LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:52 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:40 am An attorney for the whistleblower who raised the alarm about President Trump’s communications with Ukraine said Sunday that “multiple” whistleblowers have come forward.
The news, which comes as House Democrats have launched an impeachment inquiry and are subpoenaing the White House for documents, adds to the deepening political crisis facing the president.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Seems like multiple career professionals in the intelligence community are coming forward to offer evidence against Trump.

If your own intelligence agents are warning you about the president, maybe it’s time to put the nation above one’s own racism, bigotry, and misogyny and support the patriotic effort to impeach and remove Trump from office.

DocBarrister

While I agree with your fundamental point, Doc, your last sentence is very off-putting, indeed counter productive. Those who are truly racist, bigoted, misogynists will not be able to perceive removal of Trump as a priority, patriotic or otherwise. That's ok.

But those who simply hoped that Trump would shake things up, yet ultimately behave rationally and dare we say it, Presidentially, can be reached. Are there enough of these to make a sufficient difference? I sure hope so.

The door needs to be open, indeed welcoming.

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:42 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:26 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:13 am Much like schiffs (non)facts and TWP giving him 4 Pinocchio's. https://www.instagram.com/p/B3N1KnkHnay ... dF7b3gwo0/

I posted the article a few days ago. Schiff appears to have dissembled a bit about his committee's interactions with the whistleblower. He didn't use the slow-walking or withholding of appropriated dollars as a carrot to euchre cheap political favors out of a vulnerable foreign leader for his reelection campaign. But sure, bad boy Adam.

Bottom line, Schiff lied and significantly bamboozled the world with his theatrical antics. And he is in charge of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He apparently likes playing #whackamole

Baloney; you relentlessly miss the "bottom line," YA, which is that the right is simply sanguine about a President who is abusing the powers and dignity of the office, after excoriating the prior President and administration for putting a binder clip on legislation. How about the rule of law and the country first for a while?

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:28 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:25 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:11 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:08 am

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:33 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:03 pm Trump cutting NSA staff.

Oh yeah. No problems here. Let's get rid of the CIA and FBI while we're at it.....and anyone else who was mean to Trump.

Excited to hear the spin when people start getting killed because of this stuff. It's not like we have to worry about terrorism, or threats to our

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... RKFfd_2CRI

Have you read Bill Burns book yet ?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/17/th ... diplomacy/
Burns recounts how the NSC grew in size and influence during his 30 years in government. It frequently crowds out the diplomatic voices coming from the State Department, as happened during deliberations surrounding the expansion of NATO and the war in Iraq.

So now Trump read this book, and that's why he did it? (I know you're not saying that)

Appreciate the optimism, but seeing as how Jared Kushner is the "diplomatic voice", I'm going with a hard pass on NSA firings.

How will the nation survive without propellerheads like Ben Rhodes, Evelyn Farkas & Elise Jordan whispering in the CinC's ear (& leaking to the media).

I thought the conflict you were describing was over the 'militarization' of national security, as opposed to the diplomatic corps of State holding sway.

Are Rhodes, Farkas, and Jordan part of that 'militarization'?

You do realize that Trump simply wants to neuter all expertise and professionalism in government, including the IC?
""I'm smarter than the generals".

Burns complaint was that a bloated NSC, dominated by political hacks & academics, with little real world national security or diplomatic experience overseas, due to acess, was marginalizing State, DoD, DNI & DHS in the traditional decision making process.

Burns served at all levels of both State & the NSC.

I haven't read his book, but this is how the article you link characterized it:

Burns, the assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs, composed four pages that he later handed to Secretary of State Colin Powell, outlining ideas for the “imaginative and hard-nosed diplomacy” necessary to drain the Middle East of the terrorism that had now reached the United States. Burns’s advice was prescient; its rejection by the White House, Congress, and much of the American public reveals the debilitating “militarization of diplomacy”—the subject of Burns’s compelling memoir, The Back Channel.

“What was unfolding,” Burns writes, “was less a clash of civilizations than a clash within a civilization, a deeply battered Islamic world in the midst of a desperate ideological struggle. There were limits to what we could do directly to shape that debate. What we could do, however, was to help create a sense of geopolitical order that would deprive extremists of the oxygen they needed to fan the flames of chaos, and give moderate forces the sustained support they needed to demonstrate that they could deliver for their people.”

.. ...the topic is the role & growth of the NSC. I pointed out Burn's thoughts on that issue.

Actually, the topic, I thought anyway, was Trump removing people from the NSC staff, supposedly to make it leaner. I really doubt the folks Trump is removing are the folks to which Burns was objecting. So Burns's book is probably the red herring here, no?

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:09 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:50 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:01 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:51 pm

foreverlax wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:33 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:23 pm

ggait wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:46 pm

wahoomurf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:14 pm Please listen...CAREFULLY...to U.S. Senator Marco Rubio's (R-Florida) fascinating comment.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/201 ... a-vpx.wfor

The ultimate bull shirt.

"Russia -- if you can hear me, please hack the Democrats."

That's illegal. Per Rubio, though, it isn't. Because it wasn't a real request. It was just a joke. So it doesn't count.

Only problem is that the Russians (and the Ukes and the Chinese) didn't think/know it was a joke. They all acted in response to the "jokes." Why? Because the "jokes" look exactly like what "real" stuff would look like.

Much of the racist/crazy/stupid/gross/illegal stuff Trump says is later excused because he was just "joking." Even though no one except Trumpsters can tell the difference.

For some reason, only Trump toadies have the secret de-coder ring (which only works if the cover-up mode has been activated) to tell when the leader of the free world is in stand-up comic mode. Such a modern meta problem we have. Trump is just so tragically mis-understood.

The even better one is Chris Christie.

Before the Uke transcript comes out, Christie on ABC TV tape says it would only be a problem if Trump said something like "could you do me a favor?" After the transcript comes out, Christie says the "favor" line would only be a problem if Christie himself said it, because Christie would never talk that way. But Trump's a business guy, so no problem -- "that's just the way Trump talks and does business."

https://www.nj.com/politics/2019/09/chr ... talks.html

What the heck Chris?

Guy is running the country like he runs his schlocky businesses.

Chris says, that is just the way he is. Then he says he would never do that. He didn't say that it would be ok if he did it or if anyone else did it.

The sin of omission....the real question someone should ask him, "why wouldn't you do it Chris?

I told my hayseed friends this is what they would see. They knew him from TV...I tried to tell them. Awful human being with no morals, no ethics, no empathy and no conscience and self centered. Guy cares about Donald Trump and that’s it. Including his kids.

"Awful human being with no morals, no ethics, no empathy and no conscience and self centered."
Hell using that criteria Trump should have been a perfect fit in the land of Washington DC. I wonder where it all went wrong?

You believe Trump is of the same character as the Bush family? I worked with one of the Bush’s they are not that kind of people.

You must not have been on this board when GWB was president. He was disemboweled here on a daily basis. I believe the FLP group think was that GWB was a complete dumbass that could not tie his own shoes. After starting a war with Iraq the consensus of many folks here was that GWB had no morals. ethics, empathy and no conscience whatsoever. He was just protecting the interest of all of his big oil friends. Personally, I am not passing judgement on GWB. I am only informing you what the consensus opinion on this forum was. they even gave him that adorable nickname of shrub. Too bad you were not around to defend GWB at that time. Friends of GWB on the laxpower pages were few and far between.

For the record IMO Dubya is a very respectable and decent man. I would never suggest you say that openly on these pages... you may also find yourself trying to keep your innards from falling out.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:44 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:52 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:40 am An attorney for the whistleblower who raised the alarm about President Trump’s communications with Ukraine said Sunday that “multiple” whistleblowers have come forward.
The news, which comes as House Democrats have launched an impeachment inquiry and are subpoenaing the White House for documents, adds to the deepening political crisis facing the president.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Seems like multiple career professionals in the intelligence community are coming forward to offer evidence against Trump.

If your own intelligence agents are warning you about the president, maybe it’s time to put the nation above one’s own racism, bigotry, and misogyny and support the patriotic effort to impeach and remove Trump from office.

DocBarrister

While I agree with your fundamental point, Doc, your last sentence is very off-putting, indeed counter productive. Those who are truly racist, bigoted, misogynists will not be able to perceive removal of Trump as a priority, patriotic or otherwise. That's ok.

But those who simply hoped that Trump would shake things up, yet ultimately behave rationally and dare we say it, Presidentially, can be reached. Are there enough of these to make a sufficient difference? I sure hope so.

The door needs to be open, indeed welcoming.

I’m not discussing support of Trump in 2016 or even early in his presidency. I’m talking about NOW.

Those who can be rationally “reached” have already come over to oppose Trump (the 2018 midterm elections). Lots of those were suburban women and educated white males.

The Republican base that still remains with Trump (and probably always will) are those who support his racism, bigotry, and misogyny. Only thing left is to appeal to their patriotism. Considering how the Republican base has a weird fetish for Vladimir Putin, I am not optimistic.

Hate to say it, MDlax, but you’re trying to reach a group of voters who are already tapped out. The rational, non-bigoted Trump supporters who are at all “reachable” have already come over. What remains in Trump’s base are the true Deplorables. No need to be gentle with them.

DocBarrister

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:53 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:42 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:26 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:13 am Much like schiffs (non)facts and TWP giving him 4 Pinocchio's. https://www.instagram.com/p/B3N1KnkHnay ... dF7b3gwo0/

I posted the article a few days ago. Schiff appears to have dissembled a bit about his committee's interactions with the whistleblower. He didn't use the slow-walking or withholding of appropriated dollars as a carrot to euchre cheap political favors out of a vulnerable foreign leader for his reelection campaign. But sure, bad boy Adam.

Bottom line, Schiff lied and significantly bamboozled the world with his theatrical antics. And he is in charge of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He apparently likes playing #whackamole

Baloney; you relentlessly miss the "bottom line," YA, which is that the right is simply sanguine about a President who is abusing the powers and dignity of the office, after excoriating the prior President and administration for putting a binder clip on legislation. How about the rule of law and the country first for a while?

I agree about the dignity part and have openly admitted that. You are expanding the conversation at hand, we were solely speaking on Schiff and his lying and that MATTERS, as it relates to this impeachment inquiry.

I get you do not like Trump, neither do I. But I am not of the mindset to poo on everything....just because.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:58 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:44 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:52 am

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:40 am An attorney for the whistleblower who raised the alarm about President Trump’s communications with Ukraine said Sunday that “multiple” whistleblowers have come forward.
The news, which comes as House Democrats have launched an impeachment inquiry and are subpoenaing the White House for documents, adds to the deepening political crisis facing the president.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Seems like multiple career professionals in the intelligence community are coming forward to offer evidence against Trump.

If your own intelligence agents are warning you about the president, maybe it’s time to put the nation above one’s own racism, bigotry, and misogyny and support the patriotic effort to impeach and remove Trump from office.

DocBarrister

While I agree with your fundamental point, Doc, your last sentence is very off-putting, indeed counter productive. Those who are truly racist, bigoted, misogynists will not be able to perceive removal of Trump as a priority, patriotic or otherwise. That's ok.

But those who simply hoped that Trump would shake things up, yet ultimately behave rationally and dare we say it, Presidentially, can be reached. Are there enough of these to make a sufficient difference? I sure hope so.

The door needs to be open, indeed welcoming.

I’m not discussing support of Trump in 2016 or even early in his presidency. I’m talking about NOW.

Those who can be rationally “reached” have already come over to oppose Trump (the 2018 midterm elections). Lots of those were suburban women and educated white males.

The Republican base that still remains with Trump (and probably always will) are those who support his racism, bigotry, and misogyny. Only thing left is to appeal to their patriotism. Considering how the Republican base has a weird fetish for Vladimir Putin, I am not optimistic.

Hate to say it, MDlax, but you’re trying to reach a group of voters who are already tapped out. The rational, non-bigoted Trump supporters who are at all “reachable” have already come over. What remains in Trump’s base are the true Deplorables. No need to be gentle with them.

DocBarrister

I don't think you're correct, Doc.
I know some folks who've been stubbornly supporting Trump though more weakly at every turn given much of what you say. They're turned off. But they also don't like the Dems. Think they are too rigid, too arrogant, too elitist...and they worry about the economy. They are not going to become Dems.

I do agree that these remaining 'reachable' folks can be best reached through patriotic appeals...but if you wade in calling them racists, etc you don't give them a path to the middle.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:06 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:53 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:42 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:26 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:13 am Much like schiffs (non)facts and TWP giving him 4 Pinocchio's. https://www.instagram.com/p/B3N1KnkHnay ... dF7b3gwo0/

I posted the article a few days ago. Schiff appears to have dissembled a bit about his committee's interactions with the whistleblower. He didn't use the slow-walking or withholding of appropriated dollars as a carrot to euchre cheap political favors out of a vulnerable foreign leader for his reelection campaign. But sure, bad boy Adam.

Bottom line, Schiff lied and significantly bamboozled the world with his theatrical antics. And he is in charge of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He apparently likes playing #whackamole

Baloney; you relentlessly miss the "bottom line," YA, which is that the right is simply sanguine about a President who is abusing the powers and dignity of the office, after excoriating the prior President and administration for putting a binder clip on legislation. How about the rule of law and the country first for a while?

I agree about the dignity part and have openly admitted that. You are expanding the conversation at hand, we were solely speaking on Schiff and his lying and that MATTERS, as it relates to this impeachment inquiry.

I get you do not like Trump, neither do I. But I am not of the mindset to poo on everything....just because.

youth, you just poohed on Schiff pretty hard.
And you continue to ignore that Schiff was clear those were not Trump's actual words, he was paraphrasing for effect. Only a nit wit would actually not understand...or someone who didn't bother to watch the whole thing. Sure, if you only were to watch excerpts that Fox shows you, it's easy to misunderstand. But it's not what actually happened.

So, your "poo" is misplaced...indeed, saying that Schiff was "lying" appears to be a conscious repeat of something that is quite untrue. I think you know better. So, why do it?

We can agree that Schiff made a tactical mistake in resorting to paraphrase and parody to make his desired points, but to call it "lying" is just beyond the pale.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:29 pm It is NOT possible to support Trump NOW without being accepting, at least to some degree, of racism, bigotry, and misogyny.

Does anyone seriously dispute that?

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:42 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:29 pm It is NOT possible to support Trump NOW without being accepting, at least to some degree, of racism, bigotry, and misogyny.

Does anyone seriously dispute that?

I do. I could support Trump simply because he hasn't invaded a new country.

There are many reasons to support candidates, Doc.

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:06 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:53 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:42 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:26 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:13 am Much like schiffs (non)facts and TWP giving him 4 Pinocchio's. https://www.instagram.com/p/B3N1KnkHnay ... dF7b3gwo0/

I posted the article a few days ago. Schiff appears to have dissembled a bit about his committee's interactions with the whistleblower. He didn't use the slow-walking or withholding of appropriated dollars as a carrot to euchre cheap political favors out of a vulnerable foreign leader for his reelection campaign. But sure, bad boy Adam.

Bottom line, Schiff lied and significantly bamboozled the world with his theatrical antics. And he is in charge of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He apparently likes playing #whackamole

Baloney; you relentlessly miss the "bottom line," YA, which is that the right is simply sanguine about a President who is abusing the powers and dignity of the office, after excoriating the prior President and administration for putting a binder clip on legislation. How about the rule of law and the country first for a while?

I agree about the dignity part and have openly admitted that. You are expanding the conversation at hand, we were solely speaking on Schiff and his lying and that MATTERS, as it relates to this impeachment inquiry.

I get you do not like Trump, neither do I. But I am not of the mindset to poo on everything....just because.

youth, you just poohed on Schiff pretty hard.
And you continue to ignore that Schiff was clear those were not Trump's actual words, he was paraphrasing for effect. Only a nit wit would actually not understand...or someone who didn't bother to watch the whole thing. Sure, if you only were to watch excerpts that Fox shows you, it's easy to misunderstand. But it's not what actually happened.

So, your "poo" is misplaced...indeed, saying that Schiff was "lying" appears to be a conscious repeat of something that is quite untrue. I think you know better. So, why do it?

We can agree that Schiff made a tactical mistake in resorting to paraphrase and parody to make his desired points, but to call it "lying" is just beyond the pale.

The WP awarded Schiff 4 Pinocchios for his claims regarding his contacts with the WB,
not for his dramatic reading of his adaptation of the transcript

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:15 pm Doc is playing the same winner takes all game that has brought us to this place. He doesn’t wants a two party system, he wants everyone to agree with his positions. That’s been very clear over the years. Not as enlightened as one would think. Nice Harvard Club name drop though....

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:19 pm
Nope. Maybe you can support a policy here and there, but it is NOT possible to support Trump himself unless you at least accept some of his repugnant hatreds, biases, and prejudices.

Trinity wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:24 pm Remember when he was going to let Russia question Americans? Or Russo-American cyber-security? Free Paul Manafort.

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:06 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:53 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:42 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:34 pm

seacoaster wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:26 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:13 am Much like schiffs (non)facts and TWP giving him 4 Pinocchio's. https://www.instagram.com/p/B3N1KnkHnay ... dF7b3gwo0/

I posted the article a few days ago. Schiff appears to have dissembled a bit about his committee's interactions with the whistleblower. He didn't use the slow-walking or withholding of appropriated dollars as a carrot to euchre cheap political favors out of a vulnerable foreign leader for his reelection campaign. But sure, bad boy Adam.

Bottom line, Schiff lied and significantly bamboozled the world with his theatrical antics. And he is in charge of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. He apparently likes playing #whackamole

Baloney; you relentlessly miss the "bottom line," YA, which is that the right is simply sanguine about a President who is abusing the powers and dignity of the office, after excoriating the prior President and administration for putting a binder clip on legislation. How about the rule of law and the country first for a while?

I agree about the dignity part and have openly admitted that. You are expanding the conversation at hand, we were solely speaking on Schiff and his lying and that MATTERS, as it relates to this impeachment inquiry.

I get you do not like Trump, neither do I. But I am not of the mindset to poo on everything....just because.

youth, you just poohed on Schiff pretty hard.
And you continue to ignore that Schiff was clear those were not Trump's actual words, he was paraphrasing for effect. Only a nit wit would actually not understand...or someone who didn't bother to watch the whole thing. Sure, if you only were to watch excerpts that Fox shows you, it's easy to misunderstand. But it's not what actually happened.

So, your "poo" is misplaced...indeed, saying that Schiff was "lying" appears to be a conscious repeat of something that is quite untrue. I think you know better. So, why do it?

We can agree that Schiff made a tactical mistake in resorting to paraphrase and parody to make his desired points, but to call it "lying" is just beyond the pale.

The WP awarded Schiff 4 Pinocchios for his claims regarding his contacts with the WB,
not for his dramatic reading of his adaptation of the transcript

a fan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:39 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:19 pm
Nope. Maybe you can support a policy here and there, but it is NOT possible to support Trump himself unless you at least accept some of his repugnant hatreds, biases, and prejudices.

Logic fail.

The corollary is, if you support a candidate, it means you support every single position they have, without question or hesitation.

Sorry mate, that's not how it works.