Or....we are currently witnessing them try their hardest.....thus proving their existence.jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:13 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:22 pmQ'Anon conspiracy theory...about as credible as any of the rest of their claptrapold salt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:48 pmMuch of the WB's claim had already been leaked & published, attributed to unnamed current & former officials.a fan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:36 pmWe're going to hear this "defense" from right wing media non-stop from here on out, so we might as well give this a name. It's the "Wetness of water is party dependent" defense. It makes no sense no matter how many times this" defense" is rolled out.
Respectfully, Old Salt, we've been over this. It doesn't matter if there is bias. Are the allegations true, or not true? The person making the complaint is immaterial to the conversation. At no point do we have to judge the WB, because it's not about the WB's opinion on some abstract subject.
This defense was trotted out during Muller and Strozk. And this defense was even more bizarre, because Strozk found no evidence of what would normally be considered to be a criminal offense by the President. So Strozk found the POTUS not guilty, in effect. But R's still hit him for bias. Weird.
But in any event this ignores the obvious corollary. If the WB's complaint is invalidated because he hates Trump, does it not follow that the complaint is invalidated if he loves Trump? Of course it does. The water is wet defense seeks to confuse citizens to the point where they ignore whether or not the WB's allegations are true or not. And we already know that the primary complaint is true, because Trump told us it was.
They're allowed to change rules. And it appears that they did it to get WB complaints through on Trump. Considering what has transpired, and that Trump has confirmed the key allegation, is this rule change bad?
If that law wasn't changed, odds are, this would have simply been leaked. Is that your preferred path? I would think you'd want it to be EASIER to use the WB act, not harder.
The WB (& apparently his informants) did not have access to the transcript in the super secret server, so they were unable to leak it.
This was a mechanism to force the declassification & release of the transcript, as fodder for impeachment.
+1
If a deep state existed and wanted to bring down Orange Duce -- he would be in his grave already.
Trump's Russian Collusion
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Never thought otherwise. The right is extremely desperate. You know there is going to be a civil war if Trump is impeached; the stock market will crash; everyone will lose their jobs; and Jesus will weep.Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:43 am “There has never been any requirement that #whistleblowers were required to possess first-hand knowledge to file complaint. No law anywhere states that.” Says the lawyer for Deep Whistle. The story about some last minute change to that requirement is false, pushed by Republican trolls.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:18 amand tried for treason...
If folks don't understand who this guy really is by now, he's going to make it very clear...
Yup, he is really pushing the dial on the unhinged meter higher every day now.
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Trumps plans to step down on Monday: https://www.instagram.com/p/B3CMppqpBYr ... _copy_link
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
BREAKING NEWS: Mexico agrees to pay for Impeachment!
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Same goes for leakers. Good luck in court.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:29 pm The WB law does not forbid the DNI from consulting the ODNI GC or the DoJ OLC.
Nor does it grant the DNI the authority to ignore Exec Privilege.
The DNI followed the ICWPA, as interpreted by the ODNI GC & the DoJ OLC.
Don't blame the DNI for following proper channels in navigating the ambiguities of a law that clearly did not envision nor address the potential conflicting rights of a President, if accused. A law so ambiguous that it apparently allows the IC IG to modify critical triggering criteria, just by making an admin change to a complaint form.
If the DNI broke the law, Congress can sue & SCOTUS can rule on his actions & the Constitutionality of the ICWPA if executed in the manner you assert that it should have been. Good luck in court.
If that's how you want to look at it, there's also nothing, anywhere in the WB law, preventing the DNI from walking this complaint right up to Trump, and handing it to him.
As a citizen, I'd like to think that the DNI is smart enough, and has enough common sense not to do that.
Smart enough to simply follow procedure, and think it through.
For example, what harm does it to either the intel, or the WB to hand it over to the Intel Committee? The primary job of the DNI in this case is to protect the WB, as well as the classified info.
In what world does handing this complaint to Trump's direct report, Barr, achieve that goal? Or more to my point: is there anything in the law preventing Barr from simply handing that WB complaint over to Trump.
No. So what would that tell a DNI who uses a little common sense?
I'm sorry, but your argument simply doesn't make sense here. What the DNI did wasn't in the interest of the WB. Full stop.
Last edited by a fan on Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Beautiful
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
“Common sense” and “the right thing” will make more sense than “Sycophancy” every time.a fan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:02 pmSame goes for leakers. Good luck in court.old salt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:29 pm The WB law does not forbid the DNI from consulting the ODNI GC or the DoJ OLC.
Nor does it grant the DNI the authority to ignore Exec Privilege.
The DNI followed the ICWPA, as interpreted by the ODNI GC & the DoJ OLC.
Don't blame the DNI for following proper channels in navigating the ambiguities of a law that clearly did not envision nor address the potential conflicting rights of a President, if accused. A law so ambiguous that it apparently allows the IC IG to modify critical triggering criteria, just by making an admin change to a complaint form.
If the DNI broke the law, Congress can sue & SCOTUS can rule on his actions & the Constitutionality of the ICWPA if executed in the manner you assert that it should have been. Good luck in court.
If that's how you want to look at it, there's also nothing, anywhere in the WB law, preventing the DNI from walking this complaint right up to Trump, and handing it to him.
As a citizen, I'd like to think that the DNI is smart enough, and has enough common sense not to do that.
Smart enough to simply follow procedure, and think it through.
For example, what harm does it to either the intel, or the WB to hand it over to the Intel Committee? The primary job of the DNI in this case is to protect the WB, as well as the classified info.
In what world does handing this complaint to Trump's direct report, Barr, achieve that goal? Or more to my point: is there anything in the law preventing Barr from simply handing that WB complaint over to Trump.
No. So what would that tell a DNI who uses a little common sense?
I'm sorry, but your argument simply doesn't make sense here. What the DNI did wasn't in the interest of the WB. Full stop.
“I wish you would!”
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
.....and they're selling blow up dolls to raise the funds.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:23 pmNever thought otherwise. The right is extremely desperate. You know there is going to be a civil war if Trump is impeached; the stock market will crash; everyone will lose their jobs; and Jesus will weep.Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:43 am “There has never been any requirement that #whistleblowers were required to possess first-hand knowledge to file complaint. No law anywhere states that.” Says the lawyer for Deep Whistle. The story about some last minute change to that requirement is false, pushed by Republican trolls.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear
The Russia propaganda machine was actively pushing that civil war threat originally made by right-wing broadcaster Michael Savage. It's even in the criminal complaint filed in federal court.
https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/statu ... r-probe%2F
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Be right back.....
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
~Livy
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
The OLC lawyer was the same guy who was fine with authorizing torture for the Bush Administration.
Not at all surprised he continues the support of executive overreach, by republicans.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
I get it that you think everyone else is stupid and/or corrupt and/or otherwise to be dismissed...unless it's Tulsi or some climate denier...but we part company on McCain, who was, by his own report, far from perfect, but then again who is not?ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:40 amSo pathetic. NO.....it's very much a Veteran thing. trump got more votes in Massachusettes than Mclame did. What does that tell you?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:17 am
There are quite a few 'wimps' who attack John McCain, so if you want to place yourself among them, so be it.
Interestingly, it's very much a Trumpist thing, RRR, so it's another instance where you agree with that worldview.
Any military officer, now elected official, that attacks a high school girl IS very much a Trumpist thing. Why you don't see this is pathetic.
"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father ? " quote/joke from Sen. John McCain.
But, he regretted it.....so it's ok.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Oops, Salty was pushing that one as well...Salty, you gonna back away from that BS now?jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:23 pmNever thought otherwise. The right is extremely desperate. You know there is going to be a civil war if Trump is impeached; the stock market will crash; everyone will lose their jobs; and Jesus will weep.Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:43 am “There has never been any requirement that #whistleblowers were required to possess first-hand knowledge to file complaint. No law anywhere states that.” Says the lawyer for Deep Whistle. The story about some last minute change to that requirement is false, pushed by Republican trolls.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
And it's flat out ok to make up dump....these clowns should have to pay the price for lying, D or R!!MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:31 pmOops, Salty was pushing that one as well...Salty, you gonna back away from that BS now?jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:23 pmNever thought otherwise. The right is extremely desperate. You know there is going to be a civil war if Trump is impeached; the stock market will crash; everyone will lose their jobs; and Jesus will weep.Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:43 am “There has never been any requirement that #whistleblowers were required to possess first-hand knowledge to file complaint. No law anywhere states that.” Says the lawyer for Deep Whistle. The story about some last minute change to that requirement is false, pushed by Republican trolls.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear
“Whistleblowers were required to provide direct, first-hand knowledge of allegations,” reads a Saturday tweet by House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. “But just days before the Ukraine whistleblower came forward, the IC secretly removed that requirement from the complaint form.”
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
No one changed the forking rules you moron!Donald J. Trump
Verified account @realDonaldTrump
WHO CHANGED THE LONG STANDING WHISTLEBLOWER RULES JUST BEFORE SUBMITTAL OF THE FAKE WHISTLEBLOWER REPORT? DRAIN THE SWAMP!
5:43 AM - 30 Sep 2019
The form was recently re-formatted. But the current and prior form always allowed WB reports based on second hand info.
As is typical, the guy screaming fake news is the premiere generator of complete bull shirt.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Bone Spurs has finally broken 50% in approval polls!!
55% approve of Trump...being investigated for impeachment.
Only 43% (per 538 average) actually approve of Trump himself.
55% approve of Trump...being investigated for impeachment.
Only 43% (per 538 average) actually approve of Trump himself.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
I've already explained it. I never said it was a requirement to file. I said it was a requirement for a IC WP complaint to be designated as "urgent", thus triggering the 14/7 day limit for forwarding to Congress, truncating the time available for the IC IG to investigate.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:31 pmOops, Salty was pushing that one as well...Salty, you gonna back away from that BS now?jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:23 pmNever thought otherwise. The right is extremely desperate. You know there is going to be a civil war if Trump is impeached; the stock market will crash; everyone will lose their jobs; and Jesus will weep.Trinity wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:43 am “There has never been any requirement that #whistleblowers were required to possess first-hand knowledge to file complaint. No law anywhere states that.” Says the lawyer for Deep Whistle. The story about some last minute change to that requirement is false, pushed by Republican trolls.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear
As usual, you falsely restate what I post.
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Re: IMPEACHMENT ...from Mueller to Ukraine to ??
Keep citing polls. 538 only had HRC at 78% probability on 11/8/16. Or maybe the NYT Upshot projection. That needle looked like I was filling my Yukon at the local WaWa.
"I would never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", Groucho Marx