The Nation's Financial Condition

[cradleandshoot]

Saw a news piece today that 24% of military families are food insecure.

F'ing awesome news. We're doing a great job. Hey---who's up for another tax cut?! Hooray!!

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-b ... nger-facts

"For many active-duty military members, hunger is a reality. As many as 24% of active-duty service members and their families experience food insecurity in the United States.

That group includes people like Sgt. Edgar, who returned from a yearlong deployment in the Army. He couldn’t afford a holiday meal for his family, so he visited a food pantry near his home in Virginia."'

The money hasn't trickled down yet.... more has to trickle up first.

Our civic league adopts a few military families each Thanksgiving and Christmas who need help. Most live on base. It's wild.

We support a local pantry. It’s amazing who utilizes a pantry….these are people that go to work everyday.

How the F can you show up every day in Congress, and pretend you don't know this is happening?

How far we have fallen that we can't feed our own )#*$#ing soldiers? And it ain't because we don't have the money. Anyone see the bill that was just passed? Maybe, oh, I don't know, we need to move all soldiers salaries up to get them in line with the cost of living?

We're a nation run by sociopaths. Best soldiers in the world, and we're INTENTIONALLY paying them so little that they can't freaking feed their own families? Gee, how come enlistment is down?

Awesome. Way to go, team. F the military families, right? After all, they can't make donations to these politicians, right? So F them, and the horse they can't afford, let alone ride in on......

To continue my rant a Fan... If we weren't paying 475 billion a year in interest on our debt there could be more money to pay our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines a respectable wage. Our nation will spend around 840 billion this year on a defense budget that doesn't have enough money to raise enlisted folks out of poverty. What is wrong with that picture?

We have 1.4 million active military personnel.

A $10,000 raise for each would $14,000,000,000. $14 billion.
A raise of $20,000 for each would be $28 billion.

Could we do that? You betcha.
Could we do that progressively, more at the lower levels, less for the generals? Yup.
Could we do that for less with food allowances for families? singles needing less? yup
Has little to nothing to do with the prior incurred debt, just our willingness to tax ourselves, putting people first.

It's costing you and I 475 billion to pay the interest on that debt. How does that have nothing to do with prior incurred debt? I suppose the interest charged on a 1000 dollars in credit card debt has little or nothing to do with what you purchased on the card. If we didn't have to pay 475 billion in interest payments I'm fairly sure we could afford to provide better for our military personnel. We did just spend around 840 billion on a defense budget. I'm guessing not much of that money will be spent on pay raises and other benefits?

[Kismet]

It's costing you and I 475 billion to pay the interest on that debt. How does that have nothing to do with prior incurred debt? I suppose the interest charged on a 1000 dollars in credit card debt has little or nothing to do with what you purchased on the card. If we didn't have to pay 475 billion in interest payments I'm fairly sure we could afford to provide better for our military personnel. We did just spend around 840 billion on a defense budget. I'm guessing not much of that money will be spent on pay raises and other benefits?

As usual, you'd be WRONG. The defense bill passed included:

"Provision for a 4.6% increase in military basic pay for service members, the largest in 20 years. The Department of Defense’s civilian workforce would get the same raise.

It would also bump up service members’ housing allowance by 2% and require a report on a “more transparent, fair, and flexible way to calculate the basic allowance for housing.”

The legislation would also increase the eligibility threshold for the Basic Needs Allowance, a new supplemental payment for low-income military families, to 150% of the federal poverty line, up from 130%.

NDAA would also increase funding for commissaries to help offset higher prices. And it would create a pilot program to reimburse military families for certain child care costs related to a permanent change of station.

It would authorize the reimbursement of up to $4,000 for pet relocation expenses stemming from permanent changes of station to or from locations outside the continental US. "

You should have taken the 5th.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/nickel-a ... d/summary/

Good book. A few years old but still worth the read.

Yes, indeed, it's insightful. If you get a chance, watch Morgan Spurlock's "30 Days on Minimum Wage", changed my perception about a couple of things, e.g. tipping at a coffee shop and the value of thrift stores to the working poor.

Thanks. Will look for it. Saw a news piece today that 24% of military families are food insecure. Also, most food pantry recipients work.

Maybe if our nation wasn't paying 475 billion this year in interest on the debt we could afford a sizeable pay raise for the military. There is no minimum wage if your a low ranking enlisted man/woman. I hope more people read Rand Pauls Festivus report. Maybe that will soak in and some of you will better understand why some service members struggle to buy food. We as a nation can't afford a respectable wage for the people that serve our country because we are whizzing billions of dollars on stupid chit. I hope all of you understand that 475 billion in interest payments alone is damn near half of the defense budget for next year. It might even be possible that even my fellow forum members understand 475 billion dollars spent on interest ain't exactly pocket change?

That’s your analysis? Interest on the national debt is why we can’t pay soldiers more money?

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's costing you and I 475 billion to pay the interest on that debt. How does that have nothing to do with prior incurred debt? I suppose the interest charged on a 1000 dollars in credit card debt has little or nothing to do with what you purchased on the card. If we didn't have to pay 475 billion in interest payments I'm fairly sure we could afford to provide better for our military personnel. We did just spend around 840 billion on a defense budget. I'm guessing not much of that money will be spent on pay raises and other benefits?

As usual, you'd be WRONG. The defense bill passed included:

"Provision for a 4.6% increase in military basic pay for service members, the largest in 20 years. The Department of Defense’s civilian workforce would get the same raise.

It would also bump up service members’ housing allowance by 2% and require a report on a “more transparent, fair, and flexible way to calculate the basic allowance for housing.”

The legislation would also increase the eligibility threshold for the Basic Needs Allowance, a new supplemental payment for low-income military families, to 150% of the federal poverty line, up from 130%.

NDAA would also increase funding for commissaries to help offset higher prices. And it would create a pilot program to reimburse military families for certain child care costs related to a permanent change of station.

It would authorize the reimbursement of up to $4,000 for pet relocation expenses stemming from permanent changes of station to or from locations outside the continental US. "

You should have taken the 5th.

He removes all doubt……

[cradleandshoot]

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/nickel-a ... d/summary/

Good book. A few years old but still worth the read.

Yes, indeed, it's insightful. If you get a chance, watch Morgan Spurlock's "30 Days on Minimum Wage", changed my perception about a couple of things, e.g. tipping at a coffee shop and the value of thrift stores to the working poor.

Thanks. Will look for it. Saw a news piece today that 24% of military families are food insecure. Also, most food pantry recipients work.

Maybe if our nation wasn't paying 475 billion this year in interest on the debt we could afford a sizeable pay raise for the military. There is no minimum wage if your a low ranking enlisted man/woman. I hope more people read Rand Pauls Festivus report. Maybe that will soak in and some of you will better understand why some service members struggle to buy food. We as a nation can't afford a respectable wage for the people that serve our country because we are whizzing billions of dollars on stupid chit. I hope all of you understand that 475 billion in interest payments alone is damn near half of the defense budget for next year. It might even be possible that even my fellow forum members understand 475 billion dollars spent on interest ain't exactly pocket change?

That’s your analysis? Interest on the national debt is why we can’t pay soldiers more money?

Think about young man, think about it. It is not about our national debt. IT IS ABOUT what it cost you and I to pay the INTEREST ON THAT DEBT. We just passed an 840 billion defense budget. Have you done a deep dive to find out how much of that money goes to our soldiers? Does it not pizz you off you are stuck with a 475 billion dollar tab to pay for interest on this debt? I guess not. Move along young man, nothing to see here. I wonder if we add another 2 trillion in debt next year what that will cost the taxpayers. ( Those are the folks the usual suspects on this forum can't relate to) What the F**K is the point of being a fiscal conservative when I read day after day after day after day after day people who don't give a rats ass about 31 trillion in debt or how much it is costing all of us to pay the interest on that debt. I pay my credit card off in full every month. Why do I do that... Because I refuse to pay the interest. Silly me, the US Government doesn't have to worry about where the money comes from. That money is coming from all of us. So next year we will add another 2 trillion or so in debt.why quibble about numbers now? Who cares if that number to pay the interest next year bumps up to 500 billion dollars. It ain't the governments money and they don't give a chit how they spend it or who winds up paying the tab.

[cradleandshoot]

It's costing you and I 475 billion to pay the interest on that debt. How does that have nothing to do with prior incurred debt? I suppose the interest charged on a 1000 dollars in credit card debt has little or nothing to do with what you purchased on the card. If we didn't have to pay 475 billion in interest payments I'm fairly sure we could afford to provide better for our military personnel. We did just spend around 840 billion on a defense budget. I'm guessing not much of that money will be spent on pay raises and other benefits?

As usual, you'd be WRONG. The defense bill passed included:

"Provision for a 4.6% increase in military basic pay for service members, the largest in 20 years. The Department of Defense’s civilian workforce would get the same raise.

It would also bump up service members’ housing allowance by 2% and require a report on a “more transparent, fair, and flexible way to calculate the basic allowance for housing.”

The legislation would also increase the eligibility threshold for the Basic Needs Allowance, a new supplemental payment for low-income military families, to 150% of the federal poverty line, up from 130%.

NDAA would also increase funding for commissaries to help offset higher prices. And it would create a pilot program to reimburse military families for certain child care costs related to a permanent change of station.

It would authorize the reimbursement of up to $4,000 for pet relocation expenses stemming from permanent changes of station to or from locations outside the continental US. "

You should have taken the 5th.

He removes all doubt……

What I need to do is break out my old hip boots. The bullchit bring thrown my way is getting deeper and deeper with every pathetic attempt to explain the inexplicable. So in the fantasy island world of FLP toadstools 475 billion dollars in taxpayer money being spent on the INTEREST for this debt is no big deal. Carry on folks it ain't like anybody in this forum cares a rats ass about how much it costs to find our dumb asses 31 trillion dollars in debt. I'm glad that my wife and I don't run our household the same way the gubmint does. RIP all of us who may have been fiscal conservatives. We have been dead and buried and will soon be forgotten.

[cradleandshoot]

It's costing you and I 475 billion to pay the interest on that debt. How does that have nothing to do with prior incurred debt? I suppose the interest charged on a 1000 dollars in credit card debt has little or nothing to do with what you purchased on the card. If we didn't have to pay 475 billion in interest payments I'm fairly sure we could afford to provide better for our military personnel. We did just spend around 840 billion on a defense budget. I'm guessing not much of that money will be spent on pay raises and other benefits?

As usual, you'd be WRONG. The defense bill passed included:

"Provision for a 4.6% increase in military basic pay for service members, the largest in 20 years. The Department of Defense’s civilian workforce would get the same raise.

It would also bump up service members’ housing allowance by 2% and require a report on a “more transparent, fair, and flexible way to calculate the basic allowance for housing.”

The legislation would also increase the eligibility threshold for the Basic Needs Allowance, a new supplemental payment for low-income military families, to 150% of the federal poverty line, up from 130%.

NDAA would also increase funding for commissaries to help offset higher prices. And it would create a pilot program to reimburse military families for certain child care costs related to a permanent change of station.

It would authorize the reimbursement of up to $4,000 for pet relocation expenses stemming from permanent changes of station to or from locations outside the continental US. "

You should have taken the 5th.

I guess with an 840 billion defense budget there would be some crumbs left over to throw at the peasants. Good for our service members. Their pay increase will have to be tempered by what their COL expenses will be. Usually it winds up being a zero sum game.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's costing you and I 475 billion to pay the interest on that debt. How does that have nothing to do with prior incurred debt? I suppose the interest charged on a 1000 dollars in credit card debt has little or nothing to do with what you purchased on the card. If we didn't have to pay 475 billion in interest payments I'm fairly sure we could afford to provide better for our military personnel. We did just spend around 840 billion on a defense budget. I'm guessing not much of that money will be spent on pay raises and other benefits?

As usual, you'd be WRONG. The defense bill passed included:

"Provision for a 4.6% increase in military basic pay for service members, the largest in 20 years. The Department of Defense’s civilian workforce would get the same raise.

It would also bump up service members’ housing allowance by 2% and require a report on a “more transparent, fair, and flexible way to calculate the basic allowance for housing.”

The legislation would also increase the eligibility threshold for the Basic Needs Allowance, a new supplemental payment for low-income military families, to 150% of the federal poverty line, up from 130%.

NDAA would also increase funding for commissaries to help offset higher prices. And it would create a pilot program to reimburse military families for certain child care costs related to a permanent change of station.

It would authorize the reimbursement of up to $4,000 for pet relocation expenses stemming from permanent changes of station to or from locations outside the continental US. "

You should have taken the 5th.

He removes all doubt……

What I need to do is break out my old hip boots. The bullchit bring thrown my way is getting deeper and deeper with every pathetic attempt to explain the inexplicable. So in the fantasy island world of FLP toadstools 475 billion dollars in taxpayer money being spent on the INTEREST for this debt is no big deal. Carry on folks it ain't like anybody in this forum cares a rats ass about how much it costs to find our dumb asses 31 trillion dollars in debt. I'm glad that my wife and I don't run our household the same way the gubmint does. RIP all of us who may have been fiscal conservatives. We have been dead and buried and will soon be forgotten.

[MDlaxfan76]

Glad to hear of the raise. As I said, of course we can afford a raise.

It is simply whether we prioritize such.

Or we can whine about it.

[cradleandshoot]

Glad to hear of the raise. As I said, of course we can afford a raise.

It is simply whether we prioritize such.

Or we can whine about it.

Of course we can afford a raise. With a bloated 840 billion dollar defense budget there should be some crumbs left over to compensate the men and women doing the heavy lifting. It makes a person wonder why our service members are treated like second class citizens in the nation they have sworn an oath to protect and defend? When an E4 married with a couple of kids can't afford to feed and support his family on the the salary the government pays them... Then maybe they can get by with one less aircraft carrier and a few less stealth bombers. That fact could account for why so many of these dedicated and talented men and women are leaving the military in droves. I don't blame them one little bit.

[MDlaxfan76]

Glad to hear of the raise. As I said, of course we can afford a raise.

It is simply whether we prioritize such.

Or we can whine about it.

Of course we can afford a raise. With a bloated 840 billion dollar defense budget there should be some crumbs left over to compensate the men and women doing the heavy lifting. It makes a person wonder why our service members are treated like second class citizens in the nation they have sworn an oath to protect and defend? When an E4 married with a couple of kids can't afford to feed and support his family on the the salary the government pays them... Then maybe they can get by with one less aircraft carrier and a few less stealth bombers. That fact could account for why so many of these dedicated and talented men and women are leaving the military in droves. I don't blame them one little bit.

The military has increased employment in each of the past 4 years, about 50,000 higher. So, I don't know about the "leaving the military in droves".

But it is true that recruitment is short of objectives, as they've been trying to grow faster these last two years. They want more young people than they've been able to get, falling short of target by about 25%. It's largely harder due to low unemployment overall, with increasing wages and benefits in the private sector, so a very competitive marketplace for employees.

So, yes, need to be more competitive to attract good people. Glad to see the most recent package addresses this problem, albeit sounds to me like they could/should do more.

I won't go down the rabbit hole of what is "bloat" and what is "not", as I truly don't know. Do we need modernized weapon systems, ships, etc, as guys like Salty have been advocating?

We sure as heck don't want to actually find out how much of a difference it would make if things got directly hot...we do, however, know that sophisticated weaponry and first rate training makes a difference on the battlefield...big problem if not ready.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Glad to hear of the raise. As I said, of course we can afford a raise.

It is simply whether we prioritize such.

Or we can whine about it.

Of course we can afford a raise. With a bloated 840 billion dollar defense budget there should be some crumbs left over to compensate the men and women doing the heavy lifting. It makes a person wonder why our service members are treated like second class citizens in the nation they have sworn an oath to protect and defend? When an E4 married with a couple of kids can't afford to feed and support his family on the the salary the government pays them... Then maybe they can get by with one less aircraft carrier and a few less stealth bombers. That fact could account for why so many of these dedicated and talented men and women are leaving the military in droves. I don't blame them one little bit.

Glad to see you finally came around.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/countr ... l-economy/

[get it to x]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/countr ... l-economy/

So what is your point? That socialism is the answer? You think reducing our standard of living to "level" out world GDP would bring about what? World Peace? A cure for cancer? A cleaner environment? An end to hunger and poverty? All of these things have advanced and have a better chance of happening under free market capitalism than under any other system. The incentive to accumulate wealth, whether immense or modest, is the greatest driver of success and innovation anywhere.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/countr ... l-economy/

So what is your point? That socialism is the answer? You think reducing our standard of living to "level" out world GDP would bring about what? World Peace? A cure for cancer? A cleaner environment? An end to hunger and poverty? All of these things have advanced and have a better chance of happening under free market capitalism than under any other system. The incentive to accumulate wealth, whether immense or modest, is the greatest driver of success and innovation anywhere.

Just pointing out the mix. I am a capitalist.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/nickel-a ... d/summary/

Good book. A few years old but still worth the read.

Yes, indeed, it's insightful. If you get a chance, watch Morgan Spurlock's "30 Days on Minimum Wage", changed my perception about a couple of things, e.g. tipping at a coffee shop and the value of thrift stores to the working poor.

Tip jars are a subsidy to the business.

[a fan]

All of these things have advanced and have a better chance of happening under free market capitalism than under any other system. The incentive to accumulate wealth, whether immense or modest, is the greatest driver of success and innovation anywhere.

Bolded is the key, I agree. But this also means that there's plenty of room for socialism so long as you keep the incentive to accumulate wealth.

I really like your turn of phrase "whether immense of modest". That's often left out when people discuss capitalism, and is critical to understand human behavior.

The Laffer Curve crowd ignores this completely. Things like parents that are happy as the day is long to make $100K=$150K collectively, and focus the time they have on family....accumulate enough wealth to do that, and have a happy life.

For me? It's obvious as the day is long that a mix of socialism and capitalism is the way to go, since every single 1st world country has that mix.

The only question worth discussing is: where do you draw the line, and how much socialism do you have?

[Andersen]

Andersen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:11 pm
https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/nickel-a ... d/summary/

Good book. A few years old but still worth the read.
Yes, indeed, it's insightful. If you get a chance, watch Morgan Spurlock's "30 Days on Minimum Wage", changed my perception about a couple of things, e.g. tipping at a coffee shop and the value of thrift stores to the working poor.
Tip jars are a subsidy to the business.

I don't doubt it. In the 30 Days episode, the tip jar made a significant difference in the dollars Morgan's partner took home every day. My imperfect understanding is that the manner in which tips are distributed to the workers varies quite a bit. Any insights to this?

[cradleandshoot]

Glad to hear of the raise. As I said, of course we can afford a raise.

It is simply whether we prioritize such.

Or we can whine about it.

Of course we can afford a raise. With a bloated 840 billion dollar defense budget there should be some crumbs left over to compensate the men and women doing the heavy lifting. It makes a person wonder why our service members are treated like second class citizens in the nation they have sworn an oath to protect and defend? When an E4 married with a couple of kids can't afford to feed and support his family on the the salary the government pays them... Then maybe they can get by with one less aircraft carrier and a few less stealth bombers. That fact could account for why so many of these dedicated and talented men and women are leaving the military in droves. I don't blame them one little bit.

Glad to see you finally came around.

I had a good friend in my platoon who lived off post with his wife and young daughter. It was a constant struggle for them every month to make ends meet. It was hard enough for them with the time he spent away from them for weeks at a time. When your serving your country and can't afford to feed your family something is seriously wrong with a system that can allow that to happen.

[NattyBohChamps04]

I had a good friend in my platoon who lived off post with his wife and young daughter. It was a constant struggle for them every month to make ends meet. It was hard enough for them with the time he spent away from them for weeks at a time. When your serving your country and can't afford to feed your family something is seriously wrong with a system that can allow that to happen.

I'm sure the next time your party gets into power they will finally address the issue more than the D's have...