Pro N Cons Another Season Senior Eligibilty

[xxxxxxx]

I agree that it will be a much smaller number than many here see, like 2 or 3 per team. I spoke to a D1 Coach today who said he wants two of his Seniors back and two others he thinks would want to come back but he wouldn’t have any money for them. So we are talking about a possible four total. It will be interesting and I think this is far from a done deal. The NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the history of this country. I expect them to do what ever benefits them the most and avoids litigation. With the staggering losses they are taking in basketball revenue right now, who knows what they will do.

[tech37]

Lets not forget about the mental state of these guys.

They've been preparing to graduate and move into the workforce, grad school, etc. Their near-term futures for the most part, have been decided. I would think most guys have that lined up. They love playing, but mentally, they've prepared themselves for the end of their playing days, and have been looking forward to the next chapter of their lives.

I'm really not that sure how many guys want an extra year. Are they really going to want to delay the next chapter of their life for another year of play? Certainly, some will, but I have to think most won't. If you are one of the superstar players...what are we talking about here, maybe a dozen guys? You MIGHT want to stay, and the stars would have to align. You might also have an awesome job waiting for you that you worked your tail off for in the classroom to get. The next tier of senior players down, although excellent players, may have a similar job situation lined up, and they aren't quite the superstar player. They're moving on.

Right now, these guys are emotional. Having a chance to play again sounds like a gift. But when reality hits, they may want to move on.

And we haven't even talked about the money yet. You aren't just potentially paying, you are giving up earnings. Its certainly not as easy a decision as many on here think. Its very complex.

There's also coming and going with your class. Reuniting with your high school friends after college in the workplace...growing up. They are being robbed right now, I get it. But I think when the dust settles, you'll see fewer guys take this option than you now think.

That's why giving the seniors the option is important...each will view this differently based on their specific situation. My guess is many will move on but there will be others who say, I have just one more year to play lacrosse but my whole work-life ahead of me. I want to play.

Decisions by seniors will also be effected by their chance to play in the Tournament. What is their team's chance of winning it all? For instance, a senior at Cornell my view things quite differently than a senior at Furman (no offense).

Other athletically-gifted seniors will opt-out and go to work because they have the opportunity to go pro and continue playing.

And then of course, some simply won't be able to afford an additional year unless something is worked out financially with their school.

[bauer4429]

Maybe the NCAA should just give them back what they lost - the actual games and tournaments they missed. Once we are through this carve out a few condensed weeks to play the remaining 2020 schedule. Perhaps it could be this summer or next after the regular season ends. Just add more lax for one month. As a college lax lover I would love more lax! The current seniors, juniors, sophomores, and freshman could all get what they missed with no impact to other recruited classes.

[RedIvy]

Lets not forget about the mental state of these guys.

They've been preparing to graduate and move into the workforce, grad school, etc. Their near-term futures for the most part, have been decided. I would think most guys have that lined up. They love playing, but mentally, they've prepared themselves for the end of their playing days, and have been looking forward to the next chapter of their lives.

I'm really not that sure how many guys want an extra year. Are they really going to want to delay the next chapter of their life for another year of play? Certainly, some will, but I have to think most won't. If you are one of the superstar players...what are we talking about here, maybe a dozen guys? You MIGHT want to stay, and the stars would have to align. You might also have an awesome job waiting for you that you worked your tail off for in the classroom to get. The next tier of senior players down, although excellent players, may have a similar job situation lined up, and they aren't quite the superstar player. They're moving on.

Right now, these guys are emotional. Having a chance to play again sounds like a gift. But when reality hits, they may want to move on.

And we haven't even talked about the money yet. You aren't just potentially paying, you are giving up earnings. Its certainly not as easy a decision as many on here think. Its very complex.

There's also coming and going with your class. Reuniting with your high school friends after college in the workplace...growing up. They are being robbed right now, I get it. But I think when the dust settles, you'll see fewer guys take this option than you now think.

Agreed but give them the choice.

[RedIvy]

the choice should be which solution has the fewest negatives and IMO the one chosen by the NCAA was right, 5th year for all current players.

This is not what the NCAA has chosen. They have just said they think it’s appropriate to grant “eligibility relief” with details on what that means to come. It won’t be a full season of eligibility for someone who has played in about a 3rd or more of their team’s scheduled regular season games this season already. Nor should it. Anyone considering sticking around needs to hear what all of this means before making any decision.

I’m not aware of partial 5th year extensions (have not researched it though) also not sure how one would implement something like that. In the Duke lacrosse case I believe they were at a similar point in the season.

[hofpride]

looks like the NCAA is going to give seniors another year of eligibility per newsday- details to be worked out -thats fantastic

[QuakerSouth]

Sure, give them the choice. Always in favor of the student-athlete here. I just think its gonna be a lot less guys than conventional wisdom thinks.

[youthathletics]

All classes are equally impacted ...

It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes.

?

Not just the seniors were impacted by the season cancellations. Freshman, Sophomores, and Juniors all lost 2/3's of the season.

The players that have the highest chance of staying a 5th year are the starters in their 4th year. That is probably 4-5, but it needs to make sense from a school standpoint too (masters, graduate work, etc.). This will slow younger players from getting on the field a little. And slow down recruiting to a degree, but not a significant amount.

Every college and HS player in the country lost a season. Giving current college players an additional year of eligibility rights the "wrong" they've suffered at the expense of the kids in HS.

Help me understand what you mean by the part in red? IMO, there has been no wrong-doing by anyone. This is one of the most prophetic experiences they will likely experience in their lives, and one they did not learn in a classroom. As in true fashion these days, being granted another year just feeds that entitlement mentality that we as parents have participated in.

As an aside: When I talked to my son after learning what happened, also a D1 player, his first words to me on the phone were "this sucks, but it is a unique bond that only this team will share"... optimism and being thankful in the trenches of discomfort can be quite rewarding.

[steel_hop]

looks like the NCAA is going to give seniors another year of eligibility per newsday- details to be worked out -thats fantastic

Well not just seniors but everyone.

[thetruth]

the choice should be which solution has the fewest negatives and IMO the one chosen by the NCAA was right, 5th year for all current players.

This is not what the NCAA has chosen. They have just said they think it’s appropriate to grant “eligibility relief” with details on what that means to come. It won’t be a full season of eligibility for someone who has played in about a 3rd or more of their team’s scheduled regular season games this season already. Nor should it. Anyone considering sticking around needs to hear what all of this means before making any decision.

I’m not aware of partial 5th year extensions (have not researched it though) also not sure how one would implement something like that. In the Duke lacrosse case I believe they were at a similar point in the season.

There are thousands of examples where the NCAA has made athletes sit out games for eligibility reasons. The NCAA can do whatever it wants, they make the rules and precedent means nothing. Also, there is no precedent for this. The Duke case was a completely different situation where athletes were falsely accused and their reputations were tarnished because everyone jumped to conclusions including Duke, the ACC and the NCAA. The NCAA, Duke and the ACC needed to right that wrong or they would have lost millions in court.

This is an unprecedented situation. We are all making huge and costly sacrifices. No one outside of college athletics is getting a "do over" for what is going on now and the lost income and work they are incurring. We are all sucking it up, making sacrifices, taking our hits and committed to the cause for the greater good of society. That's what I'm doing and I learned that lesson from athletics and take great satisfaction in the sacrifices I am making. So should these college and high school athletes without a need for anything more than that. There is no more important lesson in sports.

[NElaxtalent]

I do think an extra year should be granted, but we must consider all players too. My brother's son is a Junior. Next year would have most likely been the only year he would start. He gets a little time here and there. He also does not get a scholarship but has been told his senior year would be a substantial one. He was supposed to get one this past year but there were some red shirts and he was told it would come his senior year. This being said, he also can not afford another year of tuition and is already deeply in debt. I see all the celebrating for these seniors of which I am happy for them, but this also affects younger players and their dreams too.

Exactly the scenario I worry about since 95% of those are "in the shadows" (aka not household names). Thank you for sharing a real example.

[smoova]

All classes are equally impacted ...

It will slow down the playing time for freshman and will reduce some recruiting classes.

?

Not just the seniors were impacted by the season cancellations. Freshman, Sophomores, and Juniors all lost 2/3's of the season.

The players that have the highest chance of staying a 5th year are the starters in their 4th year. That is probably 4-5, but it needs to make sense from a school standpoint too (masters, graduate work, etc.). This will slow younger players from getting on the field a little. And slow down recruiting to a degree, but not a significant amount.

Every college and HS player in the country lost a season. Giving current college players an additional year of eligibility rights the "wrong" they've suffered at the expense of the kids in HS.

Help me understand what you mean by the part in red? IMO, there has been no wrong-doing by anyone. This is one of the most prophetic experiences they will likely experience in their lives, and one they did not learn in a classroom. As in true fashion these days, being granted another year just feeds that entitlement mentality that we as parents have participated in.

As an aside: When I talked to my son after learning what happened, also a D1 player, his first words to me on the phone were "this sucks, but it is a unique bond that only this team will share"... optimism and being thankful in the trenches of discomfort can be quite rewarding.

You and I are in complete agreement. The "wrong" I was referring to is being deprived of a season of play because of a force majeure. Granting an additional year of eligibility seeks to right that "wrong."

[Henpecked]

There is a ton of complexity to simply granting every athlete another year of eligibility. Many of you have already talked about the financial situation with limited scholarships or parents/students footing the bill for an additional year. You’ve also hit on the impact of incoming classes (2020hs grads). How fair is it to them to suddenly have four classes in front of them?

What about just completing this season in the fall? Start in late August, incoming frosh can practice but not play in games. Wrap up the season thanksgiving weekend in Texas or Florida. They can play the games on Sundays and Wednesdays so they don’t interfere with Football. They’re already playing fall ball. Crazy idea?

[NElaxtalent]

If everyone gets another year, it's going to DESTROY 2022 recruiting - the 21's already have their commitments, so when the 2022's head to college, there will be 4 years of players ahead of them, presumably with all the scholarship money (and roster spots, maybe?) accounted for. There will be virtually no money for the 2022 class and with limited spots, we may be looking at 50% or more less opportunity to even play in college and probably a much higher percentage of less scholarship money.

I initially thought you were whining and hyper-focused on your own son's situation (sorry lol) but in rethinking it, you are likely onto something. The 2021 class IS already largely committed. D1 program's cupboard's are ABSOLUTELY going to be more well-stocked than they expected. In addition, if they have a specific need, the transfer portal will be over-flowing with kids hoping to find a team with a need (& some $$$).

Well intended but, as always, be wary of unintended consequences

[laxfan22]

If everyone gets another year, it's going to DESTROY 2022 recruiting - the 21's already have their commitments, so when the 2022's head to college, there will be 4 years of players ahead of them, presumably with all the scholarship money (and roster spots, maybe?) accounted for. There will be virtually no money for the 2022 class and with limited spots, we may be looking at 50% or more less opportunity to even play in college and probably a much higher percentage of less scholarship money.

I initially thought you were whining and hyper-focused on your own son's situation (sorry lol) but in rethinking it, you are likely onto something. The 2021 class IS already largely committed. D1 program's cupboard's are ABSOLUTELY going to be more well-stocked than they expected. In addition, if they have a specific need, the transfer portal will be over-flowing with kids hoping to find a team with a need (& some $$$).

Well intended but, as always, be wary of unintended consequences

I mean, i only thought of it because it impacts my kid. But it is a real concern. Maybe give all seniors the option for another year (or a certain number) and allow individual kids to petition at the end of eligibility to explain why they should get another year - maybe the junior goalie who was going to start but was blocked gets it. Should a kid who has played mop up duty as a freshman get another year - he/she likely did not lose anything and he/she was basically a practice player for years one and two (which is fine) should not, because the cancellation did not truly impact playing time. I believe that would be the fairest situation - where all (or many) seniors get a fifth year and then very limited waivers where it can be shown to a reasonable degree of certainty that a pathway to playing was impacted significantly by the RETURN of a fifth year player.

[Cooter]

Sure, give them the choice. Always in favor of the student-athlete here. I just think its gonna be a lot less guys than conventional wisdom thinks.

The freshmen coming in and other players who won't advance up the depth chart are student-athletes too.

[thetruth]

SO MANY unintended consequences could occur with this NCAA decision so they need to be incredibly thoughtful with the final rule.
For what it's worth, I'd like a "do-over" for this spring too, but I'm not going to get one. That's life and I'm OK with it, and I feel great satisfaction for the sacrifices that I am making to help us defeat this pandemic. Athletics taught me that.
Man up, be selfless, help the team win, never look back and move on.

[socalref]

It will be interesting what happens when they finally put a policy/response into place. If the year is not counted, does a freshman who didn't play this year who would have returned as a red shirt in 2021 get to red shirt again if they don't play in the 2021 season? It's always rather interesting to see how the law of unintended consequences applies to things like this.

[stupefied]

College lacrosse is just that. Participants derive many life benefits throughout from the first day one steps on campus and participates. Only five to six regular season games were played but season preparation and participation occurred from late summer on through mid March. Those in their final year of eligibility missed out a final act but in my mind had 3 3/4 of their 4 years. NCAA over the years had tight cutoffs for season ending injuries that truly derailed . Sympathetic and understanding of other perspectives but exceptions will need to be applied to all grades to be fair and that will have negative ramifications especially to those who are not financially privileged. Acts of God happen, all is relative. However abbreviated 2020 season was , it was not devastating in the truest sense and not in the larger context, believe it was better for sport to move on than convolute

[stupefied]

If everyone gets another year, it's going to DESTROY 2022 recruiting - the 21's already have their commitments, so when the 2022's head to college, there will be 4 years of players ahead of them, presumably with all the scholarship money (and roster spots, maybe?) accounted for. There will be virtually no money for the 2022 class and with limited spots, we may be looking at 50% or more less opportunity to even play in college and probably a much higher percentage of less scholarship money.

I initially thought you were whining and hyper-focused on your own son's situation (sorry lol) but in rethinking it, you are likely onto something. The 2021 class IS already largely committed. D1 program's cupboard's are ABSOLUTELY going to be more well-stocked than they expected. In addition, if they have a specific need, the transfer portal will be over-flowing with kids hoping to find a team with a need (& some $$$).

Well intended but, as always, be wary of unintended consequences

I mean, i only thought of it because it impacts my kid. But it is a real concern. Maybe give all seniors the option for another year (or a certain number) and allow individual kids to petition at the end of eligibility to explain why they should get another year - maybe the junior goalie who was going to start but was blocked gets it. Should a kid who has played mop up duty as a freshman get another year - he/she likely did not lose anything and he/she was basically a practice player for years one and two (which is fine) should not, because the cancellation did not truly impact playing time. I believe that would be the fairest situation - where all (or many) seniors get a fifth year and then very limited waivers where it can be shown to a reasonable degree of certainty that a pathway to playing was impacted significantly by the RETURN of a fifth year player.

Too arbitrary. Either another year of eligibility for all or none for any. . Id personally would have voted for simply moving on because kids face greater adversity in life than having a season cut short. NCAA and sports in general did the right thing shutting down, be consequences for all but rather insignificant for college lax in comparison to others