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Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:19 am
by MDlaxfan76
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:29 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:27 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:49 am I have to tip my hat off to POTUS elect Biden. He learned from all of the mistakes HRC made in 2016. He took the fight to the states he knew he had to win. He won what 71 million votes. That allows me to poke some fun at the folks here who thought conditions were making it too "tough" for folks to vote. Too bad you didn't give all the voters the credit they deserved. The people that were determined to vote did so, that is a great thing. It wasn't all that tough after all. The USA can now begin to sail in a different direction. If that is for better or worse that is TBD, it will be different. I am honestly happy for so many of the stressed out FLP folks on this forum. You are now free to concentrate your anger on the demure little Catholic woman that is the newest member of the SCOTUS. That has to make it easier to focus. :D
Actually, 75.2 million for Biden so far, with another couple million coming from CA, NY etc.
70 million for Trump.

Yes, people found a way to vote...huge # by mail...so didn't need to push everyone through same day.

But some politicians didn't want mail-in voting or early voting to spread it out. They also wanted fewer polling places.

Guess which ones.

But if you want to credit voter turnout and intensity to Trump, I'd agree.
Immensely passionate and consequential.

On Barrett, we'll see. But I don't blame her for the f'd up process of packing the Courts, at each level, with less vetted, highly ideologically conservative jurists. Nor do I blame her for the packing of the Supreme Court.

We'll judge Barrett on her decisions. Let's see.
That is a fair analysis of Justice Barrett. She took a lot of heat from posters here that were of the opinion she was not qualified. I too am interested in seeing where her decisions land on the legal spectrum. It is an odd thing about the SCOTUS, depending on your political leanings there is probably no candidate that will ever be "qualified" for the SCOTUS in this day and age. The mail in voting was painfully slow. We have become use to knowing who the POTUS would be on election day. If mail in ballots are to be the new normal, I hope the process can be streamlined so it does not take so dog gone long to count them.
I thing you may be referring to those on here, particularly our legal types, who pointed out that she had lower qualification scores from groups that have regularly scored 'conservative' and/or GOP nominated judges 'highly qualified', when so deserved, same for liberal or Dem nominated judges. Lower does not mean 'unqualified', but when we're looking for the very best of the best, (for SCOTUS and other federal courts) regardless of leaning, it's fair to ask that the nominee actually fit that 'highly qualified' category. She does not.

But they also didn't rate her 'unqualified' as they've done with some of the actually ridiculously such nominees that have been pushed at lower levels.

But she's got the gig. Now we can measure her on how she handles the role, not her prior qualifications. Let's 'give her a chance'.

Re mail-in, we've discussed this ad nauseam, but mail-in voting happens very successfully and swiftly when the rules enable votes to be processed and counted as they come in ahead of Election Day. Quite straightforward solution.

And we'll note, yet again, that in those states where they were counted as they came in, there were no leaks of those counts to the public. Perhaps, in part, because they are done at the very local level and aren't reported into the state until Election Day, so quite meaningless on their own, and in larger part because the people in charge actually take the process very seriously.

The ballots that have come in after Election Day are not the issue on getting a count, they are de minimus in comparison to the backlog that built up due to so many voters deciding to vote by mail/dropbox. Similarly, the overseas ballots typically make little difference, yet get counted many days later, as they come in. We don't argue against counting them though...and in a super close situation they theoretically could make a difference. So, we count every vote.

And, it's also very helpful to have easy access to early in-person voting, spreading out the potential for long lines or difficult timing for those working, kids, etc. Make it easier, not harder.

Same for polling stations. Make them easily accessible to all, don't create situations that favor one or the other partisan interest.

Be American.

On the legal theory of the PA case and mail-in voting being accepted for the 3 days after Election Day, as I understand it, the issue is not the validity of accepting votes after Election Day but rather on whether the Supreme Court of the state has the authority to make such rules in contravention with the intent of a legislature, and in this case, in opposition of the Governor and Sec of State who did not agree with the legislature and wanted a longer arrival period. And who wanted an ability to pre-process votes as they came in! The SC of PA forced a compromise.

It makes zero difference to the outcome of PA, as apparently there are very, very few such 'late' arriving votes, but the principal does matter. A ruling against the Supreme Courts of states in a hardline ruling (PA's SC's ruling was eminently reasonable on its face, a compromise) would invalidate any Supreme Court oversight of the constitutionality of state legislature decisions. And that's a problem.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:03 pm
by cradleandshoot
https://people.com/pets/joe-biden-germa ... ite-house/

Biden has officially won me over. All my dogs have been rescue dogs. Every single one of them has been more than special to me. Anybody that has the heart to bring a rescue dog into their lives is a winner in my book. Welcome to the White House Major, pretty nice digs for a rescue dog.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:19 pm
by ggait
Due to ACB's thin resume, she was rated "highly qualified" in a non-unanimous vote from the ABA judicial committee.

Kav, Gorsuch, Kagan, Soto, Alito, Roberts, Breyer all were unanimous highly qualified.

Just the facts ma'am.

P.S. Garland was unanimous highly qualified too.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:22 pm
by ggait
TL/DR on the election.

1. Trump is a jerk.

2. Mail-in voting is an awesome way to turn out your voters. (Thanks Covid!) Unilaterally disarming on mail-in voting is DUMB!!!!!

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:38 pm
by cradleandshoot
ggait wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:19 pm Due to ACB's thin resume, she was rated "highly qualified" in a non-unanimous vote from the ABA judicial committee.

Kav, Gorsuch, Kagan, Soto, Alito, Roberts, Breyer all were unanimous highly qualified.

Just the facts ma'am.

P.S. Garland was unanimous highly qualified too.
I guess, not being a lawyer the criteria to be highly qualified is a bit odd to me. I only know that everything I have read about her legal career up to this point sounds impressive to me. This her opportunity to make her mark on the SCOTUS. Some folks here seem highly doubtful she is up to the challenge. I'm certain she will be graded on this forum regarding her decisions on a regular basis. I don't say that in a negative way. I'm interested to see how she does.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:42 pm
by cradleandshoot
ggait wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:22 pm TL/DR on the election.

1. Trump is a jerk.

2. Mail-in voting is an awesome way to turn out your voters. (Thanks Covid!) Unilaterally disarming on mail-in voting is DUMB!!!!!

"2. Mail-in voting is an awesome way to turn out your voters. (Thanks Covid!) Unilaterally disarming on mail-in voting is DUMB!!!!!"

When you can't the votes in a reasonable amount of time it can create a sense in peoples minds that something hinky is going on. That is not an accusation anything is actually wrong. What is that term you lawyers use... a potential appearance of impropriety. Then you know what happens next, peoples imaginations take over and conspiracy theories are born.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:44 pm
by Farfromgeneva
That’s like saying the last goal in a game or the last call by an official has more impact than the first. Just not true though, doesn’t require higher order thought to understand this.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:50 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:42 pm
ggait wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:22 pm TL/DR on the election.

1. Trump is a jerk.

2. Mail-in voting is an awesome way to turn out your voters. (Thanks Covid!) Unilaterally disarming on mail-in voting is DUMB!!!!!

"2. Mail-in voting is an awesome way to turn out your voters. (Thanks Covid!) Unilaterally disarming on mail-in voting is DUMB!!!!!"

When you can't the votes in a reasonable amount of time it can create a sense in peoples minds that something hinky is going on. That is not an accusation anything is actually wrong. What is that term you lawyers use... a potential appearance of impropriety. Then you know what happens next, peoples imaginations take over and conspiracy theories are born.
Many votes being counted were received weeks ago. GOP fought to not allow any early counting in many states.

You are part of the target audience: https://www.vox.com/2020/11/1/21544279/ ... vania-mail

You are being played like a fiddle.....so is Cooter, 6ft and the other dudes.

11/1/2020

“Current polls show Biden leading in all six states. But his leads are narrower in the fast-counting states than in the slow-counting states, so if Trump does moderately better than polls currently suggest, he could win the fast-counting states on election night and wage battle in the courts to try to prevent the slow-counting ones from fully tallying their votes.”

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:01 pm
by MDlaxfan76
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:03 pm https://people.com/pets/joe-biden-germa ... ite-house/

Biden has officially won me over. All my dogs have been rescue dogs. Every single one of them has been more than special to me. Anybody that has the heart to bring a rescue dog into their lives is a winner in my book. Welcome to the White House Major, pretty nice digs for a rescue dog.
+1 on rescue dogs!!!

BTW, a good mutt, dog or human, has a lot of appeal...

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:04 pm
by MDlaxfan76
ggait wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:19 pm Due to ACB's thin resume, she was rated "highly qualified" in a non-unanimous vote from the ABA judicial committee.

Kav, Gorsuch, Kagan, Soto, Alito, Roberts, Breyer all were unanimous highly qualified.

Just the facts ma'am.

P.S. Garland was unanimous highly qualified too.
Thanks for the correction, "non-unanimous".
Unusual.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:07 pm
by RedFromMI
There are not enough votes left for Trump to overturn enough to tilt the election his way. Period.

None of the votes counted are "illegal" nor in PA, were the ones received after Election Day part of the margin of Biden's victory.

The election is over unless Trump convinces some corrupt judges to overturn it.

And the people have spoken!

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:08 pm
by ggait
When you can't the votes in a reasonable amount of time it can create a sense in peoples minds that something hinky is going on. That is not an accusation anything is actually wrong. What is that term you lawyers use... a potential appearance of impropriety. Then you know what happens next, peoples imaginations take over and conspiracy theories are born.
This issue was identified and publicized a looong time ago.

Such appearance was ensured by GOP state legislators in the Rust Belt (especially in PA) who specifically forbade any processing of the votes prior to election day. Look how fast states like FL and CO got their results out. They have HUGE remote voting but (like many states) they start processing remote votes well before election day. The earlier you start, the earlier you finish. Duh.

The red mirage was a feature, not a bug. The GOP specifically designed it to be that way.

This just can't be said enough.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:37 pm
by jhu72
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:19 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:29 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:27 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:49 am I have to tip my hat off to POTUS elect Biden. He learned from all of the mistakes HRC made in 2016. He took the fight to the states he knew he had to win. He won what 71 million votes. That allows me to poke some fun at the folks here who thought conditions were making it too "tough" for folks to vote. Too bad you didn't give all the voters the credit they deserved. The people that were determined to vote did so, that is a great thing. It wasn't all that tough after all. The USA can now begin to sail in a different direction. If that is for better or worse that is TBD, it will be different. I am honestly happy for so many of the stressed out FLP folks on this forum. You are now free to concentrate your anger on the demure little Catholic woman that is the newest member of the SCOTUS. That has to make it easier to focus. :D
Actually, 75.2 million for Biden so far, with another couple million coming from CA, NY etc.
70 million for Trump.

Yes, people found a way to vote...huge # by mail...so didn't need to push everyone through same day.

But some politicians didn't want mail-in voting or early voting to spread it out. They also wanted fewer polling places.

Guess which ones.

But if you want to credit voter turnout and intensity to Trump, I'd agree.
Immensely passionate and consequential.

On Barrett, we'll see. But I don't blame her for the f'd up process of packing the Courts, at each level, with less vetted, highly ideologically conservative jurists. Nor do I blame her for the packing of the Supreme Court.

We'll judge Barrett on her decisions. Let's see.
That is a fair analysis of Justice Barrett. She took a lot of heat from posters here that were of the opinion she was not qualified. I too am interested in seeing where her decisions land on the legal spectrum. It is an odd thing about the SCOTUS, depending on your political leanings there is probably no candidate that will ever be "qualified" for the SCOTUS in this day and age. The mail in voting was painfully slow. We have become use to knowing who the POTUS would be on election day. If mail in ballots are to be the new normal, I hope the process can be streamlined so it does not take so dog gone long to count them.
I thing you may be referring to those on here, particularly our legal types, who pointed out that she had lower qualification scores from groups that have regularly scored 'conservative' and/or GOP nominated judges 'highly qualified', when so deserved, same for liberal or Dem nominated judges. Lower does not mean 'unqualified', but when we're looking for the very best of the best, (for SCOTUS and other federal courts) regardless of leaning, it's fair to ask that the nominee actually fit that 'highly qualified' category. She does not.

But they also didn't rate her 'unqualified' as they've done with some of the actually ridiculously such nominees that have been pushed at lower levels.

But she's got the gig. Now we can measure her on how she handles the role, not her prior qualifications. Let's 'give her a chance'.

Re mail-in, we've discussed this ad nauseam, but mail-in voting happens very successfully and swiftly when the rules enable votes to be processed and counted as they come in ahead of Election Day. Quite straightforward solution.

And we'll note, yet again, that in those states where they were counted as they came in, there were no leaks of those counts to the public. Perhaps, in part, because they are done at the very local level and aren't reported into the state until Election Day, so quite meaningless on their own, and in larger part because the people in charge actually take the process very seriously.

The ballots that have come in after Election Day are not the issue on getting a count, they are de minimus in comparison to the backlog that built up due to so many voters deciding to vote by mail/dropbox. Similarly, the overseas ballots typically make little difference, yet get counted many days later, as they come in. We don't argue against counting them though...and in a super close situation they theoretically could make a difference. So, we count every vote.

And, it's also very helpful to have easy access to early in-person voting, spreading out the potential for long lines or difficult timing for those working, kids, etc. Make it easier, not harder.

Same for polling stations. Make them easily accessible to all, don't create situations that favor one or the other partisan interest.

Be American.

On the legal theory of the PA case and mail-in voting being accepted for the 3 days after Election Day, as I understand it, the issue is not the validity of accepting votes after Election Day but rather on whether the Supreme Court of the state has the authority to make such rules in contravention with the intent of a legislature, and in this case, in opposition of the Governor and Sec of State who did not agree with the legislature and wanted a longer arrival period. And who wanted an ability to pre-process votes as they came in! The SC of PA forced a compromise.

It makes zero difference to the outcome of PA, as apparently there are very, very few such 'late' arriving votes, but the principal does matter. A ruling against the Supreme Courts of states in a hardline ruling (PA's SC's ruling was eminently reasonable on its face, a compromise) would invalidate any Supreme Court oversight of the constitutionality of state legislature decisions. And that's a problem. I really doubt SCOTUS will invalidate those votes. It is more likely they will allow them, but make clear it is a one off decision. In future it must be the case that such "rules" require the approval of the state legislature.
1) This election is going to see Biden pulling down something like 77 million most likely, call it 6.5 million more votes than Orange Duce. More than twice the margin than in 2016. Dems win two previously reliable red states in Arizona and Georgia. North Carolina demonstrated that it has to be considered a purple state, trending blue state. Georgia is currently +10K for Biden with a few more votes to count, that will change nothing. A recount will change nothing. This is all over but for the final calls. Biden will take 306 ECV and win the popular vote by more that 6,5 million
2) Now begins the battle for the true sole of the Republican Party. The democrats should do everything they reasonably can to support the non-Trumpnista faction, the "real" republicans. The Fascist Trumpnista Party has not been defeated in detail, and must be. The Lincoln Project now needs to begin an educational campaign to explain to the rank and file what they are really supporting. Educate them as to the difference between democracy and fascism. I think this is doable. Not everyone who voted for Trump is a fascists, at most 20 million. Ignorance rules among the Trumpnista.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:40 pm
by jhu72
ggait wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:08 pm
When you can't the votes in a reasonable amount of time it can create a sense in peoples minds that something hinky is going on. That is not an accusation anything is actually wrong. What is that term you lawyers use... a potential appearance of impropriety. Then you know what happens next, peoples imaginations take over and conspiracy theories are born.
This issue was identified and publicized a looong time ago.

Such appearance was ensured by GOP state legislators in the Rust Belt (especially in PA) who specifically forbade any processing of the votes prior to election day. Look how fast states like FL and CO got their results out. They have HUGE remote voting but (like many states) they start processing remote votes well before election day. The earlier you start, the earlier you finish. Duh.

The red mirage was a feature, not a bug. The GOP specifically designed it to be that way.

This just can't be said enough.
+1

You want to blame someone for this - BLAME REPUBLICAN STATE LEGISLATURES trying to put their thumbs on the scale.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:41 pm
by Farfromgeneva
That’s where the belligerent and neophyte wing of the Democratic Party can’t be petty though, can’t fight it if Biden wants to throw a bone of a seat to a kasich or even Collins. Just like the prior administration had an opportunity to unite so does the Dems now. It would be rational for them to try to stick it to republicans, of course, but then they’d be behaving no better.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:53 pm
by RedFromMI
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:41 pm That’s where the belligerent and neophyte wing of the Democratic Party can’t be petty though, can’t fight it if Biden wants to throw a bone of a seat to a kasich or even Collins. Just like the prior administration had an opportunity to unite so does the Dems now. It would be rational for them to try to stick it to republicans, of course, but then they’d be behaving no better.
How about find an R senator in a D state and offer up a cabinet position? Then win one of the two in GA, and you have Mitch on the sidelines.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:01 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Susan collins.

Would be funny to watch Mitch try to jam up a republican taking a position in the administration but probably expect it.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:13 pm
by jhu72
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:41 pm That’s where the belligerent and neophyte wing of the Democratic Party can’t be petty though, can’t fight it if Biden wants to throw a bone of a seat to a kasich or even Collins. Just like the prior administration had an opportunity to unite so does the Dems now. It would be rational for them to try to stick it to republicans, of course, but then they’d be behaving no better.
Saw an interview with AOC today. She seems to get it. We will see. I really think the way it goes is totally in McConnell's hands. If he behaves badly, the dems will react in kind. This assumes of course that the dems don't win the Georgia runoff. If the dems win the runoff, Biden is free to govern to his word, if they don't, then the tone of the Biden administration is totally in McConnell's hands. Biden will have no choice but adopt some of Trump's techniques in his first two years.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:19 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
jhu72 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:40 pm
ggait wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:08 pm
When you can't the votes in a reasonable amount of time it can create a sense in peoples minds that something hinky is going on. That is not an accusation anything is actually wrong. What is that term you lawyers use... a potential appearance of impropriety. Then you know what happens next, peoples imaginations take over and conspiracy theories are born.
This issue was identified and publicized a looong time ago.

Such appearance was ensured by GOP state legislators in the Rust Belt (especially in PA) who specifically forbade any processing of the votes prior to election day. Look how fast states like FL and CO got their results out. They have HUGE remote voting but (like many states) they start processing remote votes well before election day. The earlier you start, the earlier you finish. Duh.

The red mirage was a feature, not a bug. The GOP specifically designed it to be that way.

This just can't be said enough.
+1

You want to blame someone for this - BLAME REPUBLICAN STATE LEGISLATURES trying to put their thumbs on the scale.
+1000 and the target audience is delivering the expected response.

Re: President Elect Biden

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:57 pm
by cradleandshoot
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:44 pm That’s like saying the last goal in a game or the last call by an official has more impact than the first. Just not true though, doesn’t require higher order thought to understand this.
Your talking common sense, I'm talking human nature.