Gee, I seem to remember someone trying to explain this concept years ago. And then again when the Trump Tax Cuts were announced.
TrumpNation wants to pay my business taxes? Umm......okay. If you say so. Just remember that I gave you the score...remember, you are telling Congress that this is what you want. Don't blame them. You are doing this to yourselves.....
Have a look at the attached chart. Tells you all you need to know. See the "glory years" of the 1950's? Corporations paid for that. Now most of you want Corporations to get a free ride....which means YOU have to pay their share.
For the life of me, I have no clue why you folks want to pay Jeff Bezo's taxes for him. But okay. As you wish.
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:05 pm
Gee, I seem to remember someone trying to explain this concept years ago. And then again when the Trump Tax Cuts were announced.
TrumpNation wants to pay my business taxes? Umm......okay. If you say so. Just remember that I gave you the score...remember, you are telling Congress that this is what you want. Don't blame them. You are doing this to yourselves.....
Have a look at the attached chart. Tells you all you need to know. See the "glory years" of the 1950's? Corporations paid for that. Now most of you want Corporations to get a free ride....which means YOU have to pay their share.
For the life of me, I have no clue why you folks want to pay Jeff Bezo's taxes for him. But okay. As you wish.
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:05 pm
Gee, I seem to remember someone trying to explain this concept years ago. And then again when the Trump Tax Cuts were announced.
TrumpNation wants to pay my business taxes? Umm......okay. If you say so. Just remember that I gave you the score...remember, you are telling Congress that this is what you want. Don't blame them. You are doing this to yourselves.....
Have a look at the attached chart. Tells you all you need to know. See the "glory years" of the 1950's? Corporations paid for that. Now most of you want Corporations to get a free ride....which means YOU have to pay their share.
For the life of me, I have no clue why you folks want to pay Jeff Bezo's taxes for him. But okay. As you wish.
I do not claim to know the answers afan, and certainly will not argue your stance. Consider something that may have an impact.....
We all agree the workforce has been larger and larger since around 2010 (more tax payers) but as we all also know tech/virtual businesses have grown largely in the past two decades that make or sell Zero products, just move data, sell marketing data etc. Also factor in those top US money producing companies that essentially own nothing. AirBnB, Uber, Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp, Alibaba, Netflix, etc.
By comparison, in the 50’s everything was flipped, almost every business created, sold, and services widgets. That’s primarily now done outside the continental US.
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:05 pm
Gee, I seem to remember someone trying to explain this concept years ago. And then again when the Trump Tax Cuts were announced.
TrumpNation wants to pay my business taxes? Umm......okay. If you say so. Just remember that I gave you the score...remember, you are telling Congress that this is what you want. Don't blame them. You are doing this to yourselves.....
Have a look at the attached chart. Tells you all you need to know. See the "glory years" of the 1950's? Corporations paid for that. Now most of you want Corporations to get a free ride....which means YOU have to pay their share.
For the life of me, I have no clue why you folks want to pay Jeff Bezo's taxes for him. But okay. As you wish.
I do not claim to know the answers afan, and certainly will not argue your stance. Consider something that may have an impact.....
We all agree the workforce has been larger and larger since around 2010 (more tax payers) but as we all also know tech/virtual businesses have grown largely in the past two decades that make or sell Zero products, just move data, sell marketing data etc. Also factor in those top US money producing companies that essentially own nothing. AirBnB, Uber, Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp, Alibaba, Netflix, etc.
By comparison, in the 50’s everything was flipped, almost every business created, sold, and services widgets. That’s primarily now done outside the continental US.
Those companies that own nothing other than IP, make a lot of money.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:59 pm
by a fan
These are public companies that turn a profit. Tax them.
Or, use my preferred method: tax revenues, not profits. Then everyone pays in, and well run companies aren't punished for turning a profit.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:12 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:59 pm
These are public companies that turn a profit. Tax them.
Or, use my preferred method: tax revenues, not profits. Then everyone pays in, and well run companies aren't punished for turning a profit.
People have been brainwashed. We have the working class fighting for the Gentry and Ruling classes.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:27 pm
by a fan
I don't get it. It's not like the math is complicated.
Recall when Trump and Pence pulled off that Carrier deal? Remember how many posters didn't understand why that was a stupid deal?
Or Amazon and Long Island City?
The entire system will have to collapse before taxpayers go "oooooooh. So THAT'S why it's important to collect taxes from Amazon and Carrier".
The crazy thing is that the people who think it's brilliant to give Amazon and Carrier a free ride, are the same people who are outraged at how high their taxes are. I don't get how the lightbulb never goes on with these people.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:52 pm
by youthathletics
I think we are saying the same thing. But I am putting on the shoes of the govt not the people when I made that talking point/comparison below of the tech of today, vs tech of the 50’s.
The local and fed govt’s, they want people working in their districts, so anything that creates more people spending money they see is revenue and an ROI....even if it’s 10 multiple years.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:05 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:27 pm
I don't get it. It's not like the math is complicated.
Recall when Trump and Pence pulled off that Carrier deal? Remember how many posters didn't understand why that was a stupid deal?
Or Amazon and Long Island City?
The entire system will have to collapse before taxpayers go "oooooooh. So THAT'S why it's important to collect taxes from Amazon and Carrier".
The crazy thing is that the people who think it's brilliant to give Amazon and Carrier a free ride, are the same people who are outraged at how high their taxes are. I don't get how the lightbulb never goes on with these people.
Or how expensive college is.....That AOC last is stupid. She ran Amazon away:
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:52 pm
The local and fed govt’s, they want people working in their districts, so anything that creates more people spending money they see is revenue and an ROI....even if it’s 10 multiple years.
That's incorrect, and faulty logic.
If that's what they believed-----that businesses creates more employees that spend money in the community thereby "making up" for the unpaid Amazon taxes----they would eliminate business taxes altogether.
What they are doing, instead, is eliminating taxes for companies that can afford them (big corporations), and increasing the taxes on businesses that can least afford them.
In what mathematical universe does it make sense to not tax Amazon at all, yet force businesses like mine to pay a full slate of taxes....and this is the part everyone leaves out-------plus Amazon's share of taxes.
If Amazon brings, say, 1,000 employees to a city, and pay no taxes-----who pays for their share? If a fire breaks out in Amazon HQ, does the FD show up? Do they get police services? Does Amazon place wear and tear on infrastructure? Yes, yes, and yes.
This is grammar school math (.....if you take two apples away, how many apples does Johnny have left?), and I'm at a total loss as to why adult Americans can't handle the mind-numbingly simple truth that is: no, the additional employees don't make up for Amazon not paying their fare share. If that math worked, that would mean that no businesses should pay taxes.
Which is fine. And boy, would I LOVE to see what the residential property taxes would look like for a city that was dumb enough to end all business taxes.
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:52 pm
The local and fed govt’s, they want people working in their districts, so anything that creates more people spending money they see is revenue and an ROI....even if it’s 10 multiple years.
That's incorrect, and faulty logic.
If that's what they believed-----that businesses creates more employees spending money----they would eliminate business taxes altogether.
What they are doing, instead, is eliminating taxes for companies that can afford them (big corporations), and increasing the taxes on businesses that can least afford them.
In what mathematical universe does it make sense to not tax Amazon at all, yet force businesses like mine to pay a full slate of taxes....and this is the part everyone leaves out-------plus Amazon's share of taxes.
If Amazon brings, say, 1,000 employees to a city, and pay no taxes-----who pays for their share? If a fire breaks out in Amazon HQ, does the FD show up? Do they get police services? Does Amazon place wear and tear on infrastructure? Yes, yes, and yes.
This is grammar school math (.....if you take two apples away, how many apples does Johnny have left?), and I'm at a total loss as to why adult Americans can't handle the mind-numbingly simple truth that is: no, the additional employees don't make up for Amazon not paying their fare share. If that math worked, that would mean that no businesses should pay taxes.
Which is fine. And boy, would I LOVE to see what the residential property taxes would look like for a city that was dumb enough to end all business taxes.
Brainwashed
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:20 pm
by youthathletics
My comment about putting myself in the shoes of the govt, both local and federal, on their business incentives, seems to imply, by their (local and fed govts) decisions, that they believe there is incentive (for them) to structure the taxes this way. I believe you, but simply question why is going through their minds to make these decisions?
It’s not the people making these decisions per say....it’s the pols.
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:27 pm
I don't get it. It's not like the math is complicated.
Recall when Trump and Pence pulled off that Carrier deal? Remember how many posters didn't understand why that was a stupid deal?
Or Amazon and Long Island City?
The entire system will have to collapse before taxpayers go "oooooooh. So THAT'S why it's important to collect taxes from Amazon and Carrier".
The crazy thing is that the people who think it's brilliant to give Amazon and Carrier a free ride, are the same people who are outraged at how high their taxes are. I don't get how the lightbulb never goes on with these people.
Or how expensive college is.....That AOC last is stupid. She ran Amazon away:
She's my hero for being the first politician to see through this mathematical insanity. As far as I'm concerned? She can retire today, having accomplished more than 90% of her colleagues.
Btw, YouthAthletics-----it's the Dems who really started waving this "this corporation gets a special tax deal" nonsense at the State level in the 90's. Ask cradleandshoot about what it's done to taxation on citizens in NY State.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:25 pm
by a fan
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:20 pm
It’s not the people making these decisions per say....it’s the pols.
And the voters who support them. It took me pages of posting to get many on the forum to understand why the Pence/Carrier deal was idiotic. So long as the voter don't understand the math, Pols are more than happy to hand out tax favors to donors.
It's why AOC, Bernie make so much sense to millenials. The Boomers obviously can't freaking add or understand what fair taxation looks like. So why follow that path?
The Greatest generation understood taxation. Which is why taxes on corporations and the rich were high.
But it's also why even the very poor paid SOMETHING in their era. Everyone mucked in. No exceptions for the able bodied.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm
by youthathletics
I agree, for the most part. I also understand that the US and local states have stepped on their own Dicckks. They realized they wanted ‘business’ in their states to flourish, and needed incentive to attract them in our economy when businesses were exiting the US. I especially saw it during the dot com boom along the Dulles Corridoor in Virginia. Venture capital money was a stipend the get the ball rolling, then state govt facilitated the ease of opening up shop.....then the bottom dropped drop out when they produced no real long term fruit.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:12 pm
by a fan
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm
They realized they wanted ‘business’ in their states to flourish, and needed incentive to attract them in our economy
If that's the goal, there's a simple solution. Spend more money on your schools. Nothing attracts good business better than good schools.
That said, did you know your State of Virginia has the highest TPP taxes in the country? Tangible Personal Property tax. For businesses, this means equipment.
For an office, this is a nothing sandwich. For a factory like mine? It means getting hammered for the pleasure of owning pot stills, boilers, fermenters, etc. If you want factories? Get rid of TTP across the board if you want good global manufacturers, as Illinois has.
Kentucky, for example, taxes TPP inventory annually. Guess what that means for whiskey producers, sitting on hundreds and million of dollars of whiskey annually? Yikes. Hard pass.
Re: Orange Duce
Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:31 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:41 pm
I agree, for the most part. I also understand that the US and local states have stepped on their own Dicckks. They realized they wanted ‘business’ in their states to flourish, and needed incentive to attract them in our economy when businesses were exiting the US. I especially saw it during the dot com boom along the Dulles Corridoor in Virginia. Venture capital money was a stipend the get the ball rolling, then state govt facilitated the ease of opening up shop.....then the bottom dropped drop out when they produced no real long term fruit.
Expand the base.
The Gov't gives childcare tax breaks so both parents are incentivised to work.
Full day year school - sure! After school activities - of course!
Keep the kids in school longer, they can indoctrinate them fully about how to be "good people" by recycling, eating healthy and not smoking
The Gov't is Fagan. It wants you to slave for them.
