Progressive Ideology

[Peter Brown]

Then the 1619 project needs to be discussed. It is an attempt by one author to rewrite Americ isan history. IMO the 1619 project deserves a thread all its own.

That's fine.

But what about the current standard, popular HS American History Textbooks? Are welcome going to fact check those, too? Check them for bias or glaring errors of omission?

Or do we start with the assumption that these textbooks are flawless, and ONLY look at the 1619 Project. If we hold all these books to the same standard? Sign me up.

But the clear place to start is to examine what books are ACTUALLY being used in American High Schools first. I think folks would be surprised by the problems in those books.

The 64 thousand dollar question is how do you go about reevaluating the history of our nation in a factual and unbiased manner? To do so the folks doing the reevaluating would have to be neutral and unbiased and only interested in the facts.Good luck finding those individuals. If the people in charge of updating US history have their own preconceived notions and bias their mission is doomed from the start. I use the 1619 project as one example. It is a fascinating theory but when the author uses it as her basis to slam a country that was 150 plus years away from being born. There is a problem there in my opinion. How many school kids are being thought that the 1619 project is a factual look at history and not the authors opinion? It never ceases to amaze me how so many folks put the bright spotlight at what we have done wrong as Americans and completely overlook all that our nation has done right. I am all for teaching kids about the history of slavery in this world. The history of slavery in the world should be thought in the proper context, that would be from its earliest know start. It becomes very complex very quickly. I do know that it didn't begin in 1619 and I do know that the United States of America was the only nation in 1000s of years to actually do something to end the scourge of slavery. There is no doubt our nation has made many mistakes along the way. It is fair to say that by and large as a nation we have learned from our mistakes and keep moving forward how ever slowly our nation does so.

+1

One of the distinguishing characteristics of a typical leftist-liberal-Democrats, which I’ve never quite figured out, is they prefer (by their own admission) to see mostly the negatives of the country they live in. I’m not even saying that’s wrong; to each his own.

I suspect they might say (conversely) that Republicans-conservatives only want to see the sterilized happy version of American. And who knows, maybe that’s correct too

I’d simply say to my friends on the left that you risk being seen as a Debbie Downer if all you ever agitate for is a negative interpretation of what, for most, is simply the greatest country in the history of mankind. I could wax poetic every second how incredible this country is, it’s accomplishments, it’s selflessness, it’s resilience. Immigrants don’t come here for the negatives!

When I dive in, I don’t see the grand negative narrative that American liberals demand to be taught, sorry. You might prefer to take that route, but all I can say for sure is numbers never lie, they can confuse for a short time, but in the end, the numbers don’t lie. I do see hundreds of murders in Baltimore, but I mostly see a company like Under Armour built from scratch by a guy with a vision, now employing thousands of Americans, people who are happy and purposeful and becoming wealthier in spirit and net worth. So even in a liberal city like Baltimore, in spite of the crime and ruin, even from that wreck springs hope, by a person with passion, free enough to create a dream that benefits so many people (employees, shareholders, adjacent landowners, stakeholders…great job Kevin!!). That’s the story of America to me.

[RedFromMI]

So the PB approach is to only see the positives and brush all the negatives under the rug - and condemn anyone who says differently.

Rather than looking at the problems of the past and finding ways of fixing them so they do not continue to be problems.

I think that fixing those problems is NOT in any way thinking only negative things about America - but rather using the love of not only what America is but can be to make it a better place. Putting blinders on is not helpful - it allows those problems to continue to affect our great nation.

PB would rather make that attempt at making America better nothing but a negative.

[Peter Brown]

So the PB approach is to only see the positives and brush all the negatives under the rug - and condemn anyone who says differently.

Rather than looking at the problems of the past and finding ways of fixing them so they do not continue to be problems.

I think that fixing those problems is NOT in any way thinking only negative things about America - but rather using the love of not only what America is but can be to make it a better place. Putting blinders on is not helpful - it allows those problems to continue to affect our great nation.

PB would rather make that attempt at making America better nothing but a negative.

That’s of course not what I said.

I said, Democrats risk being seen as Debbie Downers, constantly promoting the negatives of America, but never the positives.

If all you ever did was listen to AOC, does she ever talk of any successful entrepreneur in America? I hear her complaints, about police, the military, white people, patriarchy, Desantis, capitalism, etc. I mean, she seems like a leader of the Dems, yet all she’s known for is complaining. And if you read Fanlax FLP, do they ever bring up success stories?

Trump, for all his much-analyzed warts, did a great job talking up business leaders, entrepreneurs, etc. Unless you understand that “the business of America is business”, you’ll do what Democrats do: be seen as solely focused on knocking down the very great country that millions of foreigners would give their life to move to, but many libs (by their own admission!!) implausibly hate. Totally bizarre.

One reason among many that Democrats will never broaden their base is they are seen as negative nabobs. I’m actually suggesting you try to change that arc.

[a fan]

Then the 1619 project needs to be discussed. It is an attempt by one author to rewrite Americ isan history. IMO the 1619 project deserves a thread all its own.

That's fine.

But what about the current standard, popular HS American History Textbooks? Are welcome going to fact check those, too? Check them for bias or glaring errors of omission?

Or do we start with the assumption that these textbooks are flawless, and ONLY look at the 1619 Project. If we hold all these books to the same standard? Sign me up.

But the clear place to start is to examine what books are ACTUALLY being used in American High Schools first. I think folks would be surprised by the problems in those books.

The 64 thousand dollar question is how do you go about reevaluating the history of our nation in a factual and unbiased manner?

You can't. It's literally impossible. It why I laugh at the notion that when you and I were kids....K-12 history books were flawless monuments to pedagogy. You have to leave things out.....you have no choice. And these are American kids you're teaching.....attention span of a squirrel.

When I was in college, there was a notion called Cultural Literacy that was all the rage. The concept started at Columbia in the 20's and was fully installed at the U of Chicago around WWII. Basically, the idea was to teach from the so called "Great Books". Thucydides, J Joyce, Shakespeare etc.....the biggies. All so that you had a "common cultural language" with with to converse with other people in the Western Hemisphere. So you'd know, for instance, the plot of Hamlet. Or Oedipus Rex. Then you'd be prepared to discuss ideas----what they called "the Great Conversation" of Western Ideas that's a few thousand years in the making.

It's a swell idea, and highly romanticized----and I was sucked in in my 20's. The problem, or at least one of them.....is that it's patently difficult to get the vast majority of students engaged in reading something from a couple thousand years ago. It can be very difficult to see yourself and your world in, for example, Euripides.....if you're an inner city kid......or a in the middle of nowhere rural kid.

It's why so many teachers are including more of what the Republicans are touting as the bad part of American history. That's not it at all.....they're trying to engage kids in the story of America from a perspective other than us white guys. And for non-white, non-WASPs', obviously it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. But so what? Tell the story, so that they can be a part of making our imperfect union a little better.

Heck, Trump's slogan is Make America Great Again. Obviously, this implies that America was once great.....and is no longer a great nation. How the F isn't that a negative nelly way of looking at our country? And yet Trumpists believe it's a call to action and a positive message, right?

Well, same goes for our Nation's darker historical details. The good news is, a lot of those horrible things are in the rear view mirror...and we can learn from these mistakes, and make America better for the current generation.

IMHO, folks need to calm down, and REALLY take a look at some of these proposed history lesson plans. Newsflash: NONE of them are perfect, so we should stop pretending that that's the bar.

[a fan]

So the PB approach is to only see the positives and brush all the negatives under the rug - and condemn anyone who says differently.

Rather than looking at the problems of the past and finding ways of fixing them so they do not continue to be problems.

I think that fixing those problems is NOT in any way thinking only negative things about America - but rather using the love of not only what America is but can be to make it a better place. Putting blinders on is not helpful - it allows those problems to continue to affect our great nation.

PB would rather make that attempt at making America better nothing but a negative.

That’s of course not what I said.

I said, Democrats risk being seen as Debbie Downers, constantly promoting the negatives of America, but never the positives.

If all you ever did was listen to AOC, does she ever talk of any successful entrepreneur in America? I hear her complaints, about police, the military, white people, patriarchy, Desantis, capitalism, etc. I mean, she seems like a leader of the Dems, yet all she’s known for is complaining.

Wait----so you're telling us that your Right Wing Media feed tells you that AOC just complains all the time. And as usual, you pretend that you're dumb enough to fall for that?

Hey Pete, let's look at the last few tweets from AOC.

Let's see..... "Wishing a Happy Easter to everyone celebrating in NY-14! We hope you’re able to spend this joyous and blessed day with loved ones."

Wow, that's some negative commie stuff there, Petey. And what's that? Sending Conservative messages about Easter, Pete? You told us that they didn't allow that on Twitter! Well....I'm sure they'll delete it soon enough.

What's next.... "To all those observing, our office wishes you a blessed and peaceful Good Friday." Uh-oh. More right wing tweets. And boy, she sure is negative nelly. No wonder no one likes here.

And her "Pinned Tweet"? Ever wonder what a congressional district office does? This year, our constituent liaisons opened 1,800 cases, helping our neighbors in The Bronx and Queens navigate federal services like stimulus checks, immigration filings, PPP loans, Social Security, Medicare, and more.
Boy, she just can't stop with the negative stuff, can she, Pete?

It goes on like this in April, with more negative Right Wing tweets...horrible, mean messages to all the people who live in her district

Wishing our Bengali community in NY-14 a Happy Bengali New Year! We hope everyone celebrating is able to spend this auspicious and joyous day with their loved ones. Shubho Noboborsho!

We hope this Passover brings prosperity and happiness to all who are celebrating in NY-14 and around the world. Chag Sameach!


Man, you're right Pete. She's relentless with her negativity....and must be stopped!

[RedFromMI]

afan did a great job of responding to PB...

Charles Blow on Twitter this morning:

During the summer of protests after the murder of George Floyd, millions of ppl - including incredible numbers of white kids - marched in defense of black lives. This shook the white conservative establishment to its core. In their minds their children had been indoctrinated.

All of the CRT panic, book banning and anti-protest laws are a direct response to this. They are trying to push white children’s exposure to - and sympathy for - racial issues back to the dark ages of Jim Crow ignorance. It is a simple as it is shocking.

The Rs really are pushing those positive vibes...

[Peter Brown]

So the PB approach is to only see the positives and brush all the negatives under the rug - and condemn anyone who says differently.

Rather than looking at the problems of the past and finding ways of fixing them so they do not continue to be problems.

I think that fixing those problems is NOT in any way thinking only negative things about America - but rather using the love of not only what America is but can be to make it a better place. Putting blinders on is not helpful - it allows those problems to continue to affect our great nation.

PB would rather make that attempt at making America better nothing but a negative.

That’s of course not what I said.

I said, Democrats risk being seen as Debbie Downers, constantly promoting the negatives of America, but never the positives.

If all you ever did was listen to AOC, does she ever talk of any successful entrepreneur in America? I hear her complaints, about police, the military, white people, patriarchy, Desantis, capitalism, etc. I mean, she seems like a leader of the Dems, yet all she’s known for is complaining.

Wait----so you're telling us that your Right Wing Media feed tells you that AOC just complains all the time. And as usual, you pretend that you're dumb enough to fall for that?

Hey Pete, let's look at the last few tweets from AOC.

Let's see..... "Wishing a Happy Easter to everyone celebrating in NY-14! We hope you’re able to spend this joyous and blessed day with loved ones."

Wow, that's some negative commie stuff there, Petey. And what's that? Sending Conservative messages about Easter, Pete? You told us that they didn't allow that on Twitter! Well....I'm sure they'll delete it soon enough.

What's next.... "To all those observing, our office wishes you a blessed and peaceful Good Friday." Uh-oh. More right wing tweets. And boy, she sure is negative nelly. No wonder no one likes here.

And her "Pinned Tweet"? Ever wonder what a congressional district office does? This year, our constituent liaisons opened 1,800 cases, helping our neighbors in The Bronx and Queens navigate federal services like stimulus checks, immigration filings, PPP loans, Social Security, Medicare, and more.
Boy, she just can't stop with the negative stuff, can she, Pete?

It goes on like this in April, with more negative Right Wing tweets...horrible, mean messages to all the people who live in her district

Wishing our Bengali community in NY-14 a Happy Bengali New Year! We hope everyone celebrating is able to spend this auspicious and joyous day with their loved ones. Shubho Noboborsho!

We hope this Passover brings prosperity and happiness to all who are celebrating in NY-14 and around the world. Chag Sameach!


Man, you're right Pete. She's relentless with her negativity....and must be stopped!

You mean her Twitter feed isn’t the perma-negative like her real life?!? Say it ain’t so, Alexandra! I thought Twitter was real life!!

(maybe try googling news on AOC)

[a fan]

You mean her Twitter feed isn’t the perma-negative like her real life?!? Say it ain’t so, Alexandra! I thought Twitter was real life!!

(maybe try googling news on AOC)

Every time I think you can't pretend to be more stupid....you outdo yourself.

So todays game is: you want to pretend you're so dumb that you think the FoxNation edit of what AOC says, is the same thing as what AOC actually says. And when I give you, you know, what AOC actually communicates to her voters, you dismiss this.....and pretend that FoxNews is the far better source for what AOC says to her base.



And you want to continue to pretend you're so mind numbingly stupid that you believe that FoxNation is the correct judge as to what AOC says to her voters?

Sell your "I'm a mouth breathing moron" act somewhere else, Petey. Take a day off, and hit the showers.

[Peter Brown]

You mean her Twitter feed isn’t the perma-negative like her real life?!? Say it ain’t so, Alexandra! I thought Twitter was real life!!

(maybe try googling news on AOC)

Every time I think you can't pretend to be more stupid....you outdo yourself.

So todays game is: you want to pretend you're so dumb that you think the FoxNation edit of what AOC says, is the same thing as what AOC actually says. And when I give you, you know, what AOC actually communicates to her voters, you dismiss this.....and pretend that FoxNews is the far better source for what AOC says to her base.

And you want to continue to pretend you're so mind numbingly stupid that you believe that FoxNation is the correct judge as to what AOC says to her voters?

Sell your "I'm a mouth breathing moron" act somewhere else, Petey. Take a day off, and hit the showers.

Google is “FoxNation”?

The more you know!!

[a fan]

You mean her Twitter feed isn’t the perma-negative like her real life?!? Say it ain’t so, Alexandra! I thought Twitter was real life!!

(maybe try googling news on AOC)

Every time I think you can't pretend to be more stupid....you outdo yourself.

So todays game is: you want to pretend you're so dumb that you think the FoxNation edit of what AOC says, is the same thing as what AOC actually says. And when I give you, you know, what AOC actually communicates to her voters, you dismiss this.....and pretend that FoxNews is the far better source for what AOC says to her base.

And you want to continue to pretend you're so mind numbingly stupid that you believe that FoxNation is the correct judge as to what AOC says to her voters?

Sell your "I'm a mouth breathing moron" act somewhere else, Petey. Take a day off, and hit the showers.

Google is “FoxNation”?

The more you know!!

Boy, you just keep upping the pretend stupidity.

Dude-----you're REALLY pretending to be so dumb that you're going to pretend you don't know that Google tailors your searches and what you see based on all your computer habits? Google is showing Pete what you have told Google you want to see.

Congratulations, you're the last person on Earth to figure out how Google works. You're welcome.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Maybe the “stupidity” isn’t “pretend.”

[MDlaxfan76]

CRT (& assoc. cultural Marxism) teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable.

Some can't control America like they want, so they know they must completely divide it.

How do you tell your voter base that you're playing them for fools....while pretending that this statement applies to "the other side"?

They're not going to pee on your leg, and tell you it's raining Pete. They're going to pee on your leg, look you in the eye, and tell you they're peeing on your leg.

Takes a special mind to cheer on the team that's peeing on your leg, Pete! Nice job!

Good thing your State is "saved" from the menace that's CRT. You're all set now.

I'd like to understand the basis for the claim that CRT "teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable."

My understanding is that the message is quite the opposite, a call for positive action to address the institutional/legal biases that remain part of the system as a result of our history.

The first part of the statement, however, feels true...I'd also like to understand the objection to that portion...was America not "fundamentally flawed" at its "inception" as a result of slavery and related institutionalized realities? Or was it "perfect", in no need of improvement?

Are we really "past" these issues?

Sure looks to me like much of the populist GOP is not.

The author of the 1619 project states in her hypothesis that the US was fundamentally flawed before their even was a United States. Her hypothesis would be much more interesting if she took it back 4000 years and studied the history of slavery since man started walking around on 2 legs. Slavery didn't begin in 1619 and in many forms it still exists today. I also understand that in 1000s of years of world history there was only one time that a country fought a bloody war to end slavery. What was that country again?? This country is far from perfect and improving racial inequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward.

When did slavery in America start, cradle?

How much earlier would you begin an American History class?

I quite agree that "This country is far from perfect and improving racial inequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward."

I think that's the point. But some wish to deny this historical reality and wish to actually move backward, not forward, or at a minimum to freeze any forward movement in terms of equality or inequities.

For them, any effort to grapple with our history in a clear-eyed, yes "critical", way is considered a threat to the status quo 'balance'.

[MDlaxfan76]

Then the 1619 project needs to be discussed. It is an attempt by one author to rewrite Americ isan history. IMO the 1619 project deserves a thread all its own.

That's fine.

But what about the current standard, popular HS American History Textbooks? Are welcome going to fact check those, too? Check them for bias or glaring errors of omission?

Or do we start with the assumption that these textbooks are flawless, and ONLY look at the 1619 Project. If we hold all these books to the same standard? Sign me up.

But the clear place to start is to examine what books are ACTUALLY being used in American High Schools first. I think folks would be surprised by the problems in those books.

The 64 thousand dollar question is how do you go about reevaluating the history of our nation in a factual and unbiased manner? To do so the folks doing the reevaluating would have to be neutral and unbiased and only interested in the facts.Good luck finding those individuals. If the people in charge of updating US history have their own preconceived notions and bias their mission is doomed from the start. I use the 1619 project as one example. It is a fascinating theory but when the author uses it as her basis to slam a country that was 150 plus years away from being born. There is a problem there in my opinion. How many school kids are being thought that the 1619 project is a factual look at history and not the authors opinion? It never ceases to amaze me how so many folks put the bright spotlight at what we have done wrong as Americans and completely overlook all that our nation has done right. I am all for teaching kids about the history of slavery in this world. The history of slavery in the world should be thought in the proper context, that would be from its earliest know start. It becomes very complex very quickly. I do know that it didn't begin in 1619 and I do know that the United States of America was the only nation in 1000s of years to actually do something to end the scourge of slavery. There is no doubt our nation has made many mistakes along the way. It is fair to say that by and large as a nation we have learned from our mistakes and keep moving forward how ever slowly our nation does so.

Really???
We've been over this before...what year did Great Britain outlaw slavery? 1807 in Britain, 1833 throughout most of the British Empire.

Indeed, most every European nation banned the slave trade prior to the US doing so.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-slav ... 4920070322

[cradleandshoot]

CRT (& assoc. cultural Marxism) teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable.

Some can't control America like they want, so they know they must completely divide it.

How do you tell your voter base that you're playing them for fools....while pretending that this statement applies to "the other side"?

They're not going to pee on your leg, and tell you it's raining Pete. They're going to pee on your leg, look you in the eye, and tell you they're peeing on your leg.

Takes a special mind to cheer on the team that's peeing on your leg, Pete! Nice job!

Good thing your State is "saved" from the menace that's CRT. You're all set now.

I'd like to understand the basis for the claim that CRT "teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable."

My understanding is that the message is quite the opposite, a call for positive action to address the institutional/legal biases that remain part of the system as a result of our history.

The first part of the statement, however, feels true...I'd also like to understand the objection to that portion...was America not "fundamentally flawed" at its "inception" as a result of slavery and related institutionalized realities? Or was it "perfect", in no need of improvement?

Are we really "past" these issues?

Sure looks to me like much of the populist GOP is not.

The author of the 1619 project states in her hypothesis that the US was fundamentally flawed before their even was a United States. Her hypothesis would be much more interesting if she took it back 4000 years and studied the history of slavery since man started walking around on 2 legs. Slavery didn't begin in 1619 and in many forms it still exists today. I also understand that in 1000s of years of world history there was only one time that a country fought a bloody war to end slavery. What was that country again?? This country is far from perfect and improving racial looinequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward.

When did slavery in America start, cradle?

How much earlier would you begin an American History class?

I quite agree that "This country is far from perfect and improving racial inequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward."

I think that's the point. But some wish to deny this historical reality and wish to actually move backward, not forward, or at a minimum to freeze any forward movement in terms of equality or inequities.

For them, any effort to grapple with our history in a clear-eyed, yes "critical", way is considered a threat to the status quo 'balance'.

Slavery started in the Americas in 1619. If you accept that date when slaves from Africa first arrived in America. Slavery has been with us for 1000s of years. It get pretty sticky MD when you study the history of where the European slave traders unearthed all these export slaves. Many of them were discards of different tribes in African that had beaten these enemies down. What easier way to get rid of their problem than to ship it off to white Europeans. So those victorious African tribes have no guilt in feeding the slavery pipeline off to America. It was a win/win for all parties involved. Not to bust your balls MD but your relatives were slave holders and had much to to with the success you enjoy today. It is no wonder you have an industrial strength case of guilt. My relatives from way back when were trying to kill your relatives. My relatives won. What you espouse here here is white guilt. You could make it all better by opening up your big fat rich white guy check book and making your own personal restitution to the African American slaves YOUR kin used and abused. I'm hoping your enough of a man to have already done so. That is your personal business that you decide.

[MDlaxfan76]

CRT (& assoc. cultural Marxism) teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable.

Some can't control America like they want, so they know they must completely divide it.

How do you tell your voter base that you're playing them for fools....while pretending that this statement applies to "the other side"?

They're not going to pee on your leg, and tell you it's raining Pete. They're going to pee on your leg, look you in the eye, and tell you they're peeing on your leg.

Takes a special mind to cheer on the team that's peeing on your leg, Pete! Nice job!

Good thing your State is "saved" from the menace that's CRT. You're all set now.

I'd like to understand the basis for the claim that CRT "teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable."

My understanding is that the message is quite the opposite, a call for positive action to address the institutional/legal biases that remain part of the system as a result of our history.

The first part of the statement, however, feels true...I'd also like to understand the objection to that portion...was America not "fundamentally flawed" at its "inception" as a result of slavery and related institutionalized realities? Or was it "perfect", in no need of improvement?

Are we really "past" these issues?

Sure looks to me like much of the populist GOP is not.

The author of the 1619 project states in her hypothesis that the US was fundamentally flawed before their even was a United States. Her hypothesis would be much more interesting if she took it back 4000 years and studied the history of slavery since man started walking around on 2 legs. Slavery didn't begin in 1619 and in many forms it still exists today. I also understand that in 1000s of years of world history there was only one time that a country fought a bloody war to end slavery. What was that country again?? This country is far from perfect and improving racial looinequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward.

When did slavery in America start, cradle?

How much earlier would you begin an American History class?

I quite agree that "This country is far from perfect and improving racial inequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward."

I think that's the point. But some wish to deny this historical reality and wish to actually move backward, not forward, or at a minimum to freeze any forward movement in terms of equality or inequities.

For them, any effort to grapple with our history in a clear-eyed, yes "critical", way is considered a threat to the status quo 'balance'.

Slavery started in the Americas in 1619. If you accept that date when slaves from Africa first arrived in America. Slavery has been with us for 1000s of years. It get pretty sticky MD when you study the history of where the European slave traders unearthed all these export slaves. Many of them were discards of different tribes in African that had beaten these enemies down. What easier way to get rid of their problem than to ship it off to white Europeans. So those victorious African tribes have no guilt in feeding the slavery pipeline off to America. It was a win/win for all parties involved. Not to bust your balls MD but your relatives were slave holders and had much to to with the success you enjoy today. It is no wonder you have an industrial strength case of guilt. My relatives from way back when were trying to kill your relatives. My relatives won. What you espouse here here is white guilt. You could make it all better by opening up your big fat rich white guy check book and making your own personal restitution to the African American slaves YOUR kin used and abused. I'm hoping your enough of a man to have already done so. That is your personal business that you decide.

Yes, I have ancestors on both sides of the Civil War, heck I probably have ancestors on both sides of the Revolution for all I know. Some were slave holders, best I can tell...as I've previously noted, some of my mom's ancestors were very likely in the KKK.

But no, I don't have an ounce of "guilt" over what my ancestors did or did not do, and I've always considered it the whiners who suggest such to be the case.

My own economic advantages are indeed, of course, complex, but the vast majority of such was due to my immediate parents' financial success and commitments to education rather than prior generations as very little was passed down to them other than the emphasis on education...though they did certainly live in a society in which they had some relative advantages by virtue of circumstance of birth...but I don't feel guilty, merely fortunate.

Never made sense to me that I wouldn't want others to have the same good fortune.

[Peter Brown]

CRT (& assoc. cultural Marxism) teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable.

Some can't control America like they want, so they know they must completely divide it.

How do you tell your voter base that you're playing them for fools....while pretending that this statement applies to "the other side"?

They're not going to pee on your leg, and tell you it's raining Pete. They're going to pee on your leg, look you in the eye, and tell you they're peeing on your leg.

Takes a special mind to cheer on the team that's peeing on your leg, Pete! Nice job!

Good thing your State is "saved" from the menace that's CRT. You're all set now.

I'd like to understand the basis for the claim that CRT "teaches that America was fundamentally flawed from its inception and is irredeemable."

My understanding is that the message is quite the opposite, a call for positive action to address the institutional/legal biases that remain part of the system as a result of our history.

The first part of the statement, however, feels true...I'd also like to understand the objection to that portion...was America not "fundamentally flawed" at its "inception" as a result of slavery and related institutionalized realities? Or was it "perfect", in no need of improvement?

Are we really "past" these issues?

Sure looks to me like much of the populist GOP is not.

The author of the 1619 project states in her hypothesis that the US was fundamentally flawed before their even was a United States. Her hypothesis would be much more interesting if she took it back 4000 years and studied the history of slavery since man started walking around on 2 legs. Slavery didn't begin in 1619 and in many forms it still exists today. I also understand that in 1000s of years of world history there was only one time that a country fought a bloody war to end slavery. What was that country again?? This country is far from perfect and improving racial looinequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward.

When did slavery in America start, cradle?

How much earlier would you begin an American History class?

I quite agree that "This country is far from perfect and improving racial inequities in our country is something we still struggle with. At least we live in a country that is always working to move forward."

I think that's the point. But some wish to deny this historical reality and wish to actually move backward, not forward, or at a minimum to freeze any forward movement in terms of equality or inequities.

For them, any effort to grapple with our history in a clear-eyed, yes "critical", way is considered a threat to the status quo 'balance'.

Slavery started in the Americas in 1619. If you accept that date when slaves from Africa first arrived in America. Slavery has been with us for 1000s of years. It get pretty sticky MD when you study the history of where the European slave traders unearthed all these export slaves. Many of them were discards of different tribes in African that had beaten these enemies down. What easier way to get rid of their problem than to ship it off to white Europeans. So those victorious African tribes have no guilt in feeding the slavery pipeline off to America. It was a win/win for all parties involved. Not to bust your balls MD but your relatives were slave holders and had much to to with the success you enjoy today. It is no wonder you have an industrial strength case of guilt. My relatives from way back when were trying to kill your relatives. My relatives won. What you espouse here here is white guilt. You could make it all better by opening up your big fat rich white guy check book and making your own personal restitution to the African American slaves YOUR kin used and abused. I'm hoping your enough of a man to have already done so. That is your personal business that you decide.

Yes, I have ancestors on both sides of the Civil War, heck I probably have ancestors on both sides of the Revolution for all I know. Some were slave holders, best I can tell...as I've previously noted, some of my mom's ancestors were very likely in the KKK.

But no, I don't have an ounce of "guilt" over what my ancestors did or did not do, and I've always considered it the whiners who suggest such to be the case.

My own economic advantages are indeed, of course, complex, but the vast majority of such was due to my immediate parents' financial success and commitments to education rather than prior generations as very little was passed down to them other than the emphasis on education...though they did certainly live in a society in which they had some relative advantages by virtue of circumstance of birth...but I don't feel guilty, merely fortunate.

Never made sense to me that I wouldn't want others to have the same good fortune.

This post is strong evidence that you have no idea what the proponents of CRT are after. Robin D’Angelo (you’ve likely heard her name here for the first time even though she’s one of if not the leader of CRT/DEI) famously says:

“White people should be regarded not as individuals but as an undifferentiated racist collective, socialized to “ ‘fundamentally hate blackness and to institutionalize that prejudice in politics and culture. People of color, by contrast, are almost entirely powerless, and the few with influence do not wield it in the service of racial justice.”

Your ignorance of the DEI/CRT sect enables them to do serious damage to this country.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm not a fan of DiAngelo's oversimplification of "White Fragility" but do not condemn the effort to identify and even 'name' the constructs that reinforce bigotry in our country. Indeed, I agree with much of the core thesis of that book.

Nor would I let a particular disagreement with a single author/researcher get in the way of recognizing the BS bigotry of the immediate poster, nor that of a-holes like DeSantis. Indeed, it's crystal clear.

Want to read a critical review of "White Fragility"? Here's a pretty fair one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... is-flawed/

[Peter Brown]

I'm not a fan of DiAngelo's oversimplification of "White Fragility" but do not condemn the effort to identify and even 'name' the constructs that reinforce bigotry in our country. Indeed, I agree with much of the core thesis of that book.

Nor would I let a particular disagreement with a single author/researcher get in the way of recognizing the BS bigotry of the immediate poster, nor that of a-holes like DeSantis. Indeed, it's crystal clear.

Want to read a critical review of "White Fragility"? Here's a pretty fair one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... is-flawed/

If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.

Thomas Sowell

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm also not a fan of Sowell's oversimplifications.

Clever wordsmith, though.

But it's an entirely false simplification. Sowell never was a "radical", nor a "liberal"...nor is he a "racist" today.

Anyone asking for equal treatment under the law 60 years ago was not a "radical", indeed that passed with majorities.

But sure, those opposing such were indeed "racists" and indeed, those that today wish to pretend that they are simply asking for 'equal treatment' are just bullish-tting about their own unwillingness to recognize the inherent inequalities and inequities that email under supposed 'equal treatment'. Are they "racists"? Well...

[cradleandshoot]

I'm not a fan of DiAngelo's oversimplification of "White Fragility" but do not condemn the effort to identify and even 'name' the constructs that reinforce bigotry in our country. Indeed, I agree with much of the core thesis of that book.

Nor would I let a particular disagreement with a single author/researcher get in the way of recognizing the BS bigotry of the immediate poster, nor that of a-holes like DeSantis. Indeed, it's crystal clear.

Want to read a critical review of "White Fragility"? Here's a pretty fair one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... is-flawed/

I'm guessing that if he is the nominee that DeSantis might not get your vote?? Tough times for a lifelong Republican. Your party frowns on your Casper milquetoast moderate approach . Hell the only Republican as of today that would lose to Biden would be Mittens. I have to wonder, could RD eff things up as much as Biden has done in a year and a half? The worst nightmare the Democrats face is Biden running for a second term. As a lifelong Republican, fortunately a malady I have never had to endure, I bet your drywall repair guy is on speed dial from continually running your head through the wall. I hope by now you know where all the studs are?