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Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:06 pm
by calourie
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gen-mattis-s ... 32160.html
Here's some heavyweight incoming headed Trump and Esper's way. Just another brain dead TDSer as far as PB is concerned. How the Trump apologists continue to support this shallow self-consumed man is an enigma and an anathema to me, but hey, whatever floats your boat, as they say.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 pm
by holmes435
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:51 pm
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:31 pm
Media: "Police used tear gas cannisters to disperse crowds"
Police: "Nah, we were using smoke canisters (smoke is an irritant) and pepper balls (tear gas in a paintball)"
Pepper balls use the same irritant as pepper spray, not tear gas. Much less harsh & does not spread as widely.
Pepper spray is a tear gas. There are multiple types of tear gas and you may be thinking of another version. Pepper spray has even been deadly in some rare occasions.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 pm
by holmes435
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:51 pm
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:31 pm
Media: "Police used tear gas cannisters to disperse crowds"
Police: "Nah, we were using smoke canisters (smoke is an irritant) and pepper balls (tear gas in a paintball)"
Pepper balls use the same irritant as pepper spray, not tear gas. Much less harsh & does not spread as widely.
Pepper spray is a tear gas. There are multiple types of tear gas and you may be thinking of another version. Pepper spray has even been deadly in some rare occasions.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:29 pm
by calourie
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:51 pm
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:31 pm
Media: "Police used tear gas cannisters to disperse crowds"
Police: "Nah, we were using smoke canisters (smoke is an irritant) and pepper balls (tear gas in a paintball)"
Pepper balls use the same irritant as pepper spray, not tear gas. Much less harsh & does not spread as widely.
Pepper spray is a tear gas. There are multiple types of tear gas and you may be thinking of another version. Pepper spray has even been deadly in some rare occasions.
Holmes, read the the arrticle I posted above. The tear gas issue just got shoved into the back seat
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:45 pm
by njbill
Whether the Park Police used tear gas and rubber bullets (as some reports say) or pepper balls and smoke grenades (as the Park Police and even the Trump administration seem to acknowledge), it’s undisputed that at least some type of aggressive, intimidating, and harmful (even if only temporary) chemical was used to create a path for Trump’s photo op.
It seems to say to me that saying we didn’t use tear gas, we used pepper balls and smoke grenades is like saying we didn’t hit them over the head with metal baseball bats. We used metal softball bats.
Re: Racism in America- Riots Explode Nationwide with Help From Instigators
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:00 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:45 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:07 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:51 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:38 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:30 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:39 pmc) some form of martial law as we go into election season.
Trump is giving the Governors every opportunity to prevent this. Most seem to understand this & are taking the hint.
Which ones do you think are doing
anything differently than what they would have done without all the bluster and haranguing, the "hint" as you call it?
It's not as if they weren't already accessing Guard as support. It's not as if any of them are chill with arson and looting.
Seems to me that the ones having the most success in keeping things calm (er) have been those who have embraced the validity of the protests and the underlying roots of the anger. Police chiefs marching with protestors, etc.
You want to see this blow up? Call out the dogs and bull horns, Bull Connor style.
Roll out the tanks and see this country go completely up in flames.
The increase in NG presence in several staes after Trump's blasting Governors on the conference call is not a coincidence.
Trump gave the Governors an ultimatum -- use your law enforcement & National Guard resources to maintain order & protect property, or I'll invoke the Insurrection Act & send in the active duty military to do it.
Trump's is using DC (where he has the additional authority a state Governor holds) as a demonstration project. He's assertively using all Fed law enforcement agencies & the DC NG, while staging active duty Army MP units at Andrews & Ft Belvoir, for contingencies, ...& it's working in DC.
nonsense, they had already made these NG moves and would continue to do so without any pressure from the jerk who is with the 30% who are against the protestors protesting...
If Trump actually had pulled the Insurrection Act card all hell would have broken loose and there would have been a showdown with the military as well. Or at least you'd hope so, right? Esper already said near as much, and that's the political appointee...start working down that chain of command...
Or are you looking for that big military muscular force against American citizens?
Are you denying that there was an increase in the deployments of NG troops after Trump berated the Governor's on Mon's video conf to use the NG & threatened to send in active duty military if they did not ?
I'm looking for the Governors & Mayors to do their jobs & use their NG to the fullest extent to maintain order & protect property.
If they do, active duty military will not be needed.
No, I'm asking exactly which ones decided to call in any or more NG because of what Trump said.
I think zero, but maybe you can point to a Governor who says Trump's threat changed his decision making...
I don't think any of them were intimidated by Trump's threat nor inspired by it.
BTW, what do you think of Gen. Mattis' statement?
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:02 pm
by a fan
Nigel wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:04 pm
The media chose political messaging over factual reporting. And it’s not nitpicking to demand precision on these things from an industry that claims to report accurately. Each falsehood by the media was used in a direction that was hostile to those Americans who don’t share the dominant media position that America is irredeemably evil.
For people who are adamant that the violent riot portion of protests be downplayed or ignored, even pepper balls are an egregious violation. But for those who see how millions of mistruths pile upon each other to create false narratives that always go in the same political direction, facts still matter and are worth fighting for.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/03/af ... identical/
Isn't it simply
a shade more likely that a combination of smoke canisters going off, and the lung irritation that comes with sucking in, you know, smoke... led to the confusion about whether or not tear gas was used? Nope. Only possible explanation here is that It's totally a media conspiracy.
Did this lady lift one finger to actually----oh, I don't know------investigate what actually happened? Now why the heck would she do that, right? When she can instead, pretend that a government spokesperson telling us that neither tear gas nor rubber bullets magically counts as a "fact".
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
by ToastDunk
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:22 pm
by RedFromMI
I’m a cop. I won’t fight a ‘war’ on crime the way I fought the war on terror.
The failed strategy I participated in for years as a CIA officer is not how to police people I consider my neighbors. It’s not how to police at all.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... ts-wrapper
Interesting guest op-ed about how we have militarized the police and how he is trying to do it differently. Worth a read.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:29 pm
by old salt
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:51 pm
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:31 pm
Media: "Police used tear gas cannisters to disperse crowds"
Police: "Nah, we were using smoke canisters (smoke is an irritant) and pepper balls (tear gas in a paintball)"
Pepper balls use the same irritant as pepper spray, not tear gas. Much less harsh & does not spread as widely.
Pepper spray is a tear gas. There are multiple types of tear gas and you may be thinking of another version. Pepper spray has even been deadly in some rare occasions.
Do the pepper balls contain CS gas ? If not, they're not tear gas. This is like NPR calling Humvees & other wheeled vehicles "tanks" & claiming they're tearing up DC streets, or saying that Army Guard utility helicopters can only perform medevac missions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas
The compound 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (also called o-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile; chemical formula: C10H5ClN2), a cyanocarbon, is the defining component of tear gas commonly referred to as CS gas, which is used as a riot control agent
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:37 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
https://www.aftermath.com/content/tear- ... per-spray/
More like equating Clinton getting a hummer from Lewinsky versus sexual intercourse.....in the end he had sex with her.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:41 pm
by RedFromMI
Prosecutors: 3 men plotted to terrorize Vegas protests
https://apnews.com/6223153093f08fa910c4 ... ce=Twitter
Three Nevada men with ties to a loose movement of right-wing extremists advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government have been arrested on terrorism-related charges in what authorities say was a conspiracy to spark violence during recent protests in Las Vegas.
Federal prosecutors say the three white men with U.S. military experience are accused of conspiring to carry out a plan that began in April in conjunction with protests to reopen businesses closed because of the coronavirus.
More recently, they sought to capitalize on protests over the death of George Floyd, a black man who died in Minneapolis after a white officer pressed his knee into his neck for several minutes even after he stopped moving and pleading for air, prosecutors said.
The three men were arrested Saturday on the way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas after filling gas cans at a parking lot and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles, according to a copy of the criminal complaint obtained by The Associated Press.
“People have a right to peacefully protest. These men are agitators and instigators. Their point was to hijack the protests into violence,” Nicholas Trutanich, U.S. attorney in Nevada, told AP. He referred to what he called “real and legitimate outrage” over Floyd’s death.
The complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas on Wednesday said they self-identified as part of the “boogaloo” movement, which U.S. prosecutors said in the document is “a term used by extremists to signify coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”
Stephen T. Parshall, 35, Andrew T. Lynam Jr., 23, and William L. Loomis, 40, were being held on $1 million bond each in the Clark County jail Wednesday, according to court records. Lynam is from suburban Henderson and the others are from Las Vegas.
The complaint said Lynam is an Army reservist, with Parshall formerly enlisted in the Navy and Loomis formerly enlisted in the Air Force.
Each currently faces two federal charges — conspiracy to damage and destroy by fire and explosive, and possession of unregistered firearms. In state court, they’ve been accused of felony conspiracy, terrorism and explosives possession. Trutanich said they’ll be prosecuted in both jurisdictions.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm
by old salt
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:48 pm
by seacoaster
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Willfully missing the point.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:50 pm
by youthathletics
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:48 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Willfully missing the point.
How so? I thought CV-19 was serious as was social distancing.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:50 pm
by calourie
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Spare me the 1st Amendment tears for this, how many of our rights have been usurped the past 2.5 mos ?
In addition to the harm these peaceful protests are doing to public safety & property damage, they're a needless public health risk that threatens to undo all that we've been sacrificing for the past 4 mos.
Hi OS. Hope you get a chance to read James Mattis' scathing criticism of Trump and his behavior not only surrounding the current protests and rioting, but actually indicting Trump's entire tenure in office. I referenced an article outlining it in my post at the top of this page. Might have some influence on your thinking about what is going on. Perhaps not. In any regard I hope you are well.
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:51 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Not one State enforced their Covid laws against demonstrators who were demonstrating against Covid shutdowns, and clearly violated social distancing guidelines. Not one. R or D governor.
They let them have their say. Smart move, if you ask me.
I can't remember---did you complain about those protesters when they violated distancing laws, too?
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 pm
by kramerica.inc
All around good guy, Drew Brees Is now supposedly a jerk, for standing by the comments he made mos. ago about NFL protesters disrespecting the flag.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.c ... atform=amp
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 pm
by holmes435
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:29 pm
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:23 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:51 pm
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:31 pm
Media: "Police used tear gas cannisters to disperse crowds"
Police: "Nah, we were using smoke canisters (smoke is an irritant) and pepper balls (tear gas in a paintball)"
Pepper balls use the same irritant as pepper spray, not tear gas. Much less harsh & does not spread as widely.
Pepper spray is a tear gas. There are multiple types of tear gas and you may be thinking of another version. Pepper spray has even been deadly in some rare occasions.
Do the pepper balls contain CS gas ? If not, they're not tear gas. This is like NPR calling Humvees & other wheeled vehicles "tanks" & claiming they're tearing up DC streets, or saying that Army Guard utility helicopters can only perform medevac missions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas
The compound 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (also called o-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile; chemical formula: C10H5ClN2), a cyanocarbon, is the defining component of tear gas commonly referred to as CS gas, which is used as a riot control agent
You're just thinking of another kind of tear gas. If you're going by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas
"Tear gas, formally known as a lachrymator agent or lachrymator (from the Latin lacrima, meaning "tear"), sometimes colloquially known as mace [...] Common lachrymators include
pepper spray (OC gas), PAVA spray (nonivamide), CS gas [... and a few others]"
Re: Racism in America- Week 2 of Riots
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 pm
by youthathletics
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:42 pm
ToastDunk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:17 pm
Forget the f’ing tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, flash bangs, et all. The President of the United States used police/military force to disrupt US citizens from expressing their 1st Amendment rights to clear a path for a photo op. Unacceptable. I don’t imagine even Old Salt will defend these actions initiated by the President. It’s un-American.
Either lift all covid related restrictions on public gatherings & social distancing or apply them to these " peaceful protests" which mask rioting, looting, arson & anarchy.
Not one State enforced their Covid laws against demonstrators who were demonstrating against Covid shutdowns, and clearly violated social distancing guidelines. Not one. R or D governor.
They let them have their say. Smart move, if you ask me.
I can't remember---did you complain about those protesters when they violated distancing laws, too?
Isn’t opening your business protesting against a right?