Trump's Russian Collusion

[ardilla secreta]

[(lifelong R)
I like Pete and Amy the most, not sure I understand Yang's pitch as yet.
There are aspects of Tulsi I like, but I'm not 'all in' on her like some on here.
I'd be fine with Kamala, serious person, not a flamer.
I'd be disappointed by Biden, but put up with it for 4 years if that's what it takes.
I'd be semi-horrified by Bernie or Warren...

But a 'piece of wood' gets my vote over Trump. Including the flamers.

I, too, am a lifelong r. Both of my parents, and a brother, have been elected to school boards as Republicans. My values and convictions have not changes a whit since I was cheering for Reagan at the beginning of the '80's. Maybe I've learned to respect those whose circumstances weren't quite as accommodating as mine in our youth, but I still believe in measuring twice and cutting once, fiscal responsibility, cautious welfare, and a well oiled diplomatic corps.

I like Yang and Pete, but I also like Warren. Not so much for her platform, but because she wants to nudge our nation in a direction it needs to go.

I can hear your sphincter clamping as you read "Warren". Let me explain.

She's a wonk. I'm a nerd. You, my dear man, are an intellectual. We all see.......the same mega problems. I don't need to (or care to) list these.

I want health care to be a utility. Generally available and regulated. I spent 8 months in and out of a Santa Barbara Oncology shop a few years ago, and saw several 'less fortunate' people shown the door in tears. Yes, I'll pay more taxes not to ever have to see that again. Lots more taxes. As long as the program is administered free of political intervention. Yes, we can do that.

I want to see K Street neutered. There's only 500 or so people who benefit from K Street, and the rest of us either play ball or suffer the consequences. By 'play ball', I mean bribe legislators. This is blatant and bad. The Constitution does not make room for purchasing votes or support. Nor should we.

I want people who can't spend or gift or donate all of their income every month to pay more tax than a family living off of a bunch of minimum wage jobs. I want that tax premium to go to a trust fund for the less fortunate, and not cooler weapons or nation building. I want that to be explicit.

I don't have a problem with hardworking immigrants. I have a problem with criminal immigrants, as well as violent criminal citizens.

This, as far as I'm concerned, is the attitude of old school Republicans. The few dozen of us left. Warren will be able to get just a handful of her initiatives accomplished, and hopefully she stays wonky and realizes that she'll need bipartisan help. Hopefully the R's will realize that working with her won't crater their career.

Hopefully........

I’m largely with you on this topic. While my parents were lifelong R were they to be alive today they would be very unhappy with current R leadership. I’ve been a longtime independent because we have the best government money can buy and that goes to both sides. Until we get the money out of influencing our government then we’ll see little progress. At least Warren is willing to take a stab at some change.

While Warren isn’t my preferred candidate, Joe and Bernie are on their way down and she’s looking like the most viable. I too like Pete, but I need more from him than being a smaller city major. Would like to see more of Mr Yang too.

Regarding Warren. I have a very close friend whose brother worked on campaigns for people in the Democratic Party across the nation and has friends in very high places in the D world. Apparently, if accurate, Warren is promising the appropriate people that she will take a more moderate approach in the campaign as things progress. We’ll see.

[MDlaxfan76]

PB, let me first address the 'logic' of your question summarized as "what has Der Leader done to hurt you or your family personally?"

You could have asked the same question of most Germans under Hitler's early years. Indeed, most Germans 'benefited' or at least were not 'hurt' under early fascism. Emphasis on "most Germans".

My concern is indeed the rise of acceptance of the authoritarian, strong man 'leader', no matter what damage is done to our Constitutional democracy and norms of civil behavior.

Are you suggesting that an 'authoritarian' would be in favor of his citizens having the unassailable right to bear arms (our 2nd Amendment)? Because Trump is a fairly reliable supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

My other question would be surrounding the Hitler analogy. Hitler was influenced at a very early age by Georg Ritter von Schönerer and Karl Lueger. Wouldn't it be consistent to assume that in no conceivable universe would Trump allow his eldest daughter to not simply marry a Jew but to actually convert to that religion as well? If your analogy is appropriate, that is.

We can find differences between every authoritarian leader, one from another.
Those differences don't mean that they aren't each authoritarians.

To address your two particular points:

With regard to "citizens" having the right to bear arms, do you really think Hitler didn't want his followers to have weapons? You know the "we have the tough people". Taking weapons away from the citizenry comes later, same for curfews, etc.

Don't get me wrong; we're not there yet.

On antisemitism, that is not a requirement to be an authoritarian, though demonization of the religious or ethnic "Other" is a quite common characteristic of the false 'populism' in the rise of the authoritarian. We can see quite a lot of that in Trumpism and more specifically in Trump's language.

And antisemitism is certainly a major strain within a portion of the Trumpist base.

[ABV 8.3%]

Regarding Warren. I have a very close friend whose brother worked on campaigns for people in the Democratic Party across the nation and has friends in very high places in the D world. Apparently, if accurate, Warren is promising the appropriate people that she will take a more moderate approach in the campaign as things progress. We’ll see.

Do you know who advised her to lie about being fired for because she was pregnant?

[dislaxxic]

Do you know who advised her to lie about being fired for because she was pregnant?

Right Wing Fake News. Nice try though...that tripe doesn't fly around here anymore...

..

[dislaxxic]

THE ACTUAL LAWS TRUMP HAS BROKEN, JUST WITH THE UKRAINE AND CHINA AFFAIRS, COULD LAND HIM 10 YEARS IN PRISON

Chapter and Verse. gg?

..

[ABV 8.3%]

(and prove that both R's and D's wanted another countries AG removed, b/c that's certainly what WE pay them to do.....other countries politics )

Here's your proof 3R.

Feb 2016 letter signed by six U.S. Senators (GOP Portman, Johnson, Kirk; Dems Murphy, Blumenthal, Brown): "We similarly urge you to press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General's office and judiciary."

Along with the USA, the EU and the IMF were also urging the ouster of Sholkin. Which GOP Sen. Johnson has acknowledged:

Johnson did acknowledge the letter in an interview Thursday on WIBA's "The Vicki McKenna Show," saying "The WHOLE WORLD, by the way, including the Ukranian caucus, which I signed the letter, the WHOLE WORLD felt that this that Sholkin wasn't doing a [good] enough job. So we were saying hey you've ... got to rid yourself of corruption."

So I guess your theory is that Joe Biden, in order to protect Hunter, cleverly duped the WHOLE WORLD (including GOP Senators, EU nations and the IMF) to believe that Sholkin had to be canned because he was a rotten apple. When the truth was that Sholkin was a good egg who needed to be wrongly ousted in order to protect Hunter's sleazy gig at Burisma.

Hunter's Burisma deal was sleazy and a conflict of interest for Joe. Everyone agrees on that. But it is a conspiracy theory that Biden booted Sholkin to protect Hunter. Since, THE WHOLE WORLD wanted Sholkin ousted. Not just Joe.

Let me know your thoughts, 3R.

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom ... tment-help

The whole world? please. Didn't even know about any of this until the WhistleBlower issue arose. Be honest, who else didn't ? Can't follow every corrupt tom, maryjane, gregory or marsha in the this country......we are suppossed to pay attention to others?

What made the Ukrainian AG corrupt? I know, more questions......

Ask again, why are US Senators involved in other countries affairs? They have interests in burmisa/fossil fuel industry?

[ABV 8.3%]

Do you know who advised her to lie about being fired for because she was pregnant?

Right Wing Fake News. Nice try though...that tripe doesn't fly around here anymore...

..

Really.......why do you do this? her own lie right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkWsc3IZ73A

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkF2nf7XZIQ

[ABV 8.3%]

Did you know that one of Warrens TOP campaign staffer got fired for inappropriate behavior.....me neither.

[ggait]

The whole world? please.

Not my words.

Direct quote from Sen. Johnson, R-Wisconsin, staunch Trump defender and member of the Senate Ukraine caucus. If Johnson says the whole world wanted Sholkin ousted, presumably we should go with that.

Ask again, why are US Senators involved in other countries affairs?

Well there is this thing called the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Johnson and Portman are on it fyi.

Are you denying that the Euros, the IMF and the USA (on a bi-partisan basis) all wanted Sholkin to be booted? Come on -- the evidence is over-whelming. Biden was implementing a policy that was broadly broadly supported.

Hunter's grift was sleazy but legal. Trump's grift was sleazy and illegal. Not the same thing.

[runrussellrun]

The whole world? please.

Not my words.

Direct quote from Sen. Johnson, R-Wisconsin, staunch Trump defender and member of the Senate Ukraine caucus. If Johnson says the whole world wanted Sholkin ousted, presumably we should go with that. He had intel on invading Iraq too

Ask again, why are US Senators involved in other countries affairs?

Well there is this thing called the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Johnson and Portman are on it fyi.

Are you denying that the Euros, the IMF and the USA (on a bi-partisan basis) all wanted Sholkin to be booted? Come on -- the evidence is over-whelming. Biden was implementing a policy that was broadly broadly supported. Yeah, but why the withholding of the money until Biden gets what he wants? Isn't that wrong?

Hunter's grift was sleazy but legal. Trump's grift was sleazy and illegal. Not the same thing.

[runrussellrun]

THE ACTUAL LAWS TRUMP HAS BROKEN, JUST WITH THE UKRAINE AND CHINA AFFAIRS, COULD LAND HIM 10 YEARS IN PRISON

Chapter and Verse. gg?

..

Had no idea that our laws referred to elected representatives as "officer".

Many of these laws need the extorted to step up. Ukraine Prez. has already said "no" to the "did you feel extorted " questions, so there goes 18 U.S. Code § 872. Now on intimidating good ole fashioned GOP backstabbers, getting both tRump and them ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6i5H3_TqQ

[holmes435]

Two Men Who Worked With Rudy Giuliani To Dig Up Dirt On Biden Have Been Arrested

It appears these two were using a PAC to launder foreign money (probably Russian) to donate to Republicans in an effort to push the Biden / Ukraine narrative.

Just one more straw on the giant pile as to why Mitch McConnell's Citizen's United lawsuit and ruling are so incredibly damaging to America. Shame.

[dislaxxic]

Really.......why do you do this? her own lie right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkWsc3IZ73A

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkF2nf7XZIQ

It's right wing tripe. You get as confused as that OTHER ramblin' man here in the boards...and just as far out in right field.

...or was it left out?

..

[dislaxxic]

What The Parnas-Fruman Indictment Reveals About The Trump-Ukraine Pressure Scheme

..

[dislaxxic]

Where Does Pete Sessions Fit Into The Indictment Of Rudy’s Cronies?



..

[CU88]

since the r's will not say anything factual or negative about their hero, o d:

The Constitution doesn’t indicate that removal from office requires two-thirds of the Senate. It requires two-thirds of senators present for the proceedings.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/10/1 ... ing-about/

[njbill]

Now that a couple of the Plumbers have been arrested, Trump and Rudy better hope they are G. Gordon Liddy types and not songbirds.

[dislaxxic]

DOJ CONFIRMS THAT TRUMP’S ANTI-BIDEN PROPAGANDISTS WERE IN THE EMPLOY OF A RUSSIAN

"...hard to see how Trump is not implicated in the charged conspiracy"

..

[ggait]

Yeah, but why the withholding of the money until Biden gets what he wants? Isn't that wrong?

3R -- No that isn't wrong.

It is fine if Biden, acting in accordance with the stated and legitimate policy goals of the USA, Euro allies and the IMF, and also with the authority of President Obama, told the Ukes no aid money until the bad prosecutor was gone. That's using public money and leverage to pursue USA foreign policy.

It would not be fine if Trump, acting in contravention with the stated policy goals of the USA (as evidenced by bi-partisan support in Congress and also the support of the State Department) told the Ukes no aid money until I get an investigation and/or dirt on my likely 2020 election opponent. That's using public money and leverage to frustrate USA foreign policy in favor of personal political interests. That's illegal and impeachable.

Do you really not see the difference? Really?

[ggait]

Now that a couple of the Plumbers have been arrested, Trump and Rudy better hope they are G. Gordon Liddy types and not songbirds.

These two guys have hired Trump's former personal counsel John Dowd. They previously hired/worked with Rudy and Joe Digenova.

Plan A would seem to be hoping for a pardon. But since Trump is more of a pardon dangler than a pardon giver, who knows what Plan B might be.