Orange Duce

[youthathletics]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

What is your view?

I don't have one yet. I'm not familiar with the details & merits of the cases.
I'm interested to see what the Navy's review of the JAG Corps reveals &
what the Admin Board on Senior Chief Gallagher recommends.

just spitballing here....

This 'could' get dicey for military. Their honor code does not translate into a civilian court room, which makes it challenging to compare the two, legally speaking and from a civilian standpoint. I wonder is there is some type of controlled play going on to break down the often more demanding rules and regs in military life vs civilian life.

[seacoaster]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

From the first link:

"“The Navy follows the lawful orders of the President. We will do so in case of an order to stop the administrative review of SOC Gallagher’s professional qualification,” top Navy spokesman Rear Adm. Charlie Brown said in a late Thursday statement to USNI News.
“We are aware of the President’s tweet and we are awaiting further guidance.”

A White House spokesman did not respond to requests for comment from USNI News.

Gallagher’s lawyer told USNI News late Friday that Spencer’s comments were a sign the Navy was acting against the intent of President Trump.

“The secretary should not be citing ‘good order and discipline’ as a reason to disregard a clear directive from the commander-in-chief,” Timothy Parlatore told USNI News. “Moreover, the secretary should not be supporting such action when he has failed to ensure good order and discipline is applied across the board by holding [military] prosecutors and NCIS agents accountable for their criminal conduct in this case.”

So Gallagher's lawyer believes that the tweet constitutes a lawful order of the President. Anyone care to agree with that?

[Kismet]

I don't think USN thinks a tweet is a "lawful Presidential order" as they announced that the hearings for Gallagher and the others will proceed.

Will have to await the stable genius' next move

[DMac]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

I was actually confused by the question which is why I avoided it.
Discipline has more than one meaning. Being in the gym at 6 A.M. is a discipline, posture and precision of the soldier marching at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is a discipline. Following orders and playing within the rules is a discipline too, which is what I thought the question was about (the discipline of the unit). In that respect there is no differentiating, all "units" have to have that discipline or it just doesn't work. This question, as I see now, is about discipline as in spanking. Typically I'm pretty sympathetic toward a warrior who flips out a little in an environment that is unfathomable to most of us. Dehumanize your enemy, give a guy a gun and orders to kill, and schidt is going to happen. This has to be taken into consideration when it comes to discipline as defined here.
I'm not all that familiar with the Gallagher case either but I don't find it all that shocking that he posed with the dead body of a kill (and as I understand it, he didn't stab him in the neck for the final blow) like a hunter would with his big buck. Fortunately I never had any experience with the JAG corps or the military justice system so I'll just have to trust that they know what they're doing, but I sure as hell don't think Trump has any business sticking his nose in here.
As for taking Gallagher's Trident away, I'd have a mighty hard time doing that as I just have too much respect for anyone who had what it takes to earn that. Discipline him as is warranted under the UCMJ, but don't take his Trident away. JMHO.

[jhu72]

Looks to me like the military has escalated the fight. They obviously feel strongly about this as a threat to the institution. Trump as usual is wrong. I suspect the brass feels much like DMAC. They had done nothing to strip Tridents until forced to by the POS in Chief.

[seacoaster]

DMac, thanks for your thoughtful response. Exactly the kind of thing I was interested in reading.

[old salt]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

[SMAIN]

"The moment was part of a bizarre afternoon in Texas, where the president played up a 6-year-old factory as evidence of his 3-year-old presidency’s success in bringing manufacturing jobs back to the United States.

It showed Trump’s willingness to leverage his influence over U.S. companies in his pitch to voters that he deserves another four years in the White House. And it illustrated the complicated position that Cook and other corporate executives find themselves in with this president, forced to stand silently by while he sometimes misleads about their businesses.

After Trump departed the factory, he tweeted, “Today I opened a major Apple Manufacturing plant in Texas that will bring high paying jobs back to America.”
Top

Well cu88, a half million manufacturing jobs created since Trump waved his magic hand so what's the beef?

[seacoaster]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

Gee, I think you're overreacting. I have opinions, but I'm not so certain about things that I don't like hearing from other people. From my perspective, which I've confessed is outside of military service, the President's recent conduct seems precipitous (the pardons) and aggressive (the tweet warnings to the command). I was looking for some insight into whether I was right or wrong. I got a completely constructive response from DMac; from you, I get your prepackaged bile that you reserve for women and Democrats. Go walk your dog and cool off sailor.

[old salt]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

Gee, I think you're overreacting. I have opinions, but I'm not so certain about things that I don't like hearing from other people. From my perspective, which I've confessed is outside of military service, the President's recent conduct seems precipitous (the pardons) and aggressive (the tweet warnings to the command). I was looking for some insight into whether I was right or wrong. I got a completely constructive response from DMac; from you, I get your prepackaged bile that you reserve for women and Democrats. Go walk your dog and cool off sailor.

BS. You were trolling & then playing crybaby when called on it.
You were taking a life & death issue & using it as a just another reason to bash Trump.
Before "crickets", you'd already posted this :

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

If I'd made a case for the accused, you'd say it was just to cover for Trump.
You have no clue what these warriors endure, or the agonizing decisions their senior officers sometimes have to make.
It's too serious an issue to be turned into just another anti-Trump spitball.

[MDlaxfan76]

"The moment was part of a bizarre afternoon in Texas, where the president played up a 6-year-old factory as evidence of his 3-year-old presidency’s success in bringing manufacturing jobs back to the United States.

It showed Trump’s willingness to leverage his influence over U.S. companies in his pitch to voters that he deserves another four years in the White House. And it illustrated the complicated position that Cook and other corporate executives find themselves in with this president, forced to stand silently by while he sometimes misleads about their businesses.

After Trump departed the factory, he tweeted, “Today I opened a major Apple Manufacturing plant in Texas that will bring high paying jobs back to America.”
Top

Well cu88, a half million manufacturing jobs created since Trump waved his magic hand so what's the beef?

Nah, we shouldn't care if Trump is lying in any given instance,

But to your actual point SMAIN, this little article may help your perspective a bit:
https://www.quora.com/Have-manufacturin ... on-Address

Be sure to actually read more than the opening paragraphs and first graph.

[seacoaster]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

Gee, I think you're overreacting. I have opinions, but I'm not so certain about things that I don't like hearing from other people. From my perspective, which I've confessed is outside of military service, the President's recent conduct seems precipitous (the pardons) and aggressive (the tweet warnings to the command). I was looking for some insight into whether I was right or wrong. I got a completely constructive response from DMac; from you, I get your prepackaged bile that you reserve for women and Democrats. Go walk your dog and cool off sailor.

BS. You were trolling & then playing crybaby when called on it.
You were taking a life & death issue & using it as a just another reason to bash Trump.
Before "crickets", you'd already posted this :

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

If I'd made a case for the accused, you'd say it was just to cover for Trump.
You have no clue what these warriors endure, or the agonizing decisions their senior officers sometimes have to make.
It's too serious an issue to be turned into just another anti-Trump spitball.

Nope. You are completely wrong. And you are wrong entirely for the reason you give: I have no clue what these warriors go through and what decisions they have to make. And remember, Kismet asked the question. But think whatever you’d like in your fortress of right.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

Gee, I think you're overreacting. I have opinions, but I'm not so certain about things that I don't like hearing from other people. From my perspective, which I've confessed is outside of military service, the President's recent conduct seems precipitous (the pardons) and aggressive (the tweet warnings to the command). I was looking for some insight into whether I was right or wrong. I got a completely constructive response from DMac; from you, I get your prepackaged bile that you reserve for women and Democrats. Go walk your dog and cool off sailor.

BS. You were trolling & then playing crybaby when called on it.
You were taking a life & death issue & using it as a just another reason to bash Trump.
Before "crickets", you'd already posted this :

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

If I'd made a case for the accused, you'd say it was just to cover for Trump.
You have no clue what these warriors endure, or the agonizing decisions their senior officers sometimes have to make.
It's too serious an issue to be turned into just another anti-Trump spitball.

I think it's fair to assume that it's 'complicated'.

But Trump sticking his nose into it, that's a much easier question to answer. Or should be unless one is a Trump apologist just for drill.
And on that, the reference to his claims to know more than the Generals falls pretty flat for ole bone spurs is quite apt.

[old salt]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

Gee, I think you're overreacting. I have opinions, but I'm not so certain about things that I don't like hearing from other people. From my perspective, which I've confessed is outside of military service, the President's recent conduct seems precipitous (the pardons) and aggressive (the tweet warnings to the command). I was looking for some insight into whether I was right or wrong. I got a completely constructive response from DMac; from you, I get your prepackaged bile that you reserve for women and Democrats. Go walk your dog and cool off sailor.

BS. You were trolling & then playing crybaby when called on it.
You were taking a life & death issue & using it as a just another reason to bash Trump.
Before "crickets", you'd already posted this :

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

If I'd made a case for the accused, you'd say it was just to cover for Trump.
You have no clue what these warriors endure, or the agonizing decisions their senior officers sometimes have to make.
It's too serious an issue to be turned into just another anti-Trump spitball.

I think it's fair to assume that it's 'complicated'.

But Trump sticking his nose into it, that's a much easier question to answer. Or should be unless one is a Trump apologist just for drill.
And on that, the reference to his claims to know more than the Generals falls pretty flat for ole bone spurs is quite apt.

The way Gallagher's case fell apart at Court Martial raises the question about whether it should have been brought.
Navy JAG is under scrutiny for other cases, as is the Special Warfare community.
Take off your TDS goggles. Concern yourself with your local prosecutor & the Freddie Gray case,

[Trinity]

NYT: "The secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if plans to expel a commando from the elite unit in a war crimes case are halted by President Trump"

[SMAIN]

Have manufacturing jobs actually increased in the USA under President Trump administration as he stated in his 2019 State of The Union Address?

Gee mdlaxfan76, the above is the the title of your article.... a little out dated you think?

[MDlaxfan76]

Have manufacturing jobs actually increased in the USA under President Trump administration as he stated in his 2019 State of The Union Address?

Gee mdlaxfan76, the above is the the title of your article.... a little out dated you think?

Did you bother to read it?

Actually look at the graphs?

Message is entirely accurate whether Jan '19 or November '19.

After you read it, let me know what you think.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd be interested in the view of some of the Navy and other military branch vets on this issue especially in terms of command discipline in elite units. Word is some very senior naval officers might be resigning or even relieved before it is over.

Crickets?

Daddy, daddy, are we home yet ?
I rarely check this thread anymore -- too predictable.
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/22/secnav ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/11/21/presid ... view-board
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/05/navy-m ... -jag-corps
https://news.usni.org/2019/08/22/secnav ... -community

From the guy who tells us not to be personal. Jeez. Thanks for the links anyway.

I am not familiar with the military system of justice or, more importantly, the mores of the Services as they actually relate to the civilian commander in chief. I thought Kismet's question was a good one.

Cricket this. Nobody owes you an answer.
You say you're unfamiliar, but you already expressed your verdict.
Why pretend you care what anyone else thinks ?

Gee, I think you're overreacting. I have opinions, but I'm not so certain about things that I don't like hearing from other people. From my perspective, which I've confessed is outside of military service, the President's recent conduct seems precipitous (the pardons) and aggressive (the tweet warnings to the command). I was looking for some insight into whether I was right or wrong. I got a completely constructive response from DMac; from you, I get your prepackaged bile that you reserve for women and Democrats. Go walk your dog and cool off sailor.

BS. You were trolling & then playing crybaby when called on it.
You were taking a life & death issue & using it as a just another reason to bash Trump.
Before "crickets", you'd already posted this :

He knows more than "his" Generals and Admirals.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/2 ... als-072417

If I'd made a case for the accused, you'd say it was just to cover for Trump.
You have no clue what these warriors endure, or the agonizing decisions their senior officers sometimes have to make.
It's too serious an issue to be turned into just another anti-Trump spitball.

I think it's fair to assume that it's 'complicated'.

But Trump sticking his nose into it, that's a much easier question to answer. Or should be unless one is a Trump apologist just for drill.
And on that, the reference to his claims to know more than the Generals falls pretty flat for ole bone spurs is quite apt.

The way Gallagher's case fell apart at Court Martial raises the question about whether it should have been brought.
Navy JAG is under scrutiny for other cases, as is the Special Warfare community.
Take off your TDS goggles. Concern yourself with your local prosecutor & the Freddie Gray case,

my TDS goggles...

[MDlaxfan76]

NYT: "The secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if plans to expel a commando from the elite unit in a war crimes case are halted by President Trump"

Exactly. No problem there.

Salty, I'm simply figuring that these folks know more than I do about the specifics.
Pretty good bet they know more than you, too.

But I'm the one with "TDS".

[old salt]

NYT: "The secretary of the Navy and the admiral who leads the SEALs have threatened to resign or be fired if plans to expel a commando from the elite unit in a war crimes case are halted by President Trump"

Exactly. No problem there.

Salty, I'm simply figuring that these folks know more than I do about the specifics.
Pretty good bet they know more than you, too.

But I'm the one with "TDS".

I've said I don't know enough of the facts to have an opinion.
...apparently that's not a hindrance for you whenever Trump is involved.