Regulation - Too Much or Too Little?

[seacoaster]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

[RedFromMI]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

[cradleandshoot]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

[PizzaSnake]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

“I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana?”

Because humans suck. Most are inherently selfish.

All systems need to acknowledge that truth and provide mechanisms to temper basic human weaknesses. Speaking of wisdom one should acquire at some point...

[cradleandshoot]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

“I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana?”

Because humans suck. Most are inherently selfish.

All systems need to acknowledge that truth and provide mechanisms to temper basic human weaknesses. Speaking of wisdom one should acquire at some point...

"Because humans suck."

That may be the most brilliant thing you have said on this forum. I agree 100%.

[a fan]

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism.

Because what happened there has NOTHING to do with socialism. That's a kleptocracy.

Want socialism? Look to any EU country. They're all doing fine. They all have varying degrees of socialism.....and all have more socialism than the US.


Or, if you prefer, look to America, where we have plenty of examples of pure socialism. The University of Virginia-----pure socialism-----is doing just fine. So fine, in fact, they should put a serious beatdown on privately owned and operated Syracuse University next week!

[Farfromgeneva]

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism.

Because what happened there has NOTHING to do with socialism. That's a kleptocracy.

Want socialism? Look to any EU country. They're all doing fine. They all have varying degrees of socialism.....and all have more socialism than the US.


Or, if you prefer, look to America, where we have plenty of examples of pure socialism. The University of Virginia-----pure socialism-----is doing just fine. So fine, in fact, they should put a serious beatdown on privately owned and operated Syracuse University next week!

Careful there, I agree, but it puts a huge dent in this “free market capitalism failed” argument for exactly the same point (that George Will has been making for 20+ yrs). In fact kleptocracy might be extreme but isn’t outrageous as a explanation for why our version of capitalism has been failing as well....

[a fan]

Careful there, I agree, but it puts a huge dent in this “free market capitalism failed” argument for exactly the same point (that George Will has been making for 20+ yrs).

Yes, it does, doesn't it?

It's why I'm a moderate. A little of capitalism. A little of socialism, and we'll be fine.

My issue, as I'm sure you've figure out, is that modern Republicans are dishonest brokers. They're selling their voters a line of crap.


And that line of crap is: trickle down works, and if we get the .gov out of the way? Oh, your GED will lead to six figure jobs with fat pensions and full health care.

Nope.

[Farfromgeneva]

Careful there, I agree, but it puts a huge dent in this “free market capitalism failed” argument for exactly the same point (that George Will has been making for 20+ yrs).

Yes, it does, doesn't it?

It's why I'm a moderate. A little of capitalism. A little of socialism, and we'll be fine.

My issue, as I'm sure you've figure out, is that modern Republicans are dishonest brokers. They're selling their voters a line of dump.


And that line of dump is: trickle down works, and if we get the .gov out of the way? Oh, your GED will lead to six figure jobs with fat pensions and full health care.

Nope.

For modern republicans sure. Part of it, I suspect is that things worked out for the prior generation (say up to the 90s or early 2000s) when executing these plans so they got away with bastardizing the "purity" of some of these fiscal and regulatory moves and subsequently made the mistake of thinking success meant they could get away with porking and side deal cutting through the capitalist implementation and over time its become this.

But I strongly feel it's important for someone to rep that side and it won't come from the democrats. Even the more moderate corporate ones will still sling arrows publicly even if they are looking for the "CEO of Pfizer who's playing hackey sack with his checkbook at the DC fundraiser".

The way I see it, unfortunately, is that this disparity is widening and the country is increasingly populist, which I tend to find at least on a larger scale to be emotionally driven and prone to making potentially large errors on long term matters. Not saying all populists are raging lunatics, but they tend to throw out the cost-benefit analysis altogether in their often myopic focus on outcome over process.

[PizzaSnake]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

“I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana?”

Because humans suck. Most are inherently selfish.

All systems need to acknowledge that truth and provide mechanisms to temper basic human weaknesses. Speaking of wisdom one should acquire at some point...

"Because humans suck."

That may be the most brilliant thing you have said on this forum. I agree 100%.

Case in point:

"In the US, 85% of meat production is controlled by four companies, one of which is Tyson, heavily criticised recently after it emerged that management at one facility had been taking bets to see how many workers would contract Covid-19. “That betting pool might be the most disgusting thing ever created in a Tyson factory which is saying something given that Tyson also created ranch flavour chicken chips,” Oliver said."

[Typical Lax Dad]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

“I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana?”

Because humans suck. Most are inherently selfish.

All systems need to acknowledge that truth and provide mechanisms to temper basic human weaknesses. Speaking of wisdom one should acquire at some point...

"Because humans suck."

That may be the most brilliant thing you have said on this forum. I agree 100%.

Case in point:

"In the US, 85% of meat production is controlled by four companies, one of which is Tyson, heavily criticised recently after it emerged that management at one facility had been taking bets to see how many workers would contract Covid-19. “That betting pool might be the most disgusting thing ever created in a Tyson factory which is saying something given that Tyson also created ranch flavour chicken chips,” Oliver said."

[Brooklyn]

Forum right wing delusionals still crying about "socialism" but silent about corporate welfare queens in the military industrial complex.

[Farfromgeneva]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

“I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana?”

Because humans suck. Most are inherently selfish.

All systems need to acknowledge that truth and provide mechanisms to temper basic human weaknesses. Speaking of wisdom one should acquire at some point...

"Because humans suck."

That may be the most brilliant thing you have said on this forum. I agree 100%.

Case in point:

"In the US, 85% of meat production is controlled by four companies, one of which is Tyson, heavily criticised recently after it emerged that management at one facility had been taking bets to see how many workers would contract Covid-19. “That betting pool might be the most disgusting thing ever created in a Tyson factory which is saying something given that Tyson also created ranch flavour chicken chips,” Oliver said."

Salisbury MD relies on poultry production as a top employer in that area (per a local bank exec when getting to know them) so I’m guessing you’re a LI or Upstate NY lacrosse guy.

[Farfromgeneva]

Forum right wing delusionals still crying about "socialism" but silent about corporate welfare queens in the military industrial complex.

When you go to a concert, James Taylor or Kenny G or Tiny Tim - whoever you are into, do you want to hear the tracks off the new album of the greatest hits?

Not saying it’s right or cool, but you can understand why folks will play the string out on something they perceive to be a winner.

[MDlaxfan76]

Kind of a screed, but pretty interesting:

https://www.gregpalast.com/texas-gets-l ... he-lights/

But still related to the original problem foreseen by Adam Smith when he wrote about capitalism - completely unfettered/unregulated practices will lead to the wrong thing being the goal - profit over functionality to society.

That is why Enron was such a Charlie Foxtrot. You make the ONLY incentive for a company to make money, you distort the practices of business to do just that.

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism. We are all just in deep doo doo because nothing is ever going to make the huddled masses happy. We need to try Bernie's Americanized version of socialism light. What the hell, it is only taxpayer money being flushed down the toilet.

“I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana?”

Because humans suck. Most are inherently selfish.

All systems need to acknowledge that truth and provide mechanisms to temper basic human weaknesses. Speaking of wisdom one should acquire at some point...

"Because humans suck."

That may be the most brilliant thing you have said on this forum. I agree 100%.

Case in point:

"In the US, 85% of meat production is controlled by four companies, one of which is Tyson, heavily criticised recently after it emerged that management at one facility had been taking bets to see how many workers would contract Covid-19. “That betting pool might be the most disgusting thing ever created in a Tyson factory which is saying something given that Tyson also created ranch flavour chicken chips,” Oliver said."

Salisbury MD relies on poultry production as a top employer in that area (per a local bank exec when getting to know them) so I’m guessing you’re a LI or Upstate NY lacrosse guy.

Perdue country.

[Brooklyn]

Forum right wing delusionals still crying about "socialism" but silent about corporate welfare queens in the military industrial complex.

When you go to a concert, James Taylor or Kenny G or Tiny Tim - whoever you are into, do you want to hear the tracks off the new album of the greatest hits?

Not saying it’s right or cool, but you can understand why folks will play the string out on something they perceive to be a winner.

Bottom line is that right wing delusionals are full of:




https://dazedimg-dazedgroup.netdna-ssl. ... 120288.jpg

[DocBarrister]

Nobody is ever fully prepared for natural disaster. When hurricanes, blizzards or tsunamis strike they always reveal weaknesses — failure to plan, failure to invest in precautions.

The disaster in Texas, however, was different. The collapse of the Texas power grid didn’t just reveal a few shortcomings. It showed that the entire philosophy behind the state’s energy policy is wrong. And it also showed that the state is run by people who will resort to blatant lies rather than admit their mistakes.

... So will the Republicans who hold all of Texas’ statewide offices learn from this debacle, and rethink their whole approach to energy policy? Of course not. Their immediate reaction was to falsely blame the crisis on wind power, and lash out at advocates of a Green New Deal — even though something like a Green New Deal, that is, public investment in energy infrastructure, is exactly what Texas needs.

And one thing we’ve definitely learned over the past few months is that once politicians commit themselves to a Big Lie, whether it involves epidemiology, economics or election results, there’s no turning back.

But while the right-wing political-media complex can’t and won’t learn anything from the Texas power debacle, the rest of us can. We’ve just been offered a clear view of the dark (and cold) side of free-market fundamentalism. And that’s a lesson we shouldn’t forget.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opin ... e=Homepage

Dozens of Texans died because of garbage conservative ideology and lying, dirtball Republican leaders in Texas.

DocBarrister

[cradleandshoot]

I wonder why Venezuela has been such an abysmal failure at becoming a socialist Nirvana? Unfettered capitalism sucks and so does unfettered socialism.

Because what happened there has NOTHING to do with socialism. That's a kleptocracy.

Want socialism? Look to any EU country. They're all doing fine. They all have varying degrees of socialism.....and all have more socialism than the US.


Or, if you prefer, look to America, where we have plenty of examples of pure socialism. The University of Virginia-----pure socialism-----is doing just fine. So fine, in fact, they should put a serious beatdown on privately owned and operated Syracuse University next week!

You and I have danced this dance before. What you call pure socialism I call federal spending. Once Uncle Sam takes our tax dollars from us they spend it however they see fit. IMO the UV has enough Alum out there that they can create their own endowment for their university. The problem is a Fan, we have no control over our tax dollars once they are in the possession of the government. By your definition every single penny our government spends is pure socialism. It is a unique attempt to change the verbiage but it does not really matter what you choose to call it. The money is spent and will never be seen again. I will still call it federal spending and you will continue to call it pure socialism. Does it really matter? At the end of the day the money is gone. That defense budget of ours is 700 plus billion of pure socialist spending. The billions we spent on welfare and social services is pure socialism. The federal money we spend on infrastructure is pure socialism. Every dime our government begs, borrows or steals is all simply used to pay for all that socialism we all want and love. How do you think we ran up a 30 trillion dollar debt? That didn't happen by being fiscally responsible did it? Every politician wants what they want and they want it right now.

[PizzaSnake]

Or just poor, coupled with inadequate enforcement?

Ours is a system of voluntary compliance. When people stop cooperating due to clear evidence of enforcement, all bets are off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/nyre ... Position=2

[a fan]

You and I have danced this dance before. What you call pure socialism I call federal spending. Once Uncle Sam takes our tax dollars from us they spend it however they see fit. IMO the UV has enough Alum out there that they can create their own endowment for their university.

Yeah---but they didn't do that.

If UVa---where the government owns and operates the entity in question isn't socialism?

Then that would mean that you could open up a Federal or State owned and operated shoe factory, and that wouldn't be socialism, either.


Socialism is simply where the government owns and operates the entity in question.

Can America function without Government owned and operated schools? Can we have only private toll roads? Or privately owned parks?

Of course. But we elected representatives who CHOSE to install socialist institutions.