tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
Twenty years? Who's "we've" BTW? And how has it been dealt with? What did your hero Obama do about it during his 8 long years in office?
He's not my hero, and I'd be happy to talk about the Bush administration if you'd prefer.
They worked with the WTO and others to try and get China to stop. As you yourself have told me many, many, many times when it comes to positions that you like: you have to be patient for these things to work out. You patiences seems to be only reserved for Trump's policies, and no other Presidents. Now why is that?
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
Nope...ignore the warning signs and obvious deceitful ways and keep on doing business as usual (look at the NBA FCS!)
You don't have any Chinese computers or components that connect to the internet so you can send me this message, is that it?
I thought we liked it when our pro sports leagues suppressed free speech when FoxNation freaked out over Colin Kaepernick? What happened to that? Shut up and play sports, remember? Now suddenly right wing America wants our players to speak up?
Pick a lane.
And don't buy a computer. Or use the internet until China fixes whatever it is you don't like about them. THEN you can give the NBA grief for doing business with China.
Again: you want a Cold War with China. That's fine, and totally cool-----but some piddly tariffs won't achieve the goal you are after. I think it's helpful for you to understand that.
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
Now there's a policy for you a fan, look the other way and keep doing biz the way we always have. And left unchecked, just look what they've done militarily over that time period.
So why are we trading with them at all?
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
What i've been trying to explain to you is, finally someone is calling the Chicoms out and that is huge. Their dishonest and dangerous ways of using the free market to their benefit is front and center, headline news, but you belittle that because you don't like the messenger
It's been part of the world dialog for 20 years. Not my fault you don't follow the news.
As for standing up, are a we a nation? Or are we a five year old in a school yard? Because behaving like a nation, and dealing with trade and international politics is a tad more complicated than standing up to the kindergarten bully during lunch.
Trump has, in no particular order, "stood up" to Kim, the Mullahs, the EU, and China. Great. So you're happy. Why are you happy? What has "standing up" to these groups actually accomplished for our country?
Nothing.
Standing up to China has cost our economy hundreds of billions of dollars. And Trump can't even tell you what he wants from China. Trade deficit is worse. And we're still pumping billions into the Chinese economy. Something you just told me is bad, "because" it's helped them to grown their military. So why are you happy?
Standing up to Iran is working so well that we've had to send more troops to Saudi Arabia, of all places. Iran is now working on the bomb again. And China has stepped in to pump money into their economy. Sweet. That's working out great.
N Korea? Yep, he stood up to Kim by insulting him. Result after all the bluster ended? No change. Kim has nukes, and goes merrily about their business. Wow. This whole "standing up to fascists" is really productive.
EU? Can you even tell me why we're in a Trade War with the EU? I can't. So peers in my trade get to enjoy a 20% drop in sales in just 12 months because..... you want Trump to "stand up" to the EU?
Hard pass.
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
If this is how you really feel, why are we allowing 200K+ Chinese students in our Universities?
Your question...How do you feel about that a fan?
I'm not the one who wants to stand up to China. YOU are. So why aren't you demanding we stop facilitating IP theft in our Universities?
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:19 am
And you're lost in the weeds, demanding immediate results when the big-picture-first-step, the most important step, is right in front of your nose and you can't or refuse to see it.
I'm not demanding anything. I"m telling you what the score is. Trump's term ends in 13 months. It's not my fault that for the last year I've told you that China doesn't have elections, and America does....making negotiations impossible.
Cold War. That's it. That's the only card in the deck. You obviously don't want to hear this, so you accuse me of being short sighted. I'm telling you: if that's your long term goal....to not support the Chinese economy in any way, and to stifle theft of US tech.....Cold War is the only move.
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
And that is exactly what I was getting at...someone like NH needs to carry on.
No. Someone like NH will start a Cold War. That's fine. But you're not going to get what you want at the table.
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
We've already discussed that Trump going it alone is an obvious problem...that hasn't been handled well. But IMO, if nothing else, he gets credit for taking that "first step."
And my point is: this ain't the first step. We had people in the last two administrations working around the clock trying to get China to peacefully change course. Give them credit for that. Trump is just another link in the chain.
tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:15 am
Let's hope someone follows Trump and gets the rest of the global free market, including our allies, to pressure China to change their ways. That we can agree on.
This entire time I've been begging US officials---and Trump in particular----to send US trade reps and business reps all over the globe looking for new supply chains and customers.
They do that? Not only will my complaints disappear......you'll get what you want, which is the cessation of trade with China, while doing the least amount of economic damage to America as possible. THAT is the path.