Same Party, Different House
https://fanlax.com/forum/
Really? How about this one?old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:38 pm8 year old story, resurrected now to rationalize deserting all our ASF allies who are not child-molesters, as the Taliban seize their 12 year old child brides.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:22 pm If this is the reality of the situation, these clowns are lucky the Marines didn't cap them. F 'em. I can't abide child-molesters.
Could you point me to the business plan that was created to generate wealth from the war? I can get on board with bad decision making or even an idea of revenge or bloodlust and have read books such as the Iron Triangle along with experiences with shops like Carlyle but this implies prior intent and for all their flaws and poor decisions I still don’t see the premeditated plot to further enrich wealthy through war.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:57 amDMac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:28 am Point fingers and lay blame, analyze and dissect, ultimately what you end up with is yet another group of GIs dead and buried, and countless others maimed struggling with day to day life. You knew this was going to happen when you went in but you went in anyway. We don't learn from our mistakes, I've seen this movie before and it had the same ending. Only question that remains is where we'll send our young GIs to die in vain next. So very sad.
The problem is that this was not a "mistake". It was all done on purpose just like Vietnam and Iraq. Wars created for one purpose only: to enrich the wealthy. This is precisely what was accomplished in all three wars. Trillions in dollars lost, the nation's debt increased, thousands dead, hundreds of thousands wounded, vast resources wasted, wealthy elites laughing all the way to the bank, and everybody blaming the Democrats for the problems created by Republicans.
Within the next 2 years there will be another war with the same scenario repeated as above. Again, it will not be a "mistake". It will be done on purpose because people stupidly refuse that all this is the truth.
I’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:54 amWe could have handled the withdrawal better. I would have liked to think that we had more insight regarding how quickly the government would give up the ghost. Hard to say with the drawdown, how intelligence was impacted. Could have been handled differently. Hopefully we find out if the administration was given fair warning but ignored it.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:48 amGood lord, time to resurrect Flynn???old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:00 amSee, Flynn was right about the myopic IC.dislaxxic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:48 am THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE IN AFGHANISTAN
Trump's Deep State poisoned the well?
He would not have slept while the Taliban stole a march on us.
He understood the Taliban & their appeal to the potential jihadists.
The Taliban "won" the country when Trump announced a complete withdrawal, over the objection of allies and the local, corrupt puppet government, cutting out the Afghan military. Done deal from there as the military negotiated their own 'step aside'.
Whether this would have happened in May (Trump's deadline) or in August, it was going to happen. And no amount of insight was going to change that reality.
The only question is why we didn't execute on the exit better, getting more friendlies out, more control over important equipment, etc. But even there, we really don't know (yet -may never really know) where that execution failed, or whether doing more sooner would have just accelerated the Taliban roll through the country earlier as well.
We also don't know that we could have held on with a light footprint, low casualty rate, etc had Biden reversed the Trump commitment. That, too, might have backfired.
But from a domestic political perspective, no question in my mind that Biden will take a hit for a while. Longer term history view may reveal that he made the best of a terrible situation, but we won't have consensus on that perspective for a bit.
Yep. I am hoping for a “peace dividend”Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:15 pmI’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:54 amWe could have handled the withdrawal better. I would have liked to think that we had more insight regarding how quickly the government would give up the ghost. Hard to say with the drawdown, how intelligence was impacted. Could have been handled differently. Hopefully we find out if the administration was given fair warning but ignored it.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:48 amGood lord, time to resurrect Flynn???old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:00 amSee, Flynn was right about the myopic IC.dislaxxic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:48 am THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE IN AFGHANISTAN
Trump's Deep State poisoned the well?
He would not have slept while the Taliban stole a march on us.
He understood the Taliban & their appeal to the potential jihadists.
The Taliban "won" the country when Trump announced a complete withdrawal, over the objection of allies and the local, corrupt puppet government, cutting out the Afghan military. Done deal from there as the military negotiated their own 'step aside'.
Whether this would have happened in May (Trump's deadline) or in August, it was going to happen. And no amount of insight was going to change that reality.
The only question is why we didn't execute on the exit better, getting more friendlies out, more control over important equipment, etc. But even there, we really don't know (yet -may never really know) where that execution failed, or whether doing more sooner would have just accelerated the Taliban roll through the country earlier as well.
We also don't know that we could have held on with a light footprint, low casualty rate, etc had Biden reversed the Trump commitment. That, too, might have backfired.
But from a domestic political perspective, no question in my mind that Biden will take a hit for a while. Longer term history view may reveal that he made the best of a terrible situation, but we won't have consensus on that perspective for a bit.
I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.
Just one less thing to dedicate Human Resources and energy towards let alone dollars and lives. We got enough on our plate at the moment.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:18 pmYep. I am hoping for a “peace dividend”Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:15 pmI’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:54 amWe could have handled the withdrawal better. I would have liked to think that we had more insight regarding how quickly the government would give up the ghost. Hard to say with the drawdown, how intelligence was impacted. Could have been handled differently. Hopefully we find out if the administration was given fair warning but ignored it.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:48 amGood lord, time to resurrect Flynn???old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:00 amSee, Flynn was right about the myopic IC.dislaxxic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:48 am THERE MAY WELL HAVE BEEN AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE IN AFGHANISTAN
Trump's Deep State poisoned the well?
He would not have slept while the Taliban stole a march on us.
He understood the Taliban & their appeal to the potential jihadists.
The Taliban "won" the country when Trump announced a complete withdrawal, over the objection of allies and the local, corrupt puppet government, cutting out the Afghan military. Done deal from there as the military negotiated their own 'step aside'.
Whether this would have happened in May (Trump's deadline) or in August, it was going to happen. And no amount of insight was going to change that reality.
The only question is why we didn't execute on the exit better, getting more friendlies out, more control over important equipment, etc. But even there, we really don't know (yet -may never really know) where that execution failed, or whether doing more sooner would have just accelerated the Taliban roll through the country earlier as well.
We also don't know that we could have held on with a light footprint, low casualty rate, etc had Biden reversed the Trump commitment. That, too, might have backfired.
But from a domestic political perspective, no question in my mind that Biden will take a hit for a while. Longer term history view may reveal that he made the best of a terrible situation, but we won't have consensus on that perspective for a bit.
I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.
Yep. A unified, democratic nation was never a realistic aspiration. The best we could hope for was several autonomous regions in a very loose republic, that allowed for travel, trade, & national borders. The Taliban, & their version of Sharia law, could have held sway in the Pashtun regions. Civil society could evolve in Kabul & other cities, as it has.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:15 pm I’m fairness he was VP for 8 yrs where Barry had promised exit and it didn’t happen. Then it was handled poorly by the guy in between. Could it simple be a hotel California type situation from the moment we went in?
I feel terrible for the people there but at this point hard to disagree with Docs reductive argument that they have proven over four decades a lack of interest in self governing/self determination. Time to just move on.
I gave you one there Iron Triangle. I read those and work with the people accused without actual information. Some are not the best people, some are better than both of us combined but li will never seemingly believe that. Those books are always backwards looking. I’m looking for the plans in advance. It’s easy to demonize an entire cohort just not very accurate like shooting with a sawed off shotgun.
Not to be confused with complete xenophobic retrenchment of course. I often liked George Wills approach to international relations and situations.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:56 pm 'The hawks still circle and screech. The voices from the past 20 years who prodded us forward into battle return to the evening news to sell us on staying. “It’s not too late,” the former generals, secretaries and ambassadors say. “More troops can hold the line. Victory is just around the corner.”'
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/opin ... teran.html
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:08 pm Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.
...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.
The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE
My father in law spent time over there around 8-10yrs ago as they were managing a power plant for DOD or whatever entity (presumably via GSA but don’t know for sure) in afghanistan. Are you suggesting if he were still there he should be left behind or not treated like a citizen of the US? A guy who’s sponsored multiple niece/nephews, took care of his mother and retarded adult sister after his father died, tutors young kids in math through a program and has funded all the stained glass at his church among other things.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:17 pmold salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:08 pm Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.
...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.
The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE
Any word on who/what exactly are these Americans? Greedy corporatists profiting from the now lost imperialist war or Christian missionaries trying to convert the "infidels" from their erroneous ways?
Why does it matter if they are Us citizens at risk in a foreign country that was just taken over by new leadership but force who’s antagonistic to anyone who looks like an American? If we shouldn’t have gotten into the war then we consequently by your own logic must get them all out safely. The question seems unnecessary.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:10 pm ^ Whether they stay or not is their business, not mine. Just asking who they are or what they represent.
Previously I had read there were Christian missionaries who came after the invasion but that some had left as their efforts were disapproved but I don't know who remained.
Crazy how he put them in to 1 of two classes....SMDH.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:31 pmMy father in law spent time over there around 8-10yrs ago as they were managing a power plant for DOD or whatever entity (presumably via GSA but don’t know for sure) in afghanistan. Are you suggesting if he were still there he should be left behind or not treated like a citizen of the US? A guy who’s sponsored multiple niece/nephews, took care of his mother and retarded adult sister after his father died, tutors young kids in math through a program and has funded all the stained glass at his church among other things.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:17 pmold salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:08 pm Based on Ned Price at today's State Dept briefing, it appears our US citizens are departing Kabul via military shuttle flights to Doha, Qatar AND Kuwait City, for further transfer to airline flights to the US.
...more return on investment from the large air bases we've maintained in the Gulf.
The French flights are evacuating through the air base we share in & with the UAE
Any word on who/what exactly are these Americans? Greedy corporatists profiting from the now lost imperialist war or Christian missionaries trying to convert the "infidels" from their erroneous ways?
If that’s the implication of your question then it’s way way out of line and isn’t a good look.
