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Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:22 pm
by Farfromgeneva
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:00 pm
OSU is a different team without Terefenko and LeClaire. No replacing those two, especially the former. Rumors of some internal strife there as well perhaps evidenced by lots of underclassmen hitting the portal. Myers is off to a good recruiting start to the '23 class, however, which has somewhat surprised me. Maybe such rumors are overblown.
In any case, I lean toward preferring PSU in 2021, but it's close. I like to think Hopkins showed something at the end of last season to give them up a leg up on the non-Maryland B1G teams but the truth is behind the Terps it's something of a jumble.
Jason Knox basically stopped going to school last year but if he’s focused and dedicated he can be every bit of LeClaire which I’m sure you will scoff at but I stand behind. Holden had a knee injury most of the season but once MD started working him in end of season he was starting to get there so using his season should consider that fact as well as the lack of practice time. I think the bigger deal is their goalie wasn’t great and Caton Johnson could be a game changer for them. They had a problem giving up goals. The team goes as he goes IMO
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 pm
by HopFan16
Johnson should upgrade their situation but remember he was not good at all in 2020 and then got benched for the freshman in 2021. It's been awhile since his impressive 2019 campaign. I feel like he'll be around ~50%—which again should be an improvement—but not necessarily a huge one IMO.
The D had some issues and won't be helped by losing Terefenko, Henrick, and Wenz. I don't know much about Gallagher or the transfer from Lafayette but supposedly they're good.
Knox is great (when available), no pushback from me on that, but he's not as dynamic a scoring threat as LeClaire. And he hasn't proven it against an elite schedule. Quite literally 30% (19/62) of his career goals have come against Siena. He hasn't fared as well in games against teams like Cornell and Syracuse. His shooting % has also declined throughout his career which is a bit worrisome but perhaps can be explained by the aforementioned lack of focus or whatever was going on with him personally last year. Good player who will help, but not a 1-for-1 replacement for LeClaire. He also plays on the same side as Jackson Reid so they still need someone else to man the righty spot.
Terefenko on the other hand was a totally unique player who excelled in three phases of the game. He's one of the biggest losses in the country for any team this year next to Bernhardt and Ierlan (not counting Teat). Would argue a bigger loss than O'Keefe, who was already not himself without Ament.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:43 pm
by Farfromgeneva
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 pm
Johnson should upgrade their situation but remember he was not good at all in 2020 and then got benched for the freshman in 2021. It's been awhile since his impressive 2019 campaign. I feel like he'll be around ~50%—which again should be an improvement—but not necessarily a huge one IMO.
The D had some issues and won't be helped by losing Terefenko, Henrick, and Wenz. I don't know much about Gallagher or the transfer from Lafayette but supposedly they're good.
Knox is great (when available), no pushback from me on that, but he's not as dynamic a scoring threat as LeClaire. And he hasn't proven it against an elite schedule. Quite literally 30% (19/62) of his career goals have come against Siena. He hasn't fared as well in games against teams like Cornell and Syracuse. His shooting % has also declined throughout his career which is a bit worrisome but perhaps can be explained by the aforementioned lack of focus or whatever was going on with him personally last year. Good player who will help, but not a 1-for-1 replacement for LeClaire. He also plays on the same side as Jackson Reid so they still need someone else to man the righty spot.
Terefenko on the other hand was a totally unique player who excelled in three phases of the game. He's one of the biggest losses in the country for any team this year next to Bernhardt and Ierlan (not counting Teat). Would argue a bigger loss than O'Keefe, who was already not himself without Ament.
Honestly either knox is a non factor or he’ll look more like FR knox. It’s going to be pretty binary. And 19 & 20 he had a lot of shooters like Holden and Aslanian around him (the latter has done pretty well professionally since leaving Geneva). I’m assuming he will be reinvigorated but you won’t see an in between I suspect. Knox has done well in Junior Bs as a young teenager I thought he was going to drop out last spring and just go pro in Box and was surprised when he transferred at all.
But one person is saying “they lose everyone” and that ignores that they are looking to fill those. It’s no more speculative than a lot of the kids Rutgers has brought in to replace much bigger losses. Cant say the same about PSU that was my larger point. Yes big name schools get a bump and start from an easier position where perception is concerned but comparing those two situations and saying they’re the same isn’t exactly doing analysis that this person was claiming.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:06 pm
by 10stone5
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:25 pm
10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 am
Drexel is too high, there are better CAA teams this season,
that ranking is based almost solely on their end of year stretch
this season past.
Do agree that all those Pennsylvania based schools are top
25-ish, add of course Lehigh.
Then also you have St. Joe’s as a top 30 type squad.
3 Pennsylvania schools were in the 2019 tournament,
and two got to the quarterfinals,
I don’t see anything approaching that for PA schools
this season.
You’ve been hanging out with Lou Holtz and Nick Saban haven’t you?
Hah !
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:21 pm
by oldbartman
Knox was named an All Star in this years OJLL Jr. A shortened season. If I'm not mistaken, IL's Stamper has him as a potential top 10 pick in the 2022 NLL draft. So he may be a 1 and done at OSU. When he is on, he's as good a lefty shooter as there is in college lacrosse. I hope he finds success and has a great season in '22 at OSU.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:42 pm
by Farfromgeneva
oldbartman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:21 pm
Knox was named an All Star in this years OJLL Jr. A shortened season. If I'm not mistaken, IL's Stamper has him as a potential top 10 pick in the 2022 NLL draft. So he may be a 1 and done at OSU. When he is on, he's as good a lefty shooter as there is in college lacrosse. I hope he finds success and has a great season in '22 at OSU.
Likewise hate to see him go but only wish him the best. May be the only time I ever root for OSU in anything other than complete and absolute implosion.
Alex Love almost went there and had a transfer from us who did pretty well back in the late 2000s named Jeff Ryan. Lot of upstate and WNY kids like OSU.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:57 am
by Henpecked
I'm glad I didn't trash this list yesterday when Delaware wasn't listed in the 16-25th ranked teams.
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... sion-i-men
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:26 am
by sc lax
Really thought last year was gonna be the year for Delaware to win the CAA. This year might be tougher.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:38 am
by Henpecked
sc lax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:26 am
Really thought last year was gonna be the year for Delaware to win the CAA. This year might be tougher.
You might be right. The Hens will have to play better this coming year. Lots of strength on defense and at attack. I think Drexel is going to be very good too even with the loss of Reid Bowering. Their defense is much improved. I think Grippo might be the best SSDM in the conference.
I also think that UMass with Connelly back at attack will be improved. They lose Jeff Trainor but not much else. You never know how it's going to shake out. It'll be fun to watch.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:45 am
by sc lax
Henpecked wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:38 am
sc lax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:26 am
Really thought last year was gonna be the year for Delaware to win the CAA. This year might be tougher.
You might be right. The Hens will have to play better this coming year. Lots of strength on defense and at attack. I think Drexel is going to be very good too even with the loss of Reid Bowering. Their defense is much improved. I think Grippo might be the best SSDM in the conference.
I also think that UMass with Connelly back at attack will be improved. They lose Jeff Trainor but not much else. You never know how it's going to shake out. It'll be fun to watch.
Definitely will be interesting. No one is really talking about Towson, which Nadelen and staff probably prefer, but they return their whole defense and Brennan who could be an All-American this year. The offense can only get better as well.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:48 am
by courtdog
10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 am
Drexel is too high, there are better CAA teams this season,
that ranking is based almost solely on their end of year stretch
this season past.
Do agree that all those Pennsylvania based schools are top
25-ish, add of course Lehigh.
Then also you have St. Joe’s as a top 30 type squad.
3 Pennsylvania schools were in the 2019 tournament,
and two got to the quarterfinals,
I don’t see anything approaching that for PA schools
this season.
10stone, who do you think in the CAA is better than Drexel? Just wondering in good conversation.
Delaware loses Kitchen who Robinson and Kurtz ultimately relied heavily on. Umass is very limited offensively loses Trainor. Towson brings in a few transfers but consistently showed losing to the top of the conference last year not making it to the CAA tournament / who knows if any of those transfers pan out. Hofstra loses Tierney and Fairfield loses Beckwith... Struggle to find the reasoning here. They bring everyone back and beat Delaware last year without Bowering.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:02 am
by Farfromgeneva
courtdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:48 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 am
Drexel is too high, there are better CAA teams this season,
that ranking is based almost solely on their end of year stretch
this season past.
Do agree that all those Pennsylvania based schools are top
25-ish, add of course Lehigh.
Then also you have St. Joe’s as a top 30 type squad.
3 Pennsylvania schools were in the 2019 tournament,
and two got to the quarterfinals,
I don’t see anything approaching that for PA schools
this season.
10stone, who do you think in the CAA is better than Drexel? Just wondering in good conversation.
Delaware loses Kitchen who Robinson and Kurtz ultimately relied heavily on. Umass is very limited offensively loses Trainor. Towson brings in a few transfers but consistently showed losing to the top of the conference last year not making it to the CAA tournament / who knows if any of those transfers pan out. Hofstra loses Tierney and Fairfield loses Beckwith... Struggle to find the reasoning here. They bring everyone back and beat Delaware last year without Bowering.
Let me help him: everyone! I mean they should just leave the starters home for rest for games at Drexel and not practice the week before playing Drexel. No need to even focus on them.
(Hopefully folks understand the tongue in cheek sandbagging..)
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:11 am
by 10stone5
sc lax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:26 am
Really thought last year was gonna be the year for Delaware to win the CAA. This year might be tougher.
It was definite the Hens year last season.
Tierney though had one last play for his team, though I
still don’t know what it was, and he was able to pull
it off.
Should have been Hens - Drexel in the finals.
I think you’re seeing the general thinking here,
Hens are team to beat in CAA.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:34 am
by 10stone5
courtdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:48 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 am
Drexel is too high, there are better CAA teams this season,
that ranking is based almost solely on their end of year stretch
this season past.
Do agree that all those Pennsylvania based schools are top
25-ish, add of course Lehigh.
Then also you have St. Joe’s as a top 30 type squad.
3 Pennsylvania schools were in the 2019 tournament,
and two got to the quarterfinals,
I don’t see anything approaching that for PA schools
this season.
10stone, who do you think in the CAA is better than Drexel? Just wondering in good conversation.
Delaware loses Kitchen who Robinson and Kurtz ultimately relied heavily on. Umass is very limited offensively loses Trainor. Towson brings in a few transfers but consistently showed losing to the top of the conference last year not making it to the CAA tournament / who knows if any of those transfers pan out. Hofstra loses Tierney and Fairfield loses Beckwith... Struggle to find the reasoning here. They bring everyone back and beat Delaware last year without Bowering.
Hens - Tigers,
for my money.
Drexel is one year early, they have a top 20 class coming in
next year.
Dutch are going to be better than people think, more team
ball with Tierney graduated.
I could even go Dutch over UMass.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:56 pm
by Henpecked
courtdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:48 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 am
Drexel is too high, there are better CAA teams this season,
that ranking is based almost solely on their end of year stretch
this season past.
Do agree that all those Pennsylvania based schools are top
25-ish, add of course Lehigh.
Then also you have St. Joe’s as a top 30 type squad.
3 Pennsylvania schools were in the 2019 tournament,
and two got to the quarterfinals,
I don’t see anything approaching that for PA schools
this season.
10stone, who do you think in the CAA is better than Drexel? Just wondering in good conversation.
Delaware loses Kitchen who Robinson and Kurtz ultimately relied heavily on. Umass is very limited offensively loses Trainor. Towson brings in a few transfers but consistently showed losing to the top of the conference last year not making it to the CAA tournament / who knows if any of those transfers pan out. Hofstra loses Tierney and Fairfield loses Beckwith... Struggle to find the reasoning here. They bring everyone back and beat Delaware last year without Bowering.
Not to get nit-picky, but Bowering did play in the game in Newark where the Dragons beat Delaware. He had 0 goals on 5 shots. Bowering also played in the game that Drexel lost to the Hens 19-12.
I think Delaware and Drexel will be pretty close this year. Both of these teams have a pretty good balance between offense and defense.
Trainor is gone from UMass but their QB on offense, Chris Connnelly, who missed all of last year should be back. Connelly could be the best attackman in the conference. He is certainly the guy who gets everyone involved in the offense. They will miss offensive guru Doc Schneider as well.
Hofstra loses five of its best players. Tierney, Altmann, Concannon and Lynskey graduated. And SSDM Pryor transferred to UNC. They do bring back a lot of athletes on offense and the best FOGO in the conference.
I believe that Towson has to be better this coming year. They have had two pretty horrendous consecutive seasons and seemed to be running on fumes by year's end. They has a chance to get into the CAAs but lost a critical home game to Delaware 16-8 and it wasn't even that close. They were offensively challenged the entire season. Maybe transfers will make a difference? They have a FOGO coming in too.
Fairfield, I have no idea. They didn't look good defensively last year and a lot of those guys on D graduated. That can't be good. They also lost their best offensive player - Dylan Beckwith.
The CAA is always a bit of a mystery. We will see what happens. Should be fun.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:15 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Henpecked wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:56 pm
courtdog wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:48 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 am
Drexel is too high, there are better CAA teams this season,
that ranking is based almost solely on their end of year stretch
this season past.
Do agree that all those Pennsylvania based schools are top
25-ish, add of course Lehigh.
Then also you have St. Joe’s as a top 30 type squad.
3 Pennsylvania schools were in the 2019 tournament,
and two got to the quarterfinals,
I don’t see anything approaching that for PA schools
this season.
10stone, who do you think in the CAA is better than Drexel? Just wondering in good conversation.
Delaware loses Kitchen who Robinson and Kurtz ultimately relied heavily on. Umass is very limited offensively loses Trainor. Towson brings in a few transfers but consistently showed losing to the top of the conference last year not making it to the CAA tournament / who knows if any of those transfers pan out. Hofstra loses Tierney and Fairfield loses Beckwith... Struggle to find the reasoning here. They bring everyone back and beat Delaware last year without Bowering.
Not to get nit-picky, but Bowering did play in the game in Newark where the Dragons beat Delaware. He had 0 goals on 5 shots. Bowering also played in the game that Drexel lost to the Hens 19-12.
I think Delaware and Drexel will be pretty close this year. Both of these teams have a pretty good balance between offense and defense.
Trainor is gone from UMass but their QB on offense, Chris Connnelly, who missed all of last year should be back. Connelly could be the best attackman in the conference. He is certainly the guy who gets everyone involved in the offense. They will miss offensive guru Doc Schneider as well.
Hofstra loses five of its best players. Tierney, Altmann, Concannon and Lynskey graduated. And SSDM Pryor transferred to UNC. They do bring back a lot of athletes on offense and the best FOGO in the conference.
I believe that Towson has to be better this coming year. They have had two pretty horrendous consecutive seasons and seemed to be running on fumes by year's end. They has a chance to get into the CAAs but lost a critical home game to Delaware 16-8 and it wasn't even that close. They were offensively challenged the entire season. Maybe transfers will make a difference? They have a FOGO coming in too.
Fairfield, I have no idea. They didn't look good defensively last year and a lot of those guys on D graduated. That can't be good. They also lost their best offensive player - Dylan Beckwith.
The CAA is always a bit of a mystery. We will see what happens. Should be fun.
IMO Del has the best attackman and (offensive/two way) midfielder in the conference. As good as Connelly is I like Sean Robinson more personally.
Schneider is an offensive guru because he was one of maybe three top 3 goalies in that decade. He stopped everything in 06 and totally ruined a pretty good Hofstra teams season allowing Dano to leave for Duke.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:24 pm
by 10stone5
Robinson is definitely odds on favorite for CAA PoY.
Robinson or Owen Grant.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm
by calourie
Positions 10-1 still remaining in Patrick Steven's rollout of his "way too early" rankings at USLaxmagazine.
Just to stir up the pot I'll take a stab at what the next two days will reveal.
Thursday's positions 10-6 will include Rutgers at 10, Denver at 9, Yale at 8, Georgetown at 7, and Loyola at 6
Friday will have Notre Dame at 5, Duke at 4, Maryland at 3, UNC at 2, and UVA at 1
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:54 pm
by Comeonman
I’ll go for, in descending order, Denver, Yale, Rutgers, Loyola, Georgetown, UNC, ND, Duke, Maryland, UVA.
Re: Way too early rankings
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:30 pm
by lorin
calourie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm
Positions 10-1 still remaining in Patrick Steven's rollout of his "way too early" rankings at USLaxmagazine.
Just to stir up the pot I'll take a stab at what the next two days will reveal.
Thursday's positions 10-6 will include Rutgers at 10, Denver at 9, Yale at 8, Georgetown at 7, and Loyola at 6
Friday will have Notre Dame at 5, Duke at 4, Maryland at 3, UNC at 2, and UVA at 1
I am a little confused about Denver being so high