Johns Hopkins 2021

[Homer]

Was he fighting the good fight knowing full well the time has passed for Hopkins, and schools like them, to be what they once were?

What do you mean by "schools like them?"

[DocBarrister]

A Hicksville, N.Y., native, Pietramala came to Hopkins in 1986 and earned National Player of the Year honors in 1989. He has an association with every other coach in the immediate Baltimore area, having played for UMBC's Don Zimmerman, spending one season as an assistant for Loyola's Dave Cottle, then three more (1994-97) under Towson's Tony Seaman when he was at Hopkins.

During his previous time at Hopkins, Pietramala developed the reputation of being a first-rate recruiter, having helped bring in several key players that helped Haus' teams over the past few years. At Cornell, he continued that trend, as two of the players he brought in - Justin Cynor and Ryan McClay - earned All-America honors this season.

On the field, Cornell improved in a short time, and the coach of Ivy League rival and national finalist Princeton had no trouble pinpointing why.

"You get intensity, and you get a team that knows you better than most," Bill Tierney said. "Hopkins is getting the next great coach in lacrosse."



https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xp ... story.html

Seems just like yesterday.

DocBarrister

[Matnum PI]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

[44WeWantMore]

Did I miss something? I do not think I heard anything beyond what has been posted here and on LaxPower for a couple of years:
- JHU is more expensive than many alternatives
- RD is focused on USN&WR rankings, with implications for (less) admissions help
- There are no big-shots in the upper echelons of Administration prominently supporting lax, or even athletics in general (I have heard that MB is at best indifferent to athletics, and I would not be surprised if RD has received that message)
- Lax Players at JHU do not "enjoy" the kind of segregated experience (in the classrooms, dorms, dining, etc.) some P5 schools can offer, and (implied) that the CC is merely table stakes, not a differentiator.

[Sagittarius A*]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

Pretty interesting how much blame he lays at Daniel's feet.

[runrussellrun]

Did I miss something? I do not think I heard anything beyond what has been posted here and on LaxPower for a couple of years:
- JHU is more expensive than many alternatives
- RD is focused on USN&WR rankings, with implications for (less) admissions help
- There are no big-shots in the upper echelons of Administration prominently supporting lax, or even athletics in general (I have heard that MB is at best indifferent to athletics, and I would not be surprised if RD has received that message)
- Lax Players at JHU do not "enjoy" the kind of segregated experience (in the classrooms, dorms, dining, etc.) some P5 schools can offer, and (implied) that the CC is merely table stakes, not a differentiator.

sweet music.....in 20 years, or so, Hopkins lacrosse lore will be similar to Dinty Moore's run at some Annapolis, great books college. Homewood field would make for some great condo's....

[MDlaxfan76]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

Pretty interesting how much blame he lays at Daniel's feet.

Quint's quoted in Preston's Sun article as saying that joining the Big 10 was a mistake...his argument is that competing for kids in that pool puts Hop at a disadvantage.

don't know if I agree with his thesis

[runrussellrun]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

Pretty interesting how much blame he lays at Daniel's feet.

Quint's quoted in Preston's Sun article as saying that joining the Big 10 was a mistake...his argument is that competing for kids in that pool puts Hop at a disadvantage.

don't know if I agree with his thesis

thoughts on what a Hopkins recruiter could be saying about the BiG issue:

__________________________

OR, the obvious retort would be: " Sure, recruit, you can sit in the stands, like any other student. Doubt you'll ever be considered anything other than some weird, butterfly netcatching, game, dressed like rapiers, (Fencers for the knuckledraggers ) OhioState? I mean, did you read HillBilly Elogy. Yeah. THEM. Not to knock the MSU vs Michigan hoops game, but, will you be as pumped to watch them play Iowa? Nebraska? Come on recruit, YOU are the big man on campus here at Hopkins. " To the author of this article: some of the funnest basketball games , especially for the crowds, are at the smaller venues. More intimate. Not everyone wants to sleep in a tent to watch a rat prance on his own named court.

For the "non" Hopkins fans, like moi, some find the joining the BIg ten "excuse" as to the woes...as just that. Excuse. More like it FORCED Hopkins to actually not load up their schedules with the UMBC/Marists of the lacrosse world. Marist DID beat Army, this year, didn't they? (Only, Hopkins made a living on playing the aforementioned teams. Or others. In 2012, I think the last time Navy beat Hopkins, the Blue Jays played, and beat , yes, the likes of UMBC (12-5), but this time the M was for Manhatten. The O stands for ZERO....as in zero goals. That the Jaspers (?) scored against the Hopkins defense. Sienna, Deleware Yes, THAT kind of feasting. Long History of it. Tradition.

Your Hopkins.

" Education. Tradition. Winning. Did we mention education. Employment connections. You HAVE heard of Mike Bloom?"

Blaming the loss of a student athlete, whose priorities don't go beyond, like most teens, two months, is comical. Insecure, almost. But, you already were losing recruits to the likes of Rutgers, Penn State. Your fans just didn't know it, because you didn't play them. I mean, the last time Hopkins played Penn State, I heard IKE was the starting goalie. His car broke down in Gettysburg, next to a golf course. The rest is history. YES, that IKE. And also, yes, THAT long ago. Just after the war....46 or 47. And, the last time Hopkins played Rutgers, prior to the move to B1G in 2015, William Jefferson Clinton had three more years left in the White House. So why, Blue Jay fans, the almost 20 year regular season game drought against the University of New Jersey? Oh, and by the way, since being "forced" to re-kindle the relationship with Rutgers, how have the results of those games been? Especially, early on, when Rutgers wasn't taking your recruits.

Spare us. Michigan hasn't come close to beating Hopkins. Neither has Ohio State......or Rutgers.

[Sagittarius A*]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

According to Quint, no name is off the table for the next HC, although he thinks some coaches are looking for leverage with their current schools. Maybe they go with a total change of pace, like Scott Marr, who promotes a way different culture with fast paced high powered offenses, as opposed to another hard nosed defensive minded HC. I have a feeling they may surprise all of us.

[steel_hop]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

Pretty interesting how much blame he lays at Daniel's feet.

I don't think anyone here would disagree. The rumors have been running around for as Quint says it "the last 5 years, decade." This has been a issue with most of the D3 programs - many of the long-term coaches (Kennedy, Nelson, etc) have retired over the last few years and the underlying theme was not getting administrative support.

Of course, there are some on here that think that doesn't matter but as Quint also states it isn't matter of being against the program but a matter of being for the program. With out the right support inside the administration, it makes difficult to bring in the right recruits. Now, saying that, we can also agree that DP made a number of mistakes in evaluating players.

[HopFan16]

Interesting starting at about 4:15. https://twitter.com/LaxSportsNet/status ... 4920310789

Though *far* from a complete answer.

According to Quint, no name is off the table for the next HC, although he thinks some coaches are looking for leverage with their current schools. Maybe they go with a total change of pace, like Scott Marr, who promotes a way different culture with fast paced high powered offenses, as opposed to another hard nosed defensive minded HC. I have a feeling they may surprise all of us.

Of the Hop alums in the coaching ranks, my hunch is that Marr is the least likely to take the job. Just too close to Petro. And not that Petro gets to have a say in this but I suspect that he'd prefer—and that the AD/admin would probably agree with this—that the coach be part of the "next generation," i.e. someone who played under him, not someone he played with.

The more I talk to people the more I am convinced that Nadelen just makes way too much sense for all parties involved. He is still my pick. If they go outside the family then I think Dan Chemotti is a serious candidate. He's done an incredible job building the Richmond program up in such a short time. If I'm Duke I'm not letting him take another job. Would be a huge mistake for them to pass on him in favor of the coach's son IMO.

[Homer]

This has been a issue with most of the D3 programs - many of the long-term coaches (Kennedy, Nelson, etc) have retired over the last few years and the underlying theme was not getting administrative support.

I'm sure you're not entirely wrong about this, but you keep bringing it up as if the past half-decade hadn't been the most successful period for the D3 sports in the school's history -- arguably the most successful by far. If there's something called "administrative support" that those programs stopped getting at the start of that stretch, then I can only conclude that this "administrative support" either doesn't matter or is actively harmful.

[jhu06]

-Quint broke open what ocanada and a few of you have said for awhile which is that the admin support isn't there anymore which is terrible. I'm not on the lacrosse advisory board (duh), but would be interesting to see what their thoughts/email chains look like right now.

questions I'd ask in the news conference
-For each of the President/Ad/coach in 2 words what is your goal every year? correct answer national championship and how should the new coach be judged after 4 years?
-to the coach, can HOB film again
-to the President/ad what does the program mean to you and the university
-to the coach, the program has lost in the ncaa tournament by an average of 5+goals over the last decade, how do you intend to reverse that
-to the coach, the current players were recruited for a different style of play what do you intend to do w/the kids that do not fit in your future plans
-to the ad, what specifically caused you to want a change
-the president/ad Petro was the all time winningest coach in program history, had deep ties hof player, was an icon in the game, brought deep playing/coaching/recruiting credentials, what makes you think that a coach w/out those credentials is a better fit to lead the program next.
-to the new coach, Petro was a hof player, won 2 titles as a coach, regularly had top 3/5 classes, why are you a better man for the job.
-to the ad, attendance is down precipitously and the student sections often are empty, what will you do to reenage a student body that is apathetic about the program and increasingly foreign.
-to the President/coach/ad has the relationship w/b1g been a negative or positive for the program+university
-to the new coach, were you asked in writing to commit to the universitys new policy of using personal pronouns in all communications.
-to the new coach, how do you sell hopkins to recruits when ivies have academics, b1g/acc/in state rivals have easier admissions-academics/d1 revenue sport name id lower costs.
-to the new coach, can the team have only one twitter handle
-to the president/ad, petros credentials were superior to the womens coach, why is she still employed.
-To the President/ad how has the level of institutional+administrative support changed for the program over your careers at hopkins? and what measures are you taking to make sure that the new coach has the best in d1 lacrosse?
-to the President/ad, Duke and Stanford have been publicly documented as making significant admissions exemptions for recruits in key sports, why isn't Hopkins one d1 sport allowed that and can you guarantee that no exemptions are made in any admissions decisions for other reasons such as inclusion and major donors
-to the President/ad/coach ivies have the academic catchet, acc/b1g schools have revenue sport resources, women, and name id, in state rivals have easier admissions standards, what are you doing to make Hopkins competitive for recruits with that?
-the coach, what assurances did you get about administrative support with recruiting and finances
-to the coach/ad what areas of the program are most in need of improvement to win a title in 2021?
-to the coach, what changes to the schedule do you intend to make
-to the coach, what are your first changes to the program and how will we see the differences on the field and off the field that you've brought.
-to Daniels/ad/coach, what is the longterm status of the program as d1/b1g and espn contract?
-to president/ad, why was petro let go in mid april when the season was canceled weeks ago and how does it serve the interests of the current players/future recruits/future coaching staff/school to wait this long.
-the coach do you plan to honor the nlis of the current recruits for the fall
-to the coach what is the status of o branski/dyer
-to the President, ad, do you feel the rising cost of Hopkins puts the school at a competitive disadvantage especially against maryland and what are you doing to attack the rising costs of a Hopkins education

I'm sure I missed a few.

[steel_hop]

This has been a issue with most of the D3 programs - many of the long-term coaches (Kennedy, Nelson, etc) have retired over the last few years and the underlying theme was not getting administrative support.

I'm sure you're not entirely wrong about this, but you keep bringing it up as if the past half-decade hadn't been the most successful period for the D3 sports in the school's history -- arguably the most successful by far. If there's something called "administrative support" that those programs stopped getting at the start of that stretch, then I can only conclude that this "administrative support" either doesn't matter or is actively harmful.

The Sears rankings (or whatever it is called right now) only really look at your record and doesn't really delineate between sports. In other words, a Hopkins Tennis team that does well is equal to a football team that does well for ranking purposes. Hopkins has done well at small niche sports - tennis, cross country, etc. but there has been some drop off in the sports that have the biggest fan bases and those fan bases care about - lax, football, basketball, etc. I have a number of swimmer friends and prior to Daniels Hopkins swimming was regularly placing 2nd at the NCAAs (no one is beating Kenyon) since he came. The best results are 4th.

It is also easier for those niche teams to be successful because you don't need 20-30 players to field a successful team. For Tennis, I think only 5 kids player so you might need 8 total players to make a team. Don't quote me on this. This allows for less impact to the sacred USWNR numbers that Daniels lives and dies for when you need to get a boarderline player in and its impact on the program.

Most of the coaches that retired were in their 60s so it wasn't like someone was 78 and retiring. Most likely, if the system was situated the same way, would have kept coaching. But, if the restrictions get too onerous, they retire. Babb is the longest tenured coach there and is probably 64 or 65. It will be interesting to see how much longer he coaches. Along with Tucker, they have to be the last of the old guard left.

[swf]

I'm sure I missed a few.

You missed one;

Would you rather graduate a future MD/scientist or a Real Estate/Bond Salesman?

[jhu06]

This has been a issue with most of the D3 programs - many of the long-term coaches (Kennedy, Nelson, etc) have retired over the last few years and the underlying theme was not getting administrative support.

I'm sure you're not entirely wrong about this, but you keep bringing it up as if the past half-decade hadn't been the most successful period for the D3 sports in the school's history -- arguably the most successful by far. If there's something called "administrative support" that those programs stopped getting at the start of that stretch, then I can only conclude that this "administrative support" either doesn't matter or is actively harmful.

The Sears rankings (or whatever it is called right now) only really look at your record and doesn't really delineate between sports. In other words, a Hopkins Tennis team that does well is equal to a football team that does well for ranking purposes. Hopkins has done well at small niche sports - tennis, cross country, etc. but there has been some drop off in the sports that have the biggest fan bases and those fan bases care about - lax, football, basketball, etc. I have a number of swimmer friends and prior to Daniels Hopkins swimming was regularly placing 2nd at the NCAAs (no one is beating Kenyon) since he came. The best results are 4th.

It is also easier for those niche teams to be successful because you don't need 20-30 players to field a successful team. For Tennis, I think only 5 kids player so you might need 8 total players to make a team. Don't quote me on this. This allows for less impact to the sacred USWNR numbers that Daniels lives and dies for when you need to get a boarderline player in and its impact on the program.

Most of the coaches that retired were in their 60s so it wasn't like someone was 78 and retiring. Most likely, if the system was situated the same way, would have kept coaching. But, if the restrictions get too onerous, they retire. Babb is the longest tenured coach there and is probably 64 or 65. It will be interesting to see how much longer he coaches. Along with Tucker, they have to be the last of the old guard left.

this is a bigger issue. I went to an alumni event and most people under 50 were 90 percent behind getting rid of alumni admissions preference. If you asked most alumni if they'd rather have a higher us news ranking or top rated athletic program it'd be 85-15 for the higher us news ranking. Mens lacrosse I get, but the rest, who cares.

[HopFan16]

The Sears rankings (or whatever it is called right now) only really look at your record and doesn't really delineate between sports. In other words, a Hopkins Tennis team that does well is equal to a football team that does well for ranking purposes. Hopkins has done well at small niche sports - tennis, cross country, etc. but there has been some drop off in the sports that have the biggest fan bases and those fan bases care about - lax, football, basketball, etc. I have a number of swimmer friends and prior to Daniels Hopkins swimming was regularly placing 2nd at the NCAAs (no one is beating Kenyon) since he came. The best results are 4th.

You're going to have to show your work on this alleged "drop off" in football and basketball. The last decade of results vs. the previous decade paints a very different picture.

Also, swimming is as niche as it gets. Seems weird to discount sports like tennis and cross country and in the same breath bemoan what's happened to the swim team.

to the President/ad, Duke and Stanford have been publicly documented as making significant admissions exemptions for recruits in key sports, why isn't Hopkins one d1 sport allowed that

If you don't think they dramatically relax admissions criteria for the lacrosse team, you're insane. You know as well as I do a lot of those kids wouldn't get into the school in a million years as normal applicants. The requirements are undoubtedly more stringent today than they were 15 years ago but that doesn't mean there are no allowances.

[Farfromgeneva]

Football has seen a slight decline with Margraff and the assistant who went to ithaca. I’d expect them to be more like a 6-8 win team going forward, especially as Muhlenburg has a ton of momentum (HC a former Hobart teammate of mine) and Susquehanna. Still good but they won’t rip through the CC like they had, which was a bottom half football conference mostly since Dickinson and Franklin and Marshall stopped being good.

Tennis needs more than 8 guys, closer to a dozen, often 1-2 doubles teams aren’t singles players plus 1-3 extra bodies. (Played that FR yr at Hobart only because they had 9 bodies and it wasn’t enough, played some doubles during the season but wasn’t even my primary Hs sport)

[jhu06]

quint is usually guarded with his comments about the program except when he's calling our attackmen slow and unathletic so when he points fingers at the academics I take note. Yes a laxer doesn't have the grades of the newsletter writer, but the newsletter writer also wasn't a hs all american who gets the school on national tv every week.

[kramerica.inc]

If you don't think they dramatically relax admissions criteria for the lacrosse team, you're insane. You know as well as I do a lot of those kids wouldn't get into the school in a million years as normal applicants. The requirements are undoubtedly more stringent today than they were 15 years ago but that doesn't mean there are no allowances.

I'm positive Hopkins relaxed admissions requirements for lacrosse players. I can confirm for up until 3 years ago. Can't speak for more recent than that.

Most D3 schools, (including Hopkins and the other Centennial schools) have admission allowances for athletes. "slots" have mostly gone away, but lessened requirements are still a thing. Additionally, D3 doesn't give "athletic" scholarships, but often significantly "reward" kids who are- well-rounded, good students, looking at lesser-enrolled majors, AND just happen to be good athletes too...with "grants."