdrew from a global agreement that would have allowed grain to be exported from Ukrainian ports. If Russia were to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, for example, that could galvanize more global sanctions that could cut Russia off from trade with Asia, Mr. Gabuev said.

“We’re going to see probably a different picture next year​​,” Mr. Gabuev said.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:07 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:26 am This has not been a good war for Russia’s Black Sea flagships.

Russia’s Black Sea flagship vessel, the Admiral Makarov, was damaged and possibly disabled during an audacious Ukrainian drone attack over the weekend on the Crimean port of Sevastopol, according to an examination of video footage.
Open-source investigators said the frigate was one of three Russian ships to have been hit on Saturday. A swarm of drones – some flying in the air, others skimming rapidly along the water – struck Russia’s navy at 4.20 am. Video from one of the sea drones shows the unmanned vehicle weaving between enemy boats.

Ukrainian officials said it was unclear if the Admiral Makarov was badly crippled, or had escaped with light damage. Unconfirmed reports said its hull was breached and radar systems smashed. Social media recorded loud explosions in the southern part of Sevastopol, in an area known as Riflemen’s Bay. A Russian navy school is located nearby.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... o-suggests

DocBarrister

Minimal damage to Russian ships but provided a pretext to reimpose the blockade, choking off grain exports.
Stupid move by Ukraine, eroding support for their cause from the many nations harmed by the grain shortages.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/30/eu-urge ... nsion.html

Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch? Should I just expect a rebuttal even if it read “Putin dies of aids, body and blood test is presented with video evidence, OS’ grandmother there holding Putin’s ID up while OS’ GP prepared the autopsy on a life feed” and you’re going to go “well he’s a genius so obviously he figured out how to fake his death despite all this and clearly he’s been hiding Tupac the whole time?”

Brooklyn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:38 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:37 pm


Sure keep on fighting Jimmy.

As always, no substantive answer whatsoever. Thank you for conceding that you have lost the debate.

Like I said before, small wins for small people. I’ll stick with long term greedy in life.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:37 am

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:45 pm Same "reasoning" despite the protestations of Queen Gertrude (Old Salt).

Dispatch to afan from Queen Gertrude (he has now resorted to childish name calling)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e-war.html

​​How Russia Pays for War
By Lazaro Gamio and Ana SwansonOct. 30, 2022

International trade with Russia boomed this year, even as countries imposed sanctions after the Ukraine invasion.
As restrictions take effect, Moscow’s alliances have been shifting.

Countries vowed to sever economic ties with Russia and imposed sanctions that were intended to cripple its economy after it invaded Ukraine. But as one of the world’s most important producers of oil, gas and raw materials, Russia has had longstanding and lucrative trade partnerships. Breaking those ties is not easy.

In 2020, Russia imported $220 billion of products from the rest of the world, including cars and car parts, medicine and computers, buying heavily from China, Germany, Korea and elsewhere.

The volume of its imports has since plunged as sanctions and trade limits went into effect, according to a New York Times analysis of trade data. But a few countries, including China and Turkey, have deepened their relationships with Russia since the war began.

Many countries have found living without Russian raw materials incredibly difficult. More than two-thirds of Russia’s exports by value before the war were oil, gas and key metals and minerals, which help to power cars, warm homes and supply factories all over the globe.

That has led to a frustrating reality for Western officials who had hoped to undercut Russia’s war effort by punishing its economy: The value of its exports actually grew after it invaded Ukraine, The Times analysis shows, even in many countries that have taken an active role in opposing Russia.

Russia’s relationship with the world is continuing to evolve rapidly. To assess the global shifts, The Times analyzed years of country-level trade data compiled by the Observatory of Economic Complexity, an online data platform. Because the data is published with a lag, the picture it provides is inherently backward looking. Russia’s ability to trade with the rest of the world could be further curtailed in the coming months as the West introduces new restrictions.

But so far, the data underscores how deeply intertwined Russia is with the global economy, allowing Moscow to generate substantial sums of money as it enters its ninth month of war. Attempts by Western nations to use sanctions and other measures to cripple Russia’s economy have so far had limited effects.

“It’s very difficult to live without Russian resources,” said Sergey Aleksashenko, the former deputy finance minister of Russia and deputy chairman of its central bank. “There is no substitute.”

As it drags on, the war, and the world’s response to it, are bringing about a remarkable change in international trade flows. Food is in short supply in many countries that rely on wheat and other staples grown outside their borders. Prices for fuel and other products have risen at a time of record inflation. And Russia’s long-standing economic ties with Europe are gradually being unknotted, and new alliances are forming as goods are rerouted to other countries, the data shows.

The European Union, the United States and the United Kingdom have imposed harsh economic penalties on Russia, sanctioning hundreds of wealthy citizens and government officials and largely cutting the country off from the international financial system. They also vowed to stop sending advanced technology and banned Russian airlines from flying to the West.

Decisions by global companies to halt operations in Russia have also had a major impact. Container ships filled with foreign goods are no longer streaming into the port at St. Petersburg, a main point of connection with the rest of the world. And inflation and economic uncertainty are causing Russian consumers to cut back on buying the products still on store shelves.

But sanctions on the Russian energy that helps power Western economies have been slower to take effect. The United States has already cut off purchases of Russian oil, and the United Kingdom will do so by the end of the year. But neither country is a major buyer.

The European Union — which is heavily dependent on Russian energy, and, like many countries, is already struggling with inflation — has been slower to act. Europe stopped importing Russian coal in August. It will ban all imports of oil shipped by sea from Russia in December, and all petroleum products in February. Russia, in turn, has banned some of its own exports, including agricultural and medical products.

Oil and gas are Russia’s most important exports by far, and a major source of government funding. The high price of oil and gas in the last year has inflated the value of its exports, which has helped Moscow offset revenue lost because of sanctions. Gazprom, the state-run Russian energy giant, posted a record profit in the first half of this year, even as shipments to Europe began to slump.

The International Monetary Fund has repeatedly revised its forecasts this year for the Russian economy, saying it would contract by less than the organization had anticipated. The I.M.F. said in October that it expected the Russian economy to shrink by 3.4 percent this year, a much smaller contraction than the 6 percent it forecast in July and the 8.5 percent it expected in April.

“Russia has withstood the economic sanctions better than anticipated, aided by high oil and gas prices and our dependence on fossil fuels,” said Gilberto Garcia-Vazquez, chief economist at Datawheel, the company that operates the Observatory of Economic Complexity.

The new bans on oil and petroleum products that European officials will introduce in coming months could represent a major loss for Russia. But the oil that leaves Russia on ocean-going vessels will probably find its way to new markets. Since the invasion of Ukraine, India and China have emerged as much bigger buyers of Russian crude.

In turn, the countries that used to sell more oil to India and China — like Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Angola — may sell more oil to Europe. That would lead to a global “reshuffling of the energy market,” Mr. Aleksashenko said, in which Russian oil is merely diverted to new markets rather than being cut out.

How much money Russia will ultimately generate from its oil sales remains unclear. As demand for its products elsewhere has fallen, Moscow is being forced to sell its oil to India and China at a discounted rate. Western countries are now trying to introduce a price cap that will further limit how much revenue Moscow can earn from each barrel of oil sold.

So far, higher energy prices have offset those effects. Prices for benchmark oils like Brent crude and Urals — heavily traded varieties of crude oil that serve as global reference prices for buyers and sellers of oil — have fallen in recent months. But because energy prices were elevated for much of this year, Russia actually received more money from oil and gas sales in dollar terms from March to July than it had in previous years, according to the International Energy Agency.

Russia has had to sell at a discount, but high oil prices blunted the effect.
At the same time, Russia found new buyersfor its oil as Europe bought less.
This resulted in Russia seeing steady oil profits, although that will likely change.

In the longer run, Russia’s prospects for selling its gas look dimmer. Unlike its oil exports, where the majority is carried by tankers at sea, much of Russia’s gas leaves the country through pipelines that take years to construct, making it hard for Moscow to shift to new markets.

By July, Germany had cut the amount of natural gas it imported from Russia by half and turned to importing more from Norway and the United States. In September, the primary pipelines that carry gas from Russia to Germany were damaged in explosions.

Russia is trying to find buyers elsewhere for its gas. Its exports to China have increased, but it has only one existing pipeline to China that can move a fraction of the volume of its pipelines to Europe. To move gas by ship, Russia would need to build new facilities to liquefy the gas, an expensive and time-consuming process.

Apart from energy, Russia also continues to be a leading exporter of other essential commodities, ranging from fertilizer and asbestos and nuclear reactors to wheat. International car makers still depend on Russia for palladium and rhodium to make catalytic converters. French nuclear plants rely on Russian uranium, while Belgium is still playing a key role in Russia’s diamond trade.

Russia’s ample trade, and the war chest it has generated, could start to dwindle in the next year as more sanctions bite.

Alexander Gabuev, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said that he expects the volume of Russian exports to drop significantly in the longer run as Europe gradually turns to new sources of energy, and as further sanctions, including a potential oil price cap, take effect.

Developments in the war, where Russia has recently suffered a series of setbacks, could also influence economic relations. This weekend, it withdrew from a global agreement that would have allowed grain to be exported from Ukrainian ports. If Russia were to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine, for example, that could galvanize more global sanctions that could cut Russia off from trade with Asia, Mr. Gabuev said.

“We’re going to see probably a different picture next year​​,” Mr. Gabuev said.

So what point are you making? The article doesn’t paint a rosy picture. While oil is fungible and easily transported, natural gas is not.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:07 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:26 am This has not been a good war for Russia’s Black Sea flagships.

Russia’s Black Sea flagship vessel, the Admiral Makarov, was damaged and possibly disabled during an audacious Ukrainian drone attack over the weekend on the Crimean port of Sevastopol, according to an examination of video footage.
Open-source investigators said the frigate was one of three Russian ships to have been hit on Saturday. A swarm of drones – some flying in the air, others skimming rapidly along the water – struck Russia’s navy at 4.20 am. Video from one of the sea drones shows the unmanned vehicle weaving between enemy boats.

Ukrainian officials said it was unclear if the Admiral Makarov was badly crippled, or had escaped with light damage. Unconfirmed reports said its hull was breached and radar systems smashed. Social media recorded loud explosions in the southern part of Sevastopol, in an area known as Riflemen’s Bay. A Russian navy school is located nearby.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... o-suggests

DocBarrister

Minimal damage to Russian ships but provided a pretext to reimpose the blockade, choking off grain exports.
Stupid move by Ukraine, eroding support for their cause from the many nations harmed by the grain shortages.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/30/eu-urge ... nsion.html

“Minimal damage” is the Russian version, but there are reports of much heavier damage.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... e1e74f92e6

DocBarrister

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:13 am Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch?

Providing balance to the triumphalist Ukrainian propaganda reported by our media that is posted here.
These minor Ukrainian victories produce damaging reactions.

A truck bomb temporarily takes out 1 of 3 spans on the Kerch bridge, Ukraine sends out snarky tweets, Russia takes out 1/4 of Ukraine's elec grid with winter approaching. Zelensky tells displaced Ukrainians not to come home yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... er-system/

This strike on a Russian ship violates the carefully negotiated agreement that lifted the blockade on grain shipments & the blockade is reinstated.
Grain shipments can still be interdicted at sea, outside the range of Ukrainian weapons. Ship owners & insurers are not going to risk sailing into a war at sea.

Are these minor Ukrainian tactical & propaganda victories worth the strategic costs or are they the rash decisions of an unreliable, over-equipped "ally"?

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:15 am

Like I said before, small wins for small people. I’ll stick with long term greedy in life.

Naturally, it follows that there are big losses for big losers.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:13 am Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch?

Providing balance to the triumphalist Ukrainian propaganda reported by our media that is posted here.
These minor Ukrainian victories produce damaging reactions.

A truck bomb temporarily takes out 1 of 3 spans on the Kerch bridge, Ukraine sends out snarky tweets, Russia takes out 1/4 of Ukraine's elec grid with winter approaching. Zelensky tells displaced Ukrainians not to come home yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... er-system/

This strike on a Russian ship violates the carefully negotiated agreement that lifted the blockade on grain shipments & the blockade is reinstated.
Grain shipments can still be interdicted at sea, outside the range of Ukrainian weapons. Ship owners & insurers are not going to risk sailing into a war at sea.

Are these minor Ukrainian tactical & propaganda victories worth the strategic costs or are they the rash decisions of an unreliable, over-equipped "ally"?

Who the fcuk are you to judge the actions of a country in an existential struggle? Did you learn this peculiar condescension at Boat U on my nickel? Or did you artive there with it fully formed from your vaunted mid-century educational experience?

The world has changed and passed you by as it does for all humans. Stop resisting and denying. Just makes you look ridiculous.

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:58 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:13 am Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch?

Providing balance to the triumphalist Ukrainian propaganda reported by our media that is posted here.
These minor Ukrainian victories produce damaging reactions.

A truck bomb temporarily takes out 1 of 3 spans on the Kerch bridge, Ukraine sends out snarky tweets, Russia takes out 1/4 of Ukraine's elec grid with winter approaching. Zelensky tells displaced Ukrainians not to come home yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... er-system/

This strike on a Russian ship violates the carefully negotiated agreement that lifted the blockade on grain shipments & the blockade is reinstated.
Grain shipments can still be interdicted at sea, outside the range of Ukrainian weapons. Ship owners & insurers are not going to risk sailing into a war at sea.

Are these minor Ukrainian tactical & propaganda victories worth the strategic costs or are they the rash decisions of an unreliable, over-equipped "ally"?

Who the fcuk are you to judge the actions of a country in an existential struggle? Did you learn this peculiar condescension at Boat U on my nickel? Or did you artive there with it fully formed from your vaunted mid-century educational experience?

The world has changed and passed you by as it does for all humans. Stop resisting and denying. Just makes you look ridiculous.

Agree.

Openly rooting for Russia in this completely unjustified invasion of Ukraine is truly beyond repugnant.

There are no “two sides” to this war. Russia is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine. Russia needs to withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea.

These efforts to falsely demonize Ukraine are absolutely disgusting and disgraceful.

DocBarrister

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:37 am

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:45 pm Same "reasoning" despite the protestations of Queen Gertrude (Old Salt).

Dispatch to afan from Queen Gertrude (he has now resorted to childish name calling)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e-war.html

​​How Russia Pays for War
By Lazaro Gamio and Ana SwansonOct. 30, 2022

Childish name calling? It was a Shakespearian reference from Hamlet....the lady doth protest too much. Queen Gertrude was "the lady".

That's not name calling. That's a witty description of your unwillingness to admit you've been wrong about Putin all these years....and that I've been right.

You're now trying to sell us that Putin's war machine is well funded.

Why are they losing then?

Because they can't afford the superior firepower that the US's GDP provides, that's why. It's literally why they are losing, and unable to get their objective. They don't have the money for the superior tech and quantities needed, OS. They can't keep up with US and NATO spending. And it all started with your man Trump.

What would you say if Biden hand to reinstitute a draft just a few months into an invasion, OS? Oh, you'd be telling us that Biden's flush with cash and resources for his war machine, right?

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:58 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:13 am Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch?

Providing balance to the triumphalist Ukrainian propaganda reported by our media that is posted here.
These minor Ukrainian victories produce damaging reactions.

A truck bomb temporarily takes out 1 of 3 spans on the Kerch bridge, Ukraine sends out snarky tweets, Russia takes out 1/4 of Ukraine's elec grid with winter approaching. Zelensky tells displaced Ukrainians not to come home yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... er-system/

This strike on a Russian ship violates the carefully negotiated agreement that lifted the blockade on grain shipments & the blockade is reinstated.
Grain shipments can still be interdicted at sea, outside the range of Ukrainian weapons. Ship owners & insurers are not going to risk sailing into a war at sea.

Are these minor Ukrainian tactical & propaganda victories worth the strategic costs or are they the rash decisions of an unreliable, over-equipped "ally"?

Who the fcuk are you to judge the actions of a country in an existential struggle? Did you learn this peculiar condescension at Boat U on my nickel? Or did you artive there with it fully formed from your vaunted mid-century educational experience?

The world has changed and passed you by as it does for all humans. Stop resisting and denying. Just makes you look ridiculous.

I'm a US taxpayer who is helping to pay for this US proxy war against Russia.

Who will be next to take flight through an upper floor window?

Oligarch renounces Russian citizenship over Ukraine war. Oleg Tinkov, who has previously spoken out against the conflict, says he won’t be associated with a ‘fascist country’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... SApp_Other

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:31 pm

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:58 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:13 am Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch?

Providing balance to the triumphalist Ukrainian propaganda reported by our media that is posted here.
These minor Ukrainian victories produce damaging reactions.

A truck bomb temporarily takes out 1 of 3 spans on the Kerch bridge, Ukraine sends out snarky tweets, Russia takes out 1/4 of Ukraine's elec grid with winter approaching. Zelensky tells displaced Ukrainians not to come home yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... er-system/

This strike on a Russian ship violates the carefully negotiated agreement that lifted the blockade on grain shipments & the blockade is reinstated.
Grain shipments can still be interdicted at sea, outside the range of Ukrainian weapons. Ship owners & insurers are not going to risk sailing into a war at sea.

Are these minor Ukrainian tactical & propaganda victories worth the strategic costs or are they the rash decisions of an unreliable, over-equipped "ally"?

Who the fcuk are you to judge the actions of a country in an existential struggle? Did you learn this peculiar condescension at Boat U on my nickel? Or did you artive there with it fully formed from your vaunted mid-century educational experience?

The world has changed and passed you by as it does for all humans. Stop resisting and denying. Just makes you look ridiculous.

Agree.

Openly rooting for Russia in this completely unjustified invasion of Ukraine is truly beyond repugnant.

There are no “two sides” to this war. Russia is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine. Russia needs to withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea.

These efforts to falsely demonize Ukraine are absolutely disgusting and disgraceful.

DocBarrister

Pointing out the results of your propaganda is not "rooting for Russia."
I'm rooting for the killing & destruction to stop asap.

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:12 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:37 am

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:45 pm Same "reasoning" despite the protestations of Queen Gertrude (Old Salt).

Dispatch to afan from Queen Gertrude (he has now resorted to childish name calling)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... e-war.html

​​How Russia Pays for War
By Lazaro Gamio and Ana SwansonOct. 30, 2022

Childish name calling? It was a Shakespearian reference from Hamlet....the lady doth protest too much. Queen Gertrude was "the lady".

That's not name calling. That's a witty description of your unwillingness to admit you've been wrong about Putin all these years....and that I've been right.

You're now trying to sell us that Putin's war machine is well funded.

Why are they losing then?

Because they can't afford the superior firepower that the US's GDP provides, that's why. It's literally why they are losing, and unable to get their objective. They don't have the money for the superior tech and quantities needed, OS. They can't keep up with US and NATO spending. And it all started with your man Trump.

What would you say if Biden hand to reinstitute a draft just a few months into an invasion, OS? Oh, you'd be telling us that Biden's flush with cash and resources for his war machine, right?

The Ukrainians are winning with the same weapons we've had since the first Gulf War in '91.
We're giving them TOW & Hawk missiles that have been in storage for so long we have to verify that they still work.
I'm pointing out that the blather you've peddled for years about Russia's GDP preventing them from waging war is bogus.
It did not deter Putin from starting this war, dragging us into it, pinning down our forces in EUrope & preventing our pivot to Asia to protect Taiwan.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:26 pm ... Russia's GDP preventing them from waging war is bogus.
It did not deter Putin from starting this war, dragging us into it, pinning down our forces in EUrope & preventing our pivot to Asia to protect Taiwan.

Wait a while. Putin did not drag the USA into any war. It is Biden's choice to stick his nose where it don't belong.

Russia invaded the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria (or Chechnya) in 1991, did the same with Georgia in 2008, and the same with Crimea in 2014. At no point did Putin or anyone else "drag" us into those conflicts which have been going on since time immemorial. As for the notion of "pinning down" our forces that's utterly hysterical and without any basis in logic or common sense whatsoever. As for Taiwan, what goes on there is none of our godd@mn business.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:31 pm

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:58 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:13 am Are you going to look to take every position and try to make the case that Russia is going everything great and eating the rest of the world’s lunch?

Providing balance to the triumphalist Ukrainian propaganda reported by our media that is posted here.
These minor Ukrainian victories produce damaging reactions.

A truck bomb temporarily takes out 1 of 3 spans on the Kerch bridge, Ukraine sends out snarky tweets, Russia takes out 1/4 of Ukraine's elec grid with winter approaching. Zelensky tells displaced Ukrainians not to come home yet.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... er-system/

This strike on a Russian ship violates the carefully negotiated agreement that lifted the blockade on grain shipments & the blockade is reinstated.
Grain shipments can still be interdicted at sea, outside the range of Ukrainian weapons. Ship owners & insurers are not going to risk sailing into a war at sea.

Are these minor Ukrainian tactical & propaganda victories worth the strategic costs or are they the rash decisions of an unreliable, over-equipped "ally"?

Who the fcuk are you to judge the actions of a country in an existential struggle? Did you learn this peculiar condescension at Boat U on my nickel? Or did you artive there with it fully formed from your vaunted mid-century educational experience?

The world has changed and passed you by as it does for all humans. Stop resisting and denying. Just makes you look ridiculous.

Agree.

Openly rooting for Russia in this completely unjustified invasion of Ukraine is truly beyond repugnant.

There are no “two sides” to this war. Russia is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine. Russia needs to withdraw from all of Ukraine, including Crimea.

These efforts to falsely demonize Ukraine are absolutely disgusting and disgraceful.

DocBarrister

Celebrate this, doc.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3713 ... ad-impact/

Pentagon: Russian strikes on Ukraine’s power grid, water supply had ‘widespread impact’

Russian missile strikes across Ukraine on Monday had “widespread impact” on the country’s power grid, sparking concerns in the West, according to Pentagon officials.

“Ukraine has been able to defend against some of these attacks, but damage to the electric grid and water supply are serious concerns directly harming the civilian population,” a senior U.S. defense official told reporters.

Russian missiles rained down on several Ukrainian cities early Monday, leaving about 80 percent of Kyiv without water and other large swaths of the population without electricity, according to the city’s mayor.

The missile barrage, which took place at about 7 a.m. local time, targeted “military and civilian infrastructure facilities with 55 aircraft guided missiles, 45 of which were shot down by our defenders,” the Ukrainian military’s General Staff later claimed.

And Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said 18 targets were hit in 10 regions, according to The Washington Post.

Another U.S. military official said they did not have specific information to provide as far as the extent of the damage but were “keeping a close eye” on it and still gathering information.

“In terms of the infrastructure, by virtue of the electrical grid being impacted, we are seeing impacts in terms of water supply systems, water treatment, things like that, which is affecting access to water among the civilian population,” they said.

The Russian strikes mark the most widespread missile barrage since a similar campaign earlier this month, when Moscow over several days pummeled Ukraine’s infrastructure and power grid. Ukrainian and Western officials have expressed concern over the country’s energy output as winter looms, with fears that a humanitarian crisis will soon be at hand as the days grow colder.

The most recent Kremlin strikes are in retaliation for what Moscow claims are weekend drone attacks that targeted Russian warships in the Crimean Peninsula, though Ukraine has not claimed responsibility for the attack.

The U.S. military official said the Biden administration is “tracking reports of an alleged attack against Russian navy vessels in Sevastopol,” a city on the Black Sea in the annexed territory of Crimea. They also confirmed there “were explosions there,” but would not say what caused the explosions and did not have a damage assessment to share.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:26 pm The Ukrainians are winning with the same weapons we've had since the first Gulf War in '91.
We're giving them TOW & Hawk missiles that have been in storage for so long we have to verify that they still work.
I'm pointing out that the blather you've peddled for years about Russia's GDP preventing them from waging war is bogus.

You think you're gonna get away with moving the goalposts, and trying to tell me I was wrong with the new goalposts?

Nice try.

Mexico can 'wage war". Canada, too. heck, look at little ol' Syria...."wagin' war".

That's not what I said. What I said, as you very well know, is that you need GDP for the adventurism and delusions of grandeur Putin has. That Russia isn't the Soviet Union, and you need money that Putin doesn't have to make up for the fact that Putin has a small weenie and his bored.

And I was right. Putin is now SO f'ed that he had to install a freaking draft to "invade" a country that you told us could barely defend itself. Yet the world is peeing on Putin, and you're here telling us "no, that's just rain".

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:26 pm It did not deter Putin from starting this war, dragging us into it, pinning down our forces in EUrope & preventing our pivot to Asia to protect Taiwan.

So using your Republican math, we could afford to be in Afghanistan for 20 years, with no problem.

'And yet you're here (snicker) trying to convince yourself that the US Military now can't (this is great) afford to pivot to Asia "because" we've given Ukraine a few billion in just a few months, and parked the number soldiers that were already in Afghanistan...along Russia's front....

That's what you're selling today, is it?

Yeah. Not buying it. Sorry. Doubly so since you yourself have said we're not on the hook for Taiwan....but you can't help but move these goalposts around, so I'm sure tomorrow's episode of "Old Salt thinks Biden is doing it wrong" will bring a new location for said goalposts.

Anything else?