Johns Hopkins 2021

[Homewood15]

With respect to Steele as a player and a women’s coach. You don’t enter into a national search if you’re picking the guy from down the hall in Cordish. If you do you lose some credibility as an AD. Again with great respect to his career as a player and coach do you guys really think that choice would be supported in the current locker room? I don’t.

While I agree that SS will not be the next head coach at Hopkins - I wouldn't hate the move - if the best guy is down the hall or in Timbuktu who cares? I think the current locker room might be pretty pumped if he became involved with the program - if I am Joey Epstein or Brendan Grimes (as I have said before) I want to know what that guys knows because - with all due homage to all the great cerebral players such as Boyle and Gill and O'Neill - hard to find anybody who took his athleticism and skill and did more with it because of the space between his ears.

+1 (as OC, not HC)

[Farfromgeneva]

Another small advantage for Raymond

Eric Holden will graduate and his eligibility is unavailable except as a grad student. He's looking for a place to land?

He went 3-2 against the #1 team in the country and was climbing the Tewaaraton List.

He'd add Immediate firepower to an occasionally anemic attack line.

Well if you wanted to make Hobart fans s*%t bricks you could take all three in the portal and they’d probably all start including Sam Luccesi who was a 55% goalie and PJ Delpha who transferred in before the 2019 season from Onondaga CC where he was a 2x AA and JUCO DPOY as a Soph.

[FMUBart]

Thanks to Coach Raymond, the Hobart cupboard is fine, farfromgeneva. If Coach Raymond leaves, let's hope he leaves the "blueprints" for his successor. Oh, and btw, Hobart fans don't s#it bricks, we lay lumber

[gorillalax]

Here we go kids!

Uncle Jimmy the Greek is here to handicap the race (without the racism)

The next Head Coach of the Johns Hopkins Blue Jays Men’s Lacrosse Program will be -


Scott Marr 6/1
Shawn Nadelan 8/1
Seth Tierney 9/1
Brian Holman 12/1
Greg Raymond 16/1
Brian Voelker 20/1
Tucker Durkin 20/1

I’m putting my money on Marr. Don’t believe what you read he wants this job. A better payday and a chance to land top recruits would be refreshing. Do the lacrosse alumni donors want him that remains to be seen. I suspect they will rally around a Seth Tierney type. I believe the admin will want a much more perceived player friendly coach. Who wins the tug of war?

Or they may hire Jim Berkman. Who the hell knows

I agree. My top is Marr then S.Tierney maybe Nads but after that who the heck knows.

[flalax22]

Can anyone name a single top recruit, who panned out into an elite/difference-making player at another D1 team, whose first choice was Hopkins

According to a friend Bob Benson complained often about not getting Rambo and Heacock in.

[HopFan16]

You must be friends with Seth, otherwise it's mind-boggling that anyone would want Tierney over Nadelen. They coach in the same league. Since 2012, the year Nadelen became head coach at Towson...

Nadelen:
- 83-56 overall (.597), 26-16 in CAA (.619)
- 5 NCAA tournament appearances
- 2 NCAA quarterfinals appearances
- 1 NCAA Final Four appearance
- 3 CAA regular season championships
- 5 CAA tournament championships
- Never missed a CAA tournament
- 2017 USILA Coach of the Year

Tierney
- 64-58 overall (.524), 41-30 in CAA (.577)
- 0 NCAA tournament appearances
- 1 CAA regular season championship
- 0 CAA tournament championships
- Missed the CAA tournament 4 times

Nadelen is also 5-3 head to head against Tierney. They've strangely never met in the CAA tournament—probably because Hofstra often doesn't make it that far.

Nads is considerably younger and actually has a track record of success as a D1 head coach. As Jays fans we all owe Tierney a huge debt of gratitude for his fine work as a coordinator/recruiter for those 2000s teams but his record as a head coach leaves a lot to be desired. After a few solid seasons early in his tenure, Hofstra has done absolutely *nothing* since the start of Obama's second term. They have not made an NCAA tournament in 10 seasons.

The scary thing is that Nads probably hasn't even reached his ceiling yet as a head coach—still has more to learn and room to grow. With all due respect to Tierney, we pretty much know what he is by this point. And that is a good coordinator 15-20 years ago, but an underwhelming head coach.

[harflax]

You must be friends with Seth, otherwise it's mind-boggling that anyone would want Tierney over Nadelen. They coach in the same league. Since 2012, the year Nadelen became head coach at Towson...

Nadelen:
- 83-56 overall (.597), 26-16 in CAA (.619)
- 5 NCAA tournament appearances
- 2 NCAA quarterfinals appearances
- 1 NCAA Final Four appearance
- 3 CAA regular season championships
- 5 CAA tournament championships
- Never missed a CAA tournament
- 2017 USILA Coach of the Year

Tierney
- 64-58 overall (.524), 41-30 in CAA (.577)
- 0 NCAA tournament appearances
- 1 CAA regular season championship
- 0 CAA tournament championships
- Missed the CAA tournament 4 times

Nadelen is also 5-3 head to head against Tierney. They've strangely never met in the CAA tournament—probably because Hofstra often doesn't make it that far.

Nads is considerably younger and actually has a track record of success as a D1 head coach. As Jays fans we all owe Tierney a huge debt of gratitude for his fine work as a coordinator/recruiter for those 2000s teams but his record as a head coach leaves a lot to be desired. After a few solid seasons early in his tenure, Hofstra has done absolutely *nothing* since the start of Obama's second term. They have not made an NCAA tournament in 10 seasons.

The scary thing is that Nads probably hasn't even reached his ceiling yet as a head coach—still has more to learn and room to grow. With all due respect to Tierney, we pretty much know what he is by this point. And that is a good coordinator 15-20 years ago, but an underwhelming head coach.

Just so you know with Nadelen you are getting someone similar to Petro minus the emotional outbursts on the sideline. Nads is a really high character guy, a really good coach, but he is extremely demanding and not easy to play for. He has cut players on the field after fall ball scrimmages in front of the entire team. I have heard for years about Petro being borderline verbally abusive. If Hopkins wants a change to a "players coach" Nadelen is definitely does not fit the mold.

[Blackdoglax]

In fairness, I think Dini proved that coaching at Hofstra is not as easy as some assume. Private School tuition without a great academic profile...not super attractive to any kid but Long islanders....as compared to Towson, which is public so cheaper tuition for homegrown talent......

[jrn19]

In fairness, I think Dini proved that coaching at Hofstra is not as easy as some assume. Private School tuition without a great academic profile...not super attractive to any kid but Long islanders....as compared to Towson, which is public so cheaper tuition for homegrown talent......

Danowski made 8 NCAA Tournaments at Hofstra, including 4 Quarterfinals. Over his final 14 years, Hofstra made the tournament more often than they missed it with him, had only 2 losing seasons and 11 winning ones. His last year the were 17-2 and were 1 goal away from the Final Four. When they joined a conference, they won a regular season or tournament title 8x in 12 years and were 72-16 in Conf play. By any measures, Danowski had an immensely successful run at Hofstra, it was one of the reasons he got the Duke job.

As HF16 already pointed out above, in the last 8 seasons before this cancelled one, Hofstra had....3 winning seasons. They have finished 4th in the CAA 5 times and 2nd or better only twice. They’re actually below .500 in conference play in that time frame.

Hofstra has the 13th most NCAA Tournament appearances of any team. They’ve made the tournament more than Georgetown, Brown, Penn, Yale, just to name a few schools. They made the first tournament in ‘71.

It is absolutely possible to be successful at Hofstra, Danowski didn’t prove how difficult it was he proved how much it’s possible. And Tierney’s tenure being so mediocre over the last nearly 10 years just proves his ineffectiveness as a HC.

[Blackdoglax]

Dino is arguably the best coaching the game.....no one is disputing that. Look at what you just said, Dino was at Hofstra 21 years and made 8 NCAA tourneys and only 4 QF’s....no Final Fours or NC’s yet he was a Division 1 Coach of the Year.....

Seth is not a Dino but coaching Hofstra is not so easy. BTW, Hofstra missed the NCAA 15x until 1994......

[DocBarrister]

You must be friends with Seth, otherwise it's mind-boggling that anyone would want Tierney over Nadelen. They coach in the same league. Since 2012, the year Nadelen became head coach at Towson...

Nadelen:
- 83-56 overall (.597), 26-16 in CAA (.619)
- 5 NCAA tournament appearances
- 2 NCAA quarterfinals appearances
- 1 NCAA Final Four appearance
- 3 CAA regular season championships
- 5 CAA tournament championships
- Never missed a CAA tournament
- 2017 USILA Coach of the Year

Tierney
- 64-58 overall (.524), 41-30 in CAA (.577)
- 0 NCAA tournament appearances
- 1 CAA regular season championship
- 0 CAA tournament championships
- Missed the CAA tournament 4 times

Nadelen is also 5-3 head to head against Tierney. They've strangely never met in the CAA tournament—probably because Hofstra often doesn't make it that far.

Nads is considerably younger and actually has a track record of success as a D1 head coach. As Jays fans we all owe Tierney a huge debt of gratitude for his fine work as a coordinator/recruiter for those 2000s teams but his record as a head coach leaves a lot to be desired. After a few solid seasons early in his tenure, Hofstra has done absolutely *nothing* since the start of Obama's second term. They have not made an NCAA tournament in 10 seasons.

The scary thing is that Nads probably hasn't even reached his ceiling yet as a head coach—still has more to learn and room to grow. With all due respect to Tierney, we pretty much know what he is by this point. And that is a good coordinator 15-20 years ago, but an underwhelming head coach.

Just so you know with Nadelen you are getting someone similar to Petro minus the emotional outbursts on the sideline. Nads is a really high character guy, a really good coach, but he is extremely demanding and not easy to play for. He has cut players on the field after fall ball scrimmages in front of the entire team. I have heard for years about Petro being borderline verbally abusive. If Hopkins wants a change to a "players coach" Nadelen is definitely does not fit the mold.

No inside information, just intuition ... but, I don’t think the current administration let Petro go just because of his win-loss record. I think they are looking for a different style and tone ... a style and tone that will wear well with parents and players in the 2020s and 2030s.

Either Nadelen or Raymond may get the job, but I’m thinking those two are too close to Petro in style and tone to nail down the gig. Would not be shocked if the purported “Rapine Incident” played a role in Petro’s dismissal (assuming the reports are true).

I am wondering if the AD is looking for a young version of John Danowski, a head coach who has a relatively genteel coaching style. Any Division I head coaches fit that profile?

DocBarrister

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

No. Not Rapine at all.

This goes way back to 2013 as a starting point. I’ve repeatedly laid this out for anyone wanting to follow the bread crumbs.

Schnydmann understandably retires. Gets away from RD. Can’t blame him one bit from what I’ve heard.

2013 hits the fan. A lot of political chips are cashed in, but worse - an ego battle of who is most important of the University takes shape. And it’s not going to be a lacrosse coach. And we are far removed from the supportive Brody era.

Calder pushed over to Development after 2015 season.

New AD, who will be tasked to do dirty work.

Bob Scott passes. More top cover and influence lost.

No contract renewal two years ago. RED FLAG.

No contract renewal last year, and a new AD to do the dirty work. This is full HURRICANE WARNING at this point.

Created a lame duck coaching situation, which wasn’t fair, and showed me Hopkins was too damn cheap to buy him out.

This wasn’t about wins and losses. I agree with you on that.

It wasn’t business either.

It was personal.

Believe me or not. I have more tidbits to back all of this up, but I’m going to sleep.

I’ll admire Coach Pietramala for being extremely loyal, and working determinedly hard on recruiting despite the handwriting being on the wall for years. He is Hopkins through and through.

[OCanada]

Good chronology Wombat. You can’t hit everyone of them but you got most of them.

This is personal and it is Daniels. They fired the entire coaching staff including the kid who was managing lax operations.

Recall the rolling suspension year when Daniels wanted to cancel the season but was forced to back down and accept rolling suspensions? Quote from Daniels “who is running this university Petro or me?”. Actually he used the full name. As Wombat said there are a lot of bread crumbs. This was never about record and never about sports in general imo. There is a big difference between running a national title caliber D-1 program and D-llll programs. Daniels stopped investing in the program. Admission standards were raised and it became far more difficult to get in players than anytime in the past. Hopkins didn’t have the money to give out a lot of financial aid until the Bloomberg gift. Once it did we started getting better recruits. Daniels prevented the bubble from being built. There is no one left in the administration to nurture the program. It’s the reason Tierney left Princeton. DP had a 5 year contract that expired. Calder was moved out a few years ago. That was an enormous red flag. The minute the contract ended DP was let go.Hopkins has never had the situation where the President did not place high value in the program. Not Eisenhower or Muller or Bill. There
is no one left at the university to champion the program as it was championed in the past. No ties to the past. No one to stand up for it. The treatment they all got at the end was shabby and I am being kind.

There are no coaches left at a time when many of the best seniors are looking for a home. There are
blue chip recruits for 2021 and 2022Z. All those players will be in play now. I was pretty confident on a couple of seniors. No more. We have a few of ours entering the portal.

A national search? Please. Hopkins has never had to hire a search firm. Never. And it doesn’t know. The fact they did is revealing. Duh. The lacrosse advisory committee is pretty much window dressing at this point.

Some of the coaches I have seen mentioned as favored candidates do not get the same favorable reviews from some other coaches.

Within minutes of the announcement I got a call from a former first teamer whose son was a first teamer at another school whose first sentence was “What the heck is going on down there”

I was never intending to post again but oh well. The exception that proves the rule

[44WeWantMore]

UA pulling out of lax?

https://twitter.com/LacrosseInside2/sta ... 73986?s=20

[flalax22]

I’m confused and maybe Wombat and OC can help me out. If the slide started in 2013 was the issue Daniels or the players mom that complained about the hazing?

[Sagittarius A*]

The correlation between the arrival of Daniels, spring 2009, and the downward trajectory of the lacrosse program is too strong to ignore. Given the long history of Hopkins lacrosse, the odds of those two events being uncorrelated is less than a percent. When the analytics and the analysis of subject matter experts converge, you have a solution to the mystery, if it even is one at this point.

The question is, what happens now moving forward? There are some high reputation academic schools like Stanford and Duke that actively promote and do well in D1 Athletics. Then you have other schools like Yale, Princeton, and Cornell that aren't football/basketball powerhouses but are trying to be great at LAX. There's no reason Hopkins can't maintain its LAX profile while at the same time fostering its reputation as an academic institution. Note to Mr. Ron Daniels: BOTH are POSSIBLE!!!!

This perhaps suggests that Hopkins AD will seek a younger coach who won't be a pain to the admin but will just do what he can with what he's got. Another possibility is that a high profile coach (Shay or Tillman for the sake of argument) shows interest and has a discussion with the AD to the effect of "I'd consider coaching here, provided I get some support from the University." That could change things potentially. I'm thinking right now that that would be the best possible outcome for us. Marr might also be willing to leverage that discussion if they're interested in him. By contrast, NADS and Raymond would have less bargaining power here, but would both be wise to broach the issue carefully.

I too thought the writing was on the wall in the Fall when they let the coach go into a lame duck season. My gut feeling now is that they have a couple candidates in their sights and that the Hiring Firm is just a smoke screen. My feeling is that a better overall deal with the ADMIN can be worked right now by the right HC candidate, someone they really want. Overall, I think Hopkins Lacrosse will come out better in the long run IMO, and we'll see more success on the field, hopefully not suffering too much short term transfer pain in the process.

[youthathletics]

I’m confused and maybe Wombat and OC can help me out. If the slide started in 2013 was the issue Daniels or the players mom that complained about the hazing?

Interesting argument. One that is all too common in athletics....the players and the parents. Which is why coaches of all types tweet and say, they are also recruiting parents when recruiting players. This is also a similar event that resembles UVA and Starsia. Kids screwing around and getting in trouble, making the newspapers, w-l record slips, parents complaining, alums start complaining....bread crumbs also follow both paths at the fork in the road. RD may have personal reasons and the team did not help matters.

Around 2013 is also when the Early Recruiting really ramped up, that Summer of 2013 was when that HS class of 2016 was being heavily recruited as rising 8th and 9th graders. Maybe Daniels did give some leniency in 2013, and now the piper is not getting paid?

[HopFan16]

This is also a similar event that resembles UVA and Starsia. Kids screwing around and getting in trouble, making the newspapers

That's certainly one way of putting what happened in Charlottesville...

Scott Marr did a Q&A with Lax.com on Instagram, he was asked about the Hopkins opening and this was his response, verbatim:

thanks for question...at this point it is early in process so we will be patient and see where it goes thanks

[flalax22]

Scott Marr did a Q&A with Lax.com on Instagram, he was asked about the Hopkins opening and this was his response, verbatim:

thanks for question...at this point it is early in process so we will be patient and see where it goes thanks

That is certainly not a denial. That guy is in with both feet now let’s see where the admin and alumni take this.

[Sagittarius A*]

Scott Marr did a Q&A with Lax.com on Instagram, he was asked about the Hopkins opening and this was his response, verbatim:

thanks for question...at this point it is early in process so we will be patient and see where it goes thanks

That is certainly not a denial. That guy is in with both feet now let’s see where the admin and alumni take this.

Interesting podcast with Scott Marr from 2018:

https://laxallstars.com/scott-marr-gamechanger/

Scott Marr: Empathy, Compassion, Being Yourself