Voting Rights

[SCLaxAttack]

(long quote omitted)

What is a "fair election" anymore coaster? You will get a different answer depending on if you ask that question to a Democrat and then a Republican. I'm always of the opinion that when dealing with 2 contrary positions the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If the integrity of the election process is to be determined by one party or the other... something is wrong. I thought both parties were suppose to have observers at all polling places to keep the hinky stuff out and the elections honest? This country is turning voting into rocket science and it should not be that complicated.

And that opinion in this case would be absolutely wrong (correct in the middle), as the Rs have gone off the rails with false theories about all sorts of issues with voting that are frankly not a problem.

When you have a political party lying repeatedly about election issues because their goal is to keep what power they have in spite of not being able to do so if all the voters participate. So they come up with bogus reasons why the rules must change - but the reasoning behind all these changes is to lessen the ability of the other side to vote (most commonly by making it harder to vote in urban areas than in rural ones).

The problem with R observers is that in the past they have been there to intimidate, not to actually observe - and there was a court decision (consent decree) that for years limited their ability to place observers just because they had done that repeatedly. Only in the last year or so was that decision lifted (which was a mistake IMHO).

In reality we should make it EASY to vote. Mail voting should be more widely used, as its security has been demonstrated over the last couple of decades. We should make IDs for anyone who needs one for voting if they do not have a DL, and widen the forms of ID allowed.

The problem with the Rs today is they do not want to change to meet the needs of a changed electorate. The whole point of politics is to govern on behalf of the citizenry (all of them) instead of representing a tribe (us vs. them).

Make the politicians responsive to ALL the voters. Make the districts more competitive for BOTH parties. Then you can start to tamp down the stupid extremism that governs too much of politics.

Voting should be easy. It should be so easy that every vote can be received and counted by election day. When your still counting votes a week or 2 later... what do you expect people to think? IMO every vote being as fair and easy to achieve as possible should be cast and counted on election day. If you don't, or can't or won't cast your vote by election day then your vote doesn't count. If your given one month in advance to mail in your vote that time frame is more than fair. Every American should have their vote counted. If you think procrastinating is okay, well no it is not. If you are too lazy to mail in your vote a month ahead of time then get your ass to the polling station on election day and vote. You snooze you lose buckwheat.

Based on this, does this mean you wouldn’t have a problem distributing ballot boxes more widely so election officials can make their last official pickup at 7PM Election Day? I’d much rather be able to put my ballot there, as I’ve had grandkids’ birthday cards not arrive until weeks after being mailed.

[cradleandshoot]

(long quote omitted)

What is a "fair election" anymore coaster? You will get a different answer depending on if you ask that question to a Democrat and then a Republican. I'm always of the opinion that when dealing with 2 contrary positions the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If the integrity of the election process is to be determined by one party or the other... something is wrong. I thought both parties were suppose to have observers at all polling places to keep the hinky stuff out and the elections honest? This country is turning voting into rocket science and it should not be that complicated.

And that opinion in this case would be absolutely wrong (correct in the middle), as the Rs have gone off the rails with false theories about all sorts of issues with voting that are frankly not a problem.

When you have a political party lying repeatedly about election issues because their goal is to keep what power they have in spite of not being able to do so if all the voters participate. So they come up with bogus reasons why the rules must change - but the reasoning behind all these changes is to lessen the ability of the other side to vote (most commonly by making it harder to vote in urban areas than in rural ones).

The problem with R observers is that in the past they have been there to intimidate, not to actually observe - and there was a court decision (consent decree) that for years limited their ability to place observers just because they had done that repeatedly. Only in the last year or so was that decision lifted (which was a mistake IMHO).

In reality we should make it EASY to vote. Mail voting should be more widely used, as its security has been demonstrated over the last couple of decades. We should make IDs for anyone who needs one for voting if they do not have a DL, and widen the forms of ID allowed.

The problem with the Rs today is they do not want to change to meet the needs of a changed electorate. The whole point of politics is to govern on behalf of the citizenry (all of them) instead of representing a tribe (us vs. them).

Make the politicians responsive to ALL the voters. Make the districts more competitive for BOTH parties. Then you can start to tamp down the stupid extremism that governs too much of politics.

Voting should be easy. It should be so easy that every vote can be received and counted by election day. When your still counting votes a week or 2 later... what do you expect people to think? IMO every vote being as fair and easy to achieve as possible should be cast and counted on election day. If you don't, or can't or won't cast your vote by election day then your vote doesn't count. If your given one month in advance to mail in your vote that time frame is more than fair. Every American should have their vote counted. If you think procrastinating is okay, well no it is not. If you are too lazy to mail in your vote a month ahead of time then get your ass to the polling station on election day and vote. You snooze you lose buckwheat.

Based on this, does this mean you wouldn’t have a problem distributing ballot boxes more widely so election officials can make their last official pickup at 7PM Election Day? I’d much rather be able to put my ballot there, as I’ve had grandkids’ birthday cards not arrive until weeks after being mailed.

Voting is a tad bit more time sensitive than your grandchild getting his Chucky cheese gift certificate on time. I'm guessing the reason your grandkids birthday card was late was you mistakenly put it in a ballot drop box. I mail cards to my grandkids all the time in Philly. I don't know what effed up part of America you live in but it never takes more than 2 days for my card to get from Rochester NY to Philadelphia, PA. Maybe you rebels there in South Carolina have not figured out how the US Mail works. Do you know what a postage stamp is? It sure helps to keep the mail moving.

[SCLaxAttack]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

[Typical Lax Dad]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

The “average” American is not on a lacrosse board.

[Peter Brown]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

[SCLaxAttack]

(long quote omitted)

What is a "fair election" anymore coaster? You will get a different answer depending on if you ask that question to a Democrat and then a Republican. I'm always of the opinion that when dealing with 2 contrary positions the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If the integrity of the election process is to be determined by one party or the other... something is wrong. I thought both parties were suppose to have observers at all polling places to keep the hinky stuff out and the elections honest? This country is turning voting into rocket science and it should not be that complicated.

And that opinion in this case would be absolutely wrong (correct in the middle), as the Rs have gone off the rails with false theories about all sorts of issues with voting that are frankly not a problem.

When you have a political party lying repeatedly about election issues because their goal is to keep what power they have in spite of not being able to do so if all the voters participate. So they come up with bogus reasons why the rules must change - but the reasoning behind all these changes is to lessen the ability of the other side to vote (most commonly by making it harder to vote in urban areas than in rural ones).

The problem with R observers is that in the past they have been there to intimidate, not to actually observe - and there was a court decision (consent decree) that for years limited their ability to place observers just because they had done that repeatedly. Only in the last year or so was that decision lifted (which was a mistake IMHO).

In reality we should make it EASY to vote. Mail voting should be more widely used, as its security has been demonstrated over the last couple of decades. We should make IDs for anyone who needs one for voting if they do not have a DL, and widen the forms of ID allowed.

The problem with the Rs today is they do not want to change to meet the needs of a changed electorate. The whole point of politics is to govern on behalf of the citizenry (all of them) instead of representing a tribe (us vs. them).

Make the politicians responsive to ALL the voters. Make the districts more competitive for BOTH parties. Then you can start to tamp down the stupid extremism that governs too much of politics.

Voting should be easy. It should be so easy that every vote can be received and counted by election day. When your still counting votes a week or 2 later... what do you expect people to think? IMO every vote being as fair and easy to achieve as possible should be cast and counted on election day. If you don't, or can't or won't cast your vote by election day then your vote doesn't count. If your given one month in advance to mail in your vote that time frame is more than fair. Every American should have their vote counted. If you think procrastinating is okay, well no it is not. If you are too lazy to mail in your vote a month ahead of time then get your ass to the polling station on election day and vote. You snooze you lose buckwheat.

Based on this, does this mean you wouldn’t have a problem distributing ballot boxes more widely so election officials can make their last official pickup at 7PM Election Day? I’d much rather be able to put my ballot there, as I’ve had grandkids’ birthday cards not arrive until weeks after being mailed.

Voting is a tad bit more time sensitive than your grandchild getting his Chucky cheese gift certificate on time. I'm guessing the reason your grandkids birthday card was late was you mistakenly put it in a ballot drop box. I mail cards to my grandkids all the time in Philly. I don't know what effed up part of America you live in but it never takes more than 2 days for my card to get from Rochester NY to Philadelphia, PA. Maybe you rebels there in South Carolina have not figured out how the US Mail works. Do you know what a postage stamp is? It sure helps to keep the mail moving.

Cradle, don’t make the wrong assumption. SC has nothing to do with where I live, ever.

But back to my question. If your issue is getting the ballot into the election officials by close of business Election Day, what’s the difference if you drop the ballot in an authorized ballot box for pickup by an election official or if the mailman brings it in a satchel?

I’ll give you another reason why you might want to not make people get their vote in too soon by mail. The D senatorial candidate in NC was ahead in all polls leading up to Election Day - that is until news came of marital infidelities directly conflicting with the family man, religious facade he ran on. Polling flipped the last week allowing the R Tillis to be re-elected. Do you really want for people to have to make up their minds a month before Election Day when something like that could happen?

[cradleandshoot]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Very interesting hypothetical there SC. Is your assumption that if your a frail 80 year old man or woman your very sharp brain has forgotten how to vote. Before my dad became sick he was 84 years old and would not use the snow blower we bought him to clear his very long driveway. Don't feed me a line of chit because your in your 80s that you suddenly become stupid. You are trying to equate being old and frail to being old and unable to do anything for yourself. You need to find a better and less insulting analogy. My old man could have out shoveled you on your best day when he was 84.

[SCLaxAttack]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

[SCLaxAttack]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Very interesting hypothetical there SC. Is your assumption that if your a frail 80 year old man or woman your very sharp brain has forgotten how to vote. Before my dad became sick he was 84 years old and would not use the snow blower we bought him to clear his very long driveway. Don't feed me a line of chit because your in your 80s that you suddenly become stupid. You are trying to equate being old and frail to being old and unable to do anything for yourself. You need to find a better and less insulting analogy. My old man could have out shoveled you on your best day when he was 84.

You’re purposely, and obviously, ignoring my point.

[cradleandshoot]

(long quote omitted)

What is a "fair election" anymore coaster? You will get a different answer depending on if you ask that question to a Democrat and then a Republican. I'm always of the opinion that when dealing with 2 contrary positions the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If the integrity of the election process is to be determined by one party or the other... something is wrong. I thought both parties were suppose to have observers at all polling places to keep the hinky stuff out and the elections honest? This country is turning voting into rocket science and it should not be that complicated.

And that opinion in this case would be absolutely wrong (correct in the middle), as the Rs have gone off the rails with false theories about all sorts of issues with voting that are frankly not a problem.

When you have a political party lying repeatedly about election issues because their goal is to keep what power they have in spite of not being able to do so if all the voters participate. So they come up with bogus reasons why the rules must change - but the reasoning behind all these changes is to lessen the ability of the other side to vote (most commonly by making it harder to vote in urban areas than in rural ones).

The problem with R observers is that in the past they have been there to intimidate, not to actually observe - and there was a court decision (consent decree) that for years limited their ability to place observers just because they had done that repeatedly. Only in the last year or so was that decision lifted (which was a mistake IMHO).

In reality we should make it EASY to vote. Mail voting should be more widely used, as its security has been demonstrated over the last couple of decades. We should make IDs for anyone who needs one for voting if they do not have a DL, and widen the forms of ID allowed.

The problem with the Rs today is they do not want to change to meet the needs of a changed electorate. The whole point of politics is to govern on behalf of the citizenry (all of them) instead of representing a tribe (us vs. them).

Make the politicians responsive to ALL the voters. Make the districts more competitive for BOTH parties. Then you can start to tamp down the stupid extremism that governs too much of politics.

Voting should be easy. It should be so easy that every vote can be received and counted by election day. When your still counting votes a week or 2 later... what do you expect people to think? IMO every vote being as fair and easy to achieve as possible should be cast and counted on election day. If you don't, or can't or won't cast your vote by election day then your vote doesn't count. If your given one month in advance to mail in your vote that time frame is more than fair. Every American should have their vote counted. If you think procrastinating is okay, well no it is not. If you are too lazy to mail in your vote a month ahead of time then get your ass to the polling station on election day and vote. You snooze you lose buckwheat.

Based on this, does this mean you wouldn’t have a problem distributing ballot boxes more widely so election officials can make their last official pickup at 7PM Election Day? I’d much rather be able to put my ballot there, as I’ve had grandkids’ birthday cards not arrive until weeks after being mailed.

Voting is a tad bit more time sensitive than your grandchild getting his Chucky cheese gift certificate on time. I'm guessing the reason your grandkids birthday card was late was you mistakenly put it in a ballot drop box. I mail cards to my grandkids all the time in Philly. I don't know what effed up part of America you live in but it never takes more than 2 days for my card to get from Rochester NY to Philadelphia, PA. Maybe you rebels there in South Carolina have not figured out how the US Mail works. Do you know what a postage stamp is? It sure helps to keep the mail moving.

Cradle, don’t make the wrong assumption. SC has nothing to do with where I live, ever.

But back to my question. If your issue is getting the ballot into the election officials by close of business Election Day, what’s the difference if you drop the ballot in an authorized ballot box for pickup by an election official or if the mailman brings it in a satchel?

I’ll give you another reason why you might want to not make people get their vote in too soon by mail. The D senatorial candidate in NC was ahead in all polls leading up to Election Day - that is until news came of marital infidelities directly conflicting with the family man, religious facade he ran on. Polling flipped the last week allowing the R Tillis to be re-elected. Do you really want for people to have to make up their minds a month before Election Day when something like that could happen?

My opinion is that the most effective method of having elections in our country is to have ever single vote registered into the system on election day.
When 3 days after the election you still have 10s of thousands of votes still to be counted, what do you think people will start believing? Any potential appearance of impropriety in an election begins to erode the confidence all Americans have in the voting system. I for one want to know who the next POTUS will be on election day. It should never 2 more weeks of counting votes that arrived whenever to figure that out.

[Peter Brown]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

Boy, you have really low opinions of voters (old, poor, and presumably black).

For the record, I don’t believe Georgia outlawed ballot harvesting via street cash on voting day (easy way to score $20...just tell the Democratic Party you haven’t voted yet!), helping your poor/old/black man without Internet before voting day with an absentee ballot, or even vans to assist carrying voters on voting day.

There are, in fact, dozens of ways for your hypothetical fella to vote without going to any voting precinct the day of voting.

But keep making excuses. As it is and with all of the artificial devices deployed by Dems to steer votes their way, 2022 will be a route by Republicans over Democrats and that will strictly be because of Democratic socialist/woke overreach. For instance, you might notice crime advancing dramatically everywhere where the woke Dems slam police departments for phony narratives.

[cradleandshoot]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

[foreverlax]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

Ok, so no need to care about anyone over 80.

How about those who work 6 days a week, 10 hour days. They can't afford to take time off to vote.

Do you care?

[Peter Brown]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

Ok, so no need to care about anyone over 80.

How about those who work 6 days a week, 10 hour days. They can't afford to take time off to vote.

Do you care?

Maybe we just shouldn’t have any rules or timelines? After all, we need to care about every single person. Don’t you care about people who are in 72 hour involuntary psych holds?! They can’t get out in time for voting! I say no rules, no limits!!!! Yay.

[Peter Brown]

New Florida election law and I’m eagerly waiting for libs to melt down!!!

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/30/99227755 ... strictions

What is it with libs needing water while voting? Do they have a medical issue?

[cradleandshoot]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

Ok, so no need to care about anyone over 80.

How about those who work 6 days a week, 10 hour days. They can't afford to take time off to vote.

Do you care?

Of course I care. I expect every American citizen that wants to vote should have their vote counted. If I understand even the Georgia rules correctly there will be 30 days of early voting. If your 80 or 180 that is more than a reasonable amount of time to cast your vote. Maybe I am a stick in the mud or I just don't like procrastinators. IMO for the integrity of the voting system election day should be the cutoff day for votes to be cast. When 10 days later they find 10 thousand votes that suddenly showed up out of nowhere or there are 20 thousand votes that will need another month to be counted, then right or wrong, people start to question the integrity of the voting system. I know I'm the lone wolf as far as this goes. I do believe if there is an early voting format that gives you 30 days in advance to vote, via ballot box or absentee ballot then the voter is being given more than enough time to vote. I'm old school and probably always will be. I vote in person on election day. When the day comes that that is not possible for me, you can bet your ass my vote will be cast by day #1 of early voting. If your ass is fumbling around on election day at 8:30 at night suddenly realizing you didn't vote yet... then your a dumbass pure and simple.

[foreverlax]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

Ok, so no need to care about anyone over 80.

How about those who work 6 days a week, 10 hour days. They can't afford to take time off to vote.

Do you care?

Of course I care. I expect every American citizen that wants to vote should have their vote counted. If I understand even the Georgia rules correctly there will be 30 days of early voting. If your 80 or 180 that is more than a reasonable amount of time to cast your vote. Maybe I am a stick in the mud or I just don't like procrastinators. IMO for the integrity of the voting system election day should be the cutoff day for votes to be cast. When 10 days later they find 10 thousand votes that suddenly showed up out of nowhere or there are 20 thousand votes that will need another month to be counted, then right or wrong, people start to question the integrity of the voting system. I know I'm the lone wolf as far as this goes. I do believe if there is an early voting format that gives you 30 days in advance to vote, via ballot box or absentee ballot then the voter is being given more than enough time to vote. I'm old school and probably always will be. I vote in person on election day. When the day comes that that is not possible for me, you can bet your ass my vote will be cast by day #1 of early voting. If your ass is fumbling around on election day at 8:30 at night suddenly realizing you didn't vote yet... then your a dumbass pure and simple.

"But I work 60 hours per week...Sundays I try and take care of my home and family. I can't vote in person, but I will happily vote absentee." said the man.

You ok with allowing him a ballot...based on the above?

[foreverlax]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

Ok, so no need to care about anyone over 80.

How about those who work 6 days a week, 10 hour days. They can't afford to take time off to vote.

Do you care?

Maybe we just shouldn’t have any rules or timelines? Is that your proposal...

After all, we need to care about every single person. Or we could remain self-centered

Don’t you care about people who are in 72 hour involuntary psych holds?! Not sure if I should or not...

They can’t get out in time for voting! I say no rules, no limits!!!! Yay.

[Peter Brown]

But simplifying it reductively, one cohort is trying to create more rules based opacity and difficulty in voting and has made specious claims to fraud they’ve never ever been able to prove only continue to flood with lies, innuendo and rumors. The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

It’s not hard to tell who’s trying to pull one over on their constituency based on the level of honesty and transparency. Means you have to skew to the “left” side a little because the other side has not earned and/or lost the benefit of the doubt with people in the middle at this point. Hence Ga just took two senate seats and went for a Dem for the first time not having to do w Stacey Abrams efforts but rather the vast moderate republican sect here that is done with idiocy, lying and nonsense.

The other cohort wants cleaner, simpler and more transparent voting for citizens.

How do you define cleaner, simpler and more transparent? We have 50 states with 1000s of different counties with thousands of different rules and regulations on how people that live in their counties can vote. The only way cleaner, simpler and transparent works is by having federal guidelines at least at the national level, as to how national elections need to be conducted. How the states conduct their bidness on a state level can still be the equivalent of a bar room free for all.

You know you can see it directionally and philosophically without becoming bogged down with the trees in the forest and it should tell you what the underlying agenda is about whatever detailed heuristic their using. You can the angles which means this isn’t a “there’s room to split the middle” situation. Doing so is tantamount to endorsing and co signing on behavior intended to make voting harder and less available for existing citizens let alone gray area ones. Does that mean it’s a binary, polar, situation? No, but it’s like 90/10, 85/15 not “well there’s room for both sides here as if it’s in that 40-60% band.

My opinion FFG has always been pretty simplistic. I believe that every American that wants to vote can vote. Unless you live in Philadelphia I'm doubting your going to run into a bunch of thugs with clubs trying to dissuade you from going inside to vote.

I understand. Think for some folks where disenfranchisement is real there’s a very different analysis. But regardless the current activity should clearly be understood as an effort to restrict and reduce don’t you think?

My answer to you comes in the form of a cliche. The first step to being a doormat is to lie down. IMO the average American who wants to vote will not allow themselves to be disenfranchised by anyone. I know I wouldn't stop anybody from preventing me from voting. I believe today in 2021 there are not too many Americans that won't let their vote be counted.

+1

Very good post

You’re a frail 80 year old in Atlanta. You have no car so you have to take three different buses to one of the very few polling places set up in your section of the city to purposely make lines longer. Because of this you’re on a line where you won’t get to vote for hours, but a Good Samaritan who has no idea of how you’re going to vote isn’t allowed to even give you a bottle of water.

That’s an entirely different “nobody’s going to prevent me from voting” scenario than the trouble of finding a parking space in the school parking lot 1/4 mile away from your house and being on a line three people deep.

But the troll already knows this and isn’t looking to make sure everyone has a fair opportunity to vote.

Why do liberals have such low opinions of voters?

Here is a helpful guide for your frail old man, for an absentee ballot.

https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/ ... in_georgia

What’s with this guy? Like every 80 year old has internet access. He thinks they do since every 80 year old he deals with is flying their private jet to get to their fourth home on Boca Grande.

Georgia won’t mail out absentee ballots unless requested. That’s because the Georgia Republican Party wants it to be harder to vote. It’s pathetically obvious.

But the troll wants us to believe the poor little 80 year old has a printer available at home so she can print out and submit 20 ballots.

No I am not SC. I know enough people over 80 that are not wallflowers and no matter how frail they may be, they will find a way to vote. Being old and frail does not mean you can be excluded from being able to cast your vote. Just to remind you the suggestion about 80 year olds being too frail to vote was your brainchild not mine.

Ok, so no need to care about anyone over 80.

How about those who work 6 days a week, 10 hour days. They can't afford to take time off to vote.

Do you care?

Maybe we just shouldn’t have any rules or timelines? Is that your proposal...

After all, we need to care about every single person. Or we could remain self-centered

Don’t you care about people who are in 72 hour involuntary psych holds?! Not sure if I should or not...

They can’t get out in time for voting! I say no rules, no limits!!!! Yay.

It’s a shame that libs don’t fully understand that the best gift you can give to humanity is by first taking care of yourself and your family. Once a lib has proven that he and his are perfect, then he can start boasting how much he cares about others. Until then, kindly stfu cause you’re no better than the poor + wretched you pretend to care about. They are way better off without your ‘help’ (see: certain Maryland-based woke FLP posters and the black murder rate of the city they live in, cause they ‘care’ so very much ).

Thx!

[foreverlax]

It’s a shame that libs don’t fully understand that the best gift you can give to humanity is by first taking care of yourself and your family. Of course you have to take care of yourself before you can car for others.

Once a lib has proven that he and his are perfect, then he can start boasting how much he cares about others. Gibberish

Until then, kindly stfu cause you’re no better than the poor + wretched you pretend to care about. Dude, you don't know me that well....but since you opened this door, how about YGFY?

They are way better off without your ‘help’ (see: certain Maryland-based woke FLP posters and the black murder rate of the city they live in, cause they ‘care’ so very much ). More gibberish.

Thx!