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Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
by Kismet
seacoaster wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:39 pm We have really lost our way. Talk about regressive cancel culture? Building a country of incurious comforted morons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... get-books/

"Perhaps the most infamous quote of the 2021 Virginia governor’s race — and indeed of any 2021 race — belongs to Democrat Terry McAuliffe: “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”

What many people might not have fully processed is that the quote stemmed from a debate about books in schools. Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin (R) had attacked McAuliffe for, as governor, vetoing a bill to allow parents to opt their children out of reading assignments they deem to be explicit. The impetus was a famous book from Nobel laureate Toni Morrison, “Beloved,” about an enslaved Black woman who kills her 2-year-old daughter to prevent her from being enslaved herself.

While that effort took place years ago, it was rekindled as a political issue at a telling time. Not only are conservatives increasingly targeting school curriculums surrounding race, but there’s also a building and often-related effort to rid school libraries of certain books.

The effort has been varied in the degree of its fervor and the books it has targeted, but one particular episode this week showed just what can happen when it’s taken to its extremes. Shortly after the election result in Virginia, a pair of conservative school board members in the same state proposed not just banning certain books deemed to be sexually explicit, but burning them.

As the Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star reported Tuesday:

Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned.

“I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said, and Twigg said he wants to “see the books before we burn them so we can identify within our community that we are eradicating this bad stuff.”
Abuismail reportedly added that allowing one particular book to remain on the shelves even briefly meant the schools “would rather have our kids reading gay pornography than about Christ.”

It’s easy to caricature a particular movement with some of its most extreme promoters. And there is a demonstrated history of efforts to ban books in schools, including by liberals. Such efforts have often involved classics such as “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Of Mice and Men” for their depictions of race and use of racist language more commonly used at the time the books were written. More recently, conservatives have often challenged books teaching kids about LGBTQ issues.

But advocates say what’s happening now is more pronounced.

“What has taken us aback this year is the intensity with which school libraries are under attack,” said Nora Pelizzari, a spokeswoman at the National Coalition Against Censorship.

She added that the apparent coordination of the effort sets it apart: “Particularly when taken in concert with the legislative attempts to control school curricula, this feels like a more overarching attempt to purge schools of materials that people disagree with. It feels different than what we’ve seen in recent years.”

Even as the news broke Tuesday in Virginia, another school board just outside Wichita, announced that it was removing 29 books from circulation. Among them were another Morrison book, “The Bluest Eye,” and writings about racism in America including August Wilson’s Pulitzer Prize-winning play “Fences,” as well as “They Called Themselves the K.K.K.,” a history of the white supremacist group. The books haven’t technically been banned, but rather aren’t available for checking out pending a review.

“At this time, the district is not in a position to know if the books contained on this list meet our educational goals or not,” a school official said in an email.

The day before, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) issued an executive order calling on state education officials to review the books available to students for “pornography and other obscene content.” Abbott indicated before the order that such content needed to be examined and removed if it was found. He reportedly did not specify what the “obscene content” standard for books should be.

Abbott added Wednesday that the Texas Education Agency should report any instances of pornography being made available to minors “for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.”

The effort builds upon a review launched last month by state Rep. Michael Krause (R), who is running for state attorney general. Krause is targeting books that “contain material that might make students feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress because of their race or sex or convey that a student, by virtue of their race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.”

Krause doesn’t say what he intends to recommend about such books, but he accompanied his inquiry with a list of more than 800 of them, including two Pulitzer Prize winners: “The Confessions of Nat Turner” by William Styron and “Between the World and Me” by Ta-Nehisi Coates.

There has also been an effort by Republicans in Wisconsin not focused on books, but broadly on the use of certain terminology in teaching students. As the Hill’s Reid Wilson reported about the state GOP’s particular effort to ban critical race theory from schools:

[State Rep. Chuck] Wichgers (R), who represents Muskego in the legislature, attached an addendum to his legislation that included a list of “terms and concepts” that would violate the bill if it became law.

Among those words: “Woke,” “whiteness,” “White supremacy,” “structural bias,” “structural racism,” “systemic bias” and “systemic racism.” The bill would also bar “abolitionist teaching,” in a state that sent more than 91,000 soldiers to fight with the Union Army in the Civil War.

The list of barred words or concepts includes “equity,” “inclusivity education,” “multiculturalism” and “patriarchy,” as well as “social justice” and “cultural awareness.”

Back in September, a school district in Pennsylvania reversed a year-long freeze on certain books almost exclusively by or about people of color. A similar thing happened in Katy, Tex., near Houston, where graphic novels about Black children struggling to fit in were removed and quickly reinstated last month. Many such fights have been concentrated in Texas.

There has also been a recent effort by a conservative group in Tennessee to ban books written for young readers about the civil rights struggle. Supporters cite the anti-critical race theory law the state passed earlier this year. And school officials in Virginia Beach recently announced they’d review books, including ones about LGBTQ issues and Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye,” after complaints from school board members.

Indeed, oftentimes the books involved are the same.

As the Los Angeles Times reported this week, such battles are part of a much larger debate over excluding books that has been injected with new intensity amid the anti-critical race theory push and now, apparently, with the demonstrated electoral success of that approach.

The Spotsylvania County, Va., example is an important one to pick out. While the two members floating burning books have aligned with conservatives, the vote was unanimous. It was 6-0 in favor of reviewing the books for sexually explicit content. School officials expressed confidence in their vetting process but acknowledged it’s possible certain books with objectionable content got through that process.

The question, as with critical race theory, is in how wide a net is cast. Sexually explicit content is one thing; targeting books that make students uncomfortable or deal in sensitive but very real subjects like racial discrimination is another.

There is clearly an audience in the conservative movement for more broadly excluding subjects involving the history of racism and how it might impact modern life. And while it’s difficult to capture the targeting of books on a quantitative level nationwide, this is an undersold subplot in the conservative effort to raise concerns about what children might learn in school."
I guess Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is next for erasure. How ironic. The title represents the temperature at which paper ignites and then burns.

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:01 am
by Peter Brown
Kismet wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
seacoaster wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:39 pm We have really lost our way. Talk about regressive cancel culture? Building a country of incurious comforted morons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... get-books/

"Perhaps the most infamous quote of the 2021 Virginia governor’s race — and indeed of any 2021 race — belongs to Democrat Terry McAuliffe: “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”

What many people might not have fully processed is that the quote stemmed from a debate about books in schools. Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin (R) had attacked McAuliffe for, as governor, vetoing a bill to allow parents to opt their children out of reading assignments they deem to be explicit. The impetus was a famous book from Nobel laureate Toni Morrison, “Beloved,” about an enslaved Black woman who kills her 2-year-old daughter to prevent her from being enslaved herself.

While that effort took place years ago, it was rekindled as a political issue at a telling time. Not only are conservatives increasingly targeting school curriculums surrounding race, but there’s also a building and often-related effort to rid school libraries of certain books.

The effort has been varied in the degree of its fervor and the books it has targeted, but one particular episode this week showed just what can happen when it’s taken to its extremes. Shortly after the election result in Virginia, a pair of conservative school board members in the same state proposed not just banning certain books deemed to be sexually explicit, but burning them.

As the Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star reported Tuesday:

Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned.

“I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said, and Twigg said he wants to “see the books before we burn them so we can identify within our community that we are eradicating this bad stuff.”
Abuismail reportedly added that allowing one particular book to remain on the shelves even briefly meant the schools “would rather have our kids reading gay pornography than about Christ.”

It’s easy to caricature a particular movement with some of its most extreme promoters. And there is a demonstrated history of efforts to ban books in schools, including by liberals. Such efforts have often involved classics such as “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Of Mice and Men” for their depictions of race and use of racist language more commonly used at the time the books were written. More recently, conservatives have often challenged books teaching kids about LGBTQ issues.

But advocates say what’s happening now is more pronounced.

“What has taken us aback this year is the intensity with which school libraries are under attack,” said Nora Pelizzari, a spokeswoman at the National Coalition Against Censorship.

She added that the apparent coordination of the effort sets it apart: “Particularly when taken in concert with the legislative attempts to control school curricula, this feels like a more overarching attempt to purge schools of materials that people disagree with. It feels different than what we’ve seen in recent years.”

Even as the news broke Tuesday in Virginia, another school board just outside Wichita, announced that it was removing 29 books from circulation. Among them were another Morrison book, “The Bluest Eye,” and writings about racism in America including August Wilson’s Pulitzer Prize-winning play “Fences,” as well as “They Called Themselves the K.K.K.,” a history of the white supremacist group. The books haven’t technically been banned, but rather aren’t available for checking out pending a review.

“At this time, the district is not in a position to know if the books contained on this list meet our educational goals or not,” a school official said in an email.

The day before, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) issued an executive order calling on state education officials to review the books available to students for “pornography and other obscene content.” Abbott indicated before the order that such content needed to be examined and removed if it was found. He reportedly did not specify what the “obscene content” standard for books should be.

Abbott added Wednesday that the Texas Education Agency should report any instances of pornography being made available to minors “for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.”

The effort builds upon a review launched last month by state Rep. Michael Krause (R), who is running for state attorney general. Krause is targeting books that “contain material that might make students feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress because of their race or sex or convey that a student, by virtue of their race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.”

Krause doesn’t say what he intends to recommend about such books, but he accompanied his inquiry with a list of more than 800 of them, including two Pulitzer Prize winners: “The Confessions of Nat Turner” by William Styron and “Between the World and Me” by Ta-Nehisi Coates.

There has also been an effort by Republicans in Wisconsin not focused on books, but broadly on the use of certain terminology in teaching students. As the Hill’s Reid Wilson reported about the state GOP’s particular effort to ban critical race theory from schools:

[State Rep. Chuck] Wichgers (R), who represents Muskego in the legislature, attached an addendum to his legislation that included a list of “terms and concepts” that would violate the bill if it became law.

Among those words: “Woke,” “whiteness,” “White supremacy,” “structural bias,” “structural racism,” “systemic bias” and “systemic racism.” The bill would also bar “abolitionist teaching,” in a state that sent more than 91,000 soldiers to fight with the Union Army in the Civil War.

The list of barred words or concepts includes “equity,” “inclusivity education,” “multiculturalism” and “patriarchy,” as well as “social justice” and “cultural awareness.”

Back in September, a school district in Pennsylvania reversed a year-long freeze on certain books almost exclusively by or about people of color. A similar thing happened in Katy, Tex., near Houston, where graphic novels about Black children struggling to fit in were removed and quickly reinstated last month. Many such fights have been concentrated in Texas.

There has also been a recent effort by a conservative group in Tennessee to ban books written for young readers about the civil rights struggle. Supporters cite the anti-critical race theory law the state passed earlier this year. And school officials in Virginia Beach recently announced they’d review books, including ones about LGBTQ issues and Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye,” after complaints from school board members.

Indeed, oftentimes the books involved are the same.

As the Los Angeles Times reported this week, such battles are part of a much larger debate over excluding books that has been injected with new intensity amid the anti-critical race theory push and now, apparently, with the demonstrated electoral success of that approach.

The Spotsylvania County, Va., example is an important one to pick out. While the two members floating burning books have aligned with conservatives, the vote was unanimous. It was 6-0 in favor of reviewing the books for sexually explicit content. School officials expressed confidence in their vetting process but acknowledged it’s possible certain books with objectionable content got through that process.

The question, as with critical race theory, is in how wide a net is cast. Sexually explicit content is one thing; targeting books that make students uncomfortable or deal in sensitive but very real subjects like racial discrimination is another.

There is clearly an audience in the conservative movement for more broadly excluding subjects involving the history of racism and how it might impact modern life. And while it’s difficult to capture the targeting of books on a quantitative level nationwide, this is an undersold subplot in the conservative effort to raise concerns about what children might learn in school."
I guess Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is next for erasure. How ironic. The title represents the temperature at which paper ignites and then burns.



What seacoaster and Kismet neglect to inform the Fanlax reader is that local Virginia TV stations including ABC, CBS and NBC refused to air an ad depicting the sexually explicit materials that were widely available to students in school libraries in the state, citing federal law which prohibits airing pornographic images, in several of these books, notably Gender Queer by Maia Kobae.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ima ... it-for-tv/

Beloved by Morrison is a different kettle of fish, no explicit sexual imagery like the others, but rather the intense written imagery of slaves as animals could be traumatic to a child reading. The book is more appropriate for college age kids. I’ve read the sections where this is graphic, and it is absolutely not appropriate for elementary or even high school kids.

These aren’t modern day book burners, but rather concerned parents. But please keep calling parents that! It should really work out well next fall. :lol:

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:14 am
by Kismet
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:01 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
seacoaster wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:39 pm We have really lost our way. Talk about regressive cancel culture? Building a country of incurious comforted morons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... get-books/

"Perhaps the most infamous quote of the 2021 Virginia governor’s race — and indeed of any 2021 race — belongs to Democrat Terry McAuliffe: “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”

What many people might not have fully processed is that the quote stemmed from a debate about books in schools. Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin (R) had attacked McAuliffe for, as governor, vetoing a bill to allow parents to opt their children out of reading assignments they deem to be explicit. The impetus was a famous book from Nobel laureate Toni Morrison, “Beloved,” about an enslaved Black woman who kills her 2-year-old daughter to prevent her from being enslaved herself.

While that effort took place years ago, it was rekindled as a political issue at a telling time. Not only are conservatives increasingly targeting school curriculums surrounding race, but there’s also a building and often-related effort to rid school libraries of certain books.

The effort has been varied in the degree of its fervor and the books it has targeted, but one particular episode this week showed just what can happen when it’s taken to its extremes. Shortly after the election result in Virginia, a pair of conservative school board members in the same state proposed not just banning certain books deemed to be sexually explicit, but burning them.

As the Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star reported Tuesday:

Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned.

“I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said, and Twigg said he wants to “see the books before we burn them so we can identify within our community that we are eradicating this bad stuff.”
Abuismail reportedly added that allowing one particular book to remain on the shelves even briefly meant the schools “would rather have our kids reading gay pornography than about Christ.”

It’s easy to caricature a particular movement with some of its most extreme promoters. And there is a demonstrated history of efforts to ban books in schools, including by liberals. Such efforts have often involved classics such as “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Of Mice and Men” for their depictions of race and use of racist language more commonly used at the time the books were written. More recently, conservatives have often challenged books teaching kids about LGBTQ issues.

But advocates say what’s happening now is more pronounced.

“What has taken us aback this year is the intensity with which school libraries are under attack,” said Nora Pelizzari, a spokeswoman at the National Coalition Against Censorship.

She added that the apparent coordination of the effort sets it apart: “Particularly when taken in concert with the legislative attempts to control school curricula, this feels like a more overarching attempt to purge schools of materials that people disagree with. It feels different than what we’ve seen in recent years.”

Even as the news broke Tuesday in Virginia, another school board just outside Wichita, announced that it was removing 29 books from circulation. Among them were another Morrison book, “The Bluest Eye,” and writings about racism in America including August Wilson’s Pulitzer Prize-winning play “Fences,” as well as “They Called Themselves the K.K.K.,” a history of the white supremacist group. The books haven’t technically been banned, but rather aren’t available for checking out pending a review.

“At this time, the district is not in a position to know if the books contained on this list meet our educational goals or not,” a school official said in an email.

The day before, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) issued an executive order calling on state education officials to review the books available to students for “pornography and other obscene content.” Abbott indicated before the order that such content needed to be examined and removed if it was found. He reportedly did not specify what the “obscene content” standard for books should be.

Abbott added Wednesday that the Texas Education Agency should report any instances of pornography being made available to minors “for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.”

The effort builds upon a review launched last month by state Rep. Michael Krause (R), who is running for state attorney general. Krause is targeting books that “contain material that might make students feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress because of their race or sex or convey that a student, by virtue of their race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.”

Krause doesn’t say what he intends to recommend about such books, but he accompanied his inquiry with a list of more than 800 of them, including two Pulitzer Prize winners: “The Confessions of Nat Turner” by William Styron and “Between the World and Me” by Ta-Nehisi Coates.

There has also been an effort by Republicans in Wisconsin not focused on books, but broadly on the use of certain terminology in teaching students. As the Hill’s Reid Wilson reported about the state GOP’s particular effort to ban critical race theory from schools:

[State Rep. Chuck] Wichgers (R), who represents Muskego in the legislature, attached an addendum to his legislation that included a list of “terms and concepts” that would violate the bill if it became law.

Among those words: “Woke,” “whiteness,” “White supremacy,” “structural bias,” “structural racism,” “systemic bias” and “systemic racism.” The bill would also bar “abolitionist teaching,” in a state that sent more than 91,000 soldiers to fight with the Union Army in the Civil War.

The list of barred words or concepts includes “equity,” “inclusivity education,” “multiculturalism” and “patriarchy,” as well as “social justice” and “cultural awareness.”

Back in September, a school district in Pennsylvania reversed a year-long freeze on certain books almost exclusively by or about people of color. A similar thing happened in Katy, Tex., near Houston, where graphic novels about Black children struggling to fit in were removed and quickly reinstated last month. Many such fights have been concentrated in Texas.

There has also been a recent effort by a conservative group in Tennessee to ban books written for young readers about the civil rights struggle. Supporters cite the anti-critical race theory law the state passed earlier this year. And school officials in Virginia Beach recently announced they’d review books, including ones about LGBTQ issues and Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye,” after complaints from school board members.

Indeed, oftentimes the books involved are the same.

As the Los Angeles Times reported this week, such battles are part of a much larger debate over excluding books that has been injected with new intensity amid the anti-critical race theory push and now, apparently, with the demonstrated electoral success of that approach.

The Spotsylvania County, Va., example is an important one to pick out. While the two members floating burning books have aligned with conservatives, the vote was unanimous. It was 6-0 in favor of reviewing the books for sexually explicit content. School officials expressed confidence in their vetting process but acknowledged it’s possible certain books with objectionable content got through that process.

The question, as with critical race theory, is in how wide a net is cast. Sexually explicit content is one thing; targeting books that make students uncomfortable or deal in sensitive but very real subjects like racial discrimination is another.

There is clearly an audience in the conservative movement for more broadly excluding subjects involving the history of racism and how it might impact modern life. And while it’s difficult to capture the targeting of books on a quantitative level nationwide, this is an undersold subplot in the conservative effort to raise concerns about what children might learn in school."
I guess Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is next for erasure. How ironic. The title represents the temperature at which paper ignites and then burns.



What seacoaster and Kismet neglect to inform the Fanlax reader is that local Virginia TV stations including ABC, CBS and NBC refused to air an ad depicting the sexually explicit materials that were widely available to students in school libraries in the state, citing federal law which prohibits airing pornographic images, in several of these books, notably Gender Queer by Maia Kobae.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ima ... it-for-tv/

Beloved by Morrison is a different kettle of fish, no explicit sexual imagery like the others, but rather the intense written imagery of slaves as animals could be traumatic to a child reading. The book is more appropriate for college age kids. I’ve read the sections where this is graphic, and it is absolutely not appropriate for elementary or even high school kids.

These aren’t modern day book burners, but rather concerned parents. But please keep calling parents that! It should really work out well next fall. :lol:
Any school district serving up Toni Morrison works to elementary school students should have their heads examined and most 6th graders couldn't manage to pay enough attention to get through the first chapter let alone the entire book. As for high schoolers, what about Catcher in the Rye? Should that book be incinerated, too? The Great Gatsby by Fitzgerald, Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck? Lord of the Flies by Goldman? To Kill a Mockingbird by Lee? The Color Purple by Walker? Ulysses by Joyce. All were banned at one time or another and all were subsequently made into movies - should they no longer be shown or available online?

Sure happy you aren't in charge of making such decisions.

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:50 am
by Peter Brown
Kismet wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:14 am
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:01 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
seacoaster wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:39 pm We have really lost our way. Talk about regressive cancel culture? Building a country of incurious comforted morons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... get-books/

"Perhaps the most infamous quote of the 2021 Virginia governor’s race — and indeed of any 2021 race — belongs to Democrat Terry McAuliffe: “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”

What many people might not have fully processed is that the quote stemmed from a debate about books in schools. Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin (R) had attacked McAuliffe for, as governor, vetoing a bill to allow parents to opt their children out of reading assignments they deem to be explicit. The impetus was a famous book from Nobel laureate Toni Morrison, “Beloved,” about an enslaved Black woman who kills her 2-year-old daughter to prevent her from being enslaved herself.

While that effort took place years ago, it was rekindled as a political issue at a telling time. Not only are conservatives increasingly targeting school curriculums surrounding race, but there’s also a building and often-related effort to rid school libraries of certain books.

The effort has been varied in the degree of its fervor and the books it has targeted, but one particular episode this week showed just what can happen when it’s taken to its extremes. Shortly after the election result in Virginia, a pair of conservative school board members in the same state proposed not just banning certain books deemed to be sexually explicit, but burning them.

As the Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star reported Tuesday:

Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned.

“I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said, and Twigg said he wants to “see the books before we burn them so we can identify within our community that we are eradicating this bad stuff.”
Abuismail reportedly added that allowing one particular book to remain on the shelves even briefly meant the schools “would rather have our kids reading gay pornography than about Christ.”

It’s easy to caricature a particular movement with some of its most extreme promoters. And there is a demonstrated history of efforts to ban books in schools, including by liberals. Such efforts have often involved classics such as “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Of Mice and Men” for their depictions of race and use of racist language more commonly used at the time the books were written. More recently, conservatives have often challenged books teaching kids about LGBTQ issues.

But advocates say what’s happening now is more pronounced.

“What has taken us aback this year is the intensity with which school libraries are under attack,” said Nora Pelizzari, a spokeswoman at the National Coalition Against Censorship.

She added that the apparent coordination of the effort sets it apart: “Particularly when taken in concert with the legislative attempts to control school curricula, this feels like a more overarching attempt to purge schools of materials that people disagree with. It feels different than what we’ve seen in recent years.”

Even as the news broke Tuesday in Virginia, another school board just outside Wichita, announced that it was removing 29 books from circulation. Among them were another Morrison book, “The Bluest Eye,” and writings about racism in America including August Wilson’s Pulitzer Prize-winning play “Fences,” as well as “They Called Themselves the K.K.K.,” a history of the white supremacist group. The books haven’t technically been banned, but rather aren’t available for checking out pending a review.

“At this time, the district is not in a position to know if the books contained on this list meet our educational goals or not,” a school official said in an email.

The day before, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) issued an executive order calling on state education officials to review the books available to students for “pornography and other obscene content.” Abbott indicated before the order that such content needed to be examined and removed if it was found. He reportedly did not specify what the “obscene content” standard for books should be.

Abbott added Wednesday that the Texas Education Agency should report any instances of pornography being made available to minors “for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.”

The effort builds upon a review launched last month by state Rep. Michael Krause (R), who is running for state attorney general. Krause is targeting books that “contain material that might make students feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress because of their race or sex or convey that a student, by virtue of their race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.”

Krause doesn’t say what he intends to recommend about such books, but he accompanied his inquiry with a list of more than 800 of them, including two Pulitzer Prize winners: “The Confessions of Nat Turner” by William Styron and “Between the World and Me” by Ta-Nehisi Coates.

There has also been an effort by Republicans in Wisconsin not focused on books, but broadly on the use of certain terminology in teaching students. As the Hill’s Reid Wilson reported about the state GOP’s particular effort to ban critical race theory from schools:

[State Rep. Chuck] Wichgers (R), who represents Muskego in the legislature, attached an addendum to his legislation that included a list of “terms and concepts” that would violate the bill if it became law.

Among those words: “Woke,” “whiteness,” “White supremacy,” “structural bias,” “structural racism,” “systemic bias” and “systemic racism.” The bill would also bar “abolitionist teaching,” in a state that sent more than 91,000 soldiers to fight with the Union Army in the Civil War.

The list of barred words or concepts includes “equity,” “inclusivity education,” “multiculturalism” and “patriarchy,” as well as “social justice” and “cultural awareness.”

Back in September, a school district in Pennsylvania reversed a year-long freeze on certain books almost exclusively by or about people of color. A similar thing happened in Katy, Tex., near Houston, where graphic novels about Black children struggling to fit in were removed and quickly reinstated last month. Many such fights have been concentrated in Texas.

There has also been a recent effort by a conservative group in Tennessee to ban books written for young readers about the civil rights struggle. Supporters cite the anti-critical race theory law the state passed earlier this year. And school officials in Virginia Beach recently announced they’d review books, including ones about LGBTQ issues and Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye,” after complaints from school board members.

Indeed, oftentimes the books involved are the same.

As the Los Angeles Times reported this week, such battles are part of a much larger debate over excluding books that has been injected with new intensity amid the anti-critical race theory push and now, apparently, with the demonstrated electoral success of that approach.

The Spotsylvania County, Va., example is an important one to pick out. While the two members floating burning books have aligned with conservatives, the vote was unanimous. It was 6-0 in favor of reviewing the books for sexually explicit content. School officials expressed confidence in their vetting process but acknowledged it’s possible certain books with objectionable content got through that process.

The question, as with critical race theory, is in how wide a net is cast. Sexually explicit content is one thing; targeting books that make students uncomfortable or deal in sensitive but very real subjects like racial discrimination is another.

There is clearly an audience in the conservative movement for more broadly excluding subjects involving the history of racism and how it might impact modern life. And while it’s difficult to capture the targeting of books on a quantitative level nationwide, this is an undersold subplot in the conservative effort to raise concerns about what children might learn in school."
I guess Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is next for erasure. How ironic. The title represents the temperature at which paper ignites and then burns.



What seacoaster and Kismet neglect to inform the Fanlax reader is that local Virginia TV stations including ABC, CBS and NBC refused to air an ad depicting the sexually explicit materials that were widely available to students in school libraries in the state, citing federal law which prohibits airing pornographic images, in several of these books, notably Gender Queer by Maia Kobae.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ima ... it-for-tv/

Beloved by Morrison is a different kettle of fish, no explicit sexual imagery like the others, but rather the intense written imagery of slaves as animals could be traumatic to a child reading. The book is more appropriate for college age kids. I’ve read the sections where this is graphic, and it is absolutely not appropriate for elementary or even high school kids.

These aren’t modern day book burners, but rather concerned parents. But please keep calling parents that! It should really work out well next fall. :lol:
Any school district serving up Toni Morrison works to elementary school students should have their heads examined and most 6th graders couldn't manage to pay enough attention to get through the first chapter let alone the entire book. As for high schoolers, what about Catcher in the Rye? Should that book be incinerated, too? The Great Gatsby by Fitzgerald, Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck? Lord of the Flies by Goldman? To Kill a Mockingbird by Lee? The Color Purple by Walker? Ulysses by Joyce. All were banned at one time or another and all were subsequently made into movies - should they no longer be shown or available online?

Sure happy you aren't in charge of making such decisions.




None of the books you reference are in the same universe as Beloved regarding the vivid language. What I read of Beloved is really engrossing, I’m going to order it. She’s an excellent author. But sometimes books can be too much for young kids.

My instinct is always to trust the parents who are closest to the ground here. They aren’t nutcases. They have real concerns.

This is all besides the point. You’re referencing one of the only non-sexually explicit books that the parents wanted removed. Some of the drawn images in those other books, not the written word but actual images, are straight out of a pornographic magazine. Let’s put it this way: I could not post the images here at Fanlax. No one of sane mind should encourage that.

The problem with these school boards is they have attracted some indifferent overseers, far more concerned with their pay and bennies, and of course power. Parents historically trusted these folks to be just like them. The problem, as it always is, is once you start a bureaucracy, the bureaucracy prioritizes its own agenda. It’s not necessarily as if they are card carrying communists…they simply don’t care about the parents and kids any longer, elevating their own interests above everyone else’s. They begin to fight parents, much like you are doing, rather than listening to sincere objections.

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:57 am
by Kismet
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:50 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:14 am
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:01 am
Kismet wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:23 am
seacoaster wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:39 pm We have really lost our way. Talk about regressive cancel culture? Building a country of incurious comforted morons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... get-books/

"Perhaps the most infamous quote of the 2021 Virginia governor’s race — and indeed of any 2021 race — belongs to Democrat Terry McAuliffe: “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”

What many people might not have fully processed is that the quote stemmed from a debate about books in schools. Gov.-elect Glenn Youngkin (R) had attacked McAuliffe for, as governor, vetoing a bill to allow parents to opt their children out of reading assignments they deem to be explicit. The impetus was a famous book from Nobel laureate Toni Morrison, “Beloved,” about an enslaved Black woman who kills her 2-year-old daughter to prevent her from being enslaved herself.

While that effort took place years ago, it was rekindled as a political issue at a telling time. Not only are conservatives increasingly targeting school curriculums surrounding race, but there’s also a building and often-related effort to rid school libraries of certain books.

The effort has been varied in the degree of its fervor and the books it has targeted, but one particular episode this week showed just what can happen when it’s taken to its extremes. Shortly after the election result in Virginia, a pair of conservative school board members in the same state proposed not just banning certain books deemed to be sexually explicit, but burning them.

As the Fredericksburg Free-Lance Star reported Tuesday:

Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned.

“I think we should throw those books in a fire,” Abuismail said, and Twigg said he wants to “see the books before we burn them so we can identify within our community that we are eradicating this bad stuff.”
Abuismail reportedly added that allowing one particular book to remain on the shelves even briefly meant the schools “would rather have our kids reading gay pornography than about Christ.”

It’s easy to caricature a particular movement with some of its most extreme promoters. And there is a demonstrated history of efforts to ban books in schools, including by liberals. Such efforts have often involved classics such as “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “Of Mice and Men” for their depictions of race and use of racist language more commonly used at the time the books were written. More recently, conservatives have often challenged books teaching kids about LGBTQ issues.

But advocates say what’s happening now is more pronounced.

“What has taken us aback this year is the intensity with which school libraries are under attack,” said Nora Pelizzari, a spokeswoman at the National Coalition Against Censorship.

She added that the apparent coordination of the effort sets it apart: “Particularly when taken in concert with the legislative attempts to control school curricula, this feels like a more overarching attempt to purge schools of materials that people disagree with. It feels different than what we’ve seen in recent years.”

Even as the news broke Tuesday in Virginia, another school board just outside Wichita, announced that it was removing 29 books from circulation. Among them were another Morrison book, “The Bluest Eye,” and writings about racism in America including August Wilson’s Pulitzer Prize-winning play “Fences,” as well as “They Called Themselves the K.K.K.,” a history of the white supremacist group. The books haven’t technically been banned, but rather aren’t available for checking out pending a review.

“At this time, the district is not in a position to know if the books contained on this list meet our educational goals or not,” a school official said in an email.

The day before, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) issued an executive order calling on state education officials to review the books available to students for “pornography and other obscene content.” Abbott indicated before the order that such content needed to be examined and removed if it was found. He reportedly did not specify what the “obscene content” standard for books should be.

Abbott added Wednesday that the Texas Education Agency should report any instances of pornography being made available to minors “for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.”

The effort builds upon a review launched last month by state Rep. Michael Krause (R), who is running for state attorney general. Krause is targeting books that “contain material that might make students feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress because of their race or sex or convey that a student, by virtue of their race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.”

Krause doesn’t say what he intends to recommend about such books, but he accompanied his inquiry with a list of more than 800 of them, including two Pulitzer Prize winners: “The Confessions of Nat Turner” by William Styron and “Between the World and Me” by Ta-Nehisi Coates.

There has also been an effort by Republicans in Wisconsin not focused on books, but broadly on the use of certain terminology in teaching students. As the Hill’s Reid Wilson reported about the state GOP’s particular effort to ban critical race theory from schools:

[State Rep. Chuck] Wichgers (R), who represents Muskego in the legislature, attached an addendum to his legislation that included a list of “terms and concepts” that would violate the bill if it became law.

Among those words: “Woke,” “whiteness,” “White supremacy,” “structural bias,” “structural racism,” “systemic bias” and “systemic racism.” The bill would also bar “abolitionist teaching,” in a state that sent more than 91,000 soldiers to fight with the Union Army in the Civil War.

The list of barred words or concepts includes “equity,” “inclusivity education,” “multiculturalism” and “patriarchy,” as well as “social justice” and “cultural awareness.”

Back in September, a school district in Pennsylvania reversed a year-long freeze on certain books almost exclusively by or about people of color. A similar thing happened in Katy, Tex., near Houston, where graphic novels about Black children struggling to fit in were removed and quickly reinstated last month. Many such fights have been concentrated in Texas.

There has also been a recent effort by a conservative group in Tennessee to ban books written for young readers about the civil rights struggle. Supporters cite the anti-critical race theory law the state passed earlier this year. And school officials in Virginia Beach recently announced they’d review books, including ones about LGBTQ issues and Morrison’s “The Bluest Eye,” after complaints from school board members.

Indeed, oftentimes the books involved are the same.

As the Los Angeles Times reported this week, such battles are part of a much larger debate over excluding books that has been injected with new intensity amid the anti-critical race theory push and now, apparently, with the demonstrated electoral success of that approach.

The Spotsylvania County, Va., example is an important one to pick out. While the two members floating burning books have aligned with conservatives, the vote was unanimous. It was 6-0 in favor of reviewing the books for sexually explicit content. School officials expressed confidence in their vetting process but acknowledged it’s possible certain books with objectionable content got through that process.

The question, as with critical race theory, is in how wide a net is cast. Sexually explicit content is one thing; targeting books that make students uncomfortable or deal in sensitive but very real subjects like racial discrimination is another.

There is clearly an audience in the conservative movement for more broadly excluding subjects involving the history of racism and how it might impact modern life. And while it’s difficult to capture the targeting of books on a quantitative level nationwide, this is an undersold subplot in the conservative effort to raise concerns about what children might learn in school."
I guess Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is next for erasure. How ironic. The title represents the temperature at which paper ignites and then burns.



What seacoaster and Kismet neglect to inform the Fanlax reader is that local Virginia TV stations including ABC, CBS and NBC refused to air an ad depicting the sexually explicit materials that were widely available to students in school libraries in the state, citing federal law which prohibits airing pornographic images, in several of these books, notably Gender Queer by Maia Kobae.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ima ... it-for-tv/

Beloved by Morrison is a different kettle of fish, no explicit sexual imagery like the others, but rather the intense written imagery of slaves as animals could be traumatic to a child reading. The book is more appropriate for college age kids. I’ve read the sections where this is graphic, and it is absolutely not appropriate for elementary or even high school kids.

These aren’t modern day book burners, but rather concerned parents. But please keep calling parents that! It should really work out well next fall. :lol:
Any school district serving up Toni Morrison works to elementary school students should have their heads examined and most 6th graders couldn't manage to pay enough attention to get through the first chapter let alone the entire book. As for high schoolers, what about Catcher in the Rye? Should that book be incinerated, too? The Great Gatsby by Fitzgerald, Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck? Lord of the Flies by Goldman? To Kill a Mockingbird by Lee? The Color Purple by Walker? Ulysses by Joyce. All were banned at one time or another and all were subsequently made into movies - should they no longer be shown or available online?

Sure happy you aren't in charge of making such decisions.




None of the books you reference are in the same universe as Beloved regarding the vivid language. What I read of Beloved is really engrossing, I’m going to order it. She’s an excellent author. But sometimes books can be too much for young kids.

My instinct is always to trust the parents who are closest to the ground here. They aren’t nutcases. They have real concerns.

This is all besides the point. You’re referencing one of the only non-sexually explicit books that the parents wanted removed. Some of the drawn images in those other books, not the written word but actual images, are straight out of a pornographic magazine. Let’s put it this way: I could not post the images here at Fanlax. No one of sane mind should encourage that.

The problem with these school boards is they have attracted some indifferent overseers, far more concerned with their pay and bennies, and of course power. Parents historically trusted these folks to be just like them. The problem, as it always is, is once you start a bureaucracy, the bureaucracy prioritizes its own agenda. It’s not necessarily as if they are card carrying communists…they simply don’t care about the parents and kids any longer, elevating their own interests above everyone else’s. They begin to fight parents, much like you are doing, rather than listening to sincere objections.
Suggest you visit a library as it's clear you haven't been to one lately. Read up on the history of all the books I mentioned.
Lastly, you're the one who mentioned parents. I didn't say a thing about them let alone fighting with them.

The Far-Right MAGA Trash Resembles China’s Communist Party

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 am
by DocBarrister
It is a great irony that the anti-Asian bigots in America who criticize the “ChiComs” resemble those very same ChiComs.

The far-right, insular, ultra-conservative, nationalist Communist Party of Xi Xinping shares many of the same characteristics of the far-right, insular, ultra-conservative, nationalist Republican Party of Donald Trump. Both are based on racism, bigotry, bizarre ideologic extremism and conspiracy theories, anti-feminism, anti-environmentalism, anti-LGBTQ bigotry, anti-democratic authoritarianism, anti-press hostility, anti-minority hatred and violence, anti-judicial totalitarianism, and anti-intellectual ignorance and stupidity. Xi Xinping is committing genocide against the minority Uyghurs. Does anyone truly believe that America’s far-right under authoritarian garbage like Donald Trump and Mike Flynn (who recently advocated imposing one religion on all of America https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5814 ... ligion?amp ) are incapable of genocide?

Since taking office in late 2012, Xi has repeatedly warned against the "infiltration" of Western values such as democracy, press freedom and judicial independence. He has clamped down on foreign NGOs, churches, as well as Western textbooks — all seen as vehicles for undue foreign influence.

That has fueled a growing strand of narrow-minded nationalism, which casts suspicion on any foreign ties and views feminism, the LGBTQ movement, and even environmentalism as stooges of Western influence designed to undermine China.

Since the pandemic, that intolerance has only grown.
In June, nearly 200 Chinese intellectuals who participated in a Japanese government-sponsored exchange program were attacked on Chinese social media and branded "traitors" — for trips they took years ago.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/china/ch ... index.html

The resemblance between Xi Xinping’s Communist Party and Donald Trump’s Republican Party are truly disturbing. They share common anti-democratic, authoritarian, and reactionary values. They both hate ethnic minorities. And they both seek to impose a hateful right-wing ideology on the entire population.

A dangerous irony that the right-wing bigots who decry the “ChiComs” resemble them so closely.

DocBarrister

Re: The Far-Right MAGA Trash Resembles China’s Communist Party

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:47 am
by Peter Brown
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 am It is a great irony that the anti-Asian bigots in America who criticize the “ChiComs” resemble those very same ChiComs.

The far-right, insular, ultra-conservative, nationalist Communist Party of Xi Xinping shares many of the same characteristics of the far-right, insular, ultra-conservative, nationalist Republican Party of Donald Trump. Both are based on racism, bigotry, bizarre ideologic extremism and conspiracy theories, anti-feminism, anti-environmentalism, anti-LGBTQ bigotry, anti-democratic authoritarianism, anti-press hostility, anti-minority hatred and violence, anti-judicial totalitarianism, and anti-intellectual ignorance and stupidity. Xi Xinping is committing genocide against the minority Uyghurs. Does anyone truly believe that America’s far-right under authoritarian garbage like Donald Trump and Mike Flynn (who recently advocated imposing one religion on all of America https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5814 ... ligion?amp ) are incapable of genocide?

Since taking office in late 2012, Xi has repeatedly warned against the "infiltration" of Western values such as democracy, press freedom and judicial independence. He has clamped down on foreign NGOs, churches, as well as Western textbooks — all seen as vehicles for undue foreign influence.

That has fueled a growing strand of narrow-minded nationalism, which casts suspicion on any foreign ties and views feminism, the LGBTQ movement, and even environmentalism as stooges of Western influence designed to undermine China.

Since the pandemic, that intolerance has only grown.
In June, nearly 200 Chinese intellectuals who participated in a Japanese government-sponsored exchange program were attacked on Chinese social media and branded "traitors" — for trips they took years ago.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/china/ch ... index.html

The resemblance between Xi Xinping’s Communist Party and Donald Trump’s Republican Party are truly disturbing. They share common anti-democratic, authoritarian, and reactionary values. They both hate ethnic minorities. And they both seek to impose a hateful right-wing ideology on the entire population.

A dangerous irony that the right-wing bigots who decry the “ChiComs” resemble them so closely.

DocBarrister



Those darned Republicans and their hatred of ethnic minorities…electing that black female Winsome Sears as Lt Governor of Virginia (will be governor in 4 years) and a Latino as Attorney General, giving Sen Tim Scott the highest approval ranking of any Republican by Republicans, drafting Herschel Walker to run as Senator from Georgia, seeing if Nikki Hailey will be the next POTUS nominee, having Jeannette Nunoz as alt Governor of Florida (will be elected Governor when RD goes on to White House), and so on and so on and so on.

I even saw that Governor Elect Glenn Youngkin attended church at an all black baptist church this weekend.

That hatred!

(oh, also, Ralph a Northam never resigned after wearing back face or a KKK hood on is college yearbook page…tsk tsk)

Re: The Far-Right MAGA Trash Resembles China’s Communist Party

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:16 am
by DocBarrister
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:47 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 am It is a great irony that the anti-Asian bigots in America who criticize the “ChiComs” resemble those very same ChiComs.

The far-right, insular, ultra-conservative, nationalist Communist Party of Xi Xinping shares many of the same characteristics of the far-right, insular, ultra-conservative, nationalist Republican Party of Donald Trump. Both are based on racism, bigotry, bizarre ideologic extremism and conspiracy theories, anti-feminism, anti-environmentalism, anti-LGBTQ bigotry, anti-democratic authoritarianism, anti-press hostility, anti-minority hatred and violence, anti-judicial totalitarianism, and anti-intellectual ignorance and stupidity. Xi Xinping is committing genocide against the minority Uyghurs. Does anyone truly believe that America’s far-right under authoritarian garbage like Donald Trump and Mike Flynn (who recently advocated imposing one religion on all of America https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5814 ... ligion?amp ) are incapable of genocide?

Since taking office in late 2012, Xi has repeatedly warned against the "infiltration" of Western values such as democracy, press freedom and judicial independence. He has clamped down on foreign NGOs, churches, as well as Western textbooks — all seen as vehicles for undue foreign influence.

That has fueled a growing strand of narrow-minded nationalism, which casts suspicion on any foreign ties and views feminism, the LGBTQ movement, and even environmentalism as stooges of Western influence designed to undermine China.

Since the pandemic, that intolerance has only grown.
In June, nearly 200 Chinese intellectuals who participated in a Japanese government-sponsored exchange program were attacked on Chinese social media and branded "traitors" — for trips they took years ago.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/china/ch ... index.html

The resemblance between Xi Xinping’s Communist Party and Donald Trump’s Republican Party are truly disturbing. They share common anti-democratic, authoritarian, and reactionary values. They both hate ethnic minorities. And they both seek to impose a hateful right-wing ideology on the entire population.

A dangerous irony that the right-wing bigots who decry the “ChiComs” resemble them so closely.

DocBarrister



Those darned Republicans and their hatred of ethnic minorities…electing that black female Winsome Sears as Lt Governor of Virginia (will be governor in 4 years) and a Latino as Attorney General, giving Sen Tim Scott the highest approval ranking of any Republican by Republicans, drafting Herschel Walker to run as Senator from Georgia, seeing if Nikki Hailey will be the next POTUS nominee, having Jeannette Nunoz as alt Governor of Florida (will be elected Governor when RD goes on to White House), and so on and so on and so on.

I even saw that Governor Elect Glenn Youngkin attended church at an all black baptist church this weekend.

That hatred!

(oh, also, Ralph a Northam never resigned after wearing back face or a KKK hood on is college yearbook page…tsk tsk)
Those people stand out in the Republican Party because of how uncommon they are in the overwhelmingly white, racist GOP.

Another shared trait between China’s Communist Party and the Republican Party … they are now largely personality cults.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/202 ... boost.html

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... ?_amp=true

DocBarrister

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm
by kramerica.inc
Cue the race baiting in 3, 2...oh wait, imagine that, it's already happened!

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:56 pm
by seacoaster
Reversing history. More dictators, and more global Kruppwerks propping them up:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... aign=share

Snippet:

"The future of democracy may well be decided in a drab office building on the outskirts of Vilnius, alongside a highway crammed with impatient drivers heading out of town.

I met Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya there this spring, in a room that held a conference table, a whiteboard, and not much else. Her team—more than a dozen young journalists, bloggers, vloggers, and activists—was in the process of changing offices. But that wasn’t the only reason the space felt stale and perfunctory. None of them, especially not Tsikhanouskaya, really wanted to be in this ugly building, or in the Lithuanian capital at all. She is there because she probably won the 2020 presidential election in Belarus, and because the Belarusian dictator she probably defeated, Alexander Lukashenko, forced her out of the country immediately afterward. Lithuania offered her asylum. Her husband, Siarhei Tsikhanouski, remains imprisoned in Belarus.

Here is the first thing she said to me: “My story is a little bit different from other people.” This is what she tells everyone—that hers was not the typical life of a dissident or budding politician. Before the spring of 2020, she didn’t have much time for television or newspapers. She has two children, one of whom was born deaf. On an ordinary day, she would take them to kindergarten, to the doctor, to the park.

Then her husband bought a house and ran into the concrete wall of Belarusian bureaucracy and corruption. Exasperated, he started making videos about his experiences, and those of others. These videos yielded a YouTube channel; the channel attracted thousands of followers. He went around the country, recording the frustrations of his fellow citizens, driving a car with the phrase “Real News” plastered on the side. Siarhei Tsikhanouski held up a mirror to his society. People saw themselves in that mirror and responded with the kind of enthusiasm that opposition politicians had found hard to create in Belarus.

“At the beginning it was really difficult because people were afraid,” Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya told me. “But step-by-step, slowly, they realized that Siarhei isn’t afraid.” He wasn’t afraid to speak the truth as he saw it; his absence of fear inspired others. He decided to run for president. The regime, recognizing the power of Siarhei’s mirror, would not allow him to register his candidacy, just as it had not allowed him to register the ownership of his house. It ended his campaign and arrested him.

Tsikhanouskaya ran in his place, with no motive other than “to show my love for him.” The police and bureaucrats let her. Because what harm could she do, this simple housewife, this woman with no political experience? And so, in July 2020, she registered as a candidate. Unlike her husband, she was afraid. She woke up “so scared” every morning, she told me, and sometimes she stayed scared all day long. But she kept going. Which was, though she doesn’t say so, incredibly brave. “You feel this responsibility, you wake up with this pain for those people who are in jail, you go to bed with the same feeling.”

Unexpectedly, Tsikhanouskaya was a success—not despite her inexperience, but because of it. Her campaign became a campaign about ordinary people standing up to the regime. Two other prominent opposition politicians endorsed her after their own campaigns were blocked, and when the wife of one of them and the female campaign manager of the other were photographed alongside Tsikhanouskaya, her campaign became something more: a campaign about ordinary women—women who had been neglected, women who had no voice, even just women who loved their husbands. In return, the regime targeted all three of these women. Tsikhanouskaya received an anonymous threat: Her children would be “sent to an orphanage.” She dispatched them with her mother abroad, to Vilnius, and kept campaigning.

On August 9, election officials announced that Lukashenko had won 80 percent of the vote, a number nobody believed. The internet was cut off, and Tsikhanouskaya was detained by police and then forced out of the country. Mass demonstrations unfolded across Belarus. These were both a spontaneous outburst of feeling—a popular response to the stolen election—and a carefully coordinated project run by young people, some based in Warsaw, who had been experimenting with social media and new forms of communication for several years. For a brief, tantalizing moment, it looked like this democratic uprising might prevail. Belarusians shared a sense of national unity they had never felt before. The regime immediately pushed back, with real brutality. Yet the mood at the protests was generally happy, optimistic; people literally danced in the streets. In a country of fewer than 10 million, up to 1.5 million people would come out in a single day, among them pensioners, villagers, factory workers, and even, in a few places, members of the police and the security services, some of whom removed insignia from their uniforms or threw them in the garbage.

Tsikhanouskaya says she and many others naively believed that under this pressure, the dictator would just give up. “We thought he would understand that we are against him,” she told me. “That people don’t want to live under his dictatorship, that he lost the elections.” They had no other plan.

At first, Lukashenko seemed to have no plan either. But his neighbors did. On August 18, a plane belonging to the FSB, the Russian security services, flew from Moscow to Minsk. Soon after that, Lukashenko’s tactics underwent a dramatic change. Stephen Biegun, who was the U.S. deputy secretary of state at the time, describes the change as a shift to “more sophisticated, more controlled ways to repress the population.” Belarus became a textbook example of what the journalist William J. Dobson has called “the dictator’s learning curve”: Techniques that had been used successfully in the past to repress crowds in Russia were seamlessly transferred to Belarus, along with personnel who understood how to deploy them. Russian television journalists arrived to replace the Belarusian journalists who had gone on strike, and immediately stepped up the campaign to portray the demonstrations as the work of Americans and other foreign “enemies.” Russian police appear to have supplemented their Belarusian colleagues, or at least given them advice, and a policy of selective arrests began. As Vladimir Putin figured out a long time ago, mass arrests are unnecessary if you can jail, torture, or possibly murder just a few key people. The rest will be frightened into staying home. Eventually they will become apathetic, because they believe nothing can change.

The Lukashenko rescue package, reminiscent of the one Putin had designed for Bashar al-Assad in Syria six years earlier, contained economic elements too. Russian companies offered markets for Belarusian products that had been banned by the democratic West—for example, smuggling Belarusian cigarettes into the European Union. Some of this was possible because the two countries share a language. (Though roughly a third to half of the country speaks Belarusian, most public business in Belarus is conducted in Russian.) But this close cooperation was also possible because Lukashenko and Putin, though they famously dislike each other, share a common way of seeing the world. Both believe that their personal survival is more important than the well-being of their people. Both believe that a change of regime would result in their death, imprisonment, or exile.

Both also learned lessons from the Arab Spring, as well as from the more distant memory of 1989, when Communist dictatorships fell like dominoes: Democratic revolutions are contagious. If you can stamp them out in one country, you might prevent them from starting in others. The anti-corruption, prodemocracy demonstrations of 2014 in Ukraine, which resulted in the overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych’s government, reinforced this fear of democratic contagion. Putin was enraged by those protests, not least because of the precedent they set. After all, if Ukrainians could get rid of their corrupt dictator, why wouldn’t Russians want to do the same?

Lukashenko gladly accepted Russian help, turned against his people, and transformed himself from an autocratic, patriarchal grandfather—a kind of national collective-farm boss—into a tyrant who revels in cruelty. Reassured by Putin’s support, he began breaking new ground. Not just selective arrests—a year later, human-rights activists say that more than 800 political prisoners remain in jail—but torture. Not just torture but rape. Not just torture and rape but kidnapping and, quite possibly, murder.

Lukashenko’s sneering defiance of the rule of law—he issues stony-faced denials of the existence of political repression in his country—and of anything resembling decency spread beyond his borders. In May 2021, Belarusian air traffic control forced an Irish-owned Ryanair passenger plane to land in Minsk so that one of the passengers, Roman Protasevich, a young dissident living in exile, could be arrested; he later made public confessions on television that appeared to be coerced. In August, another young dissident living in exile, Vitaly Shishov, was found hanged in a Kyiv park. At about the same time, Lukashenko’s regime set out to destabilize its EU neighbors by forcing streams of refugees across their borders: Belarus lured Afghan and Iraqi refugees to Minsk with a proffer of tourist visas, then escorted them to the borders of Lithuania, Latvia, and Poland and forced them at gunpoint to cross, illegally.

Lukashenko began to act, in other words, as if he were untouchable, both at home and abroad. He began breaking not only the laws and customs of his own country, but also the laws and customs of other countries, and of the international community—laws regarding air traffic control, homicide, borders. Exiles flowed out of the country; Tsikhanouskaya’s team scrambled to book hotel rooms or Airbnbs in Vilnius, to find means of support, to learn new languages. Tsikhanouskaya herself had to make another, even more difficult transition—from people’s-choice candidate to sophisticated diplomat. This time her inexperience initially worked against her. At first, she thought that if she could just speak with Angela Merkel or Emmanuel Macron, one of them could fix the problem. “I was sure they are so powerful that they can call Lukashenko and say, ‘Stop! How dare you?’ ” she told me. But they could not.

So she tried to talk as foreign leaders did, to speak in sophisticated political language. That didn’t work either. The experience was demoralizing: “It’s very difficult sometimes to talk about your people, about their sufferings, and see the emptiness in the eyes of those you are talking to.” She began using the plain English that she had learned in school, in order to convey plain things. “I started to tell stories that would touch their hearts. I tried to make them feel just a little of the pain that Belarusians feel.” Now she tells anyone who will listen exactly what she told me: I am an ordinary person, a housewife, a mother of two children, and I am in politics because other ordinary people are being beaten naked in prison cells. What she wants is sanctions, democratic unity, pressure on the regime—anything that will raise the cost for Lukashenko to stay in power, for Russia to keep him in power. Anything that might induce the business and security elites in Belarus to abandon him. Anything that might persuade China and Iran to keep out.

To her surprise, Tsikhanouskaya became, for the second time, a runaway success. She charmed Merkel and Macron, and the diplomats of multiple countries. In July, she met President Joe Biden, who subsequently broadened American sanctions on Belarus to include major companies in several industries (tobacco, potash, construction) and their executives. The EU had already banned a range of people, companies, and technologies from Belarus; after the Ryanair kidnapping, the EU and the U.K. banned the Belarusian national airline as well. What was once a booming trade between Belarus and Europe has been reduced to a trickle. Tsikhanouskaya inspires people to make sacrifices of their own. The Lithuanian foreign minister, Gabrielius Landsbergis, told me that his country was proud to host her, even if it meant trouble on the border. “If we’re not free to invite other free people into our country because it’s somehow not safe, then the question is, can we consider ourselves free?”

Tsikhanouskaya has acquired many other supporters and admirers. She has not only the talented young activists in Vilnius, but colleagues in Poland and Ukraine as well. She promotes values that unite millions of her compatriots, including pensioners like Nina Bahinskaya, a great-grandmother who has been filmed shouting at the police, and ordinary working people like Siarhei Hardziyevich, a 50-year-old journalist from a provincial town, Drahichyn, who was convicted of “insulting the president.” On her side she also has the friends and relatives of the hundreds of political prisoners who, like her own husband, are paying a high price just because they want to live in a country with free elections.

Most of all, though, Tsikhanouskaya has on her side the combined narrative power of what we used to call the free world. She has the language of human rights, democracy, and justice. She has the NGOs and human-rights organizations that work inside the United Nations and other international institutions to put pressure on autocratic regimes. She has the support of people around the world who still fervently believe that politics can be made more civilized, more rational, more humane, who can see in her an authentic representative of that cause.

But will that be enough? A lot depends on the answer.

All of us have in our minds a cartoon image of what an autocratic state looks like. There is a bad man at the top. He controls the police. The police threaten the people with violence. There are evil collaborators, and maybe some brave dissidents.

But in the 21st century, that cartoon bears little resemblance to reality. Nowadays, autocracies are run not by one bad guy, but by sophisticated networks composed of kleptocratic financial structures, security services (military, police, paramilitary groups, surveillance), and professional propagandists. The members of these networks are connected not only within a given country, but among many countries. The corrupt, state-controlled companies in one dictatorship do business with corrupt, state-controlled companies in another. The police in one country can arm, equip, and train the police in another. The propagandists share resources—the troll farms that promote one dictator’s propaganda can also be used to promote the propaganda of another—and themes, pounding home the same messages about the weakness of democracy and the evil of America.

This is not to say that there is some supersecret room where bad guys meet, as in a James Bond movie. Nor does the new autocratic alliance have a unifying ideology. Among modern autocrats are people who call themselves communists, nationalists, and theocrats. No one country leads this group. Washington likes to talk about Chinese influence, but what really bonds the members of this club is a common desire to preserve and enhance their personal power and wealth. Unlike military or political alliances from other times and places, the members of this group don’t operate like a bloc, but rather like an agglomeration of companies—call it Autocracy Inc. Their links are cemented not by ideals but by deals—deals designed to take the edge off Western economic boycotts, or to make them personally rich—which is why they can operate across geographical and historical lines.

Thus in theory, Belarus is an international pariah—Belarusian planes cannot land in Europe, many Belarusian goods cannot be sold in the U.S., Belarus’s shocking brutality has been criticized by many international institutions. But in practice, the country remains a respected member of Autocracy Inc. Despite Lukashenko’s flagrant flouting of international norms, despite his reaching across borders to break laws, Belarus remains the site of one of China’s largest overseas development projects. Iran has expanded its relationship with Belarus over the past year. Cuban officials have expressed their solidarity with Lukashenko at the UN, calling for an end to “foreign interference” in the country’s affairs.

....

Today, the most brutal members of Autocracy Inc. don’t much care if their countries are criticized, or by whom. The leaders of Myanmar don’t really have any ideology beyond nationalism, self-enrichment, and the desire to remain in power. The leaders of Iran confidently discount the views of Western infidels. The leaders of Cuba and Venezuela dismiss the statements of foreigners on the grounds that they are “imperialists.” The leaders of China have spent a decade disputing the human-rights language long used by international institutions, successfully convincing many people around the world that these “Western” concepts don’t apply to them. Russia has gone beyond merely ignoring foreign criticism to outright mocking it. After the Russian dissident Alexei Navalny was arrested earlier this year, Amnesty International designated him a “prisoner of conscience,” a venerable term that the human-rights organization has been using since the 1960s. Russian social-media trolls immediately mounted a campaign designed to draw Amnesty’s attention to 15-year-old statements by Navalny that seemed to break the group’s rules on offensive language. Amnesty took the bait and removed the title. Then, when Amnesty officials realized they’d been manipulated by trolls, they restored it. Russian state media cackled derisively. It was not a good moment for the human-rights movement.

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:10 pm
by Peter Brown
kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm Cue the race baiting in 3, 2...oh wait, imagine that, it's already happened!



KRAM: Texas just got more conservative and didn’t even have to win a race!!!

https://thetexan.news/south-texas-democ ... o-the-gop/

“Without even winning a race, Texas Republicans have increased their ranks by one this week as Rep. Ryan Guillen of Rio Grande City announced his switch to the Republican Party.

The now-former Democrat, who’s served in the Texas House since 2003, announced the party affiliation switch in Floresville, the Wilson County seat on Monday morning.

“Something is happening in South Texas. Many of us are waking up to the fact that the values in Washington D.C. are not our values in South Texas,” Guillen said at the announcement. “I’m proud to continue voting the way I have and not doing so against my party.”

Guillen was flanked by some of the state’s top Republican officials such as Governor Greg Abbott, Speaker Dade Phelan (R-Beaumont), and Texas GOP Chairman Matt Rinaldi.”

Music to my ears. More evidence of the Latino tsunami coming to the good side!!!! I know DocB says R’s are racist, but I dunno…we look like a big tent of family oriented taxpayers without regard for skin color!!! :lol:

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:59 pm
by DocBarrister
kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm Cue the race baiting in 3, 2...oh wait, imagine that, it's already happened!
Exhibit A

DocBarrister ;)

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:59 pm
by DocBarrister
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:10 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm Cue the race baiting in 3, 2...oh wait, imagine that, it's already happened!



KRAM: Texas just got more conservative and didn’t even have to win a race!!!

https://thetexan.news/south-texas-democ ... o-the-gop/

“Without even winning a race, Texas Republicans have increased their ranks by one this week as Rep. Ryan Guillen of Rio Grande City announced his switch to the Republican Party.

The now-former Democrat, who’s served in the Texas House since 2003, announced the party affiliation switch in Floresville, the Wilson County seat on Monday morning.

“Something is happening in South Texas. Many of us are waking up to the fact that the values in Washington D.C. are not our values in South Texas,” Guillen said at the announcement. “I’m proud to continue voting the way I have and not doing so against my party.”

Guillen was flanked by some of the state’s top Republican officials such as Governor Greg Abbott, Speaker Dade Phelan (R-Beaumont), and Texas GOP Chairman Matt Rinaldi.”

Music to my ears. More evidence of the Latino tsunami coming to the good side!!!! I know DocB says R’s are racist, but I dunno…we look like a big tent of family oriented taxpayers without regard for skin color!!! :lol:
Exhibit B

DocBarrister :P

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:18 pm
by Peter Brown
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:59 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:10 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm Cue the race baiting in 3, 2...oh wait, imagine that, it's already happened!



KRAM: Texas just got more conservative and didn’t even have to win a race!!!

https://thetexan.news/south-texas-democ ... o-the-gop/

“Without even winning a race, Texas Republicans have increased their ranks by one this week as Rep. Ryan Guillen of Rio Grande City announced his switch to the Republican Party.

The now-former Democrat, who’s served in the Texas House since 2003, announced the party affiliation switch in Floresville, the Wilson County seat on Monday morning.

“Something is happening in South Texas. Many of us are waking up to the fact that the values in Washington D.C. are not our values in South Texas,” Guillen said at the announcement. “I’m proud to continue voting the way I have and not doing so against my party.”

Guillen was flanked by some of the state’s top Republican officials such as Governor Greg Abbott, Speaker Dade Phelan (R-Beaumont), and Texas GOP Chairman Matt Rinaldi.”

Music to my ears. More evidence of the Latino tsunami coming to the good side!!!! I know DocB says R’s are racist, but I dunno…we look like a big tent of family oriented taxpayers without regard for skin color!!! :lol:
Exhibit B

DocBarrister :P



Tulsi wants a word.

https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard/status ... 13410?s=21

:lol:

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 am
by old salt
Andrew Sullivan, on 60 Minutes, on his inspiration -- British Conservative philosopher Michael Oakeshott...
" he defined conservatism as really a defense of what is, a love of what you already have, & fear that it could all disappear, a sense of the fragility of the world, & the importance of being pragmatic, not having some ideological abstraction you want to force onto reality, but understanding that reality is something that can give you occasions for change, which we do need, but also warnings of excessive change & excessive radicalism."

https://www.azquotes.com/author/18709-M ... _Oakeshott

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:36 am
by seacoaster
old salt wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:35 am Andrew Sullivan, on 60 Minutes, on his inspiration -- British Conservative philosopher Michael Oakeshott...
" he defined conservatism as really a defense of what is, a love of what you already have, & fear that it could all disappear, a sense of the fragility of the world, & the importance of being pragmatic, not having some ideological abstraction you want to force onto reality, but understanding that reality is something that can give you occasions for change, which we do need, but also warnings of excessive change & excessive radicalism."

https://www.azquotes.com/author/18709-M ... _Oakeshott
That's a pretty good armchair definition, which includes some flexibility for one's times. Meanwhile, in real life, it's pretty hard to understand what the term means in the GOP today, right? It looks like it means rigid loyalty to the Lie:

https://wsbt.com/news/nation-world/wyom ... republican

"The Wyoming Republican Party will no longer recognize Liz Cheney as a member of the GOP in its second formal rebuke for her criticism of former President Donald Trump.

The 31-29 vote Saturday in Buffalo, Wyoming, by the state party central committee followed votes by local GOP officials in about one-third of Wyoming's 23 counties to no longer recognize Cheney as a Republican.

In February, the Wyoming GOP central committee voted overwhelmingly to censure Cheney, Wyoming's lone U.S. representative, for voting to impeach Trump for his role in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol.

Cheney has described her vote to impeach Trump as an act of conscience in defense of the Constitution. Trump "incited the mob" and "lit the flame" of that day's events, Cheney said after the attack.

It's "laughable" for anybody to suggest Cheney isn't a "conservative Republican," Cheney spokesman Jeremy Adler said by text message Monday.

Cheney is now facing at least four Republican opponents in the 2022 primary including Cheyenne attorney Harriet Hageman, whom Trump has endorsed. Hageman in a statement called the latest state GOP central committee vote "fitting," the Casper Star-Tribune reported.

"Liz Cheney stopped recognizing what Wyomingites care about a long time ago. When she launched her war against President Trump, she completely broke with where we are as a state," Hageman said.

In May, Republicans in Washington, D.C., removed Cheney from a top congressional GOP leadership position after she continued to criticize Trump's false claims that voter fraud cost him re-election.

Cheney had survived an earlier attempt to remove her as chairwoman of the House Republican Conference, a role that shapes GOP messaging in the chamber."

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:59 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Salty are there any Trump supporters you wouldn't want as part of the GOP?

We used to actually reject certain kinds of folks.

I agree re the challenge, but it's pretty clear that without a wholesale repudiation of Trump...by the Party...those leaving/not voting GOP will be like me, not the Proud Boys, the QAnon folks, etc.

I don't think it's just a matter of Trump fading (which he shows no sign of actually doing), it's going to require wholesale repudiation of the Big Lie and a rejection of the crazies and extremists before folks like me will vote for any of them who don't repudiate such.

And that's getting to be an ever rarer breed.

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:09 pm
by Peter Brown
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:59 pm Salty are there any Trump supporters you wouldn't want as part of the GOP?

We used to actually reject certain kinds of folks.

I agree re the challenge, but it's pretty clear that without a wholesale repudiation of Trump...by the Party...those leaving/not voting GOP will be like me, not the Proud Boys, the QAnon folks, etc.

I don't think it's just a matter of Trump fading (which he shows no sign of actually doing), it's going to require wholesale repudiation of the Big Lie and a rejection of the crazies and extremists before folks like me will vote for any of them who don't repudiate such.

And that's getting to be an ever rarer breed.



This is yet another in a very long line of really un-self aware posts. Disregarding the recent November voting for Republicans over Democrats across the country, you might wish to take a look at some recent polling showing your preferred D’s getting actually smoked in head to head comps.

Democrats concerned about the party’s prospects of keeping control of Congress were hammered with more bad news on Tuesday, with a key poll showing that Republicans now hold a ten-percentage-point lead among registered voters.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... ince-1981/

Who are you trying to convince that your personal travail here is significant beyond just you?

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:11 pm
by a fan
Peter Brown wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:09 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:59 pm Salty are there any Trump supporters you wouldn't want as part of the GOP?

We used to actually reject certain kinds of folks.

I agree re the challenge, but it's pretty clear that without a wholesale repudiation of Trump...by the Party...those leaving/not voting GOP will be like me, not the Proud Boys, the QAnon folks, etc.

I don't think it's just a matter of Trump fading (which he shows no sign of actually doing), it's going to require wholesale repudiation of the Big Lie and a rejection of the crazies and extremists before folks like me will vote for any of them who don't repudiate such.

And that's getting to be an ever rarer breed.



This is yet another in a very long line of really un-self aware posts. Disregarding the recent November voting for Republicans over Democrats across the country, you might wish to take a look at some recent polling showing your preferred D’s getting actually smoked in head to head comps.

Democrats concerned about the party’s prospects of keeping control of Congress were hammered with more bad news on Tuesday, with a key poll showing that Republicans now hold a ten-percentage-point lead among registered voters.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... ince-1981/

Who are you trying to convince that your personal travail here is significant beyond just you?
:lol: Pete is unable to distinguish between winning an election, and actually governing according to conservative principles.

It's hilarious.

Re: Conservative Ideology

Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:16 pm
by Peter Brown
a fan wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:11 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:09 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:59 pm Salty are there any Trump supporters you wouldn't want as part of the GOP?

We used to actually reject certain kinds of folks.

I agree re the challenge, but it's pretty clear that without a wholesale repudiation of Trump...by the Party...those leaving/not voting GOP will be like me, not the Proud Boys, the QAnon folks, etc.

I don't think it's just a matter of Trump fading (which he shows no sign of actually doing), it's going to require wholesale repudiation of the Big Lie and a rejection of the crazies and extremists before folks like me will vote for any of them who don't repudiate such.

And that's getting to be an ever rarer breed.



This is yet another in a very long line of really un-self aware posts. Disregarding the recent November voting for Republicans over Democrats across the country, you might wish to take a look at some recent polling showing your preferred D’s getting actually smoked in head to head comps.

Democrats concerned about the party’s prospects of keeping control of Congress were hammered with more bad news on Tuesday, with a key poll showing that Republicans now hold a ten-percentage-point lead among registered voters.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... ince-1981/

Who are you trying to convince that your personal travail here is significant beyond just you?
:lol: Pete is unable to distinguish between winning an election, and actually governing according to conservative principles.

It's hilarious.



It’s lunacy to say that when I live in a state where we have the most conservative governor in America who is soon to coast to re-election.