January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[MDlaxfan76]

My brother-in-law (according to him) never went through any broken doors or windows, never entered the Capitol building, knew that would be illegal, and when he learned what had gone down (claims he didn't know at the time despite being on the Capitol steps) he was horrified that people violently fought the police, breached the Capitol, threatened those inside. And he didn't brag about it on social media.

That said, he did enter the grounds and IMO is therefore guilty of criminal trespass. Still thinks the election was rigged.

Not sure how much I believe of his story, could he really have been so naive? Maybe.

I'm all aboard on differential penalties...Which means that these guys definitely deserve punishment, the only question, Salty, is how much. IMO, definitely felony level.

Did you report him to the authorities, since you question his story?

nope. I love my wife.

I think he's genuinely chagrined to have been associated with what he'd assumed would simply be a protest, not violence much less an insurrection. He didn't make it to the rally so didn't hear the rhetoric; His expectation on the walk to the Capitol was not that they would stop the process but rather that some of the politicians would come out to speak, that they would be 'heard'. He was at the tail end of that march, so not on the front lines of the violence. He did make his way to the steps, did experience tear gas three times...so, I find it hard to believe that he was truly oblivious to the violence, given so much of it all around the building...he says he thinks that's because he was lower than where that was occurring...well, maybe, but still feels sketchy to me. Whatever else he may be, delusional etc, he tends to be very straight on honesty.

That said, I think there were probably multiple thousands there who were similar to him in that they did not come expecting, much less prepared for violence, nor participated in violence. However, I do think most of them genuinely wanted the process to stop and for the election to be recounted, rerun, whatever...they really did buy the Big Lie, really did believe "their President" won...for that I mostly blame Trump and all the a-holes who encouraged that Big Lie. Not that my brother-in-law and those like him aren't culpable, but the most serious criminals are Trump and his bootlickers. We see zero remorse from these fascists.

Out of the nearly 10,000 there, it's easy to imagine that half or even more weren't participants in the actual violence or breach of the building. However, their presence gave enormous weight to the threat the police felt. The police had no idea how much of that crowd was actually armed and violent, all they could see was a veritable sea of anger and violence, and they knew the overall magnitude of the crowd. That provided an umbrella to the most violent insurrectionists.

[cradleandshoot]

My brother-in-law (according to him) never went through any broken doors or windows, never entered the Capitol building, knew that would be illegal, and when he learned what had gone down (claims he didn't know at the time despite being on the Capitol steps) he was horrified that people violently fought the police, breached the Capitol, threatened those inside. And he didn't brag about it on social media.

That said, he did enter the grounds and IMO is therefore guilty of criminal trespass. Still thinks the election was rigged.

Not sure how much I believe of his story, could he really have been so naive? Maybe.

I'm all aboard on differential penalties...Which means that these guys definitely deserve punishment, the only question, Salty, is how much. IMO, definitely felony level.

Did you report him to the authorities, since you question his story?

nope. I love my wife.

I think he's genuinely chagrined to have been associated with what he'd assumed would simply be a protest, not violence much less an insurrection. He didn't make it to the rally so didn't hear the rhetoric; His expectation on the walk to the Capitol was not that they would stop the process but rather that some of the politicians would come out to speak, that they would be 'heard'. He was at the tail end of that march, so not on the front lines of the violence. He did make his way to the steps, did experience tear gas three times...so, I find it hard to believe that he was truly oblivious to the violence, given so much of it all around the building...he says he thinks that's because he was lower than where that was occurring...well, maybe, but still feels sketchy to me. Whatever else he may be, delusional etc, he tends to be very straight on honesty.

That said, I think there were probably multiple thousands there who were similar to him in that they did not come expecting, much less prepared for violence, nor participated in violence. However, I do think most of them genuinely wanted the process to stop and for the election to be recounted, rerun, whatever...they really did buy the Big Lie, really did believe "their President" won...for that I mostly blame Trump and all the a-holes who encouraged that Big Lie. Not that my brother-in-law and those like him aren't culpable, but the most serious criminals are Trump and his bootlickers. We see zero remorse from these fascists.

Out of the nearly 10,000 there, it's easy to imagine that half or even more weren't participants in the actual violence or breach of the building. However, their presence gave enormous weight to the threat the police felt. The police had no idea how much of that crowd was actually armed and violent, all they could see was a veritable sea of anger and violence, and they knew the overall magnitude of the crowd. That provided an umbrella to the most violent insurrectionists.

Very honest and spot on analysis. I have no business questioning your brother in laws decision making but what was he seriously thinking was going to happen? All it took was a small number of folks with bad intentions to turn the whole march into a sheepdip show. It seems like the same scenario plays out in all kinds of "peaceful protests"

[seacoaster]

My brother-in-law (according to him) never went through any broken doors or windows, never entered the Capitol building, knew that would be illegal, and when he learned what had gone down (claims he didn't know at the time despite being on the Capitol steps) he was horrified that people violently fought the police, breached the Capitol, threatened those inside. And he didn't brag about it on social media.

That said, he did enter the grounds and IMO is therefore guilty of criminal trespass. Still thinks the election was rigged.

Not sure how much I believe of his story, could he really have been so naive? Maybe.

I'm all aboard on differential penalties...Which means that these guys definitely deserve punishment, the only question, Salty, is how much. IMO, definitely felony level.

Did you report him to the authorities, since you question his story?

I did. I dropped a dime on MD's B-in-L as a service to him and his spouse. Pro bono. I'm that kind of guy.

You hitting the malbec already?

Let's clear this up: I dislike malbec. My drinks of choice are a beer, Oban, and the occasional gin and tonic on a hot day in the summer. I drink wine with food. Bourbon and I have a bad relationship; we are divorced.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

[MDlaxfan76]

My brother-in-law (according to him) never went through any broken doors or windows, never entered the Capitol building, knew that would be illegal, and when he learned what had gone down (claims he didn't know at the time despite being on the Capitol steps) he was horrified that people violently fought the police, breached the Capitol, threatened those inside. And he didn't brag about it on social media.

That said, he did enter the grounds and IMO is therefore guilty of criminal trespass. Still thinks the election was rigged.

Not sure how much I believe of his story, could he really have been so naive? Maybe.

I'm all aboard on differential penalties...Which means that these guys definitely deserve punishment, the only question, Salty, is how much. IMO, definitely felony level.

Did you report him to the authorities, since you question his story?

nope. I love my wife.

I think he's genuinely chagrined to have been associated with what he'd assumed would simply be a protest, not violence much less an insurrection. He didn't make it to the rally so didn't hear the rhetoric; His expectation on the walk to the Capitol was not that they would stop the process but rather that some of the politicians would come out to speak, that they would be 'heard'. He was at the tail end of that march, so not on the front lines of the violence. He did make his way to the steps, did experience tear gas three times...so, I find it hard to believe that he was truly oblivious to the violence, given so much of it all around the building...he says he thinks that's because he was lower than where that was occurring...well, maybe, but still feels sketchy to me. Whatever else he may be, delusional etc, he tends to be very straight on honesty.

That said, I think there were probably multiple thousands there who were similar to him in that they did not come expecting, much less prepared for violence, nor participated in violence. However, I do think most of them genuinely wanted the process to stop and for the election to be recounted, rerun, whatever...they really did buy the Big Lie, really did believe "their President" won...for that I mostly blame Trump and all the a-holes who encouraged that Big Lie. Not that my brother-in-law and those like him aren't culpable, but the most serious criminals are Trump and his bootlickers. We see zero remorse from these fascists.

Out of the nearly 10,000 there, it's easy to imagine that half or even more weren't participants in the actual violence or breach of the building. However, their presence gave enormous weight to the threat the police felt. The police had no idea how much of that crowd was actually armed and violent, all they could see was a veritable sea of anger and violence, and they knew the overall magnitude of the crowd. That provided an umbrella to the most violent insurrectionists.

Very honest and spot on analysis. I have no business questioning your brother in laws decision making but what was he seriously thinking was going to happen? All it took was a small number of folks with bad intentions to turn the whole march into a sheepdip show. It seems like the same scenario plays out in all kinds of "peaceful protests"

Yup. Actually I think we all have a right and 'business' in questioning the decision making of these knuckleheads (and those worse). Really, really bad 'decision-making. As much as I think the decision to be there at all was wrongheaded, and he sure as shooting should have known that entering the grounds was illegal, I think my sharpest criticism would be that he didn't immediately skedaddle once there was a whiff of violence, eg tear gas in the air.

But it wasn't a 'small number of folks' who turned this thing violent and into an actual insurrection...unless what you're saying is that relative to the 10,000, the # of people who were actually organized in advance to be violent is 'small'. Probably true...but we're not talking about just a dozen or so such...an awful lot of the participants were talking on social media in advance about things turning violent. My brother-in-law doesn't do much social media stuff at all, so his input about the protest was mostly Fox and "the President is inviting us to come"...

And yeah, when protests go bad, it's often not the whole crowd, rather its a relatively small sub segment that takes it that level. And then chaos.

[MDlaxfan76]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

Absolutely. Get the records, put him in the hot seat.

And who else heard those calls?

[seacoaster]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

Absolutely. Get the records, put him in the hot seat.

And who else heard those calls?

It's genius-level stuff:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1420827835246186496

Never passed the bar exam. Never sponsored any meaningful legislation. But he "talks fast" and doesn't wear a jacket.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

Absolutely. Get the records, put him in the hot seat.

And who else heard those calls?

It's genius-level stuff:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1420827835246186496

Never passed the bar exam. Never sponsored any meaningful legislation. But he "talks fast" and doesn't wear a jacket.

Remarkable…his sleeves weren’t rolled up!

[seacoaster]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

Absolutely. Get the records, put him in the hot seat.

And who else heard those calls?

It's genius-level stuff:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1420827835246186496

Never passed the bar exam. Never sponsored any meaningful legislation. But he "talks fast" and doesn't wear a jacket.

Remarkable…

The guy is not even a legislator; it appears his purpose is to be contrary and spout opposition talking points, which, in the clip, he totally fumbles like a miniature poodle when it sees a Rottweiler. POS.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

Absolutely. Get the records, put him in the hot seat.

And who else heard those calls?

It's genius-level stuff:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1420827835246186496

Never passed the bar exam. Never sponsored any meaningful legislation. But he "talks fast" and doesn't wear a jacket.

Remarkable…

The guy is not even a legislator; it appears his purpose is to be contrary and spout opposition talking points, which, in the clip, he totally fumbles like a miniature poodle when it sees a Rottweiler. POS.

But he owned Hillary…

[youthathletics]

You hitting the malbec already?

Let's clear this up: I dislike malbec. My drinks of choice are a beer, Oban, and the occasional gin and tonic on a hot day in the summer. I drink wine with food. Bourbon and I have a bad relationship; we are divorced.

I have been dabbling a bit more in Scotch and Irish Whisky....have not tried Oban. Really enjoying Laphroaig 10 year and Balvenie 12 Yr Doublewood.

[Peter Brown]

Anyone see Jim Jordan’s interview regarding talking to Trump on January 6th? Subpoena his phone records. No wonder he wasn’t on the committee selected…

Absolutely. Get the records, put him in the hot seat.

And who else heard those calls?

It's genius-level stuff:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1420827835246186496

Never passed the bar exam. Never sponsored any meaningful legislation. But he "talks fast" and doesn't wear a jacket.

Remarkable…

The guy is not even a legislator; it appears his purpose is to be contrary and spout opposition talking points, which, in the clip, he totally fumbles like a miniature poodle when it sees a Rottweiler. POS.

But he owned Hillary…

Al the usual suspects who think they’re dunking on Jim are desperate to be proven correct, for once. So you skip over some obvious truths in his reply where he said ‘yes I did speak to the President’. Before or after the violence? ‘Not sure’.

I mean, if you were him you might know if it was before or after either. Or you could, assuming you were planning a coup. But if not, it’s fair to believe someone if they have no idea what time they spoke with another human on a day six months ago. You guys know what time you posted six months ago without written records?

But like I always say, slow your fevered roll, fellas. You’re so desperate to get/kneecap the Republican Party, often you forget to first collect facts.

(btw, an aside, and it’s not entirely relevant because all he was doing was reposting an actual journalists interview, but Aaron Rupar isn’t a journalist).

[old salt]

Seems to me that given all of his shenanigans with regard to violating terms of bail appear to validate the assertions made by prosecutors and sustained by the judge.

He did not violate the terms of his bail (by buying the guns) until after he had been charged with felony obstruction, rather than just misdemeanor trespass, as in the case of MAGAGranny in the hallway. You're a former Fed juror, is lack of remorse grounds for felony, rather than misdemeanor, charges for the same offense ?

[old salt]

That said, he did enter the grounds and IMO is therefore guilty of criminal trespass.

Is he ? IF by the time he entered the grounds --
-- the police had retreated, the barriers carried away, no warning signs visible, & he was just moving with a large crowd ?

That's probably why not everyone in the crowd who set foot on the Capitol grounds is being charged.

[old salt]

Which is exactly why I asked Salty for his 'take' on this when he first posted their BS claims they were 'ushered in'. I didn't know what his take would be, so I asked.

It's obvious these a-holes deserve to be in jail, the only question to me is for how long. Obviously there's go to be a trial (or plea), which will determine the magnitude of the punishment, the extent of their crimes, but it really should be a no-brainer when I ask whether Salty's buying their BS.

That's the problem with this BS; sometimes things should be simple. But some folks always want to give the benefit of the doubt to right wing, white idiots and nut jobs . But not anyone else.

...just hope your brother-in-law get's a Soros funded prosecutor or Kamala's 501.c.3 will have to make bail for him.

[old salt]

All it took was a small number of folks with bad intentions to turn the whole march into a sheepdip show. It seems like the same scenario plays out in all kinds of "peaceful protests"

That does not matter if the cause is noble, ...& is anti-Trump, rather than pro-Trump.

[Typical Lax Dad]

All it took was a small number of folks with bad intentions to turn the whole march into a sheepdip show. It seems like the same scenario plays out in all kinds of "peaceful protests"

That does not matter if the cause is noble, ...& is anti-Trump, rather than pro-Trump.

It’s racism.

[Peter Brown]

All it took was a small number of folks with bad intentions to turn the whole march into a sheepdip show. It seems like the same scenario plays out in all kinds of "peaceful protests"

That does not matter if the cause is noble, ...& is anti-Trump, rather than pro-Trump.

It’s racism.

Racism.

https://www.startribune.com/riots-arson ... 570921492/

Riots, arson leave Minnesota communities of color devastated

[FannOLax]

Let's clear this up: I dislike malbec. My drinks of choice are a beer, Oban, and the occasional gin and tonic on a hot day in the summer. I drink wine with food. Bourbon and I have a bad relationship; we are divorced.

Not much to like about malbec. If you like reds, Chilean carmenere is nice (carmenere is of French origin, but disease wiped out the grape in France and it turns out they'd sent some cuttings/plants to Chile). I had to google Oban; I'm not a whiskey drinker. Beer, yes. A G&T can be refreshing. It's Friday. Hmmm, Moosehead or Guinness?? Decisions, decisions....

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let's clear this up: I dislike malbec. My drinks of choice are a beer, Oban, and the occasional gin and tonic on a hot day in the summer. I drink wine with food. Bourbon and I have a bad relationship; we are divorced.

Not much to like about malbec. If you like reds, Chilean carmenere is nice (carmenere is of French origin, but disease wiped out the grape in France and it turns out they'd sent some cuttings/plants to Chile). I had to google Oban; I'm not a whiskey drinker. Beer, yes. A G&T can be refreshing. It's Friday. Hmmm, Moosehead or Guinness?? Decisions, decisions....

Moosehead or Guinness!! Why not add St. Pauli Girl!? You can do better: Jever, Weihenstephaner, Augustiner, Rothaus Pils, Paulaner are all acceptable.