cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:44 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:29 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:05 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:35 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:19 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:10 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:26 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:29 am
Do you imagine that I'm not in favor of housing credits being able to used in
any jurisdiction, with no discrimination by a landlord for the source of such income???
As to Gilman's neighborhood, which until very recently was deeply segregated by redlining, both religiously and racially, I'm quite comfortable with the increased integration that has occurred and hopefully more with time.
And heck, the best public elementary school in the City of Baltimore, quite racially and socio-economically mixed, is less than 200 yards south of Gilman on Roland Avenue. A family relocated to that neighborhood would indeed have an excellent chance of thriving. That's the whole point.
And Gilman provides 100% scholarships for kids of need who show promise.
The best in ALL of Baltimore City? You don't say!
Where do those kids who move in to that elementary/middle school's district go to h/s?
Roland Park, Lake Ave and the surrounds aren't sending their kids to Poly or City.
Kram,
Which public elementary school in Baltimore City would you say is better than Roland Park Public?
I'm happy to be corrected, but that's my understanding. Perhaps I should have said 'one of the best'??
And it's quite mixed, socioeconomically, racially, and religiously. About 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 other (asian, hispanic, etc)
But feel free to share which ones would be better than Roland Park Public...
If you increased the aperture, in Baltimore County alone (where we are), there would likely be 4 public elementary schools which would likely be considered even better. I recall when we had a neighbor move from California who had been an elementary school teacher there, her husband a professor at Stanford, now Hopkins. She focused on where to live based upon the elementary schools for their kids and chose Ft. Garrison area (Stevenson) for that reason. She said that there were 4 schools in our county that were superior to ANY, private or public, in all of California...whether that's 100% correct, I dunno, but she was very serious about it.
Back to the point, are you questioning whether a family and its kids would likely do better in that community than stuck at Latrobe ??
I'm saying RPES/MS is absolutely the best school in the city.
My brother in law was hell bent on buying in the City. He ultimately decided to build a home in Cedar Croft a few years ago. Loved the old houses all around and tree lined streets, but hadn't thought out the schooling part. Shortly after building, here comes their first kid...
ES and MS is just fine at RPES/MS... H/S not at all. Now the scramble to start socking it away because public h/s is "not an option." His words, not mine. And this is a guy who aligns much closer to dislaxxic, than me, politically.
I'm confused and must simply not be understanding.
Roland Park Public does not have a high school, it ends with Middle School.
Sounds like you agree that it's indeed the best public elementary school in the City?
Perhaps as well the Middle School?
Much better environment for kids and their education than all sorts of others all over the city.
That's all I said.
I didn't say it was the best public high school in the City because they don't have one. Yes, if staying in public school, the best nearby options would be Poly and City, Western, right? Poly/Western right down the hill.
Nor did I make an argument for public high schools more generally in our region, that's another topic altogether.
I'm saying that if you're not in RPES/MS district your options in Baltimore City are disastrous. RPES is quite the exception, not the rule. And all of those kids leave for private schools in 9th grade. City and Poly are shells of what they were formerly.
Well, we were talking about disaggregating poverty and the proven reality that when families, with no increase in public support, are relocated to areas that are more stable, more affluent than their prior ghetto area, they do far, far better.
Petey thought he was challenging me when he asked how I'd feel about those families coming next door to Gilman. No problemo, there's a terrific public school for those kids right there with 41.5% white, 38.1% black, 5.4% Hispanic and 15% other. And yup, they do quite well.
Many go on to private schools, many on scholarship, others not. And yes, some go on to schools like Poly and City and Western which may not be the schools they once were, but are nevertheless decent public high schools.
So, a kid from a very poor family on subsidized housing voucher has a heck of a lot better chance of success when being integrated into that environment than battling their way through their neighborhoods to the schools they used to go to.
That's the whole freaking point!
Disaggregate the poverty...it's not the family in poverty, it's the concentration.
"Disaggregate the poverty...it's not the family in poverty, it's the concentration."
Yeah, that is the solution... spread the poverty equally among everybody.
MD, when you decide to hire the least qualified people that you interview to diversify your own employees, then we can talk. You need to put your money and your business where your mouth is. I bet you a steak dinner you will never do that will you? Have you ever asked yourself MD why the poverty concentration is so high? The democrats have been trying to address this situation for 60 years years. They don't want a solution. The problem is what they continually campaign on to win re-election. If you have not fixed the problem in 60 years you don't really want to fix the problem. Does it really take a lowly HS graduate to point this little conundrum out to you. Our late great Congresswoman Louise Slaughter use to say this every 2 years when she ran for re-election... " I want to go back to warshington and fix what is broken. MD she never succeeded in 36 years. The dirty little secret was her job was never to "fix" anything. Her job was to get re-elected to one more term. You are savvy enough to know how this stupid little game is played. There are people in DC that pretend to have solutions to problems that they do not want fixed to begin with. Why?? If you actually fix a problem, what do you run on to be re-elected?
cradle, I'll give you a pass for not understanding what the research has shown and the policy implications.
Families, with no greater gov't financial support, nor any other new policy, rule, regulation, etc, do better when they are integrated into a community that is stable rather than their prior ghettoized existence. The kids do better, the parents do better.
This really should come as no surprise. Those with the financial wherewithal to move out of a ghetto do so. They want a safer environment and they want better schools for their kids.
Families without that wherewithal don't actually WANT to stay in the ghetto, they feel trapped. Trapped in the poverty cycle, the violence, the substance abuse, the broken down schools and health systems, the high cost but awful food system, it goes on and on.
Families want better, but are mired in the muck of poverty, with generations of frustration and depression.
For generations, official government policies have trapped these families. Government sanctioned redlining prevented families of color from moving into 'stable' neighborhoods, and unofficial such redlining has reinforced this. I won't go into the litany of ways this has occurred decade after decade after decade, but it ranges from transportation policy and investment decisions to public housing to insurance to encouragement of white flight, etc. Lots of ways.
In no way do I think Dems are unaccountable for policy failures of the past 50+ years. Even many of the most well-intentioned policies have been abject mistakes. Most obviously was the construction of massive public housing projects, intended to efficiently provide housing for the poor, yet became cesspools of degradation and violence. And families trapped in these projects suffered greatly from the concentration of poverty in which they lived.
Concentrating poverty simply reinforces the poverty cycle. Depression, the loss of hope and aspirations, lead in the paint and water system, schools without air conditioning, alleys full of trash and rats, drug dealers killing for the corners on which to sell to the customers in cars coming in from the suburbs, kids with dads in jail or dead, brother, cousin, friend shot dead, trauma at young ages. Brutal.
Again, research has shown that when families are assisted in taking a rent voucher and moving to a stable neighborhood the outcomes tend to be far better for all, health, education, aspirations. Generational trajectory changed. Obviously any given individual may not 'make it' to a better life, but they have a shot and on average the improvements are dramatic.
But we have lots (indeed most) of jurisdictions in which it has been legal to refuse a government rent voucher as payment for the rent. And landlords actively use that capability to discriminate on that basis, differentially based on race. And they needn't explain why they took the rent voucher from a white family but not the black family.
That's what the Obama policy was about, and what Trump is dog whistling will occur under Biden, the requirement that landlords
not discriminate against the source of the rent payment.
No one is asking the landlord or the jurisdiction to accept a lower payment or to hire an unqualified worker with this policy.
This should not be a partisan political issue, it should actually appeal to the conservative (or liberal) who has an open heart and wants to provide opportunity and a path upward to all, rather than pouring dollars down the drain to maintain a failed status quo.
And, yes, Petey, I want my jurisdiction (Baltimore County) to have such voucher acceptance.
I grew up about 10 blocks from Gilman, closer to Loyola College (now University) in the Homeland neighborhood, which was part of the Roland Park, Guilford, area development. Strictly redlined both racially and religiously by community charter, supported by official government policy most of the years I lived there as a kid and subsequently unofficially enforced by real estate agents. My mother had grown up in that community, whereas my dad had grown up in a two bedroom apartment two blocks from Hopkins. Both parents worked.
My family moved out to the Greenspring Valley, 20 minutes from downtown, with 6 acres and an 1850's farm house when I was 12. They later bought the 30 acres next door and put it into permanent conservation and kept it as a farmland and woods. My wife and I bought all but 3 acres and the original house, which my sister bought, and we built a home in 2006 for us looking across the valley. Beautiful. And yes, very "privileged".
My current community is much more integrated religiously than where I'd grown up in my early childhood, but still quite limited racially. Unofficial redlining has been very strong in this regard, with black families traditionally channeled elsewhere, mostly the Liberty Road to Reisterstown Road corridor to our west. Now, there's not much low income housing opportunity in a 3 mile radius of my home due to large parcel zoning, but within a 10 mile radius for sure. Racial integration is improving slowly, but at least somewhat.
My family has been somewhat active in these issues, though none more so than my wife, who grew up poor ('townie') in a stable community on Cape Cod, two parents who worked hard, public school system that benefited from the summer resident tax base and the scientific community of Woods Hole. She was valedictorian, paid for Dartmouth and Harvard Business School herself, no financial support from family. She's been a mentor of young girls at an elementary/middle school in West Baltimore for more than 20 years, chairs the Enterprise Women's Board, and serves on the board of the Baltimore chapter of Year-Up.
https://www.yearup.org/about She would tell you about the bright eyes, eagerness, and human potential of the girls she mentors, and the distressing loss of such by so many who are ground down by trauma, health disparities, poverty. and she'd tell you of the amazing grit of those students who battle to get the opportunity to be in Year-Up, kids who had no college opportunities, had poor educations, but want more and are willing to build professional careers in tech nevertheless.
My sister's husband, who grew up in Baltimore too, is incredibly active in various Catholic charity organizations and for the Y, serving as a toastmaster, auctioneer, etc for dozens of events and as Santa for close to 30 charity appearances or the Turkey at the Turkey Trot.
We all volunteer at multiple organizations, do family duty at soup kitchens, etc. My involvements have been more in the tech community and with inter religious activities and orgs, with the past 20 years at ICJS perhaps most involved in addressing issues of justice and equity in Baltimore and our greater world.
https://icjs.org The current Justice Fellows and Teacher Fellows program are directly involved in addressing such issues. I'm on a one year hiatus from that Board, and expect to return for another set of terms, but remain involved on committees.
Could we, should we do more? Probably.