Trump's Russian Collusion

[RedFromMI]

It’s simple (from Josh Marshall, publisher of TalkingPointsMemo):

The President used extortion to force another country to intervene in the 2020 presidential election. All else is commentary.

[a fan]

Sure, not much to absorb, if I just swallow your spin.

He gave you a direct quote from Trump. No spin.

[foreverlax]

Sure, not much to absorb, if I just swallow your spin.

As I said, it's a quote. Need the link so you can read it yourself? Maybe the video?

Where is your boy VDH on this??

[jhu72]

Yesterday's CNN reporting of two claims of "witnesses" of Trump agreeing to not push China on Hong Kong protests in exchange for reopening trade talks, is now being picked up by other media outlets. I don't think this is well sourced, we will see. CNN needs to provide more meat. The charge is certainly believable give Trump's proclivity for transactional bargaining.

China has just announced that they will not be investigating the Bidens.

[foreverlax]

Yesterday's CNN reporting of two claims of "witnesses" of Trump agreeing to not push China on Hong Kong protests in exchange for reopening trade talks, is now being picked up by other media outlets. I don't think this is well sourced, we will see. CNN needs to provide more meat. The charge is certainly believable give Trump's proclivity for transactional bargaining.

China has just announced that they will not be investigating the Bidens.

Good decision by China, which of course means they are going all in.

Good for Mitch

On the 70th anniversary of the People’s Republic of China, we should pause to recognize the many millions of lives lost under Chinese communist rule.

“From the modern gulags used to incarcerate Xinjiang’s Uighurs, to the high-tech firewalls and censorship that control the flow of information, to the state’s extensive technical surveillance, to all of the Communist Party’s other tools of social and political control, Xi Jinping’s China looks disturbingly like a modern version of Maoist China.

“I especially condemn the continued use of violence against democratic activists in Hong Kong. It is darkly fitting that on the 70th anniversary of the PRC, its agents would be reduced to using force against protesters in Hong Kong who seek to preserve basic personal freedoms. The CCP has always squashed dissent with force.

“The Chinese Communist Party’s methods are not just a tragedy for more than a billion Chinese, who deserve to be treated with more respect and granted more freedoms by their rulers in Beijing. They are also a telling indicator of the threat the PRC poses to its neighbors. If this is how a great power treats its own citizens, just think how it will treat foreign countries who fall under China’s growing economic and military influence.”

[Trinity]

Senator Ron Johnson (r) confirms Sondland told him about the quid pro quo in August. Meanwhile, House committees subpoena the Ukraine documents of Veep Mike Pence. Bill Barr and Mike Pompeo remain out of the country.

[jhu72]

Yesterday's CNN reporting of two claims of "witnesses" of Trump agreeing to not push China on Hong Kong protests in exchange for reopening trade talks, is now being picked up by other media outlets. I don't think this is well sourced, we will see. CNN needs to provide more meat. The charge is certainly believable give Trump's proclivity for transactional bargaining.

China has just announced that they will not be investigating the Bidens.

Good decision by China, which of course means they are going all in.

Good for Mitch

On the 70th anniversary of the People’s Republic of China, we should pause to recognize the many millions of lives lost under Chinese communist rule.

“From the modern gulags used to incarcerate Xinjiang’s Uighurs, to the high-tech firewalls and censorship that control the flow of information, to the state’s extensive technical surveillance, to all of the Communist Party’s other tools of social and political control, Xi Jinping’s China looks disturbingly like a modern version of Maoist China.

“I especially condemn the continued use of violence against democratic activists in Hong Kong. It is darkly fitting that on the 70th anniversary of the PRC, its agents would be reduced to using force against protesters in Hong Kong who seek to preserve basic personal freedoms. The CCP has always squashed dissent with force.

“The Chinese Communist Party’s methods are not just a tragedy for more than a billion Chinese, who deserve to be treated with more respect and granted more freedoms by their rulers in Beijing. They are also a telling indicator of the threat the PRC poses to its neighbors. If this is how a great power treats its own citizens, just think how it will treat foreign countries who fall under China’s growing economic and military influence.”

All it means is Trump needs to up his QUID. The Chinese are smarter than SFBs.

[ggait]

Senator Ron Johnson (r) confirms Sondland told him about the quid pro quo in August.

Funny how all these folks, except Trump himself, understood there was a quid pro quo.

I guess no one understands when to take Trump literally or figuratively or whatever.

I wonder when they are going to get around to interviewing John Bolton. He's a private citizen now, so he can spill whatever he wants free of any BS exec privelege claims from the WH.

[jhu72]

Senator Ron Johnson (r) confirms Sondland told him about the quid pro quo in August. Meanwhile, House committees subpoena the Ukraine documents of Veep Mike Pence. Bill Barr and Mike Pompeo remain out of the country.

Washington republicans, those in town, by in large are playing the I haven't heard …; I haven't read …; really its the first I've heard of it... game. Those who aren't playing the game are not defending Orange Duce (outside the usual Trumpsuckers). DC Republicans are keeping a low profile.

[Trinity]

“The nightmare is if they have the meeting...The Russians love it. (And I quit.) “
Ambassador Bill Taylor.

Best part of the smoking texts? Jim Jordan thinks they don’t hurt his team.

[jhu72]

You really believe these State Department texts?? Come on, Hillary put these on the server while she should have been cooking diner, washing the cloths ("woman's work") and saving Private Ryan. It's just more of the Benghazi cover up.

[jhu72]

Maddow is claiming Pence's name has been added to the Impeachment Inquiry as of today (if I heard correctly).

[njbill]

Senator Ron Johnson (r) confirms Sondland told him about the quid pro quo in August.

Funny how all these folks, except Trump himself, understood there was a quid pro quo.

I guess no one understands when to take Trump literally or figuratively or whatever.

I wonder when they are going to get around to interviewing John Bolton. He's a private citizen now, so he can spill whatever he wants free of any BS exec privelege claims from the WH.

Maybe saving the best witness for last?

[ggait]

NJ Bill -- as a lawyer wouldn't you love to depose Amb. Sondland?

Could you tell us what you were doing during the five hours it took you to respond to the Bill Taylor text saying it was crazy to tie the UK aid to election politics? Catching some sleep?

Or did you consult with anyone during those five hours? Maybe the WH? Maybe a personal lawyer? Anyone help you write that response text? Seems pretty legalistic to me. You sure you didn't have any help on that? Did anyone advise you to stop putting your conversations in writing? Or was that just your idea? Why did you think it was necessary to stop putting your conversations in writing?

Senator Johnson says you told him about a quid pro quo in August? Is that true? Or is Senator Johnson lying about that? If there was no quid pro quo, why did Amb. Taylor think there was? Is he lying? Or just mistaken?

I remind you you are under oath. But feel free to take the 5th any time you need to Mr. Ambassador. Since we always follow the law in this Committee...

[Trinity]

Everyone gonna learn today.

[Peter Brown]

I’m endlessly fascinated with the majority of this boards reluctance to tell folks like DocB and JHU72 to stuff it when they claim all Trump voters are amoral, unethical, disinterested, etc.

I’m the operating partner of an 1100-person aviation company. We are growing fast. We carry zero debt outside weekly trade and accrued expenses. Maybe 5% of our firm has a college degree. Most of our employees have home cooked meals for lunch. I’m not aware of anyone who has a graduate degree. I don’t! I’d say somewhere near 75% of our employee base is what you’d call ‘blue collar’, though given their immense technical skills not to mention work ethic, I look at those who look down upon our people as blue collar, if it’s a pejorative term. We spend inordinate amounts of money investing in our people. Easily 50% carry guns in their pickups. 20% are first generation American.

The only issue of any note we had to deal with in the last year came from one of our college graduates, who’s no longer with us. He objected to HR that some of the employees were wearing those red MAGA hats. I voted for Obama and skipped the last one. The ‘MAGA hat’ decision came down to me and I sided with the employees, who cheered at each location (from what I was told) when HR announced we are a free speech company and you can wear any hat you want provided it’s not vulgar, sexist, etc.

I’d bet 75% of those ‘blue collar’ employees are Trump voters. Every time you denigrate them, as is done here daily by supposed elite educated posters, you lock up one more vote for Trump. Argue with his policies, but when you gratuitously slap his voters, you’re going to be very unhappy come 2021.

If they are so insecure, fearful and hateful as to care what I think, then go ahead and vote for Trump. If they wish to cut off their nose to spit their face, then go ahead. They will get what they deserve, as they are in the process now.

If you wish to felate them, knock yourself out. I won't! I grew up in a blue collar family and neighborhood, I more than understand these people and what makes them tic. They are great people, loving, caring, plenty of smarts, but generally insecure and jealous, telling themselves they don't get a fair shake and a general unwillingness (as a class) to get the education, take advantage of the educational opportunities available to them, that would change their situation. Sorry, not my fault. Their favorite story is how the "dumb beans" college graduate engineer misconnected the "check valve" to the waterpump and how they personally saved the day.

By the way, there are many individuals on this forum who have resumes that are as if not more impressive than yours.

As I sit here on a porch gazing at a majestic Adirondack mountain (truly the Adirondacks are one of America’s greatest treasures!), I come to this thread with such hesitation because of posts like above.

It would take five lifetimes of achievement to erase the mistakes I’ve made. So no, my post wasn’t about my ‘resume’. I take pride in my colleagues, all of them. You slam them, you slam me.

My post was about you and DocB gratuitously slamming friends and colleagues of mine, all of whom I hold dear, most of whom don’t hold degrees from JHU or anywhere. The ones I know are good people, they work hard, have families, attend church, and play sports. Not unlike most people.

Human beings are complex. When you and DocB reduce 60,000,000 fellow Americans as ‘Nazis’ or whatever else you call them, it’s both absurd and offensive. It’s also dumb.

It’s probably unfair for me to even comment here since I don’t come to this thread often. I do love taking the mickey out of Hopkins, but in jest mostly. One of the greatest human beings I ever met in my life was a Hop grad by the name of Jeff Cook.

I’d just ask you and DocB to try to understand why a person with the flaws of Trump is in fact attractive to some folks. And no, it’s not about racism. It’s something deeper, and I feel it has a ton to do with the underlying if not overlaying sentiment you and he profess about half the country. You even say ‘they don’t know what’s best’. That’s an incredibly obnoxious thing to say about anyone, let alone half the country. You call them racists, even when they’re black and brown.

Continue down that path, and they will indeed stick with Trump. Regardless if he’s ‘good’ for then or not. You’ll only have yourself to blame.

(Thanks to a fan for correcting me on DocB).

[seacoaster]

Wish we could put the Hopkins-Loyola thing aside and just focus on the thread topic.

Moving on, this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... p-dilemma/

"Iowa resident Amy Haskins asked Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) an important question about President Trump on Thursday.

“Where is the line?” Haskins asked at a town hall. “When are you guys going to say, ‘Enough,' and stand up and say, ‘I’m not backing any of this?’”

I don’t mean that this was a good question in a moralistic way, as if it’s beyond time for Ernst and her GOP colleagues to take a stand. (People are welcome to make that call for themselves.) I mean it quite literally as “Where is the line?” — because Republicans need to start asking themselves just how far Trump will go if they don’t start setting boundaries.

The past week or so has shown the peril of the GOP’s see-no-evil approach to Trump. After a rough transcript showed the president suggestively talking about how good the United States is to Ukraine before asking Ukraine’s president for investigations that carry political benefits for him, Republicans offered a muted response. A handful — most notably Sens. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) and Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), and even Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) to an extent — said the call was bad. But the vast majority of elected GOP officials basically stayed silent."

This is the template: citizens cannot leave it to the right wing Trumpian howler-class to push Senators into a corner. Constituents need to let this jury pool know that, for them, there is a line. The Republicans have a Child King who knows no boundary. If this is OK, then what?

[jhu72]

NJ Bill -- as a lawyer wouldn't you love to depose Amb. Sondland?

Could you tell us what you were doing during the five hours it took you to respond to the Bill Taylor text saying it was crazy to tie the UK aid to election politics? Catching some sleep?

Or did you consult with anyone during those five hours? Maybe the WH? Maybe a personal lawyer? Anyone help you write that response text? Seems pretty legalistic to me. You sure you didn't have any help on that? Did anyone advise you to stop putting your conversations in writing? Or was that just your idea? Why did you think it was necessary to stop putting your conversations in writing?

Senator Johnson says you told him about a quid pro quo in August? Is that true? Or is Senator Johnson lying about that? If there was no quid pro quo, why did Amb. Taylor think there was? Is he lying? Or just mistaken?

I remind you you are under oath. But feel free to take the 5th any time you need to Mr. Ambassador. Since we always follow the law in this Committee...

Sondland's coffin is nailed shut by Johnson testimony. Sondland's erstwhile exculpatory email was written after the whistleblower filling became open knowledge. You will get more than 51 votes to convict. 67, still not likely, that I can see.

PS - I always saw Johnson as just one more Trump toadie. I would not have seen him playing this role.

[njbill]

NJ Bill -- as a lawyer wouldn't you love to depose Amb. Sondland?

Could you tell us what you were doing during the five hours it took you to respond to the Bill Taylor text saying it was crazy to tie the UK aid to election politics? Catching some sleep?

Or did you consult with anyone during those five hours? Maybe the WH? Maybe a personal lawyer? Anyone help you write that response text? Seems pretty legalistic to me. You sure you didn't have any help on that? Did anyone advise you to stop putting your conversations in writing? Or was that just your idea? Why did you think it was necessary to stop putting your conversations in writing?

Senator Johnson says you told him about a quid pro quo in August? Is that true? Or is Senator Johnson lying about that? If there was no quid pro quo, why did Amb. Taylor think there was? Is he lying? Or just mistaken?

I remind you you are under oath. But feel free to take the 5th any time you need to Mr. Ambassador. Since we always follow the law in this Committee...

Great stuff. Get yourself hired by the House Intelligence Committee and persuade them to let counsel, not their blowhard selves, ask questions of the witnesses.

[njbill]

Wish we could put the Hopkins-Loyola thing aside and just focus on the thread topic.

Moving on, this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... p-dilemma/

"Iowa resident Amy Haskins asked Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) an important question about President Trump on Thursday.

“Where is the line?” Haskins asked at a town hall. “When are you guys going to say, ‘Enough,' and stand up and say, ‘I’m not backing any of this?’”

I don’t mean that this was a good question in a moralistic way, as if it’s beyond time for Ernst and her GOP colleagues to take a stand. (People are welcome to make that call for themselves.) I mean it quite literally as “Where is the line?” — because Republicans need to start asking themselves just how far Trump will go if they don’t start setting boundaries.

The past week or so has shown the peril of the GOP’s see-no-evil approach to Trump. After a rough transcript showed the president suggestively talking about how good the United States is to Ukraine before asking Ukraine’s president for investigations that carry political benefits for him, Republicans offered a muted response. A handful — most notably Sens. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) and Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), and even Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) to an extent — said the call was bad. But the vast majority of elected GOP officials basically stayed silent."

This is the template: citizens cannot leave it to the right wing Trumpian howler-class to push Senators into a corner. Constituents need to let this jury pool know that, for them, there is a line. The Republicans have a Child King who knows no boundary. If this is OK, then what?

sc, just got back from watching the new Where is my Roy Cohn? movie. (That’s what we retired guys can do: go to a movie in the afternoon while you working stiffs continue to pay into Medicare and Social Security for us. Thanks. ) In it they showed a clip of the famous Joe Welch “have you no sense of decency” scene. Somewhat similar to the question asked of Joni Ernst.

At the end of the movie they said that after Cohn had been disbarred and was dying of AIDS, Donald Trump, who had used his services for many years, dumped him; he stopped using him as his lawyer, he stopped going to his parties, and he cut off all connections to him. Class guy that Donald, that is, class without the “c” and the “l.”