Johns Hopkins 2022

[MDlaxfan76]

I have not personally interacted with lacrosse-playing Iroquois, but of the American Indians I have known, their first preference was their tribe (in the case of those whom I have known: Cherokee or Seminole), but their second choice was simply Indian.

That said, Native American is nowhere as egregiously bilingually illiterate as Latinx.

Tribe first...First Nations, Native Americans...

"American Indians" has a quite mixed reception, some prefer, some do not..."Indians" pretty universally frowned upon, though not by 100%.

Frowned on by whom? Enlightened academics?

My experience, abeit limited, is that 44 is right. The term "indian" is used regularly, and not in derogatorily, by group members themselves. Then again, they have real issues to deal with. Especially the ones back on the rez.

yes, more frowned upon by activists. Yes, some of those are academics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Am ... ontroversy

[OCanada]

I love non Indians speaking to what Indians prefer to be called.

The term native Americans never got the following some thought it would although it was popular among the activists like Russell Means who preferred it .

I can pretty much guarantee I have spent more time in Indian Country than any one on this Forum or most other places.

I have been in meetings with Ada Deer, formerly Under Secretary of Indian Affairs and the first person to reconstitute an Indian tribe. Menominee.

Ladonna Harris - Comanche. A legend in Indian country formerly married to Senator Harris Oklahoma.

Elizabeth Homer - Osage - formerly head of the National Indian Gaming Commission. Her husband was head on the Indian Small Business Administration, note the names of the organizations

The three were known as the three Divas in Indian Country.

My gf for a decade was the DOIs expert on Indian Treaties and law and represented the US on the US delegation to the International Whaling Commission.


I have been on more than 30 reservations and to weddings on several. I have danced at Pow Wows, been in sweat lodges and been to drumming ceremonies

Most of the Indians I know prefer Indians and would tell you so. They are all enrolled members of tribes. Bring an enrolled member matters. Cherokees are the tribe of choice for many claiming Indian heritage. . One member once told me if everyone who claimed to be Cherokee was Cherokee the tribe would have 8 million members.

The tribal identification and the ties to the Rez are an issue for those leaving. As someone noted tribal identities are paramount for enrolled members and affiliated. They are so strong that feuds dating back centuries and still get in the way of getting sone things done esp oils there is a problem with the government

There is no universally accepted term but there is a preferred term. Tribal identification is very strong though intermarriage has introduced so strains. Each tribe can define who can be an enrolled member. The blood quantum in many is 25%. Over time fewer are eligible. There is now a movement to drop blood and go by culture eg lsngusge, customs etc. no easy answer. Sorry for being so intrusive but I though perspective might help

[51percentcorn]

fell asleep halfway through this - started out saying it was a joke - lighten up Francis

[Jaysjay88]

"Indian" was a mistake, wasn't it? Indians are from the Indian subcontinent. Indians I know, including the guy I look at in the mirror every morning, prefer not to have ambiguous and incorrect use of their ethnic identity. I live out West and I do try to find out tribe affiliation when I speak to Native Americans so I can refer to their people correctly. Not so hard, is it?

[wgdsr]

fell asleep halfway through this - started out saying it was a joke - lighten up Francis

join the club.

[DocBarrister]

I love non Indians speaking to what Indians prefer to be called.

The term native Americans never got the following some thought it would although it was popular among the activists like Russell Means who preferred it .

I can pretty much guarantee I have spent more time in Indian Country than any one on this Forum or most other places.

I have been in meetings with Ada Deer, formerly Under Secretary of Indian Affairs and the first person to reconstitute an Indian tribe. Menominee.

Ladonna Harris - Comanche. A legend in Indian country formerly married to Senator Harris Oklahoma.

Elizabeth Homer - Osage - formerly head of the National Indian Gaming Commission. Her husband was head on the Indian Small Business Administration, note the names of the organizations

The three were known as the three Divas in Indian Country.

My gf for a decade was the DOIs expert on Indian Treaties and law and represented the US on the US delegation to the International Whaling Commission.


I have been on more than 30 reservations and to weddings on several. I have danced at Pow Wows, been in sweat lodges and been to drumming ceremonies

Most of the Indians I know prefer Indians and would tell you so. They are all enrolled members of tribes. Bring an enrolled member matters. Cherokees are the tribe of choice for many claiming Indian heritage. . One member once told me if everyone who claimed to be Cherokee was Cherokee the tribe would have 8 million members.

The tribal identification and the ties to the Rez are an issue for those leaving. As someone noted tribal identities are paramount for enrolled members and affiliated. They are so strong that feuds dating back centuries and still get in the way of getting sone things done esp oils there is a problem with the government

There is no universally accepted term but there is a preferred term. Tribal identification is very strong though intermarriage has introduced so strains. Each tribe can define who can be an enrolled member. The blood quantum in many is 25%. Over time fewer are eligible. There is now a movement to drop blood and go by culture eg lsngusge, customs etc. no easy answer. Sorry for being so intrusive but I though perspective might help

My main reaction to this …

… you had a gf for a decade and you didn’t marry her? What’s the matter with you?!?

DocBarrister

[51percentcorn]

To be clear - I really really wasn't trying to start a big sociological/philosophical/political debate on the use of the term "Indians". I almost never hear that term anymore except for a reference to Cleveland's baseball team. Everyone I know says Native Americans. But this is not the place to debate such things. One interesting fact where I can't help myself - the aforementioned Dan Snyder - the very worst thing about the Washington Foorball Team - used to proudly trot around surveys of identified native americans that 9 out of every 10 were not offended by the former team name. Sorry Charlie - Redskins is offensive.

[jhu06]

I am not stepping in here to claim any expertise but a couple of hopefully rational onservations:
- Obviusly, the classes are smaller - a class of 12 is of course a third smaller than Petro's last two - still need to get to 9 or 10 - but it's a start
- The classes so far seem to have construct as a thought rather than gathering as many eggs in your Easter basket as you can - 4 D/2 A/1 FO/1 G/5 M in one class - 1 G/1FO/3 D/6 M in another (as listed) but obviously someone like Marquis can play attack
- I'm not going to go Ken Beatrice on everyone (slightly obscure reference outside the DC area but not really a stretch to say he was one of the fathers of sports talk radio - he was famous for quoting heights and weights to the half inch and pound) but it does seem that with players like Teachout/Hicks/Collison etc the middies are not smaller converted attackmen
- The 2023 class will be PM's first with some level of normalcy - it will be very interesting to see how this class shapes up
OC - good natured ribbing but I think we need to send you to the Dan Snyder school of sensitivity - Indians?

-Thinner more focused classes. Good.
-Maryland added several kids yesterday. A few of you at the beginning of the offseason argued against PM adding a lot of transfers and at least compared to md/rutgers he's gone that way, so far.

[primitiveskills]

I am not stepping in here to claim any expertise but a couple of hopefully rational onservations:
- Obviusly, the classes are smaller - a class of 12 is of course a third smaller than Petro's last two - still need to get to 9 or 10 - but it's a start
- The classes so far seem to have construct as a thought rather than gathering as many eggs in your Easter basket as you can - 4 D/2 A/1 FO/1 G/5 M in one class - 1 G/1FO/3 D/6 M in another (as listed) but obviously someone like Marquis can play attack
- I'm not going to go Ken Beatrice on everyone (slightly obscure reference outside the DC area but not really a stretch to say he was one of the fathers of sports talk radio - he was famous for quoting heights and weights to the half inch and pound) but it does seem that with players like Teachout/Hicks/Collison etc the middies are not smaller converted attackmen
- The 2023 class will be PM's first with some level of normalcy - it will be very interesting to see how this class shapes up
OC - good natured ribbing but I think we need to send you to the Dan Snyder school of sensitivity - Indians?

-Thinner more focused classes. Good.
-Maryland added several kids yesterday. A few of you at the beginning of the offseason argued against PM adding a lot of transfers and at least compared to md/rutgers he's gone that way, so far.

"Several kids" is a bit of an understatement. They landed arguably the top M and D in the portal, and one of the top 3 A. As we found out with Duke last year, though, this doesn't guarantee a championship, but it definitely doesn't hurt.

[51percentcorn]

A few of you at the beginning of the offseason argued against PM adding a lot of transfers and at least compared to md/rutgers he's gone that way, so far.

2 points - First - this is not a linear issue - the following does not happen: Kid enters portal - Milliman looks at portal - Milliman decides who he wants - kid ends up at Hopkins
Second - If you are a transfer - especially an upperclass more high profile transfer - i.e. you want or expect to start or play significant minutes this next year - where on the field are you thinking Hopkins is the place for me?
- Close Defense - I guess loses Lyne? - but there are alot of 4* and 5* waiting for their turn
- Attack - 2 positions are set - A Top 10 recruit that came on late in the year appears poised to be a very good option for the third
- Mid-field - 5 of the 6 players on the first 2 lines appear to be returning - 1 likely goes to attack - but the hope is Angelus/Keogh/Degnon/Peshko/McDermott are all healthy and back
- Defensive midfield - Here's probably the biggest hole right now - at LSM you lose your #1 option and biggest surprise of the season assuming he plays basketball - as '16 detailed virtually impossible for Delaney to join lax almost in mid season - Fernandez is returning from his 2nd significant knee injury and the rest last season was a mish mash - lots of bodies saw time at SSDM - so even with the apparent loss of Zinn's services and assuming Shure is not back - there's some optimism that increased size and athleticism will help with folks like Martin etc.
- Goalie - Already 1 transfer but with an incumbent of 4.5 games of experience and varied results - a DIII transfer and an incoming freshman a goalie could see a path here

Finally - again - I'll beat my favorite dead horse and do the math
55 players with eligibiity remaning - 14 of them were seniors - Current thought is that Fernandez, DeSimone, Reinson and Keogh could be back - so let's say the other 10 take the next step in their lives lacrosse with another team or otherwise - so that's 45
Zinn/Cohen are underclassmen that appear to not be returning - so that's 43
Gibber - comes on - back to 44
-12 incoming freshmen - back to 56

Bottom line - unless somebody ridiculous comes along - like when it was published that Cormier was in the portal for a while - I doubt the transfer market is a huge priority for PM and the staff. Can always use a decent middie - but probably not a one year rental at this stage - but LSM would be maybe be the hole you would look at

[HopFan16]

Bardwell from Cornell makes a lot of sense on paper. Appears to have two years of eligibility left. Experienced and athletic SSDM. That said—none of PM's former Cornell guys have made the jump over to Hopkins. This is pure speculation but I wonder if they are still feeling the sting of him leaving. Not like he was fired—the guy chose to leave Cornell for Hopkins and maybe his former players weren't thrilled with the decision. Who knows.

A few other guys that might make some degree of sense:

- Mitchell (Ohio State)—highly touted underclassman middie with multiple years of eligibility, from Baltimore area
- Dobson (St. Bonaventure)—Canadian goalie with two years of eligibility left, competition was lacking but was 55% or better freshman and junior seasons. If they decide we're still not set at goalie maybe they give him a look
- Knox (Hobart)—Hobart people cautioned that he was having some personal (possibly academic-related?) issues, so no idea if it's an option but, if so, Canadian lefty, prolific goal scorer with two years left. If Grimes moves back to attack you don't really need him but then again Maryland doesn't *need* Khan or Donville
- Landymore (Hartford)—Canadian middie who scored 14 pts in 6 games as a freshman this year—3 years of eligibility left
- St. Geme (Delaware)—had never heard of him but 10stone5 pointed out he was once a PM Cornell recruit before switching to the Hens. SSDM
- Rizzotti (Dartmouth)—LSM with 3(?) years of eligibility left, had *27* caused turnovers in 13 games as a freshman in 2019, All-Ivy selection, PM is surely familiar with him—he might be priority #1 if we're truly in the market for a guy. Kid can play

I have no inside info but if we do take in another transfer my guess would be it's from the list above. Guys with more than 1 year left, many either Canadian and/or have connections to Cornell/PM/Ivy.

The fact that we don't desperately NEED anyone I think is a positive sign. But 51 is correct—if we take somebody, best guess is defensive midfield (SSDM or LSM) or maybe one offensive middie to round out the top two lines. Don't know if it's likely but I also wouldn't completely count out another goalie. Close D is set with Reinson/McManus/Szuluk/Smith/Todaro/etc. FO, A, O-mid mostly set. No gaping holes. Team culture is important—towards the end of the year it looked like we were really starting to come together and PM probably doesn't want to mess with that too much.

[jhu06]

the question is depth. you ran through the starters and 20 or so guys we'll probably see next year, but we also have fall ball and there will be more practices this year and chances kids get hurt and I wonder about the next layer of guys 25-45 on the roster who might not have played much last year, didn't have fall ball last year and had their 2020 campaigns cut short.

[flalax22]

Owen Murphy to Maryland.

[HopFan16]

Owen Murphy to Maryland.

Only one ball. Somebody who was expecting to get significant playing time next year (Malever, Long, Maltz, etc.) is simply not going to see the field very much.

Wish Owen well, except against us. I think he'll have an impact there, though may not start on attack.

[primitiveskills]

Owen Murphy to Maryland.

Only one ball. Somebody who was expecting to get significant playing time next year (Malever, Long, Maltz, etc.) is simply not going to see the field very much.

Wish Owen well, except against us. I think he'll have an impact there, though may not start on attack.

Could get time on EMO but otherwise might have a hard time seeing the field for a year-or-two. Wish him luck, though.

[DocBarrister]

Owen Murphy to Maryland.

Good for him. I’m sure Coach Benson had a big hand in this. I can see him on EMO as others have noted. Best wishes to Murphy.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Bardwell from Cornell makes a lot of sense on paper. Appears to have two years of eligibility left. Experienced and athletic SSDM. That said—none of PM's former Cornell guys have made the jump over to Hopkins. This is pure speculation but I wonder if they are still feeling the sting of him leaving. Not like he was fired—the guy chose to leave Cornell for Hopkins and maybe his former players weren't thrilled with the decision. Who knows.

A few other guys that might make some degree of sense:

- Mitchell (Ohio State)—highly touted underclassman middie with multiple years of eligibility, from Baltimore area
- Dobson (St. Bonaventure)—Canadian goalie with two years of eligibility left, competition was lacking but was 55% or better freshman and junior seasons. If they decide we're still not set at goalie maybe they give him a look
- Knox (Hobart)—Hobart people cautioned that he was having some personal (possibly academic-related?) issues, so no idea if it's an option but, if so, Canadian lefty, prolific goal scorer with two years left. If Grimes moves back to attack you don't really need him but then again Maryland doesn't *need* Khan or Donville
- Landymore (Hartford)—Canadian middie who scored 14 pts in 6 games as a freshman this year—3 years of eligibility left
- St. Geme (Delaware)—had never heard of him but 10stone5 pointed out he was once a PM Cornell recruit before switching to the Hens. SSDM
- Rizzotti (Dartmouth)—LSM with 3(?) years of eligibility left, had *27* caused turnovers in 13 games as a freshman in 2019, All-Ivy selection, PM is surely familiar with him—he might be priority #1 if we're truly in the market for a guy. Kid can play

I have no inside info but if we do take in another transfer my guess would be it's from the list above. Guys with more than 1 year left, many either Canadian and/or have connections to Cornell/PM/Ivy.

The fact that we don't desperately NEED anyone I think is a positive sign. But 51 is correct—if we take somebody, best guess is defensive midfield (SSDM or LSM) or maybe one offensive middie to round out the top two lines. Don't know if it's likely but I also wouldn't completely count out another goalie. Close D is set with Reinson/McManus/Szuluk/Smith/Todaro/etc. FO, A, O-mid mostly set. No gaping holes. Team culture is important—towards the end of the year it looked like we were really starting to come together and PM probably doesn't want to mess with that too much.

I would take every SSDM, LSM, and true middie on that list. Can’t have too many of those.

Worth busting the salary cap and paying the luxury tax to load up in the middle of the field.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

I have not personally interacted with lacrosse-playing Iroquois, but of the American Indians I have known, their first preference was their tribe (in the case of those whom I have known: Cherokee or Seminole), but their second choice was simply Indian.

That said, Native American is nowhere as egregiously bilingually illiterate as Latinx.

Tribe first...First Nations, Native Americans...

"American Indians" has a quite mixed reception, some prefer, some do not..."Indians" pretty universally frowned upon, though not by 100%.

Frowned on by whom? Enlightened academics?

My experience, abeit limited, is that 44 is right. The term "indian" is used regularly, and not in derogatorily, by group members themselves. Then again, they have real issues to deal with. Especially the ones back on the rez.

yes, more frowned upon by activists. Yes, some of those are academics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Am ... ontroversy

Speaking of lacrosse, any word, MDL, on where Peter Rizzotti might land?

DocBarrister

[NYterp09]

Owen Murphy to Maryland.

Only one ball. Somebody who was expecting to get significant playing time next year (Malever, Long, Maltz, etc.) is simply not going to see the field very much.

Wish Owen well, except against us. I think he'll have an impact there, though may not start on attack.

You must be high if you think Long is losing any playing time…dude is one of the best middies in the country and I wouldn’t at all be shocked to see him wear #1 next year. Tillman has loved him since he stepped foot on campus (and for good reason).

Out of the three you mentioned Maltz would seem like the most likely one to lose his spot but everyone assumed Holden and/or Brown were going to be automatic inserts into the starting lineup last season yet they played all year on the 2nd midfield line so we’ll see.

[HopFan16]

Owen Murphy to Maryland.

Only one ball. Somebody who was expecting to get significant playing time next year (Malever, Long, Maltz, etc.) is simply not going to see the field very much.

Wish Owen well, except against us. I think he'll have an impact there, though may not start on attack.

You must be high if you think Long is losing any playing time…dude is one of the best middies in the country and I wouldn’t at all be shocked to see him wear #1 next year. Tillman has loved him since he stepped foot on campus (and for good reason).

Out of the three you mentioned Maltz would seem like the most likely one to lose his spot but everyone assumed Holden and/or Brown were going to be automatic inserts into the starting lineup last season yet they played all year on the 2nd midfield line so we’ll see.

Lot of Maryland fans were saying Long would, or at least should, move full time to attack next year. I tended to agree with them. I highly doubt that happens now. He might not necessarily *lose* playing time but it’s also unlikely to grow much beyond what it’s been, as Terp fans I’ve talked to hoped and expected it would. Same goes for a number of younger guys—Kelly comes to mind—who were hoping to see the field in a meaningful way.

As far as Holden and Brown go—Holden clearly got hurt early on and fell out of favor. Who knows what his season would have been like if healthy. And I don’t recall everyone unanimously declaring Brown was going to be an “automatic insert” into the starting lineup. Maybe before Bernhardt said he was coming back last minute which changed the equation considerably.