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Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:25 pm
by holmes435
seacoaster wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:56 pm
I don't understand why folks seem to trot out the word "hysteria" for this subject matter. The issues raised by the President's behavior are serious, and no one on this board or elsewhere made them up. A member of the IC raised the issues apparently as a matter of conscience him/herself. It's not hysterical to raise the question of whether the President's interaction with this national leader was proper, or a proper use of the power -- the legal and practical authority -- of the Presidency. I'm not "hysterical;" I'm worried that the country has lost its moral way and compass, and that my President operates like a mob boss across borders.
It's a simple Ad Hominem attack to discredit the speaker. Similar to using "TDS", "snowflake", "triggered" and other terms to avoid talking about the actual subject being brought up.
Because they keep repeating it, many of Trump's supporters then believe that his critics are in fact hysterical instead of concerned with ethics and the rule of law. It's hard to have a normal discussion anymore because of it.
The Dem's and some progressives do it too (blanket "racism" and other accusations), but it isn't as pervasive.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:41 pm
by DocBarrister
holmes435 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:25 pm
seacoaster wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:56 pm
I don't understand why folks seem to trot out the word "hysteria" for this subject matter. The issues raised by the President's behavior are serious, and no one on this board or elsewhere made them up. A member of the IC raised the issues apparently as a matter of conscience him/herself. It's not hysterical to raise the question of whether the President's interaction with this national leader was proper, or a proper use of the power -- the legal and practical authority -- of the Presidency. I'm not "hysterical;" I'm worried that the country has lost its moral way and compass, and that my President operates like a mob boss across borders.
It's a simple Ad Hominem attack to discredit the speaker. Similar to using "TDS", "snowflake", "triggered" and other terms to avoid talking about the actual subject being brought up.
Because they keep repeating it, many of Trump's supporters then believe that his critics are in fact hysterical instead of concerned with ethics and the rule of law. It's hard to have a normal discussion anymore because of it.
The Dem's and some progressives do it too (blanket "racism" and other accusations), but it isn't as pervasive.
Agree with much of what you say, but do you doubt that the vast majority of George Wallace’s supporters were racists, whether they preferred to call themselves “states’ rights” advocates or more honestly acknowledged their belief in white supremacy?
Donald Trump’s supporters are no different. How can anyone support a Birther with a decades-long history of racist actions (housing discrimination, calling for the death of the innocent Central Park Five, describing Mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers, advocating a ban on Muslims) unless they themselves are racists?
Not all of Trump’s supporters are racists or bigots ...
... but the vast majority are.
As with supporting George “segregation forever” Wallace, it is almost impossible to support an obvious and overt racist like Donald Trump without sharing at least some of his racist views.
Sometimes the label fits. Some folks, like those Trump supporters who are indeed racist, deserve to be discredited. It’s a harsh judgment, but it’s a harsh judgment based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.
DocBarrister
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:06 am
by RedFromMI
Amen Doc
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:09 am
by seacoaster
Having trouble getting a response:
I'll ask it another way: is it OK for the President to use the power of the office to entreat a foreign head of state for assistance and for the purpose of getting politically-useful dirt on a domestic political rival? Yes or no.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:17 am
by tech37
I hope all the resistance warriors on here are proud of the performance by their boy Schiff. Compare that to the honorable gentleman in the hot seat.
Once again, keep it up RWs and Trump is a lock in 2020
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:23 am
by lagerhead
SC the answer is NO.
Edit to also state that is not limited to the President. The answer is NO and includes any politician or office.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:25 am
by RedFromMI
Even the American Conservative says an impeachment investigation is warranted to see how deep the "rot" goes...
https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... -of-power/
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:46 am
by CU88
seacoaster wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:09 am
Having trouble getting a response:
I'll ask it another way: is it OK for the President to use the power of the office to entreat a foreign head of state for assistance and for the purpose of getting politically-useful dirt on a domestic political rival? Yes or no.
NO
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:52 am
by seacoaster
Thanks; good article. Succinct and to the point. Pretty clear the American Conservative and the writer aren't trying to hang on to a seat in the Congress.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:28 am
by Peter Brown
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:41 pm
Not all of Trump’s supporters are racists or bigots ...
... but the vast majority are.
DocBarrister
It takes a village (right?), until you start banging the keyboard by yourself, then it's just who you really are.
50% of Americans are racist, says the keyboard warrior above. Seems high by about 99.99% to me. Then again, I tend to love most of my fellow countrymen not to mention the great country they are citizens of. I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me. See above post of division and hatred.
Not all of Hop supporters are entitled arrogant d-bags....
...but the vast majority are.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:54 am
by seacoaster
Statement from the Deep State:
Statement:
https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.com/no ... pdf#page=1
Excerpt:
"As national security professionals, many of us have long been concerned with President Trump’s actions and their implications for our safety and security. Some of us have spoken out, but many of us have eschewed politics throughout our careers and, as a result, have not weighed in publicly.
The revelations of recent days, however, demand a response. Specifically, all of us recognize the imperative of formal impeachment proceedings to ascertain additional facts and weigh the consequences of what we have learned and what may yet still emerge. We applaud those Members of Congress, including Speaker Pelosi, who have now started us down that necessary path. President Trump appears to have leveraged the authority and resources of the highest office in the land to invite additional foreign interference into our democratic processes. That would constitute an unconscionable abuse of power. It also would represent an effort to subordinate America’s national interests—and those of our closest allies and partners—to the President’s personal political interest.
Having worked across administrations of both parties to uphold and advance those national interests, we consider the President’s actions to be a profound national security concern. Our relations with the rest of the world and our policies on the global stage must be based solely on what is in the national interest. The introduction of any other considerations of the President debases our democracy, has the potential to make us more vulnerable to threats, and sends a message to leaders around the world that America’s foreign policy can be dangerously corrupted by catering to a single individual. If we fail to speak up—and act—now our foreign policy and national security will officially be on offer to those who can most effectively fulfill the President’s personal prerogatives."
Post story:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:51 am
by Typical Lax Dad
Saw Maguire yesterday. Once again the POTUS has put a good guy in a tough spot. I thought Maguire did the best he could answering questions. Of all the characters parades before Congress these past 12 months or so. He actually showed himself to be a quality individual. Nothing at all like Barr and Kavanaugh...(though not a politician, that VDH guy is another guy that was unimpressive in the flesh).
I wonder who’s idea it was to use the secret server? How many other calls were also hidden in this manner and what has the POTUS discussed with Vlad when nobody is in the room. Further investigation is warranted.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:53 am
by Andersen
Peter Brown wrote:
Seems high by about 99.99% to me.
Man oh man, you really need to get out more.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:54 am
by Typical Lax Dad
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:28 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:41 pm
Not all of Trump’s supporters are racists or bigots ...
... but the vast majority are.
DocBarrister
It takes a village (right?), until you start banging the keyboard by yourself, then it's just who you really are.
50% of Americans are racist, says the keyboard warrior above. Seems high by about 99.99% to me. Then again, I tend to love most of my fellow countrymen not to mention the great country they are citizens of. I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me. See above post of division and hatred.
Not all of Hop supporters are entitled arrogant d-bags....
...but the vast majority are.
Bye Felicia
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:28 am
by Brooklyn
Impeach the arrogant Trump!
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:46 am
by jhu72
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:28 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:41 pm
Not all of Trump’s supporters are racists or bigots ...
... but the vast majority are.
DocBarrister
It takes a village (right?), until you start banging the keyboard by yourself, then it's just who you really are.
50% of Americans are racist, says the keyboard warrior above. Seems high by about 99.99% to me. Then again, I tend to love most of my fellow countrymen not to mention the great country they are citizens of. I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me. See above post of division and hatred.
Not all of Hop supporters are entitled arrogant d-bags....
...but the vast majority are.
Not all Loyola supporters are mindless twits - but the vast majority are.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:55 am
by jhu72
seacoaster wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:52 am
Thanks; good article. Succinct and to the point. Pretty clear the American Conservative and the writer aren't trying to hang on to a seat in the Congress.
It is just the tip of the iceberg of melting support.
Scum bag Paul Ryan. A real profile in courage.
Gutless coward.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:57 am
by a fan
seacoaster wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:54 am
Statement from the Deep State:
Statement:
https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.com/no ... pdf#page=1
Excerpt:
"As national security professionals, many of us have long been concerned with President Trump’s actions and their implications for our safety and security. Some of us have spoken out, but many of us have eschewed politics throughout our careers and, as a result, have not weighed in publicly.
The revelations of recent days, however, demand a response. Specifically, all of us recognize the imperative of formal impeachment proceedings to ascertain additional facts and weigh the consequences of what we have learned and what may yet still emerge. We applaud those Members of Congress, including Speaker Pelosi, who have now started us down that necessary path. President Trump appears to have leveraged the authority and resources of the highest office in the land to invite additional foreign interference into our democratic processes. That would constitute an unconscionable abuse of power. It also would represent an effort to subordinate America’s national interests—and those of our closest allies and partners—to the President’s personal political interest.
Having worked across administrations of both parties to uphold and advance those national interests, we consider the President’s actions to be a profound national security concern. Our relations with the rest of the world and our policies on the global stage must be based solely on what is in the national interest. The introduction of any other considerations of the President debases our democracy, has the potential to make us more vulnerable to threats, and sends a message to leaders around the world that America’s foreign policy can be dangerously corrupted by catering to a single individual. If we fail to speak up—and act—now our foreign policy and national security will officially be on offer to those who can most effectively fulfill the President’s personal prerogatives."
Post story:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
Alright. I don't cast ad hominem attacks, but I will this time. If you read this, and look at that list of names, and keep playing the little game of "that's not illegal", you're an idiot, and I pity you.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:01 pm
by a fan
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:17 am
I hope all the resistance warriors on here are proud of the performance by their boy Schiff. Compare that to the honorable gentleman in the hot seat.
Once again, keep it up RWs and Trump is a lock in 2020
Schiff is an idiot.
The missus...a card carrying lib....was disgusted by Schiff. A child could tell that Maguire is an honorable man. There are polite ways of pointing out that he made some poor decisions.
Re: IMPEACHMENT (yes, it began with Mueller)
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:04 pm
by jhu72
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:51 am
Saw Maguire yesterday. Once again the POTUS has put a good guy in a tough spot. I thought Maguire did the best he could answering questions. Of all the characters parades before Congress these past 12 months or so. He actually showed himself to be a quality individual. Nothing at all like Barr and Kavanaugh...(though not a politician, that VDH guy is another guy that was unimpressive in the flesh).
I wonder who’s idea it was to use the secret server? How many other calls were also hidden in this manner and what has the POTUS discussed with Vlad when nobody is in the room. Further investigation is warranted.
Maguire doesn't deserve a medal for what he did, his decisions, but he is not a scum bag.