LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:04 am OS and I don't agree on much but the criticism here is IMHO way over the top reading into motives not apparently there. Assuming the worst about some people here is not an ideal way to carry on a rational discussion.

That said, some folks have a right to be concerned about rhetoric especially given this front page news from yesterday - This photo is from an overpass on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles featuring Nazi salutes and support for Kanye West's overt antisemitic tweets last week that got him banned from the platform.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/us/los-a ... index.html



We'd all benefit following the advice of the Dalai Lama

"As soon as I wake every morning, I remind myself that all human beings are the same as me—we all want to be happy. I resolve to use my life to ensure that other beings are happy. It’s compassion that brings about peace of mind, not anger and hatred."

“Patriots” like these jokes once again show just how much they really love their country by not even knowing how to fly the flag when its header is horizontal.

Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:04 am OS and I don't agree on much but the criticism here is IMHO way over the top reading into motives not apparently there. Assuming the worst about some people here is not an ideal way to carry on a rational discussion.

That said, some folks have a right to be concerned about rhetoric especially given this front page news from yesterday - This photo is from an overpass on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles featuring Nazi salutes and support for Kanye West's overt antisemitic tweets last week that got him banned from the platform.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/us/los-a ... index.html



We'd all benefit following the advice of the Dalai Lama

"As soon as I wake every morning, I remind myself that all human beings are the same as me—we all want to be happy. I resolve to use my life to ensure that other beings are happy. It’s compassion that brings about peace of mind, not anger and hatred."

From years of pretending to throw items up and then whine about it not being his words and overuse of plausible deniability it’s difficult for me to tell anymore. I didn’t pay any attention to it until after the accusation the strong absolute rejection as if he’s never heard this before and was completely unaware. To boot he later said his “fear” of what they were doing. So what does “fear” mean there? And why “fear” vs concern or issue?

Ok, if that’s the case after all this time and numerous discussions observed here then I have to default back to:

Domain knowledge DOES NOT EQUAL thoughtfulness or intelligence.

Not exactly binary but when you get to a point over time with repeated incidences it’s entirely logical to get to this point I’m proposing.

Communication should involve assuming good intentions of the other party. But when a clear pattern of opaque communication and constant denials of things explicitly posted at some point the responsibility is on the person initiating those communications don’t you think? We have to be aware of our audience when we communicate or we don’t have the credible ability to defend our communications. The responsibility goes both ways. Otherwise why wouldn’t everyone communicate like Fatty as it would be highly beneficial to do so.

(It isn’t hard unless your ego is massive to say “yeah poor choice of words, wasn’t my intention at all when written what I meant was”

Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:04 am OS and I don't agree on much but the criticism here is IMHO way over the top reading into motives not apparently there. Assuming the worst about people is not an ideal way to carry on a rational discussion

Way over the top is actually understating yet commonplace/the norm when it comes to salty.
Of the half dozen or so who make up this echo chamber, five of them don't like him. Probably
more accurate to say don't like his persona as I'm bettin' they would like him were they to meet
him at the Navy–Marine Corps Memorial Stadium to watch a lacrosse game. There is a no holds barred,
gang up and pile on, mentality here when it comes to salty. He's a big boy though, he doesn't go
run and hide when the heat comes.
I've seen many times when the anachronism was the go to guy when schidt goes down in the world
over the years. salty (he doesn't use caps in his name, don't know why you guys do) aint out of time
or place then, quite the opposite and all are all ears. Have seen some mighty impressive stuff from
him, he aint outta touch by a long shot. JFTR, I don't agree with everything salty says or where he
stands on everything either.

FTR -- Again. I named Nuland, Applebaum & Soros because they were, to me, 3 of the most influential people in bringing us to the present situation in Ukraine. At that time, I did not even know that 2 of them were Jewish or had Ukrainian or Belarusian heritage. I did not consider religion a factor.
I made no mention of their religion. I only went into the Jewish roots of the neocon movement when MDLF76 responded with his hysterical, tasteless, over-the-top rant on anti-semitism, to give credit to who actually started the neocon movement, brought it to prominence, & continue to have influence into the second generation.

IMHO -- the 3 I named wield great influence of future events in Ukraine, & there are reasons to be concerned about future destabilizing events in Belarus & Russia.

SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:29 am “Patriots” like these jokes once again show just how much they really love their country by not even knowing how to fly the flag when its header is horizontal.

Noticed that as well, gotta wonder if they did that on purpose being the fine patriots and all that they are.

Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:04 am OS and I don't agree on much but the criticism here is IMHO way over the top reading into motives not apparently there. Assuming the worst about some people here is not an ideal way to carry on a rational discussion.

That said, some folks have a right to be concerned about rhetoric especially given this front page news from yesterday - This photo is from an overpass on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles featuring Nazi salutes and support for Kanye West's overt antisemitic tweets last week that got him banned from the platform.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/us/los-a ... index.html



We'd all benefit following the advice of the Dalai Lama

"As soon as I wake every morning, I remind myself that all human beings are the same as me—we all want to be happy. I resolve to use my life to ensure that other beings are happy. It’s compassion that brings about peace of mind, not anger and hatred."

Just to be clear, I didn't assume the motive, I pointed out the trope being used and asked whether it was unconscious or conscious...I expected an 'oops, that's not what I meant', sorry for any offense'

Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

And upon repeated invitations to just apologize and move on, he tripled and quadrupled down.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:57 am FTR -- Again. I named Nuland, Applebaum & Soros because they were, to me, 3 of the most influential people in bringing us to the present situation in Ukraine. At that time, I did not even know that 2 of them were Jewish or had Ukrainian or Belarusian heritage. I did not consider religion a factor.
I made no mention of their religion. I only went into the Jewish roots of the neocon movement when MDLF76 responded with his hysterical, tasteless, over-the-top rant on anti-semitism, to give credit to who actually started the neocon movement, brought it to prominence, & continue to have influence into the second generation.

IMHO -- the 3 I named wield great influence of future events in Ukraine, & there are reasons to be concerned about future destabilizing events in Belarus & Russia.

FTR, you did not include Paul Bremer.
You only mentioned Jewish people, controlling the course of history.

I invited you to recognize the trope, and the simple answer, of 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense'.

But you tripled and quadrupled down.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:57 am FTR -- Again. I named Nuland, Applebaum & Soros because they were, to me, the most influential neocons in bringing us to the present situation in Ukraine. At that time, I did not even know that 2 of them were Jewish or had Ukrainian or Belarusian heritage. I did not consider religion a factor.
I made no mention of their religion. I only went into the Jewish roots of the neocon movement when MDLF76 responded with his hysterical, tasteless, over-the-top rant on anti-semitism, to give credit to who actually started the neocon movement, brought it to prominence, & continue to have influence into the second generation.

IMHO -- the 3 I named wield great influence of future events in Ukraine, & there are reasons to be concerned about future destabilizing events in Belarus & Russia.

The last part was all I needed personally. Not that you care but it’s as simple as that. The way it was written before didn’t come across as thoughtful. I do it all the time and if i get caught so be it.

The other stuff I wouldn’t die on the hill over. But it is a group that’s had it not so great for a while. Modicum of sensitivity isn’t a bug of humans it’s a feature. See the pic dropped in there recently. They’re under attack as a culture and religion constantly here domestically and globally. We literally have a sitting congresswoman talking about Jewish space lasers and Soros so it’s not unreasonable to be careful invoking certain folks. Imagine if it’s had been “sharpton, jesse jackson and Bobby Seal have plans for Arkansas”…

DMac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:53 am

Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:04 am OS and I don't agree on much but the criticism here is IMHO way over the top reading into motives not apparently there. Assuming the worst about people is not an ideal way to carry on a rational discussion

Way over the top is actually understating yet commonplace/the norm when it comes to salty.
Of the half dozen or so who make up this echo chamber, five of them don't like him. Probably
more accurate to say don't like his persona as I'm bettin' they would like him were they to meet
him at the Navy–Marine Corps Memorial Stadium to watch a lacrosse game. There is a no holds barred,
gang up and pile on, mentality here when it comes to salty. He's a big boy though, he doesn't go
run and hide when the heat comes.
I've seen many times when the anachronism was the go to guy when schidt goes down in the world
over the years. salty (he doesn't use caps in his name, don't know why you guys do) aint out of time
or place then, quite the opposite and all are all ears. Have seen some mighty impressive stuff from
him, he aint outta touch by a long shot. JFTR, I don't agree with everything salty says or where he
stands on everything either.

DMac, I have numerous times stated my view that Salty adds considerably to the discourse, bringing experiences and expertise, and attention to a whole range of topics, that add significant value to the conversation. And yes, he's a 'big boy'...but if there's a pile on when he says something offensive, it's simply because it's actually offensive to many. I don't see not backing down when you're wrong, when you''ve made an error, when you've given offense, to be a virtue. I've had to do so numerous times over the years. Perfection isn't what I'd expect in anyone, including myself.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

DMac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:57 am

SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:29 am “Patriots” like these jokes once again show just how much they really love their country by not even knowing how to fly the flag when its header is horizontal.

Noticed that as well, gotta wonder if they did that on purpose being the fine patriots and all that they are.

Dmac to your “get out of your hood and see the world story”, was up with my sons team in the deep suburbs/exurbs outside Atl yesterday. An area that would like to string up Soros and his people. It was so obvious they hadn’t seen many people that didn’t look like them. 4/5 team and we’ve got two third graders while in a suburb league as the only in town team. One third grader, Francisco, is catching all sorts of words from parents. I literally had two of my teams parents keeping an eye on me because they knew my third stare at those parents was their last warning before I straight Stephen Jackson’ed them off the benches. That kid gets is the smallest one Ive seen all year get his a** beat and every team we’ve played has pulled down at least 3, 12yr olds and he gets up and gets right into kids 18” taller playing lacrosse the way the Iroquois did. I watched him on hands and knees getting hacked over a gb and come out of the scrum through the ground with the ball in his stick.

A perfect illustration of what own group is and another is.

*not kidding my wife had three dads line up at the gate closest to field by me and tell me they had it and stay focused on the game cause they all knew..and frankly only didn’t want me getting in trouble, wouldn’t minded how they would’ve been dealt with if I had no consequence coming.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

Leaving out Bremer...and Will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.

If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:09 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:57 am FTR -- Again. I named Nuland, Applebaum & Soros because they were, to me, the most influential neocons in bringing us to the present situation in Ukraine. At that time, I did not even know that 2 of them were Jewish or had Ukrainian or Belarusian heritage. I did not consider religion a factor.
I made no mention of their religion. I only went into the Jewish roots of the neocon movement when MDLF76 responded with his hysterical, tasteless, over-the-top rant on anti-semitism, to give credit to who actually started the neocon movement, brought it to prominence, & continue to have influence into the second generation.

IMHO -- the 3 I named wield great influence of future events in Ukraine, & there are reasons to be concerned about future destabilizing events in Belarus & Russia.

The last part was all I needed personally. Not that you care but it’s as simple as that. The way it was written before didn’t come across as thoughtful. I do it all the time and if i get caught so be it.

The other stuff I wouldn’t die on the hill over. But it is a group that’s had it not so great for a while. Modicum of sensitivity isn’t a bug of humans it’s a feature. See the pic dropped in there recently. They’re under attack as a culture and religion constantly here domestically and globally. We literally have a sitting congresswoman talking about Jewish space lasers and Soros so it’s not unreasonable to be careful invoking certain folks. Imagine if it’s had been “sharpton, jesse jackson and Bobby Seal have plans for Arkansas”…

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who appreciates more than me what Americans of Jewish heritage bring to our nation & our culture.
I'm proud that they have achieved so much success & contributed so much to our culture. Not that it's the same thing -- but I'm also a great admirer & supporter of the nation of Israel. That is why I find MDLF76's accusations so offensive & refuse to back down.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:25 am

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:09 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:57 am FTR -- Again. I named Nuland, Applebaum & Soros because they were, to me, the most influential neocons in bringing us to the present situation in Ukraine. At that time, I did not even know that 2 of them were Jewish or had Ukrainian or Belarusian heritage. I did not consider religion a factor.
I made no mention of their religion. I only went into the Jewish roots of the neocon movement when MDLF76 responded with his hysterical, tasteless, over-the-top rant on anti-semitism, to give credit to who actually started the neocon movement, brought it to prominence, & continue to have influence into the second generation.

IMHO -- the 3 I named wield great influence of future events in Ukraine, & there are reasons to be concerned about future destabilizing events in Belarus & Russia.

The last part was all I needed personally. Not that you care but it’s as simple as that. The way it was written before didn’t come across as thoughtful. I do it all the time and if i get caught so be it.

The other stuff I wouldn’t die on the hill over. But it is a group that’s had it not so great for a while. Modicum of sensitivity isn’t a bug of humans it’s a feature. See the pic dropped in there recently. They’re under attack as a culture and religion constantly here domestically and globally. We literally have a sitting congresswoman talking about Jewish space lasers and Soros so it’s not unreasonable to be careful invoking certain folks. Imagine if it’s had been “sharpton, jesse jackson and Bobby Seal have plans for Arkansas”…

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who appreciates more than me what Americans of Jewish heritage bring to our nation & our culture.
I'm proud that they have achieved so much success & contributed so much to our culture. Not that it's the same thing -- but I'm also a great admirer & supporter of the nation of Israel. That is why I find MDLF76's accusations so offensive & refuse to back down.

Interesting.
But it should have been super easy to say, then, 'oops, I understand the trope, I didn't intend it, sorry for any offense.'

Not claim you never heard any of this before.
I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't mean that such tropes shouldn't be identified and addressed...often these things are unconscious repetitions of those who have utilized them for effect one may not intend oneself.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

Leaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.

If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.

How far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.

And then the nonsense about my use of the term White Christian Nationalists being bigotry against whites Christians.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

Leaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.

If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.

How far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.

It will include those names...and others.
Importantly, others...the trope was the 'dinner parties controlling the course of history'

The movement started way before this group you mention became prominent.

Again, it'd have been super easy to say, 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense, I'll try to avoid it in the future"...and go back to your critique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:36 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

Leaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.

If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.

How far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.

It will include those names...and others.
Importantly, others...the trope was the 'dinner parties controlling the course of history'

The movement started way before this group you mention became prominent.

Again, it'd have been super easy to say, 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense, I'll try to avoid it in the future"...and go pack to your critique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

FTR -- I did mention Kirkpatrick (& Bill Bennet) as token gentiles, Moynihan objected to being called a neoconservative.
The Kristol, Podhoretz, & Kagan dinner parties in NYC were legendary, not unlike Kay Graham's, Ben Bradley's & Sally Quinn's in DC.
It's not a trope to acknowledge the part they have played in our political history.
Who is most often referred to as the Godfather of NeoConservatism ?
Who published Commentary then The Weekly Standard ?

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:45 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:36 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

Leaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.

If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.

How far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.

It will include those names...and others.
Importantly, others...the trope was the 'dinner parties controlling the course of history'

The movement started way before this group you mention became prominent.

Again, it'd have been super easy to say, 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense, I'll try to avoid it in the future"...and go pack to your critique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

FTR -- I did mention Kirkpatrick (& Bill Bennet) as token gentiles, Moynihan objected to being called a neoconservative.
The Kristol, Podhoretz, & Kagan dinner parties in NYC were legendary, not unlike Kay Graham's, Ben Bradley's & Sally Quinn's in DC.
It's not a trope to acknowledge the part they have played in our political history.

Again, the trope exists.
It's well-known.
If you stumbled into it, unintentionally, as you have repeatedly said now, it should have been easy to simply say, 'oops, I recognize the trope, not my intent, sorry to give offense, I'll try not to offend again'...and then explain what you really meant, including not simply "dinner parties" but "dinner parties and "controlling the course of history"...

Trope re Jews and their control.

Aligns with trope about an international cabal of such.

Throughline with other tropes about control, and blood libel...

"token gentiles"???

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:50 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:45 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:36 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:32 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:18 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:06 am Instead he doubled down and added more Jewish folks to his list, conveniently leaving out Paul Bremer who was at the core of the neocon movement as well. There were lots of people who have no Jewish heritage who were part of that ideological, intellectual 'group'.

FTR -- again. I was pointing out the self-proclaimed founders of the Neo-Conservative movement, not the entire body of people who have come to share many of their principles. There are many more prominent Americans, who happen to be Jewish, who advocate neocon positions. To do a roll call is silly.

Leaving out Bremer...and will..Kirkpatrick...even Moynihan, all of whom were described as neoconservatives.
With the dinner parties controlling the course of history...
trope.

If not intended, incredibly easy to say, 'oops, my mistake, not intended, sorry for any offense'...and go back to critiquing the policy positions.

How far do you want to take this ? Add McCain, the Bushes, Cheney's, Wolofowitz, Pearle, Libby... you could fill a stadium.
Again -- I was referring to the founders & how they themselves described the genisis of their movement.
There's nothing dark or sinister there. It's not a trope. It's a key part of our modern political history.
Read any scholarship about the birth of the Neo Conservative movement & it will align with my description & include the names of the founders who I referenced.

It will include those names...and others.
Importantly, others...the trope was the 'dinner parties controlling the course of history'

The movement started way before this group you mention became prominent.

Again, it'd have been super easy to say, 'oops, not my intent, sorry for any offense, I'll try to avoid it in the future"...and go pack to your critique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

FTR -- I did mention Kirkpatrick (& Bill Bennet) as token gentiles, Moynihan objected to being called a neoconservative.
The Kristol, Podhoretz, & Kagan dinner parties in NYC were legendary, not unlike Kay Graham's, Ben Bradley's & Sally Quinn's in DC.
It's not a trope to acknowledge the part they have played in our political history.

Again, the trope exists.
It's well-known.
If you stumbled into it, unintentionally, as you have repeatedly said now, it should have been easy to simply say, 'oops, I recognize the trope, not my intent, sorry to give offense, I'll try not to offend again'...and then explain what you really meant, including not simply "dinner parties" but "dinner parties and "controlling the course of history"...

Trope re Jews and their control.

Aligns with trope about an international cabal of such.

Throughline with other tropes about control, and blood libel...

Who did I offend, other than you ?