Syracuse 2022

[nyjay]

I have three boys who play relatively serious lacrosse - 17, 15, 12. And maybe my experience is atypical, but irrespective of lacrosse, they all just watch a lot less sports that I did when I was their age (or even now frankly). A lot of my peers say the same thing about their kids. As we were different from our parents, kids are just different these days, largely because of the entertainment options they have. That's not to say Gait's and Petro's status as living legends won't help them with recruiting, it will, but I think it's very unlikely to be a deciding factor in many cases. I do think (unfortunately) that Cuse will recruit very well over the next couple of years, but that's primarily because of who I understand Gait and Petro are as people and coaches rather than who they were as players.

As for the hire in general, while it's easy to assume that the entire program is going to get back up with Duke, UMd, UVa, etc., it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I think there's a realistic chance this doesn't work. Gait's hire doesn't change the location, the weather, the amount of local talent or any other challenges that the program has faced recently. But we'll see, and if Cuse has some early success, that momentum could snowball.

[JeremyCuse]

I have three boys who play relatively serious lacrosse - 17, 15, 12. And maybe my experience is atypical, but irrespective of lacrosse, they all just watch a lot less sports that I did when I was their age (or even now frankly). A lot of my peers say the same thing about their kids. As we were different from our parents, kids are just different these days, largely because of the entertainment options they have. That's not to say Gait's and Petro's status as living legends won't help them with recruiting, it will, but I think it's very unlikely to be a deciding factor in many cases. I do think (unfortunately) that Cuse will recruit very well over the next couple of years, but that's primarily because of who I understand Gait and Petro are as people and coaches rather than who they were as players.

As for the hire in general, while it's easy to assume that the entire program is going to get back up with Duke, UMd, UVa, etc., it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I think there's a realistic chance this doesn't work. Gait's hire doesn't change the location, the weather, the amount of local talent or any other challenges that the program has faced recently. But we'll see, and if Cuse has some early success, that momentum could snowball.

Not to be a homer SU fan here but they did just beat the National Champion twice and save for this year when they lost by one goal had beat Duke like 4 straight times. Not saying their on the same level as the lack of tourney success sticks out big time but Gait isn't taking over at Canisius or something, SU is right there.

[a fan]

I have three boys who play relatively serious lacrosse - 17, 15, 12. And maybe my experience is atypical, but irrespective of lacrosse, they all just watch a lot less sports that I did when I was their age (or even now frankly). A lot of my peers say the same thing about their kids. As we were different from our parents, kids are just different these days, largely because of the entertainment options they have. That's not to say Gait's and Petro's status as living legends won't help them with recruiting, it will, but I think it's very unlikely to be a deciding factor in many cases. I do think (unfortunately) that Cuse will recruit very well over the next couple of years, but that's primarily because of who I understand Gait and Petro are as people and coaches rather than who they were as players.

Sure, but let's not just assume it's the same in Canada. I can only imagine what Gait's rolodex looks like.

As for the hire in general, while it's easy to assume that the entire program is going to get back up with Duke, UMd, UVa, etc., it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I think there's a realistic chance this doesn't work. Gait's hire doesn't change the location, the weather, the amount of local talent or any other challenges that the program has faced recently.

Entirely true. We're going to see if Desko's poor recruiting of late was the problem....or if Syracuse U was the problem in fairly short order. SU's tuition is awfully spendy for what you get in return, imho.

[nyjay]

I have three boys who play relatively serious lacrosse - 17, 15, 12. And maybe my experience is atypical, but irrespective of lacrosse, they all just watch a lot less sports that I did when I was their age (or even now frankly). A lot of my peers say the same thing about their kids. As we were different from our parents, kids are just different these days, largely because of the entertainment options they have. That's not to say Gait's and Petro's status as living legends won't help them with recruiting, it will, but I think it's very unlikely to be a deciding factor in many cases. I do think (unfortunately) that Cuse will recruit very well over the next couple of years, but that's primarily because of who I understand Gait and Petro are as people and coaches rather than who they were as players.

As for the hire in general, while it's easy to assume that the entire program is going to get back up with Duke, UMd, UVa, etc., it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I think there's a realistic chance this doesn't work. Gait's hire doesn't change the location, the weather, the amount of local talent or any other challenges that the program has faced recently. But we'll see, and if Cuse has some early success, that momentum could snowball.

Not to be a homer SU fan here but they did just beat the National Champion twice and save for this year when they lost by one goal had beat Duke like 4 straight times. Not saying their on the same level as the lack of tourney success sticks out big time but Gait isn't taking over at Canisius or something, SU is right there.

I guess, but if that were actually the case, wouldn't Desko be back? Trying to be objective (which is hard for me), I think the team has been consistently overrated for awhile, and I think that's led to disappointment among the fan base. This year's expectations were totally unrealistic. Losing in the quarters (i.e. a top 9-12 team), is a fair reflection of where I think the program is and has been for a bit. I don't doubt they'll stay in a similar spot. What I question is whether they get back to being a fairly regular participant in the final four, which is what I think success means at Cuse.

[JeremyCuse]

I have three boys who play relatively serious lacrosse - 17, 15, 12. And maybe my experience is atypical, but irrespective of lacrosse, they all just watch a lot less sports that I did when I was their age (or even now frankly). A lot of my peers say the same thing about their kids. As we were different from our parents, kids are just different these days, largely because of the entertainment options they have. That's not to say Gait's and Petro's status as living legends won't help them with recruiting, it will, but I think it's very unlikely to be a deciding factor in many cases. I do think (unfortunately) that Cuse will recruit very well over the next couple of years, but that's primarily because of who I understand Gait and Petro are as people and coaches rather than who they were as players.

As for the hire in general, while it's easy to assume that the entire program is going to get back up with Duke, UMd, UVa, etc., it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I think there's a realistic chance this doesn't work. Gait's hire doesn't change the location, the weather, the amount of local talent or any other challenges that the program has faced recently. But we'll see, and if Cuse has some early success, that momentum could snowball.

Not to be a homer SU fan here but they did just beat the National Champion twice and save for this year when they lost by one goal had beat Duke like 4 straight times. Not saying their on the same level as the lack of tourney success sticks out big time but Gait isn't taking over at Canisius or something, SU is right there.

I guess, but if that were actually the case, wouldn't Desko be back? Trying to be objective (which is hard for me), I think the team has been consistently overrated for awhile, and I think that's led to disappointment among the fan base. This year's expectations were totally unrealistic. Losing in the quarters (i.e. a top 9-12 team), is a fair reflection of where I think the program is and has been for a bit. I don't doubt they'll stay in a similar spot. What I question is whether they get back to being a fairly regular participant in the final four, which is what I think success means at Cuse.

Have to disagree on being consistently overrated, outside of this past season there really hasn't been much in the way of expectations or SU picked to make a deep run since probably 2015. The main reason Desko was forced out was because of the lack of post-season success and the recent slip in regular season play. Even over the last few years SU has still been winning games against the rest of the ACC, Hopkins, Cornell, Albany etc. Problem is its also lost to Colgate, gotten blown out in multiple games in a year and more importantly hasn't won a quarter final game since 2013, that is the dagger. Overall the SU program is still in pretty good shape compared to 90% of the rest of D1 but the lack of tourney success finally caught up with Desko.

[DMac]

It's official. What a duo, watched these two play against each other a couple of times, what a match up!
Both of these guys have a lot of respect for one another, think this is going to be very interesting.
Welcome to Cuse, Dave, glad to have you.
https://cuse.com/news/2021/6/15/mens-la ... coach.aspx

[LaxPundit07]

A lot of people think they are oil and water. I happen to think it’s going to be an incredible pair. Gary’s approach and persona is perfect for the offense. And Dave brings the intensity and toughness you want on that end. I think he can also offer the right kind of support Gary may need jumping back into the men’s game. Dave clearly wants to get his own program again. In the mean time, if he is a head coach again in 2-3 years, that means this experiment (GG and Petro) likely was a success.

[DMac]

I agree.

[sholokov2]

It's official. What a duo, watched these two play against each other a couple of times, what a match up!
Both of these guys have a lot of respect for one another, think this is going to be very interesting.
Welcome to Cuse, Dave, glad to have you.
https://cuse.com/news/2021/6/15/mens-la ... coach.aspx

Also witnessed a JHU game featuring Petro and Kessinich (as good a goalie as any) I think against Princeton. Princeton's obvious strategy included never taking the ball down Petro's side of the field, because when they tried, Petro would create a massive yard sale and take the ball down the field, either scoring himself or assisting. Do you remember who won the head to heads between he and GG? Petro was an athletic monster, a scary dude.

[DMac]

In '88 Cuse beat Hop 19-7, game was played at Homewood, didn't see that one.
The two opened up with each other again in '89, again at Homewood, went to that one. I had never see anyone contain Gary the way Petro did that day. He was just incredible and every bit the D man he was said to be. A very intense and talented D man who was just a beast. I figured it was just a matter of time before Gary started doing Gary things as there's no way anyone is going to keep him under control for sixty minutes. I was wrong about that, Hop won that one 14-13...pretty unbelievable considering that '88 team had gone undefeated. The two met again in College Park for all the marbles that year, went to that one too. This is the one some have claimed was the greatest game ever played (not so...a very good one, yes) but it was no different than their first meeting except Cuse squeaked by Hop 13-12 that day. A combined 26-26 tie for the two games. Petro absolutely contained Gary that day too, was unbelievable. I think Gary scored one that day, can't remember what he did in their first meeting but it would be considered far from his usual performances. Petro was crazy good (so was Gary).
Damn good to hear from you, been a while.

[Matnum PI]

similar story at the World Games. Petro walked away with the MVP trophy (I believe).

[45wewantmore]

similar story at the World Games. Petro walked away with the MVP trophy (I believe).

1990 featured Paul & Gary vs Steve Mitchell & Dave Pietramala
Canada vs USA
Syracuse vs Johns Hopkins
Box vs Field

[45wewantmore]

I agree.

+1

[Kikin]

I believe everyone is overstating how kids view the coaches past accolades as a huge factor in recruiting young men in the world as it is currently. Many of todays best coaches do not impressive resumes as players but are excellent recruiters and coaches. Recruiting is a larger function of the head coaches and recruiting coaches personality, team culture and then campus/university.

[DMac]

I believe you're 100% right about that. Pretty sure this discussion started out as Gary's going to have a hard time recruiting because today's young laxers don't know who he is and never saw him play. The never saw him play part is just ridiculous, how many D1 laxers saw their coaches play and chose that school because of that? While some here claim that none of the kids they're coaching/are around know who Gait is, I'll tell you my son down in Texas laughed at that when I told him and said all the kids down here sure as hell know who he is. Frankly, I'd take the no one knowing who he is with a grain of salt.
Agree with the likability/personality factor being a very big part of recruiting. Don't know how many of you have had the opportunity to be around Gary and get to know him a little bit but I can tell you the likability factor is pretty high with him. He's pretty laid back, quick to smile, and very easy to talk to. Then enter what he accomplished as a player and coach and that young recruit is going to know who he is. Bring that kid to a game in the Dome now (the kid will probably recognize Gary as the guy in the picture on the wall doing the Air Gait at that point) and have him experience that atmosphere while looking at the eleven national championship banners hanging from rafters. I don't think Gary is going to have a whole lot of trouble with recruiting. While there's a lot of competition out there, Cuse is still a mighty attractive place to come and play. While kids might decide to go elsewhere, it's not going to be because they don't know who Gary and Dave are or never saw them play. Gary's been a mighty successful recruiter on the wlax side and I don't see a reason in the world why he won't be the same on the mlax side. This whole discussion of him having trouble with the recruiting part of the job is ridiculous, IMO. It's still Cuse lacrosse, it's far from dead and has been given a real jolt and new look, pretty hard for me to believe a young laxer isn't going to be able to get excited about that even if they never saw Gary and Dave play. JMHO.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I believe you're 100% right about that. Pretty sure this discussion started out as Gary's going to have a hard time recruiting because today's young laxers don't know who he is and never saw him play. The never saw him play part is just ridiculous, how many D1 laxers saw their coaches play and chose that school because of that? While some here claim that none of the kids they're coaching/are around know who Gait is, I'll tell you my son down in Texas laughed at that when I told him and said all the kids down here sure as hell know who he is. Frankly, I'd take the no one knowing who he is with a grain of salt.
Agree with the likability/personality factor being a very big part of recruiting. Don't know how many of you have had the opportunity to be around Gary and get to know him a little bit but I can tell you the likability factor is pretty high with him. He's pretty laid back, quick to smile, and very easy to talk to. Then enter what he accomplished as a player and coach and that young recruit is going to know who he is. Bring that kid to a game in the Dome now (the kid will probably recognize Gary as the guy in the picture on the wall doing the Air Gait at that point) and have him experience that atmosphere while looking at the eleven national championship banners hanging from rafters. I don't think Gary is going to have a whole lot of trouble with recruiting. While there's a lot of competition out there, Cuse is still a mighty attractive place to come and play. While kids might decide to go elsewhere, it's not going to be because they don't know who Gary and Dave are or never saw them play. Gary's been a mighty successful recruiter on the wlax side and I don't see a reason in the world why he won't be the same on the mlax side. This whole discussion of him having trouble with the recruiting part of the job is ridiculous, IMO. It's still Cuse lacrosse, it's far from dead and has been given a real jolt and new look, pretty hard for me to believe a young laxer isn't going to be able to get excited about that even if they never saw Gary and Dave play. JMHO.

Nobody said Gary will have a hard time recruiting. It was he is more popular with parents (old folks like us) than current players. He will recruit just fine however, as you pointed out. Syracuse has always recruited well. I don’t expect it to change….I would say cutting down the roster a few spots may help. Many parents don’t want to pay for an extra year of playing as their freshman redshirts.

[Farfromgeneva]

If you guys pick up Jason Knox I’m literally going to firebomb the dome...

[DocBarrister]

If you guys pick up Jason Knox I’m literally going to firebomb the dome...

I reported your post to the local FBI office on South Clinton Street.

The guy at the desk responded, “Is that a threat or a promise?”

Apparently, the local G-men are no fans of the Dome.

DocBarrister

[jhu06]

Petro had top 5 and usually top 3 and sometimes top 1 classes annually over his tenure at Hopkins which is a much more difficult place to recruit students to and get them to maintain success on and off the field. I don't know your program well enough but I don't think recruiting will be an issue.

[Gatsby]

Petro had top 5 and usually top 3 and sometimes top 1 classes annually over his tenure at Hopkins which is a much more difficult place to recruit students to and get them to maintain success on and off the field. I don't know your program well enough but I don't think recruiting will be an issue.

Hmm, now that's an interesting question.

For roughly the same tuition and lacrosse prominence, JHU is a better academic school. Although Baltimore gets dumped on, I'd say it has a preferable location and Maryland has a more temperate climate than upstate NY.

Syracuse has a little more success on the field recently, may have a perceived funner way of playing, and may have an edge in student perception of a fun school and has more big-time sports teams.

I wouldn't say Hopkins is a much more difficult place to recruit students to than Syracuse.