JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[youthathletics]

I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for Afghan resistance to the Soviets, nor the various decisions that preceded him...but yeah, the precipitous withdrawal commitment was remarkably stupid and entirely owned by him.

But note, I don't give Biden a pass either...at the very least, the withdrawal could have been better executed to enable the "friendlies" safe haven in the US. Better yet, a small international force was, and could have remained, effective in keeping the Taliban at bay. IMO.

You gotta admit it's rather rich for Trump to be critiquing Biden, and downright comical for the GOP to be scrubbing its website.

Unbelievable BS. Biden set & delayed the departure date (for symbolic purposes, at the peak of the fighting season). He could have delayed the date until later & slowed the departure, holding the airfields in Kabul, Bagram & the German base in Mazir i Sharif, + secured the short surface escape corridor from Mazir i Sharif to Uzbekistan. Kept enough air, intel & Special Forces assets to hold the ASF together. Withdraw from the south, ceding Pashtun territory to the Taliban & holding the north as a sanctuary for Afghans who want no part of the Taliban. Let Afghanistan split in two, into Taliban & non-Taliban regions. The Taliban were violating the agreement. We could have paused the withdrawal before we lost the north. Our hasty withdrawal & near simultaneous turnover of all bases enabled the Taliban to infiltrate former N Alliance regions which would have resisted. Biden set an unattainable deadline just so he could say we were out before the 20th anniversary of 9-11. Biden bungled this, turning what should have been an ordered withdrawal into a catastrophic rout. This debacle was far from inevitable.

Biden probably said.....just do what the Baltimore Colts did.

[DocBarrister]

This is the most honest military speech ever delivered by an American president in the modern era.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?514113-1/ ... fghanistan

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for Afghan resistance to the Soviets, nor the various decisions that preceded him...but yeah, the precipitous withdrawal commitment was remarkably stupid and entirely owned by him.

But note, I don't give Biden a pass either...at the very least, the withdrawal could have been better executed to enable the "friendlies" safe haven in the US. Better yet, a small international force was, and could have remained, effective in keeping the Taliban at bay. IMO.

You gotta admit it's rather rich for Trump to be critiquing Biden, and downright comical for the GOP to be scrubbing its website.

Unbelievable BS. Biden set & delayed the departure date (for symbolic purposes, at the peak of the fighting season). He could have delayed the date until later & slowed the departure, holding the airfields in Kabul, Bagram & the German base in Mazir i Sharif, + secured the short surface escape corridor from Mazir i Sharif to Uzbekistan. Kept enough air, intel & Special Forces assets to hold the ASF together. Withdraw from the south, ceding Pashtun territory to the Taliban & holding the north as a sanctuary for Afghans who want no part of the Taliban. Let Afghanistan split in two, into Taliban & non-Taliban regions. The Taliban were violating the agreement. We could have paused the withdrawal before we lost the north. Our hasty withdrawal & near simultaneous turnover of all bases enabled the Taliban to infiltrate former N Alliance regions which would have resisted. Biden set an unattainable deadline just so he could say we were out before the 20th anniversary of 9-11. Biden bungled this, turning what should have been an ordered withdrawal into a catastrophic rout. This debacle was far from inevitable.

The ignorance of these comments is truly astounding.

The Taliban would never have settled for half the country. The Northern militias and the Afghan security forces were never going to fight the Taliban unless U.S. troops were fully involved.

Truth is, the only thing that could have prevented a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was the permanent stationing of American troops in that god-forsaken land.

Save your nonsensical tactical arguments for fantasy empire building.

The Afghans weren’t willing to fight. End of story.

Biden admitted the withdrawl to be imperfect and messy. That is perfectly honest, and absolutely consistent with centuries of history in Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for Afghan resistance to the Soviets, nor the various decisions that preceded him...but yeah, the precipitous withdrawal commitment was remarkably stupid and entirely owned by him.

But note, I don't give Biden a pass either...at the very least, the withdrawal could have been better executed to enable the "friendlies" safe haven in the US. Better yet, a small international force was, and could have remained, effective in keeping the Taliban at bay. IMO.

You gotta admit it's rather rich for Trump to be critiquing Biden, and downright comical for the GOP to be scrubbing its website.

Unbelievable BS. Biden set & delayed the departure date (for symbolic purposes, at the peak of the fighting season). He could have delayed the date until later & slowed the departure, holding the airfields in Kabul, Bagram & the German base in Mazir i Sharif, + secured the short surface escape corridor from Mazir i Sharif to Uzbekistan. Kept enough air, intel & Special Forces assets to hold the ASF together. Withdraw from the south, ceding Pashtun territory to the Taliban & holding the north as a sanctuary for Afghans who want no part of the Taliban. Let Afghanistan split in two, into Taliban & non-Taliban regions. The Taliban were violating the agreement. We could have paused the withdrawal before we lost the north. Our hasty withdrawal & near simultaneous turnover of all bases enabled the Taliban to infiltrate former N Alliance regions which would have resisted. Biden set an unattainable deadline just so he could say we were out before the 20th anniversary of 9-11. Biden bungled this, turning what should have been an ordered withdrawal into a catastrophic rout. This debacle was far from inevitable.

The ignorance of these comments is truly astounding.

The Taliban would never have settled for half the country. The Northern militias and the Afghan security forces were never going to fight the Taliban unless U.S. troops were fully involved.

Truth is, the only thing that could have prevented a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was the permanent stationing of American troops in that god-forsaken land.

Save your nonsensical tactical arguments for fantasy empire building.

The Afghans weren’t willing to fight. End of story.

Biden admitted the withdrawl to be imperfect and messy. That is perfectly honest, and absolutely consistent with centuries of history in Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

That was in line with what Biden was hoping for, & was entirely attainable had he allowed our withdrawal to proceed at an orderly pace, rather than force it to meet a politically expedient 9-11 deadline.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-af ... 00d2380179
As president, Biden said in July that he made the decision to withdraw with “clear eyes”...His judgment was that Afghanistan would be divided in a peace agreement with the Taliban, rather than falling all at once....he said in July. “The likelihood there’s going to be one unified government in Afghanistan controlling the whole country is highly unlikely.”

In his speech today, Biden said :
Our mission was never supposed to be creating a unified, centralized democracy,

Biden's always been partial to Balkanization. That was his early proposal for Iraq.
This from 2011 (3 mos before the demise of OBL):
https://www.thenationalnews.com/balkani ... n-1.429531
On the verge of exit from Afghanistan, the US and its allies might be tempted to leave a Balkanised version of that country in their wake. The idea, ...is seen as something of an end game, where the country is divided along ethnic lines.

A divided Afghanistan, the thinking goes, would prevent a full-scale return of the Taliban by reducing its presence to the Pashtun-dominated south and, in the process, contain the threat. The presumedly peaceful north could embark on nation-building while military operations and counter-terrorism could continue in the south.

The logic of a divided Afghanistan is based on three premises. First, there was no such country as Afghanistan until Russia and Britain decided to create it in 1893 as a buffer between the Russian and British empires. Second, Taliban support is confined to the Pashtun-dominated south. And last, a division along ethnic lines would be acceptable to all parties.

It remains to be seen what form Afghanistan will take after the United States and its allies make their exit. But that exit is on the horizon. As I have argued in previous articles, last month's visit of the US vice president Joe Biden and his return two days ago may signal a changing US strategy in the region. Mr Biden is the greatest proponent in Washington of a diminished US troop presence on the subcontinent, and his visits will be dealing with an exit strategy.

[MDlaxfan76]

When you say he "cannot run for office again", I assume you meant "should not be allowed" to do so, right? He definitely "can" unless he's convicted of a felony and in jail...(the GOP missed the chance to actually ban him from ever running again...all they needed to do was convict in the Senate...just 9 more GOP Senators' votes and he'd have been permanently banned).

Right. Meant to say "cannot be allowed to run for office again." And certainly should not as I stated months ago.

+1

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for Afghan resistance to the Soviets, nor the various decisions that preceded him...but yeah, the precipitous withdrawal commitment was remarkably stupid and entirely owned by him.

But note, I don't give Biden a pass either...at the very least, the withdrawal could have been better executed to enable the "friendlies" safe haven in the US. Better yet, a small international force was, and could have remained, effective in keeping the Taliban at bay. IMO.

You gotta admit it's rather rich for Trump to be critiquing Biden, and downright comical for the GOP to be scrubbing its website.

Unbelievable BS. Biden set & delayed the departure date (for symbolic purposes, at the peak of the fighting season). He could have delayed the date until later & slowed the departure, holding the airfields in Kabul, Bagram & the German base in Mazir i Sharif, + secured the short surface escape corridor from Mazir i Sharif to Uzbekistan. Kept enough air, intel & Special Forces assets to hold the ASF together. Withdraw from the south, ceding Pashtun territory to the Taliban & holding the north as a sanctuary for Afghans who want no part of the Taliban. Let Afghanistan split in two, into Taliban & non-Taliban regions. The Taliban were violating the agreement. We could have paused the withdrawal before we lost the north. Our hasty withdrawal & near simultaneous turnover of all bases enabled the Taliban to infiltrate former N Alliance regions which would have resisted. Biden set an unattainable deadline just so he could say we were out before the 20th anniversary of 9-11. Biden bungled this, turning what should have been an ordered withdrawal into a catastrophic rout. This debacle was far from inevitable.

The ignorance of these comments is truly astounding.

The Taliban would never have settled for half the country. The Northern militias and the Afghan security forces were never going to fight the Taliban unless U.S. troops were fully involved.

Truth is, the only thing that could have prevented a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan was the permanent stationing of American troops in that god-forsaken land.

Save your nonsensical tactical arguments for fantasy empire building.

The Afghans weren’t willing to fight. End of story.

Biden admitted the withdrawl to be imperfect and messy. That is perfectly honest, and absolutely consistent with centuries of history in Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

Well, there’s certainly room for disagreement on this one.

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

[old salt]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

As I've said, multiple times, I don't think that Trump would have followed through. It's not like Trump never walked out of a deal. As Gen Keane said, Trump was "coachable" & Keane (& Esper/Milley/Obrien) were able to effectively "coach" Trump, after Mattis & McMaster were not.

IMHO -- if assured a 2nd term, Trump would have slow walked our departure. What he's saying now is posturing for a run in '24.

[DocBarrister]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

As I've said, multiple times, I don't think that Trump would have followed through. It's not like Trump never walked out of a deal. As Gen Keane said, Trump was "coachable" & Keane (& Esper/Milley/Obrien) were able to effectively "coach" Trump, after Mattis & McMaster were not.

IMHO -- if assured a 2nd term, Trump would have slow walked our departure. What he's saying now is posturing for a run in '24.

That’s a pretty pathetic excuse … Trump would have breached the agreement.

Trump made an agreement with the Taliban to exit Afghanistan. He made that agreement without the Afghan government. Biden extended the deadline by four months.

It doesn’t matter when this withdrawal took place … it was going to be messy, because it’s clear the Afghan Security Forces and Northern militias were never going to fight without the full support of the United States.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

Also, I posted this shortly after the election :

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.

I was only 1/2 right.
I did not pitch a fit when Trump blustered about withdrawal because I did not think that either Trump or Biden would be so reckless as to execute an abrupt, total withdrawal. My military mind could not process such a craven, feckless political decision. Apparently much of the serving chain of command did not expect it either.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

As I've said, multiple times, I don't think that Trump would have followed through. It's not like Trump never walked out of a deal. As Gen Keane said, Trump was "coachable" & Keane (& Esper/Milley/Obrien) were able to effectively "coach" Trump, after Mattis & McMaster were not.

IMHO -- if assured a 2nd term, Trump would have slow walked our departure. What he's saying now is posturing for a run in '24.

Keep hope alive!!

[old salt]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

As I've said, multiple times, I don't think that Trump would have followed through. It's not like Trump never walked out of a deal. As Gen Keane said, Trump was "coachable" & Keane (& Esper/Milley/Obrien) were able to effectively "coach" Trump, after Mattis & McMaster were not.

IMHO -- if assured a 2nd term, Trump would have slow walked our departure. What he's saying now is posturing for a run in '24.

Keep hope alive!!

I posted my hope before. That nature will take it's course & Trump will not be a candidate (or force) in the '24 election.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

As I've said, multiple times, I don't think that Trump would have followed through. It's not like Trump never walked out of a deal. As Gen Keane said, Trump was "coachable" & Keane (& Esper/Milley/Obrien) were able to effectively "coach" Trump, after Mattis & McMaster were not.

IMHO -- if assured a 2nd term, Trump would have slow walked our departure. What he's saying now is posturing for a run in '24.

Keep hope alive!!

I posted my hope before. That nature will take it's course & Trump will not be a candidate (or force) in the '24 election.

Keep hope alive.

[DocBarrister]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

Also, I posted this shortly after the election :

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.

I was only 1/2 right.
I did not pitch a fit when Trump blustered about withdrawal because I did not think that either Trump or Biden would be so reckless as to execute an abrupt, total withdrawal. My military mind could not process such a craven, feckless political decision. Apparently much of the serving chain of command did not expect it either.

That’s because our current President is a decisive leader who has been a national leader on foreign affairs since most of the current generals were children.

Frankly, it’s difficult to imagine another president making this hard but politically difficult decision. He cared more for our troops than his political convenience.

Go figure ….

There are going to be many military families who will be grateful that their loved ones won’t have to serve as part of a permanent U.S. deployment in Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

[old salt]

It doesn’t matter when this withdrawal took place … it was going to be messy, because it’s clear the Afghan Security Forces and Northern militias were never going to fight without the full support of the United States.

They did in 2001, with zero advance support or cooperation. The ASF's will to fight evaporated when it became obvious that we were not going to stand with them.

[old salt]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

Also, I posted this shortly after the election :

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.

I was only 1/2 right.
I did not pitch a fit when Trump blustered about withdrawal because I did not think that either Trump or Biden would be so reckless as to execute an abrupt, total withdrawal. My military mind could not process such a craven, feckless political decision. Apparently much of the serving chain of command did not expect it either.

That’s because our current President is a decisive leader who has been a national leader on foreign affairs since most of the current generals were children.

Frankly, it’s difficult to imagine another president making this hard but politically difficult decision. He cared more for our troops than his political convenience.

Go figure ….

There are going to be many military families who will be grateful that their loved ones won’t have to serve as part of a permanent U.S. deployment in Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

This President is a stubborn, doddering, incompetent old fool who knows he won't have a 2nd term or live to see the results of his impetus decision, overruling his military & national security advisors. There are thousands of military members, veterans & families who feel betrayed & that their sacrifices were now made in vain, because of this cowardly decision.

[jhu72]

Biden's decision will likely gain majority bipartisan support at the end of the day.

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

Also, I posted this shortly after the election :

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.

I was only 1/2 right.
I did not pitch a fit when Trump blustered about withdrawal because I did not think that either Trump or Biden would be so reckless as to execute an abrupt, total withdrawal. My military mind could not process such a craven, feckless political decision. Apparently much of the serving chain of command did not expect it either.

Uh huh, I agree, that's a pretty pathetic excuse...Trump wouldn't' have kept his word.

No, you held your fire at Trump because he was your guy. You flew air cover at every turn. And you weren't going to rip him for a "craven, feckless political decision" that you claim you found stupid, but only now that Biden is executing on Trump's commitment to leave.

I'm consistent; I didn't like Trump's decision and commitment, and I think Biden should have found some way to modify it more than he did. But it was an awful hand he was dealt, so I'm not going to rip Biden more than I was willing to rip Trump.

Here's what I hope, that you and I are both wrong, that the Taliban are not as brutally bad as we expect and that the region stabilizes from here, with Afghanistan less of a breeding ground and safe haven for terrorists than it once was. But ugh, it sure doesn't feel like that's likely.

[Brooklyn]

This President is a stubborn, doddering, incompetent old fool who knows he won't have a 2nd term or live to see the results of his impetus decision, overruling his military & national security advisors. There are thousands of military members, veterans & families who feel betrayed & that their sacrifices were now made in vain, because of this cowardly decision.

cowardly decision??

[old salt]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

Also, I posted this shortly after the election :

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.

I was only 1/2 right.
I did not pitch a fit when Trump blustered about withdrawal because I did not think that either Trump or Biden would be so reckless as to execute an abrupt, total withdrawal. My military mind could not process such a craven, feckless political decision. Apparently much of the serving chain of command did not expect it either.

Uh huh, I agree, that's a pretty pathetic excuse...Trump wouldn't' have kept his word.

No, you held your fire at Trump because he was your guy. You flew air cover at every turn. And you weren't going to rip him for a "craven, feckless political decision" that you claim you found stupid, but only now that Biden is executing on Trump's commitment to leave.

I'm consistent; I didn't like Trump's decision and commitment, and I think Biden should have found some way to modify it more than he did. But it was an awful hand he was dealt, so I'm not going to rip Biden more than I was willing to rip Trump.

Here's what I hope, that you and I are both wrong, that the Taliban are not as brutally bad as we expect and that the region stabilizes from here, with Afghanistan less of a breeding ground and safe haven for terrorists than it once was. But ugh, it sure doesn't feel like that's likely.

I held my fire at Trump because it did not matter unless he was reelected, which I did not expect to happen. I was not alarmed because he had not ordered a further reduction. I was pleased that things were still going well with 2500 troops, our NATO allies were standing firm, the Afghan Air Force was getting more aircraft & flying more missions & we were not taking casualties. At that point, I considered the mission an ongoing success. I was focused on other issues & not worried about Afghanistan unless Trump was reelected & started doing something about it.

The decision point was not at hand. Trump would not be able to execute it unless reelected. There was very little media coverage of the withdrawal issue, very little coverage of Afghanistan at all. You may recall that Biden was non-committal about our ongoing presence in Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan.

You & Biden are hiding behind a sham excuse to deny his accountability, just like Obama & Biden used the lack of a SOFA to rationalize our abandonment of Iraq.

I don't recall your strenuous objection to Trump's Feb 2020 withdrawal agreement before the election. If I missed those posts, please repost them & I will reconsider them. We were all more focused on Iran/Iraq/Syria/Saudi Arabia. Things were quiet in Afghanistan, It was an afterthought.

[Kismet]

Salty, my primary issue with your critique ( in addition to thinking you exaggerate) is that you had no such outrage at Trump’s timeline and commitment to it. Nope, different party, automatically bums and bad decisions.

Also, I posted this shortly after the election :

On 1/21/21, I expect Pres Biden to --

-- reverse the troop withdrawal & repositioning from Germany, which will not have yet begun,
leaving our military presence in Germany @ status quo ante.

He may eventually bring our Germany based Stryker Brigade (w/families) home
& replace them with a rotating deployment of a US based Stryker Brigades.

-- return our force level in Afghanistan to 4,500, until peace negotiations & conditions dictate lower.

I was only 1/2 right.
I did not pitch a fit when Trump blustered about withdrawal because I did not think that either Trump or Biden would be so reckless as to execute an abrupt, total withdrawal. My military mind could not process such a craven, feckless political decision. Apparently much of the serving chain of command did not expect it either.

That’s because our current President is a decisive leader who has been a national leader on foreign affairs since most of the current generals were children.

Frankly, it’s difficult to imagine another president making this hard but politically difficult decision. He cared more for our troops than his political convenience.

Go figure ….

There are going to be many military families who will be grateful that their loved ones won’t have to serve as part of a permanent U.S. deployment in Afghanistan.

DocBarrister

This President is a stubborn, doddering, incompetent old fool who knows he won't have a 2nd term or live to see the results of his impetus decision, overruling his military & national security advisors. There are thousands of military members, veterans & families who feel betrayed & that their sacrifices were now made in vain, because of this cowardly decision.

Appalled how you can so directly personally criticize Joe Biden while you gave DOPUS Trump a complete pass for 4+ years on EVERYTHING. Can now say that the two of you DESERVE one another.

Pathetic.