Cornell 2024

[joewillie78]

I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?

Midfield.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[Farfromgeneva]

I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?

Midfield.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Gracias

[Ezra White]

I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?

Midfield.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Gracias

Can this be part of the problem? We have fantastic attack, so people like Wirtheim and Firth are being asked to play midfield. There must be a learning curve.

Nonetheless, I think playing midfield is a great way to learn certain aspects of the game. And as someone said a few posts back, defensive middie may be the hardest position in the game.

[joewillie78]

I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?

Midfield.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Gracias

Can this be part of the problem? We have fantastic attack, so people like Wirtheim and Firth are being asked to play midfield. There must be a learning curve.

Nonetheless, I think playing midfield is a great way to learn certain aspects of the game. And as someone said a few posts back, defensive middie may be the hardest position in the game.

Sure, it could be, but I think most agree that the problem has been at the other end of the field. Cornells offense and attack is so deep, that some players are simply going to have to wait their turn or play out of position. Firth being a freshman has made the adjustment incredibly well.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[ChadCascadden]

'ChadC'
What I really liked about your post was the references to aggressiveness and team identity. While Adler is gone to graduation, THERE IS plenty of talent on this team. In retrospect, the boys did not have a good day & the coaches may not have had a great week in terms of game prep, but the seeming lack of aggressiveness, at least yesterday, stood out to me.

In regard to two observations/suggestions you made:
1) Running through picks instead of going underneath: In hoops, repeatedly going underneath picks is an absolute no-no (though it can be supported if a center effectively hedges and is able to recover). Lax is somewhat different, and runnig below picks was not the issue yesterday. The issue, time after time was a Very Poor job of coordinating on shows and doubles. The result was defenders getting caught in no man's land, unable to recover, or a late secondary slide leaving players uncovered or with lots of separation. Also, I want to review PSU goal highlights - my guess is that our defenders just aren't ACTIVELY using their sticks. So many hands free shots.
Additionally, Penn State's offense is very similar to that of Tambroni (as CU's HC), Milliman, and Coach B's - lots of ball movement, lots of player movement/cutting and redodges. Their dodges are more horizontal (reminds me of Princeton) than Cornell's north-south stuff. Defenders can afford to go underneath picks. But the communication and coordination MUST be there.
These comments aside, physical toughness was an issue yesterday (though it wasn't vs. Denver). 'Certainly don't want the "rep" as a finesse team.
2) Running the offense through CJ: Maybe we're thinking the same thing, but saying it differently. The offense typically runs through Long, rather than Kirst or is initiated via a north-south dodge to get the defense moving. Running it through Kirst exclusively will only cause opposing defenses to focus more on him (doubles or quick slides). What we want to happen is for Kirst to get lots of good looks. I'd rather get him matched up on a ss or secondary pole via two-man games. As it is, this season I think he's been unable to go right and get underneath his man. Far more (the great majority) of the time it's been curls to his strong hand where his defender can get support. Note - Kirst had 9 shots yesterday, twice as many as anyone else except Firth.

***Equally important with x's and o's is the intangible of (desired) team identity...and making it a reality.
My hope is that yesterday was a learning experience for everyone involved and we'll see a very different product on the field next Sunday against a good Princeton team.

What VRR & Chad said makes lots of sense. I couldn't watch either of our two losses, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

I played club lacrosse in graduate school, and what's been said reminds me of one game in particular. Our coach was a very good lacrosse player, who'd played in high school & college (D2, I think). He usually stayed on the sideline, but in this game he played his usual position of attack. It was a disaster. The coach kept dodging against a D that wouldn't let him dodge. He ran great practices and was a terrific teacher, but he never ran drills with us. Consequently, when we were on offense there was no sense of team play in this particular game. It was every man for himself. IIRC, we lost by almost as much as Cornell lost to PSU.

This year Cornell seems to have similar issues on defense.

Chad's comments about being aggressive is important, but we have to be careful about penalties (it seems they're being called more tightly than in the past, and our man-down still needs lots of improvement), and we have to match our style with our personnel. (E.g., don't expect 5'9" - 145# Goldstein to run through too many picks. Maybe in a year or two, when he's 5'10" & 175# and all muscle. Firth is 5'9" & 165#.) This shouldn't mean our more talented but less physically intimidating player should never get on the field: we just have to develop an identity and style that maximizes the personnel we have, which may mean pairing players that compliment each other.

I'd be interested to know how we stack up against other teams statistically by size and weight.

As someone who has not viewed either of our 2 losses (I did listen to the DU game), I realize I'm talking through my hat a bit. But judging from what's been said, team defense seems to be the first item on the agenda. Tailoring individual roles within the team seems to be the second.

Love the comments: Thank you for responding to a novice.

That said : (INHO) running the offense through CJ does NOT mean he’s the point guard : that’s Long and it should be. My suggestion is that when you have a work horse like CJ, the offense should focus THROUGH him when struggling . And if the opportunity arises to go off script then do so. But when you struggle, you go to your workhorse and set the offense towards him. This reframes the atmosphere and then momentum typically follows. Eventually when things start to turn as momentum comes back your way you can then let the thrashing begin from other guys. Structure/Function matter. This offense is top 3. Very fun to watch and root for. This is the way. (Boba Fett)

Goalkeeping hasn’t been as bad as it seems but clearly needs to improve. Both can play.
Good problem to have. Defense improvement will help determine who’s best in goal.

FOs have been ok. Marc is scrappy and is keeping them in games. Very admirable but seems to tire out by middle of 3rd Q. Petrakis is very capable but needs more counters so he doesn’t depend on the quick clamp so much. That will build confidence so he doesnt need to always win the clamp and then get behind the count. They’re both needed to go deep into championship play. Haven’t seen enough from the freshman FO to comment.

Defensively they need to establish an identity. They don’t have one yet. Without Adler they need a leader to step up. By the way it’s not about size. Adler wasn’t the biggest guy but his presence was felt. A few inches/lbs here and there doesn’t matter. Toughness and grit shine through. Haven’t found it yet but I feel they will. This is a defensively talented team so they need to communicate and play aggressive and learn their strengths/weaknesses. Overly aggressive beats under aggressive. Dialing down is always easier than dialing up. But Identity NOW. There been enough time. Let’s go.

[I played for Coach Belichick where it took up to 4-5 games to “find our identity” on defense so I’m understanding defense can sometimes take time. Princeton game will be a measurement stick. I predict good things]

Coaching is very good. Support is very good. Players are bought in and love the program and alumni are the best.
Sometimes a good ol fashion ***kicking shows you the way. Let’s hope so.

[Trumansburger]

Sure, it could be, but I think most agree that the problem has been at the other end of the field. Cornells offense and attack is so deep, that some players are simply going to have to wait their turn or play out of position. Firth being a freshman has made the adjustment incredibly well.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Given the strength and depth of our attack it's been frustrating to see our inability to score on estra man opportunities. Converting at 28% (62nd NCAA) while teams like Notre Dame (77%) and Harvard (63%) are converting much higher. In our 2 losses, Big Red converted only 1 for 9.

[joewillie78]

Sure, it could be, but I think most agree that the problem has been at the other end of the field. Cornells offense and attack is so deep, that some players are simply going to have to wait their turn or play out of position. Firth being a freshman has made the adjustment incredibly well.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Given the strength and depth of our attack it's been frustrating to see our inability to score on estra man opportunities. Converting at 28% (62nd NCAA) while teams like Notre Dame (77%) and Harvard (63%) are converting much higher. In our 2 losses, Big Red converted only 1 for 9.

100% agree, and from what I have observed, Cornell on the man up, appear to be trying way too hard for that perfect play for an easy score, rather than, like they do at even strength, just letting it rip the first time they get their hands free.

They have shooters all over the field that can rip it at anytime, yet on the man up situations, again, they seem to be looking for that perfect play. Just let it rip, the 1st opportunity you get. On a man up, you will always have a backup, so no need to worry about that.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[mfp]

My suggestion is that when you have a work horse like CJ, the offense should focus THROUGH him when struggling.

I have been thinking this all season. When Cornell was down to Denver late, I was thinking, "Get the ball to the best player on the field and get out of the way."

I am 100% a team-first guy and I love that the Cornell program is made up of players (and coaches) who believe that to their core. But, as with many things in life, sometimes your strengths can be your weaknesses. We saw this at times with Jeff Teat too. He was so unselfish that it could hurt the team. When you're that good, sometimes the team needs you to take over. I'm not suggesting that Kirst should play "hero ball" (and I don't believe Chad is either). But, when you have the one of the top three players in the country, force the defense to stop him. Force the defense to overcommit. Either Kirst will find success (we know how good he is) or it will open things up for the rest of the offense. Or both.

[mfp]

or it will open things up for the rest of the offense

On a related note, my assumption was that a big motivator for Kirst to play box in lacrosse over the summer was to develop his passing game with a lot of pressure on him.

[Chousnake]

Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far. And Kirst seems fine to me. In fact, he is being double and triple teamed and that has opened up opportunities for others to score.

The defense is not playing as a unit yet this season. It is a clear weakness that needs to be cleaned up. I'm sure it is an emphasis this week in practice.

But if we examine the two losses there are basic explanations. The Denver loss was caused completely by a series of ridiculously bad calls in the last 18 minutes that turned a 14-10 lead to a 17-16 loss. Period.

The team was off against PSU, but the lopsided score was a result of an off day from both goalies through 3 quarters vs a hot day by Fracyon. You can't compete against a top 10 team on the road and stop 4 of 22 shots (many from 15 yards out). And Fracyon stopped 65% through 3 quarters, including 4-5 wide open shots from the doorstep. If those shots go in and Cornell stops 4-5 more shots, it's a 2-3 goal loss rather than a blow out. That game snowballed early and it's hard to come back from that.

If Cornell beats Denver, as they deserved to do, and loses to PSU 16-13, they are still a top 6-7 team. Unfortunately, the games and scores count as is. The team will need to step it up as the league schedule starts. Let's see how they respond.

[mfp]

Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.

This is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.

No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".

[Chousnake]

Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.

This is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.

No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".

If you made a list of concerns with this team so far this season, Kirst would be at or near the bottom of the list. He has 5 assists. That is not meant as a criticism. It just points out that he is not being unnecessarily unselfish. His shots per game are down a bit from last season (12 to 10), but that may be because Long is healthy. The concerns that warrant attention are all on the other end of the field.

[Ezra White]

Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.

This is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.

No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".

Also, opposing teams are expecting him to be the go-to guy when we need a goal (e.g., end of DU game). The has to be a contingency plan if, for example, he's double-long-polled.

[mfp]

Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.

This is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.

No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".

Also, opposing teams are expecting him to be the go-to guy when we need a goal (e.g., end of DU game). The has to be a contingency plan if, for example, he's double-long-polled.

Completely agree. To state the obvious: if Kirst is getting double-long-polled, that's a good thing as others are open (and more are open with short sticks).

Again, no criticism of Kirst is intended. I just always had the philosophy that a team should improve in all key areas—regardless of whether those are strengths (offense) or weaknesses (defense).

[faircornell]

Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.

Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.

Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.

Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.

[VeryRustyRed]

Today's game will be unchartered turf in that Cornell's Ivy League season starts with Princeton rather than Yale.
Being the superstitious person that I am, I'm looking for any indication of how the boys will play today. My hope is that they will replicate sub-par efforts vs. Penn State the last two years with terrific wins vs. Yale the following week.
Regardless, a W today is really important.
LGR

[mfp]

Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.

Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.

Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.

Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.

A crushing loss like the one to Penn State typically has one of two effects on a team:

• Confidence is decimated and there is a hangover that carries into subsequent games. Confidence must be rebuilt.

• The team rallies together and roars back with a regroup-and-prove-the-haters-wrong mentality.

This sub has a lot of faith in the coaches and I do too. Plus, there seems to be good leadership so that bodes well. Though I am less clear on the leadership on defense where it is needed most.

Hoping to see a unified, aggressive Cornell team today against a strong Princeton team. Go Big Red!

[Ezra White]

Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.

Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.

Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.

Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.

A crushing loss like the one to Penn State typically has one of two effects on a team:

• Confidence is decimated and there is a hangover that carries into subsequent games. Confidence must be rebuilt.

• The team rallies together and roars back with a regroup-and-prove-the-haters-wrong mentality.

This sub has a lot of faith in the coaches and I do too. Plus, there seems to be good leadership so that bodes well. Though I am less clear on the leadership on defense where it is needed most.

Hoping to see a unified, aggressive Cornell team today against a strong Princeton team. Go Big Red!

Good observation, mfp. My hope for today is for Princeton's players to leave the field saying, "How on earth did these guys lose to Penn State?"

Good luck today, Red!

[The Orfling]

Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.

Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.

Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.

Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.

Good run-down, faircornell -- I'm rooting for a great game but would love to see Cornell bounce back after what I think was really just an off-day against PSU. Here's how I see the "tale of the tape":

• Settled offense: Edge to Cornell (but closer than it might look) -- Cornell averaging 16 goals per game, Princeton 12.3; not the whole story, of course, as Princeton's goals per game were depressed by losses to Maryland and Duke in which they scored under 10. Cornell has the single best offensive player in Kirst, imo, with Long and Firth impossible to ignore as threats, but Princeton's Mackesy is a superstar and their first-year tandem of Kabiri and Burns are awfully good. I still believe that Cornell has more players who are threats overall when you add in guys like Kelleher and Wirtheim.

• Settled defense: Edge to Princeton (I'm assuming #5 is still out? I think Cornell is still adjusting/figuring things out somewhat).

• Face-offs: Slight edge to Cornell (Princeton comes in at about 42%; Cornell has lost its #1 FOGO but I predict Psyllos/Petrakis will be over 50% on the day combined)

• Goaltending: Edge to Princeton (This is more about how great Gianforcaro is -- Knust had an off-day against PSU but is a good goalie; while imo Gianforcaro is one of the best in the country, coming in at 60% save percentage.)

• EMO: Slight edge to Princeton on a small sample size -- they come in at 39% EMO, Cornell about 29%. Both teams are good enough in EMO that avoiding those soul-crushing 2 minute non-releasable penalties will be important.

This is a close one! Massey Ratings has Princeton by 1 with the home field advantage but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cornell have a strong rebound game after the disappointment of not playing their best against PSU. They'll play hard the whole game but if they can get a lead with a few early saves by the Big Red goalie and a few shots going in early against Princeton's GK, that will help a lot to put the Big Red in that winning frame of mind. Looking forward to the game.

[joewillie78]

As much as I love the Big Red, my confidence level for this game is probably as low as its been in years.

I even expected Cornell to beat Maryland 2 Years ago in the NC game, compared to my expectations today.

However, today's matchup with the Tigers who can light up the scoreboard, have a great goaltender, makes it very difficult for me to see a Cornell W.

As always, I will root hard, and I know Cornell will give a great effort ( they always do), but my expectations are quite low on coming home from Princeton with a W.

Gobigred
Joewillie78